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Flight Ready?; Iran: Then and Now; Pentagon Briefing

Aired June 30, 2005 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: A decision affecting your bottom line expected this hour. Live pictures from the New York Stock Exchange Big Board. Wall Street awaiting a decision from the Fed on interest rates. We're going to bring it to you live when it happens.
Is NASA ready to launch the space shuttle? A live news conference this hour. We're on the story.

American hostages held in Iran say their country's newly-elected president was one of their captors 25 years ago. We're going to talk with a former hostage.

And how are Aruban investigators handle the Natalee Holloway case? A former homicide detective weighs in.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

We begin this hour looking skyward. After unspeakable tragedy, months of intense scrutiny, and more that two years of redesigning, is NASA finally ready to return to manned spaceflight? We could know in just a matter of minutes.

Our Space Correspondent Miles O'Brien -- you remember him -- is just waiting for the word.

Hi, Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra. Good to be back.

I'm told by folks at NASA that the meeting is in about its final half-hour. This is the flight readiness review, and it's the last big hurdle before any space shuttle flight. Of course, this one, the stakes are so much higher, two-and-a-half years after the loss of the Space Shuttle Columbia.

The Space Shuttle Discovery is poised on the launch pad. The hope is that it could launch as early as July 13. Just a few miles away from where Discovery sits at the Kennedy Space Center, the entire NASA shuttle management team has gathered in one room to go through all the technical details of what they have done to try to make the shuttle fly safer and to come up with a solid rationale for proving that the shuttle is, in fact, safe to fly.

Of course, you'll remember, Columbia, on its launch back in January of 2003, piece of foam two pounds in weight fell off that external fuel tank, dropped on to the leading edge of the wing. It caused a fatal breach in Columbia's thermal heat shield. Sixteen days later, as the crew of seven came back, they perished in the heat of re-entry.

Now, fixing that debris problem, of course, was high on their list. And the independent advisory boards that have been watch- dogging NASA over these two-and-a-half years say they haven't reached perfection on this debris issue, but they've done everything that they could. NASA administrator Mike Griffin, a couple of days ago, before he left for this big meeting, spoke to NASA employees and indicated he feels the shuttle is safe to fly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GRIFFIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: We are tasked with eliminating all debris shedding from the external tank and associated parts of the shuttle system. We have not been able to do that. No one knows how to do that.

So we either believe that we have reduced the debris to an acceptable level of risk consistent with other risks that we assume when we fly the shuttle, or we don't. But I do believe we have and we must go forward on that basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Of course you'll remember the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated February 1, 2003, as it came in, killing the crew of seven. There you see those dramatic pictures that we've seen time and again over Texas, 16 minutes shy of its intended landing in Florida.

In addition to all of the debris, fixing that they have done over the past two-and-a-half years, NASA has done countless things to try to improve the safety of the space shuttle.

One of the things they'll be doing, Kyra, on this mission is testing out a technique for repairing those thermal tiles in space with a space-walking astronaut. It's an idea that NASA doesn't have a huge amount of confidence in, but they're going to try it out anyway -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles. Thank you so much.

Well, now to the potential powder keg involving Iran. Washington says it's checking into charges that Iran's next president interrogated U.S. captives during the infamous hostage crisis. At least five former captives say they recognized the face. They say that the man that you see on the left elected in a landslide Sunday is also the man you see on the right photographed at the U.S. embassy during the 1979 takeover.

With more on the story from London now, CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: While several former hostages claim that the new president-elect of Iran was a hostage-taker back in 1979, there are denials coming from Iran itself and, of course, from the president-elect, saying that he was not a main -- he was not part of the main hostage-taking group. However, there are others who believe that he did have some role during that time.

And it's important to note that many of the Iranians who now find themselves in the establishment, in positions of power, whether it be in government, in local government, in journalism or other professions, many of them were part of the hostage-taking. For instance, Masuma Ibtikor, the first woman vice president under the former president, Mohammad Khatami, a reformist, she was part of the hostage-taking group. She was a spokesperson throughout the years when Americans were held hostage in Tehran.

We have also interviewed in the past journalists who are now reformers who were part of the hostage-takers and who say that they're now into having reform democracy and more freedoms in Iran.

What's more troubling, according to analysts, about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not whether he was part of a hostage-taking group or not, but how he will enact policies as president of Iran. They're wondering how the nuclear negotiations, for instance, will continue. European analysts, European officials who are part of the nuclear negotiations with Iran are voicing some pessimism, wondering how their negotiations are going to proceed under the hard-line president, Ahmadinejad.

