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Justice Department Briefing on Intel Reforms; Passport Fraud; Chinook Down

Aired June 29, 2005 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We want to take you live now to a briefing at the Justice Department. You are looking right now at a live picture of U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Also joining him is Robert Mueller, head of the FBI, talking about the intelligence commission and the White House wanting a number of changes to the embattled U.S. spy agencies.
Let's listen in.

ALBERTO GONZALES, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL (in progress): And we've made tremendous progress towards that goal, and I think one evidence of that -- concrete evidence of that -- is that we haven't had another attack since September 11th for a variety of reasons and because of the work of a number of people in our government, both at the federal, state and local levels.

The recommendations, in my judgment, of the WMD Commission reflect decisions to build upon the tremendous progress that has already occurred within main Justice and, in particular, the FBI, to counter the terrorism threat.

And so we look forward to working with Director Negroponte in the implementation of the reorganization. And we're confident that, at the end of the day, the department, which has already made tremendous strides today in protecting, America will be in an even better position to further protect American from additional terrorism.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Good afternoon, everyone. We, as we have throughout, have welcomed the input of the WMD Commission, worked with the WMD Commission. I welcomed its suggestions.

We see the recommendations of the WMD Commission, which have been adopted by the president, as being the next step in the development of the bureau's national security capabilities.

The WMD Commission, in its report, indicated that we've made substantial progress. They indicated areas in which the commission believed that we could enhance the progress we'd already made, and we agreed with the observations of the WMD Commission.

The development of the national security service is the next step in the evolution of our ability to protect the American public. It pulls together the Counterintelligence Division, the Counterterrorism Division, and the Directorate of Intelligence, enabling it to act together to develop intelligence and then to act on that intelligence, in consultation and with not only Department of Justice, but also the director of national intelligence.

We look forward to working with the DNI over the next 60 days to put in place additional steps that may be required to give full implementation to the development of this national security service.

Thank you.

GONZALES: Take any questions you might have.

QUESTION: Director Mueller, good afternoon.

MUELLER: Good afternoon.

QUESTION: Surely you know that there are still detractors who wonder what the appropriate role for the FBI in intelligence should be. And today there was a searing criticism op-ed by William Odom in The Washington Post, which I'll just read two sentences and ask you to respond.

"No one can turn a law enforcement agency into an effective intelligence agency. And the FBI's inability to reform itself continues to pile up. Intelligence personnel are still taking a back seat to crime fighters."

MUELLER: Needless to say, I adamantly disagree with the good general. I think since September 11th we've recognize the necessity to change. Objective observers would say we have made tremendous strides. We have developed an Intelligence Directorate that has over 300 agents now.

Since September 11th, we've put out more than 11,000 intelligence reports. We have over 200 reports officers spread throughout the country. Every one of our 56 field offices has a field intelligence group.

We've more than doubled the number of agents that are operating in the counterterrorism arena. We've augmented the number of agents in the counterintelligence arena.

I can go on in terms of changes that have occurred within the bureau over the last 3.5 years.

One of the benefits of establishing a national security service is the understanding that, at the heart of what we do is to protect the United States either from counterintelligence threats or, certainly, from another terrorist attack.

And we, as an organization, understand that our mission is not just to arrest people but, more particularly, to protect the American public from attacks. And to do that, we need to develop intelligence.

Setting up a national intelligence service allows us to focus specialities so that we're better able to do that -- and to do it, as I said before, in consultation and coordination with both the DNI and the attorney general. If you look at how far we've come since September 11th, I think you will see an organization that, on the one hand, retains its traditional capabilities of investigating and arresting and prosecuting, but has augmented its capabilities, since September 11th, to focus on the development of intelligence to protect the American public from another attack.

I might add that we are assisted in that by the breaking down the walls of the Patriot Act. We could not establish a national security division, as we are today -- or national security service -- as we are doing today, were not the Patriot Act out there breaking down the walls between intelligence and criminal investigation.

QUESTION: (inaudible)

MUELLER: If you look at the recommendations of the WMD Commission, the book is adamant that there should not be a separate domestic intelligence agency, that what the FBI brings is an investigative, intelligence-development capability that not only is effective, it brings to the field a discrete expertise, but also is steeped in the tradition of adherence to the Constitution and understanding the civil liberties under which we operate.

