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Former Hostages Say Iranian President Held Them Captive; U.S. Confirms 16 Dead in Chopper Crash; Vietnam Vet Discusses Dangers of Flying Helos; Ferry Crashes into Marina in Vancouver

Aired June 30, 2005 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Elliot Ness had Al Capone, but these days the feds are all over the Internet. In a wide-ranging sting operation called Operation Site Down, agents cracked down on the theft and global distribution of bootleg movies and other copyrighted material. Investigators teamed with at least 10 other countries, making four arrests so far and shutting down web sites.
The election raised suspicion, at least in Washington. Now Americans say his ultimate conservative politics stem from a militant past.

Take a look at these photos. The one on the left is Iran's president-elect and current Tehran mayor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That's in 1979, the year 52 Americans were taken hostage in the U.S. embassy and held for 444 days.

The shot on the right is one of hostage takers, and several former captives, five that we know of, say it is Ahmadinejad. Others say they don't see it. And the embassy takeover ringleader tells CNN Ahmadinejad absolutely had nothing to do with it.

Former hostage Chuck Scott says he recognized him on the spot. And if you were with us last hour you heard Scott share his memories of a national and very personal nightmare.

Well, the White House says the former hostages' charges are serious and are being looked into right now. Standing by with more, CNN's Elaine Quijano -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.

And this could have enormous implications for the Bush administration. This of course, is a wartime president, President Bush, who has said that he will not deal with terrorists.

Now, the U.S. is, in fact, supporting efforts by European partners to have talks with Iran about its nuclear ambitions, but if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is identified as having been one of the hostage takers, that would not square with the president's policy.

Here is how national security advisor Stephen Hadley responded to a question about that just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHEN BRADLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Well, we need to get the facts. These are allegations that have come forward. They are allegations at the present time. They raise, obviously, serious questions. That's among the ones you've raised, obviously. We need to take a look at those, we need to get the facts, and then we need to see where we are.

Obviously, though, this man has now been elected by the Iranian people. It is an election that we think is less than free and fair. We've been very clear about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, an administration official says that various government agencies are right now looking into the Iranian president's identity, taking a look at footage, examining photos, doing interviews. The official says that the possible ramifications of all of this are unprecedented on several levels: political, diplomatic and also for U.S. policy.

The U.S., of course, does not have diplomatic ties with Iran, but Kyra, many open questions for the U.S., including questions of perhaps possible immunity for the Iranian president because of his position. But right now the focus is on the identification -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Elaine Quijano, we'll stay on top of the story. Thank you very much.

Now, a top Pentagon official confirms the U.S. helicopter that crashed in Afghanistan was downed by enemy fire. There were 16 people on the Special Forces helicopter, and at this hour there are details so sensitive officials are keeping them secret.

With more from the Pentagon now, CNN's Barbara Starr -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, as you say, we've just concluded the briefing here in the Pentagon, officials confirming they have recovered the remains of all 16 service members, Special Operations forces on board that helicopter. And they are beginning the process of family notification. They do believe it was brought down by an enemy rocket.

But there is much more to this story that is unfolding, Kyra. An extraordinary statement from the Pentagon, saying that there is no full accounting yet, two days later, of the troops that were on the ground engaged in the firefight when this helicopter was shot down. No full accounting of U.S. military forces on the ground. Listen to what the Pentagon had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Is everyone accounted for?

LT. GEN. JAMES T. CONWAY, JCS DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS: Barbara, I can only say that it is an ongoing operation in that context, and -- and we don't have full accountability, nor will we until such time as the operation is complete.

STARR: Sir, can I ask you to clarify, when you say you don't have full accountability, I have to ask you what that means in terms of U.S. troops. Do you not have full accountability, in your words, of U.S. forces on the ground at the moment?

CONWAY: As in any operation, when the operation is complete, you then -- you have your casualty count, the notifications and those types of things. So I'm just very hesitant to talk about those types of things while we have troops on the ground and in those mountains in Afghanistan.