Inside Iran, women, young people are wondering whether some of the small personal freedoms they've ...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: I apologize for dumping out of that. We're going to take you straight to the Pentagon. General James Conway talking about that Chinook crash in Afghanistan.

Let's listen in.

LT. GEN. JAMES CONWAY, DIRECTOR OF OPS, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We do extend our sincere condolences to the families and friends of those service members involved in this incident and to all involved in the fight against violent extremists.

With that, we'll be happy to take your questions.

QUESTION: General, could I ask just a couple of questions on that? There have been reports that SEALs and Special Operation troops were among those. Could you give us any details at all on that?

And how about reports from the Taliban that they might have "executed" other U.S. troops before the other helicopter arrived on the scene? Have you anything on that? CONWAY: We do know that there were Special Operation Forces aboard the helicopter. I would defer until after notification is complete, Charlie, before we announce anything more in terms of the makeup of those forces. And I think I'll have to defer back to my original comment on not talking about the nature of the ongoing operation in terms of anybody else that might be on the ground.

QUESTION: Well -- well, but, I mean, you've said you've lost these 16. Have you lost any others in the operation, do you know?

CONWAY: No. At this point, not that we're away of.

QUESTION: General, could I give one follow-up? General Petraeus (ph) yesterday at his confirmation hearing said he believed the helicopter was downed by an RPG. Can you confirm that?

CONWAY: That is what we believe. We had a Dash 2 that was moving with the helicopter. And that's the initial reports coming from the scene from those pilots.

QUESTION: Dash 2?

CONWAY: A secondary craft.

QUESTION: We've been talking about a force structure in theater, and I was wondering, beginning, planning for another rotation for a replacement in Iraq? And if so, a makeup of Marines, Guard, Reserve components?

CONWAY: Sure. We have an iteration of what we call 46, which is on deck at this point, 0406. The next iteration will be 0507. That connotes to when the forces go in and when they come out after -- after the year-long rotation, in the case of the Army.

In the case of the makeup, it's anticipated that you'll see a couple of Marine regiments associated with the -- with the force rotation flow. At current, we have six National Guard or Reserve brigades as a part of 0406. There will be two National Guard or Reserve brigades as a part of 0608.

LAWRENCE DI RITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: And let me be clear about a couple of things.

First of all, as is always the case when these rotations, units are identified, we'll make all the announcements. And we're not doing that today.

Secondly, don't anybody misled -- be misled by the titles of these rotations as to indicating that we know how long or at what levels we're going to have anybody in Iraq. There's no change to our policy, and we have to have a title for these things, and that's the title they came up with.

So the general is not announcing the duration of U.S. forces in Iraq, because that's not something he knows or anybody else does. BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: General Conway, I understand you cannot talk about ongoing operations in Afghanistan, but I would like to ask you in detail about what did happen in the helicopter crash. It has been announced that they were coming in to reinforce troops on the ground in a ground fight. That has been said publicly many times.

What can you tell us about the accounting for the troops that were on the ground in that ground fight at the time? Is everyone accounted for?

CONWAY: Barbara, I can only say it is an ongoing operation in that context, and we don't have full accountability, nor will we until such time as the operation is complete.

STARR: Sir, can I ask you to clarify, when you say you don't have full accountability, I have to ask you what that means in terms of U.S. troops. Do you not have full accountability, in your words, of U.S. forces on the ground at the moment?

CONWAY: As in any operation, when the operation is complete, you have your casualty count, the notifications and those types of things. So I'm just very hesitant to talk about those types of things while we have troops on the ground and in those mountains in Afghanistan.

STARR: And I do apologize for pressing you, but it's an unusual statement when a general says from a podium "We don't have full accountability." Is there any way you can further clarify what you mean?

CONWAY: No.

DI RITA: And let me try and help. What he's trying to say is what we're announcing today is that we're able to confirm 16 personnel on the helicopter.

We have acknowledged that the purpose of that helicopter was to go in and reinforce people on the ground. We just are not able to account for any other personnel yet, not in terms of people involved in rescue or anything like that, that's not what the general is referring to. He's just simply making a point that there's an ongoing rescue mission, and we just don't have any more to confirm than what we have confirmed.

QUESTION: But didn't you say that no others were lost earlier when we asked...

