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Former Hostages Say New Iranian President Was Their Captor; Murder Suspect's Confession May Not Be Heard by Jury

Aired June 30, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON SHARER, FORMER HOSTAGE IN IRAN: When you're placed in a life-threatening situation of that nature, you just -- you remember those things.

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KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Some former American hostages say Iran's new president was one of their captors.

Searching for Natalee Holloway. What are volunteers finding in Aruba? We're going to talk with a searcher live.

Is America ready for the next flu pandemic? It's the big question on Capitol Hill today. We'll talk with an expert.

From the CNN center in Atlanta, hello everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

Ph.D., mayor of Tehran, president-elect of Iran, one-time holder of American hostages? The man on the left is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. In 1979, the year the U.S. embassy was taken over by Islamic radicals. The man on the right is one of those radicals. He may or may not be Ahmadinejad.

Days ago, he won the country's presidency as an ultraconservative in elections that the Bush administration says were rigged. A quarter century earlier, as almost anyone alive at the time remembers, 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days. Today, at least five of those people say the president-elect was there.

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SHARER: As soon as I saw the face it rang a lot of bells to me. And it was a recent picture. But he still looked like a man -- take 20 years off of him, he was there. He was there in the background, more like an adviser.

And one other incident, he just called Colonel Scott and myself pigs and dogs and we deserved to be locked up forever. When you're placed in a life-threatening situation of that nature, you just -- you remember those things.

WILLIAM DAUGHERTY, FORMER HOSTAGE IN IRAN: Ahmadinejad's own personal website listed him as one of the organizers of the embassy takeover. And it's a little hard, I think, for his press secretary now to say he wasn't involved, when, by own words, perhaps, he acknowledged his presence.

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PHILLIPS: Now, the president-elect's bio does include membership, in his college days, in the so-called Office for Strengthening Unity, the group that planned and carried out the embassy siege. But other members say he not only did not take part in the violence or the hostage taking; he was actively against it.

We should also point out that some other former hostages didn't recognize Ahmadinejad at all.

With all this in mind, we'll turn to CNN's Andrea Koppel at the State Department. Andrea, definitely a lot of people talking about this today.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they are, and finally, the State Department is talking about it, spokesman Sean McCormack just answering questions here at the State Department.

Earlier, the White House had said that they were taking these allegations seriously, and they were looking into it. Sean McCormack just moments ago saying that this is something the United States can never forget; that was, the taking of 52 American hostages.

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SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: The Iranian government, with respect to this question, has an obligation to speak definitively concerning these questions that have been raised -- raised in public by these stories.

And one final point on this is that this is also not a matter just for the United States. This -- what is at stake here are questions about the ability of diplomats around the world, under the cover of recognized international treaties and conventions, to freely do their work, while posted abroad.

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KOPPEL: So who is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? He was elected mayor of Tehran -- that's Iran's capital -- two years ago in May of 2003. He's highly educated. I'm told he's known as a terrific student, holds a Ph.D. in traffic and transport, which is basically logistics, civil engineering.

He's a former member of the Revolutionary Guard. And he's only about 49 years old, born in 1956, the son of a blacksmith, which is considered in Tehran to be a fairly lower middle class family.

Now, in his last job, as I mentioned, he was mayor of Tehran. But he started his political career back in the 1970s. As a young student, he joined an ultraconservative faction of a radical student group. This was created out of the 1979 Islamic Revolution. And that group helped to stage the capture of the U.S. embassy.

But several members of that group are denying to CNN that Ahmadinejad was among those who actually went and took hostages. And in addition, Ahmadinejad's -- one person close to him has told wire services, including the Associated Press, they absolutely deny this.

Now why is this significant? Because Ahmadinejad is an ultraconservative. If he had been one of the hostage-taker, analysts I've spoken with, Kyra, say that this would be a badge of honor. This would not have been something that he would have been hiding from.

In fact, a number of the former students who were involved in the revolution there have become reformers. They're in prominent positions of power within the Iranian society, everything from newspaper editors, powerful businessmen. They were even members of the former Iranian -- or soon to be former Iranian president's cabinet. So this is not something that he would have hidden. And it certainly does raise questions.

In addition, I should point out that the photograph of Ahmadinejad, or the man believed to be him, came to CNN via a known opposition group, the MEK, which is considered a terrorist group by the U.S. government -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Andrea Koppel, thank you so much.

Well, a retired U.S. Army general who had a hand in attempts to rescue the captive Americans says if those attempted had succeeded, Ahmadinejad wouldn't be around today.

David Grange was an Army Ranger then. Today, he's a military analyst for CNN. I spoke with the retired general last hour.

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GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: His background, from the reports, is that he was involved in a lot of hard-line political and military occupations in the past, both as a student and as an adult.