We are establishing a career path, starting October 1st, where every one of our new agents coming out of new agents class will spend three years at a small- or mid-sized office learning about the criminal justice system, learning about the parameters under which we gather information and intelligence within the United States, before they then go on and specialize in one of the intelligence specialities that is set up by this national intelligence service.

I think it's appropriate. The WMD Commission thought that was appropriate. I believe it's appropriate because I do believe that when we gather intelligence within the United States we have to assure that it is gathered pursuant to the strictures of the Constitution, the statutes and the attorney general guidelines.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

GONZALES: I think it is important for the American people to understand that when the Department of Justice utilizes the authorities given to us by the Congress we do so with the clear understanding and appreciation for the privacy rights and the civil liberties of every American.

You mentioned the library cards. The United States government has no interest in learning about the reading habits of ordinary Americans. We do have an authority given to us by the Congress to be utilized under the supervision of a federal judge to go after the reading habits of terrorists. And when absolutely necessary we're going to utilize that authority.

But it's very, very important to emphasize that as the department exercises these authorities, we're going to do so in a way that's consistent with our values and falls within the requirements of the law and the Constitution. QUESTION: General Gonzales, to follow on that, for the first time, I believe, in American history you're going to have criminal investigators with law enforcement powers who are going to ultimately answer to the top American intelligence official. Some law enforcement people warn that there's a slippery slope here, and they say Americans do not want a secret police.

How does this system that you've set up prevent, avoid any administration from setting up a secret police, having an intelligence official directing law enforcement?

GONZALES: Well, they're not going to be directing law enforcement. Every law enforcement official within the FBI is going to remain under the supervision and authority of the FBI director and ultimately the attorney general.

PHILLIPS: Live from the Justice Department, you've just been listening to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and also FBI chief, Robert Mueller, talking about changes you're going to see within America's intelligence systems, all the spy agencies, of course. A number of red flags were raised over intel lapses and shortcomings, as you know, after 9/11. In particular, concerns concerning WMD.

The White House now saying that they're going to green-light 70 of the 74 recommendations for reform stemming from this new commission that Mueller and Gonzales were a part of, the WMD Commission to reform intelligence. And it includes a brand-new national security office within the FBI.

Robert Mueller there talking about how agents -- it's going to start with agents that are coming in, new agents. They'll be trained differently as they go out into the separate -- or the various spy agencies, all, of course, with the hope to organize intelligence, intelligence operations, how they get intelligence, and, of course, react to threats, like what we saw on 9/11.

We'll continue to follow what they have to say, of course. And if anything new comes out of that news conference, we'll keep you posted.

A CNN "Security Watch" now. The Senate Homeland Security Committee has just wrapped up a hearing to learn more about possible security gaps in the nation's passport system, gaps that could allow terrorists and other criminals to fraudulently obtain U.S. passports.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve gathered the details for us in Washington -- Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, they learned a lot. Here's one example.

Donald Eugene Webb is on the FBI's most wanted list for murder and attempted burglary. But Webb could have gotten a passport and fled the country because the State Department, which issues passports, did not have his name, according to the General Accountability Office. Their new study finds the FBI does not give the State Department the names of individuals wanted by federal and state law enforcement. And when GAO ran the names of 67 fugitives against the State Department's lookout database, it found fewer than half were in the system.

Four years after 9/11, the State Department also is not getting information on U.S. citizens whose names are on the consolidated terrorist watch list. The GAO found that this lack of interagency information sharing is one factor hampering passport fraud detection efforts. It also says that imposters use -- use of legitimate birth certificates and other identification documents accounted for 69 percent of passport fraud detected in 2004.

Fraudulently-obtained passports allow criminals and terrorists to conceal their movements and activities. And one official says ferreting it out should be a top priority.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL L. JOHNSON, FMR. STATE DEPT. OFFICIAL: If one document is issued to someone in an assumed or bogus identity, and that person goes off and commits a murder or flees the country, that's one too many. So I think we should expend every resource possible to prevent this from happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: There are signs of progress. At a congressional hearing today it was announced that the FBI has now agreed to share fugitive names and the terrorist watch list with the State Department.

Kyra, back to you.

PHILLIPS: All right. Jeanne Meserve, live from Washington. Thank you.

And CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

Straight ahead, insurgent attack, roadside bombs, they're part of daily life in Iraq, but so is the rebuilding. Just ahead, we'll talk with a retired admiral making it his mission to get that country up and running.

Runaway wildfires. Firefighters trying to get the upper hand, but the weather's not helping. Details later on LIVE FROM.

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PHILLIPS: Well, rough terrain, awful weather, hostile forces and 17 U.S. service soldiers unaccounted for in the aftermath of a helicopter crash at 10,000 feet in the mountains of northeast Afghanistan. The Taliban say they're responsible, and U.S. officials say they may be true -- or that may be true, rather. CNN's Barbara Starr was in the region barely a week ago. She joins us now from the Pentagon with the latest on the lost Chinook -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, still no official accounting for the 17 service members on that were on that MH-57 Chinook Special Operations helicopter that went down yesterday. This is now the second night on the side of those very rugged mountains in eastern Afghanistan. We are told the wreckage lies at 10,000 feet, down a very steep slope.

The U.S. military that says helicopter -- you see the -- let me stop for a minute and explain this picture. Kyra, these are the very mountains where this happened.

We took these pictures in November 2003. CNN cameraman, producer Thomas Etsler (ph) and myself, we were traveling in the back of a Chinook helicopter like the one that crashed through these mountains of the Hindu Kush with General John Abizaid.

You see the extraordinarily rough terrain, snowcapped mountains year-round. This what forces, U.S. forces deal with in these mountains as they go after the insurgents.

The U.S. believes that the helicopter came under hostile fire, both rocket and small arms. They cannot say for sure that that's what made the helicopter crash, but it is what they believe happened.

Vice Chairman General Peter Pace of the Joint Chiefs of Staff spoke about it on Capitol Hill a little bit earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN NOMINEE: The tragedy of yesterday and what appears to be a shoot-down of one of our Special Operations helicopters that included some very, very special folks who were on a mission for this country, that's under investigation. We think it was a rocket-propelled grenade, but not 100 percent sure. And that will come out in time, as we're able to get to the scene and do the investigation required.

So our hearts go out to their -- to their families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: That last comment from General Pace, Kyra, perhaps a bit of precursor of what is to come if the Pentagon should then announce that all 17 have perished.

What the helicopter was doing at the time, it was one of four helicopters flying in the region, according to the U.S. military. These Special Operations forces were coming in, reinforcing troops already on the ground, already engaged in a firefight -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Barbara, just a personal note, if you don't mind, if I can ask you this, because I know you had a pretty hairy experience. But last hour we talked with a journalist talking about a lot of this insurgency, these individuals coming from Pakistan into Afghanistan. And it's such a hostile border.

You were there on the border, and I know you had a pretty powerful moment there, where you saw the reality of war first-hand.

STARR: The reality of life on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, Kyra, is exactly that. For people who may think the war is over in a Afghanistan, it most certainly is not.

U.S. troops are up there every day, operating with Afghan forces. And what is happening on that border we learned last week when we were there is rocket fire, small arms fire, grenade fire.

We were traveling. This right here is U.S. forces returning mortar fire after the base we were at was rocketed.

I was, again, traveling with our cameraman, producer Thomas Etsler (ph), who took all of these pictures. We were standing at this fire base, about 10,000 feet up in the mountains, about a mile and a half from the Pakistani border. And you suddenly hear those words "Incoming."

That is what was said. And boy, does that grab your attention, especially when you're traveling with members of the 82nd Airborne Division.

The words "Incoming" was said, somebody said "Rocket," somebody said, "Get into your helmet and vests now." That, of course, is what we did.

The CNN cameraman, of course, the first thing he did, he grabbed his camera. I put on my helmet and vest, Thomas (ph) grabbed his camera.

But it is a very interesting experience, because those pictures show what you see is U.S. troops immediately respond. They get their mortar fire up, they're able to locate where it comes from. And this is what they're dealing with every day in these very remote mountain regions -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And you saw it first-hand. Barbara Starr, live from the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks so much.

STARR: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, President Bush did acknowledge the tremendous challenges that both the Iraqi people and coalition forces face in Iraq during his prime-time address last night. But he also spoke of significant progress in Iraq.

To get a better understanding what kind of progress is taking shape in that country, I'm joined by retired Navy Rear Admiral Charles Kubic. He just returned from Iraq, where he's working for a private company now that's helping rebuild that country.