CONWAY: I said we don't have any information to that effect.

STARR: Sir, do you have accountability for the people in the firefight on the ground?

DI RITA: Barbara, when we have more to announce, we'll announce it.

QUESTION: I guess what she said, do you have anybody missing? When you say accountability, do you have people missing and not accounted for, and you just don't know what happened to them? Are there people missing who were on the ground?

CONWAY: We do not have any people classified as missing at this point.

DI RITA: I think people can appreciate that it's a sensitive matter and we're trying to be precise in how we talk and trying not to disrupt ongoing operations. And we're just not going to have any more for you on it.

PHILLIPS: Pentagon spokesperson there, Larry Di Rita, next to Lieutenant General James Conway.

Of course reporters asking about that Chinook that went down in Afghanistan. A couple things we can clarify now.

The general is saying definitely 16 bodies were on that helicopter that went down in Asadabad in Afghanistan. He did confirm there were Special Operation Forces onboard that helicopter. He also said that this rescue mission is ongoing; therefore, they can't talk about names or exact location, but that this rescue mission is ongoing.

Now, what's interesting is they're calling it a rescue mission, which means, you know, they're leaving it open to dead or alive. He also is confirming that, indeed, according to the Dash 2, the secondary aircraft that was in the air with that helicopter, that they do believe it was an RPG that took that helicopter down.

We'll have more, of course, on this story coming up at the 3:00 Eastern hour with a retired helicopter pilot.

Also, we're going to have more on the claims that Iran's next president may have interrogated U.S. captives during the infamous hostage crisis. A little later we're going to talk to a retired Army colonel, Chuck Scott. He's going to be our guest. He's one of the former hostages who says that he recognizes Iran's new president- elect.

Also straight ahead, dozens of volunteers searching for Natalee Holloway. Aruban police are searching for clues, and we're trying to find out if they're any closer to finding the truth. We're going to take a closer look at how the investigation is going with a retired homicide detective.

And Italy accuses the CIA of kidnapping an Egyptian cleric. We've got details on a new development in that case.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. Coming up, I'll have the Fed's decision in just a few minutes on interest rates and tell you what it means for your wallet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right. All eyes on Wall Street. We're looking at the Federal Reserve.

Policymakers are expected to announce their decision on interest rates any minute now. Susan Lisovicz standing by live. Her eyes also on what's taking place there at the New York Stock Exchange.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, we're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Denials and counterclaims of the alleged kidnapping of a Muslim cleric in Milan. It includes claims of torture and that the CIA was behind it all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): According to Italian authorities, when he was kidnapped in broad daylight two years ago, the Egyptian-born cleric known as Abu Omar was walking down this street in Milan on his way to the nearby mosque. He was a long-time terrorist suspect, and was under surveillance by Italian police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Italian nation of police, but also many intelligence services from Europe and the U.S. consider him an important asset (ph) of a radicalism in Europe and in Italy as well.

VINCI: Italian prosecutors believed the CIA organized his abduction. And in court documents obtained by CNN, it is asserted the suspect was first driven to an airbase in northern Italy then transferred to Egypt, whether, according to the same documents, he was interrogated and possibly tortured.

(on camera): The operation, as claimed by Italian prosecutors, appears to have the hallmarks of what is known as extraordinary rendition, whereby U.S. agents seize a suspect and transfer him to a different country to be interrogated without court approval.

(voice-over): Abdel Hamichani (ph) knew Abu Omar. He tells me that a year ago, Abu Omar was briefly released and put through a phone call to his wife in Italy.

"In Egypt, he was kept locked up for many months," he says. "Nobody knew anything. When he called us, he told us that he had been tortured, that they treated them badly, that at the airbase, too, he was beaten."

After that phone call, the Egyptian police arrested him again and put him in jail.

Abu Omar's whereabouts are currently not none. An Italian judge last week issued 13 arrest warrants against the alleged CIA agents for what the warrants charge was their role in the cleric's disappearance. They are now considered fugitives under Italian law. Among those sought by Italian police, a former U.S. consul in Milan who investigators believed organized the operation. Court documents obtained by CNN assert the operation was meticulously planned. Prosecutors claim cell phone records link the time and place of the 2003 kidnapping to the alleged agents who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars at Milan's best hotels, rented cars, and paid bills with credit cards.