He did a covert operation, we believe, in Iraq, during the Iraq/Iranian war, maybe before, maybe a little bit after. He's been involved with terrorists, assassinations, and now, when you have a guy like this, that's going to be the head of the country of Iran, that -- that puts forth a dangerous situation for us.

PHILLIPS: So of course hostages are coming forward now and saying this is the man; he was one of the captors. And you were involved in this operation. I mean, you were getting ready to come in and extract those hostages from the embassy. But as we know, unfortunately, that mission fail before you could even get in there.

But what do you remember about how dangerous these captors were? How violent they were?

GRANGE: Well, they are dangerous lot. They're tied to extreme measures like the militant arm of the Hezbollah terrorist organization. And the planning for the operation was well done. Quality armed forces from our side, to take it down if it would have went forward. The ironic thing is, he may not be around today if that mission would have been successful.

PHILLIPS: Interesting point. Now, looking forward, to the future of Iran, the future of U.S./Iranian relations, if all this pans out to be true and he is as violent as intelligence is indicating -- and even these former hostages, and even what you know -- what does it mean for the future?

GRANGE: I think it's a dangerous road ahead. I mean, you combine a guy like this with -- in a leadership role of the nation of Iran, with a nuclear program, with sponsors of terrorism, it's a dangerous combination. And I think that we're going to probably have to deal with him in the future.

PHILLIPS: How does someone like this get into the position? How does he become president?

GRANGE: You know, I think it may have been preordained, or at least -- you know, along with maybe 12 other hard-liners. I mean, they know the type of person that they want to -- to head up their country. Since it's supported by a few hard-line, fanatical people that control the rest of the population.

I mean, it's not really a true democratic governance of any sort of -- or possibly fair elections. It's probably preordained. And they got the guy they need to deal with the United States and their viewpoint and other situations on their borders, whether it be in Afghanistan or Iraq or elsewhere. So I think they knew who they were getting.

PHILLIPS: Final thought, as a retired general of the Army, Special Forces operations background, does this -- does this worry you?

GRANGE: It worries me because, you know, possibility of conflict of Iran is always looming on the future, and this just adds to the equation that there's a strong possibility that some type of conflict, on some level, will happen with Iran in the future.

PHILLIPS: General David Grange, thanks for your time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Homeland security, transportation safety, fiscal irresponsibility. That's the impression from a government audit of more than $741 million spent by the TSA to hire 60,000 airport screeners post-September 11.

Well, "The Washington Post" says almost half that money, more than $300 million, was spent in ways that you may consider excessive, to say the least. For instance, 500 bucks for a single phone call.

How about $1,100 for 20 gallons of coffee? Fifteen hundred dollars went to rent extension cords. And $8,000 was spent on elevator operators.

And $5.4 million was paid an executive of an event planning company that folded after its government contract expired.

"The Post" says the audit was complete last year and still has not been officially released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, a blunder in the case of the man accused of kidnapping and killing Jessica Lunsford. Now, his alleged confession may never be heard by a jury.

Later on LIVE FROM, a family wanting answers, suspects in custody. How are Aruban police handling the Natalee Holloway investigation? We're in depth.

Also ahead, a police department trimming the fat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They come back to their home, open the refrigerator, and eat everything.

PHILLIPS: Cops on a mission to prove they're not pigs.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You saw the front of that pickup truck burning. That's what you saw?

EARL MOHLIS, WIFE DIED IN FIRE: You bet you. She was burning.

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PHILLIPS: A follow up to our story about a small part in as many as 16 million vehicles that could start a fire, even when the vehicle is turned off. Later from LIVE -- later on LIVE FROM, rather, investigative correspondent Drew Griffin reports one of those vehicles may have started a fire that took the life of an Iowa grandmother.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN.

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PHILLIPS: Developments today in the case against a man alleged to have kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a 9-year-old Florida girl. John Couey told police he committed those crimes against Jessica Lunsford, but we're told it's a confession a jury may never hear.

CNN's Susan Candiotti is in Miami.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An alleged confession from a man who, in chilling detail, describes how he buried alive Jessica Lunsford might never be heard by a jury. The potential problem? These words from John Couey.

JOHN COUEY, MURDER SUSPECT: I want a lawyer, you know.

CANDIOTTI: Not just once but again Couey says...

COUEY: I just want to talk to a lawyer.

CANDIOTTI: At least seven times during questioning, Couey's voice recorded by investigators, the tapes released by the court Wednesday, Couey asked for an attorney.

COUEY: I want a lawyer here present. I want to talk to a lawyer because I mean -- if people trying to accuse me of something I didn't do. I didn't do it. I ain't, you know.