Chuck, it's great to see you.

REAR ADMIRAL CHARLES KUBIC, U.S. NAVY (RET.): Great to see you again as well, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, the last time we talked, obviously you were active military, and you were helping rebuild Iraq. Now you're working for a private company, and of course we won't mention the name or the exact areas where you are for security reasons. But I'm curious, first of all, just the difference you've seen working with the military and working with a private company.

KUBIC: Well, Kyra, it's interesting. It's a very similar mission.

When we were there previously, we were starting many of the projects that are now being finished by American construction contractors working hand in hand with Iraqis. These projects are much larger than could be undertaken by American military engineers. And thus, as contractors, we can bring the capability, we can bring the experience, we can bring the technical ability to do this work and to do it well and to do it very quickly.

PHILLIPS: And I remember you telling me -- and we've heard this from many generals and admirals within the military -- that until -- U.S. troops cannot leave until the Iraqi police and the Iraqi military are able to take over. And you actually brought some pictures back of some bases you're building for the police and the military.

Tell me how that's going. And how's that impacting morale?

KUBIC: Well, actually, Kyra, it's going very well. And you're absolutely right. The work that needs to be done to be able to properly train and employee the Iraqi military has a lot to do with construction.

We're not only building the training facilities, we're building bases that are properly positioned so that these forces can be deployed. And so in many senses, the construction is on the critical path to deploying the Iraqi military and, of course, to bringing our military home.

PHILLIPS: And tell me about the water treatment plants, the sewage plants, you know, the things important for just a clean, healthy life for the Iraqis.

KUBIC: Well, Kyra, I think you showed some pictures there of bases that have built very, very quickly, and pictures of the other supporting utilities for those bases. In fact, one large base was started in November. It was just a bare piece of desert. And by March, April time frame, we had buildings up, we had troops being trained, and we had troops actually graduating.

But a part of this is to do it right, and to do it with proper fresh water, proper sanitary facilities. In one case, we have a base where we've taken water from the Tigress River, we've put it through a plant that was built by Iraqi workers to purify the water, distributed it throughout the base, picked it up, cleaned it as sewage and actually pumped it both back into the river and to use for irrigation.

So, again, we're not only helping them bring their military to bear and to train them, but we're also helping them do it in a environmentally safe way and to bring a higher quality of life to those troops. And as we know from our own troops, a high quality of life breeds good order and discipline and good troop morale.

PHILLIPS: And I'm curious about security. Do you feel safer now or do you think you felt safer when you were an admiral in the military?

KUBIC: Well, it's a different kind of safe, Kyra. We obviously operate much differently. But I think people would be surprised to know how many former military people are both doing construction and doing security are over in Iraq.

And they -- they also are doing a very heroic job and very inspiring, because we do have our own private security. We do this in a different way. And even some of my former CB troops and others are over there now working with us. And a lot of their effort is going unheralded. But I think when the story of the reconstruction of Iraq is written, we'll see it's the integration of security forces, construction forces and operating in close coordination with the military forces that's producing the results.

PHILLIPS: And Chuck, we've got to wrap, but I've got to ask you this, because now you're out of the military, you don't have to give the party line. I can ask you as a civilian, is this going to work?

KUBIC: Well, I think it will, Kyra, if we don't, A, lose faith, and B, we continue the flow of the money that's been appropriated for this work. Because we have a lot of capability in place, a lot of construction under way, and a lot of Iraqis now depending upon us for their -- for their daily living.

If we stay the course, if we continue to support this both from our own -- our own spirit and with our own financing, I think it's going to work just fine. It will take a while. It's not something that happens quickly.

Again, some of these bases are being built very, very fast. But it will take us a while before we get them all done. And the important thing is just not lose faith.

PHILLIPS: Chuck Kubic. I am continually inspired by you and admire your passion. I look forward to talking to you when you get back from Baghdad. I know you leave again next week. We wish you the best of luck.

KUBIC: Well, thanks a lot, Kyra. Take care. Bye-bye.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Chuck.

Well, a report that the government did not want you to see has gone public now. Just ahead, America's milk supply and the threat of terror. SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. Some motorists might be inclined to say "tanks a lot." I'll tell you about some resort towns offering free gas to lure more terrorists traveling by car.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

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