A source close to the investigation says that would appear to indicate they behaved as if they were not concerned about being spotted. But Italian government officials deny Italy had prior knowledge of the alleged CIA operation and have summoned the U.S. ambassador in Rome to explain.

"It cannot be hypothesized that such an operation would have been authorized," he said, "nor that any Italian agencies would have been involved."

U.S. sources, however, tell CNN, the CIA, in fact, did obtain permission from Italian intelligence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VINCI: And those same U.S. sources are telling CNN's David Ensor in Washington that, in fact, as it is routine with renditions, should the case become public or exposed, then the agreement between the Italian and the U.S. intelligence is that either they would deny any kind of knowledge of the case or even basically saying no comment.

Back to you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now, Alessio, also coming from our sources, apparently they're saying that Americans and Italians would decline to comment or even acknowledge any information regarding this scenario if the information became known.

VINCI: That's correct. And as a matter of fact, this is exactly what the Italians appear to be doing at this time, basically saying we know nothing about it, except that it took them way too long to come up with that kind of explanation. And so there are a lot of questions here regarding whether, in fact, the Italian intelligence really didn't know.

The big question here obviously is that this suspect, Abu Omar, was allegedly kidnapped by the CIA in an area of Milan highly controlled and highly observed and patrolled by the Italian intelligence and by Italian police simply because it is an area known to be filled with possibly Islamic militants. And therefore, it is quite unbelievable, if you want, that this suspect may have been snatched, if you want, by the CIA officers without anybody in Italy knowing about it.

PHILLIPS: All right. Alessio Vinci, thank you so much.

Now some insight into these type of covert operations from someone who used to be a CIA analyst, Bob Barr, former prosecutor and congressman, and CNN contributor.

OK. A lot of interesting things to touch on. But, first of all, now our sources coming forward and saying that the CIA obtained the approval -- the CIA obtained approval form the Italians to do this, and the Italians saying, no, that would never happen.

Who is telling the truth?

BOB BARR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's more likely than not in this instance that on that particular issue the CIA officials, the U.S. government, because it would be highly unusual for the CIA to engage in a covert operation such as this without the knowledge and concurrence of the host government. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely.

But if, in fact, this is the case, where you have the Italians now saying, even though they knew about it, we didn't know about it, that indicates to me a much even more serious problem, because that means that even though the Italians probably did know about it, they are deliberately lying about it simply to embarrass and weaken the United States' intelligence operations there.

PHILLIPS: But I thought Italy was an ally. I thought they were a part of this war on terror.

I mean, there was the situation in Iraq where the accidental shooting, one of their agents was taken out by a U.S. -- by U.S. forces. That journalist, Italian journalist, was freed. Is there some animosity that's existing here because of that, or is it much deeper than that?

BARR: I think it's both. I think that there still is some lingering anger over the shooting of the Italian agent and the wounding of the Italian lady journalist when she was being taken out of Japan -- I mean out of Iraq. But even more important, I think, is a smoldering resentment over U.S. policy generally in Iraq that now is boiled over into the public arena. And that indicates to me a problem that the president, George W. Bush, has to address.

He can't just ignore this. This is having serious repercussions on our intelligence operations.

PHILLIPS: All right. So obviously there's the issue of the U.S. and Italy, the relationship there. But also, what does this tell us about the CIA, already under fire for having intelligence issues and not being organized and not communicating well. I mean, should they have just either let the Italians go after this terrorist and prosecute this terrorist, or bring him back here to the United States?

I mean, what can you do legally? What would have been the right move?

BARR: Well, the right move, if, in fact, we believe this man has either committed acts of terrorism against U.S. personnel or the United States or is engaged in a conspiracy to do so, as we used to do during the Cold War, and even with regard to Libya many, many years ago, we would capture these people and bring them back to the United States to answer the charges. That's always the best way to do it.

But what's going on now is we're capturing these people and apparently not doing it in a real professional way. And that does indicate some continuing problems with the way the CIA still has apparently not gotten its act together. But then we're facilitating sending these people to third countries in which they either are tortured or we suspect they're going to be tortured, and that raises a very serious not only moral issue, but a foreign policy issue that also is creating resentment among some of our former allies.

PHILLIPS: And there's still so many gray areas when it comes to capturing alleged terrorists. All right. Bob Barr, thank you so much.

BARR: Sure, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, was Iran's newly-elected president involved in taking Americans hostage? We're going to talk live with a former hostage who says he recognizes him. That's moments away right here on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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