CANDIOTTI: The day before, police say John Couey admitted he kidnapped, raped and murdered 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford, he was interviewed by Citrus County, Florida, detectives.

According to that interview, taped for evidence, he denied knowing anything about Jessica. In Couey's words, "I swear to God, I had -- I mean, I don't know where she is, period."

But when investigators suggested a lie detector test, Couey asked for an attorney. In his words, "I want to talk to a lawyer first."

Couey's public defender isn't talking publicly. But the suspect's request, say other criminal defense lawyers, should have stopped questioning immediately.

BRUCE FLEISHER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The judge has to look at the totality of the circumstances to make sure that everything is freely and voluntarily given. And in this case, that's suspect.

CANDIOTTI: Even after he asked for a lawyer, the questioning went on and on. The next day, law enforcement sources say, Couey was read his rights and willingly took a polygraph in which he confessed, then made a statement to investigators.

A former federal prosecutor says that could save police from a possible major blunder.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's ultimately a question of whether it's voluntary. But if a defendant is Mirandized three times before the interview begins, three times a chance to remain silent and chooses to speak, three strikes and he's out, and that confession comes in.

CANDIOTTI: The sheriff would not directly answer questions about why the questioning continued after Couey asked for a lawyer. A spokesman for the sheriff calls the case against Couey, quote, "rock solid." Other sources suggest there's enough blood and DNA evidence to convict, with or without Couey's alleged confession.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, a few weeks ago, we told you about a problem with some Ford vehicles build before 2004 catching on fire while parked and turned off. Well, hundreds of cases have been reported across the country. And now the first possible death.

CNN's investigative correspondent Drew Griffin has an exclusive interview now with the family, who's speaking out for the very first time.

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DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a beautiful house that Earl Mohlis built with his own hands years ago. This year, on May 2, it burned to the ground. There was nothing he could do to stop it.

EARL MOHLIS, FIRE VICTIM: Dolly woke me up about 5 a.m. in the morning. She says, "Earl" -- she says, "There's smoke in the basement."

His 74-year-old wife, Dolly, weakened by arthritis, called 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one. What is the address of your emergency?

DOLLY MOHLIS, FIRE VICTIM: My garage is on fire!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your garage is on fire?

D. MOHLIS: I've got to get out of the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the garage attached to the house?

D. MOHLIS: Yes!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

D. MOHLIS: The car is on fire!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The car is on fire?

D. MOHLIS: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Dolly's 1996 Ford F-150 truck was in the garage attached to their home.

(on camera) This is where you saw flames?

E. MOHLIS: Well, it was more like... GRIFFIN: Right there?

E. MOHLIS: Right. See, that's what was shot. The glass was in there yet.

GRIFFIN: Right.

E. MOHLIS: She was coming out here. Right there. Right there is where she was coming out.

GRIFFIN: You saw the front of that pickup truck burning. That's what you saw?

E. MOHLIS: You bet you. She was burning.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Wearing only his shorts, Earl Mohlis ran to get a tractor, trying to save the house.

E. MOHLIS: I wanted to drag that pickup out of that garage.

GRIFFIN: But the tractor wouldn't start.

E. MOHLIS: Nothing worked that morning for me.

GRIFFIN: The fire quickly engulfed the house.

E. MOHLIS: It was burning so fast. The wind was blowing 50 miles an hour from the northwest. I says to Dotty, "You've got to get out of that house." She -- she come running, and she never made it.

GRIFFIN: Darletta "Dolly" Mohlis, Earl's wife of 34 years, was later found just steps inside the door.

E. MOHLIS: It hurts, boy. She ain't here no more.

GRIFFIN: What hurts even more is what Earl Mohlis says he found out after the fire. His wife's 1996 Ford pickup contained a part that was under investigation by the federal government, a part that may now be linked to at least 660 vehicle fires across the country, a part that critics, lawyers and some automotive experts claim is faulty and can ignite on its own, even if the car is turned off, sitting in a garage. And in this case, according to Earl Mohlis, not even moved in four days.

E. MOHLIS: I don't care what make it is and model, when you shut that switch off, that truck should be dead, shouldn't it? There was something wrong.

GRIFFIN: The part in question, a speed control deactivation switch. This same or similar switch is found on 16 million Ford vehicles. It is the switch that turns off the cruise control when a driver firmly presses the brake pedal.

What makes the Ford design unique is in nearly every case, the switch has electricity flowing through it, whether the vehicle is running or not. A thin film inside can crack, and that electrical current, combined with leaking brake fluid, has, according to Ford, led some switches to ignite.

The company has recalled more than a million cars and trucks to replace the switch but not the 1996 Ford F-150 pickup.

Dolly's three children say they had no idea there was a history of fires in some Fords equipped with cruise control until the day their mother died. Now, in a wrongful death lawsuit, the family is suing Ford, along with Texas Instruments, the company that assembled the switch, and DuPont, the company that supplied that thin film.

Dolly Mohlis may be the first person to die in a fire linked to Ford's cruise control switch.

KATHY BRADY, MOTHER DIED IN FIRE: We don't want any more deaths. There can't be any more deaths.

GRIFFIN: Texas Instruments insists it followed Ford's instructions and it's not responsible for overseeing how Ford uses their products. But the company insists its switch is safe.

DuPont says it only supplied raw material to Texas Instruments and was not involved in the design or use of the switch.

What the family doesn't understand is why Ford didn't recall their mother's truck when the first Ford fires, including many F-150s, were documented years ago. The car company has been selective in its recalls, saying it will only recall vehicles where "a trend pattern" of fires can be detected.

According to Ford, there was apparently no trend pattern for the 1996 F-150 truck, even though it contained what Ford acknowledges is the same or similar switch and even though this Ford document shows the company had reports of fires in this same model.

(on camera) You think someone at Ford made a business decision...

CAROLYN HOWE, MOTHER DIED IN FIRE: Definitely.

GRIFFIN: ... and gambled on your mother's life?

HOWE: Exactly. And looked at the dollars, and they said -- whatever decision, they probably decided it was cheaper just to pay for burned vehicles and maybe an occasional death.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): A few weeks ago, investigators from Ford and the federal government were at Earl Mohlis' farm, examining the scene. CNN was there, too, watching as they spent hours going through the rubble.

Also there, experts hired by the family's lawyers. Judd Clayton is an electrical engineer, and Keith Fowler is a certified vehicle fire investigator from Canada.

(on camera) Right now, you guys believe that that fire started right where, or in the general vicinity, of the deactivation switch?

JUDD CLAYTON, ELECTRICAL ENGINEER: Yes. That's correct.

GRIFFIN: Further testing will determine that it was?

KEITH FOWLER, VEHICLE FIRE INVESTIGATOR: Yes. We recovered parts of the switch from the fire scene, and we'll be doing laboratory testing to examine that switch.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): A federal investigation is still ongoing, but Ford has already concluded the truck did not cause the fire.

Company officials declined to talk on camera to CNN but did send an e-mail, saying "an inspection of the fire scene demonstrates conclusively that the fire did not originate from the 1996 Ford F- 150."

"And specifically," says Ford, "not from its speed control deactivation switch. Remnants of the switch were found at the scene and reviewed by Ford investigators during their inspection. These remnants rule out the switch as the cause of the fire."

"Instead," the company says, "the evidence suggests that the fire started elsewhere in the garage, spreading to the F-150 and the Mohlis home."

(on camera) So how can Ford come out and say that this fire absolutely, conclusively, did not originate from the switch?

FOWLER: I don't know how they made this statement. The remnants that we collected at the scene were not examined in any detail. We brushed a little bit of the debris off, and they've been collected and retained. But no testing or examination in detail has been done on those remnants. So I'm not sure how they're able to make that statement.

GRIFFIN: I'm trying to be a little bit of devil's advocate here, guys, because I've got Ford Motor Company, which is a huge company, telling me this fire did not start in this switch.

Am I missing anything? Are you missing anything? Is there anything they could possibly have that caused this fire that was not that switch?

FOWLER: Anything's possible. We found no evidence of any other potential fire cause at the scene at this point in time.

CLAYTON: The specific area of origin, as witnessed by Earl, I think it leaves little doubt as to which area of the vehicle was involved first in this fire.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): What's different about this case, they say, is Mohlis' firsthand account of what happened that night.

E. MOHLIS: I raised up the garage door. Sure enough, the left front end of that pickup was -- she was burning away.

GRIFFIN: Earl Mohlis is now living in a trailer on his farm overlooking what used to be his home. Dolly, he says, is always on his mind.

E. MOHLIS: She was my true love, too. Boy, I miss her. It hurts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, beginning with vehicles in the 2004 model year, Ford stopped using the switch that's blamed for causing hundreds of these fires. Ford insists that vehicles it has not recalled are safe. But experts we've spoken to advise owners of these cars and trucks to have the switch disconnected or replaced by a Ford dealer.

In the meantime, these experts are also parking -- or say, rather, parking your vehicle away from your house might not be a bad idea.

We're going to keep you updated on the ongoing federal investigation into these fires.

More LIVE FROM right after a quick break.

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PHILLIPS: Well, finally, some good news for U.S. carmakers. Ford and G.M. cars are getting good marks in a dependability survey.

Susan Lisovicz joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story. A bit of good news after seeing Drew's investigative report, Susan.

(STOCK REPORT)

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