STARR: Apologize for pressing you but it's an unusual statement when a general says from a podium, "We don't have full accountability." Is there any way you can further clarify what you mean?

CONWAY: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: General Conway, the director of operations, being very delicate about what he is saying, but what we do know is that that is still an active combat zone, Kyra. Two days later on that mountainside, Pentagon officials saying that U.S. forces are still engaged in combat with the insurgents, and they simply cannot account for the status of all the U.S. troops on the ground -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Barbara Starr live from the Pentagon, thank you.

Our next guest knows all about active combat zones. The area where that chopper went down is quite rugged and extremely dangerous for pilots to maneuver. Joe Denigro knows those dangers well, having flown attack helicopters in Vietnam. The retired captain from the Navy joins us live in San Diego.

Joe, great to see you.

CAPT. JOE DENIGRO (RET.), U.S. NAVY: Good to see you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, before we get into some stories from Vietnam that could definitely somewhat compare to what we saw happen here, when you strap into that helicopter and you're going through a high threat area, tell me what's going through your mind. Tell me about situational awareness and what is so important as you go from area to area in a combat zone like this.

DENIGRO: Well, it's important to maintain communications. It's very important to rely on your training. And I'm sure they were doing it at that time.

The conditions are somewhat different, though, in Afghanistan than they were in Vietnam. We were flying -- the squad and I flew where the Sea Wolves were flying Special Operations, missions with the SEALs in Runsat (ph) special zone in Mekong Delta. It was flat. You didn't have the high altitude problems that the folks over there have.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're looking at video, actually, right now from when you were flying in Vietnam. And that's why I wanted to talk to you, because we heard today that Special Operations forces were on board that Chinook, possibly SEALs.

Tell me about that time you were in Vietnam. You had SEALs in the back of your helicopter, and you were coming into dangerous territory. Tell me what happened.

DENIGRO: Well, actually, we were flying gun ships at that time, and what we did was give gun cover, close air support to SEAL insertions and extractions.

And on one night mission that was planned right down to the tee, the SEALs got into a firefight. We were scrambled to go out and extract them early. It was very dark, low hanging clouds. We were around 200 feet. And they communicated to us that we were taking some automatic weapons fire but it was nothing that would bother us.

So I turned slightly to look at my door gunner, and he was backed against his seat back, with his weapon across his chest and his head turned. And I noticed that there were tracers going through one open door and out the other open door. So what the SEALs considered to be something that won't necessarily bother you bothers most mortals.

PHILLIPS: So when you noticed that, how did you stay focused on your mission?

DENIGRO: Well, you have to. I mean, that's -- that's part of the mission. I probably wouldn't have seen it had I not turned around. I knew it was there. We could -- we could hear it. We could hear it in some cases impacting the aircraft. You just continue to do what you have to do, because what's important is to get your friends out of the area as soon as possible.

PHILLIPS: Well, Joe, let's put into perspective how important the SEALs are, if indeed it's the SEALs that were in that Chinook that went down. You know, you were the one that were -- you were right there at the beginning of -- well, you were in Vietnam, the beginning of the SEALs and why the SEALs were even created. Let's just talk for a moment about why they are so crucial to a wartime mission.

DENIGRO: Well, at that time we were engaged in an unconventional war. That was the beginnings of naval special warfare. The SEALs were created out of UDT. And there were only two teams at that time.

We learned soon after that that unconventional warfare would probably be the wave of the future. And it certainly is now in the war on terror. So the SEALs and others of their ilk, Special Ops forces, Rangers, Green Berets and other Special Operations Forces are going to be what wins this war for us. They're vital and crucial to the mission right now.

PHILLIPS: And Joe, you asked me if, indeed, the Chinook that went down in Afghanistan had gun cover. I did find out earlier from Lt. Gen. James Conway, there was a Dash Two. There was a secondary aircraft. That's pretty much how they've confirmed that it was an RPG that took this Chinook down.

Talk about how important gun cover is -- and explain to our viewers exactly what it is -- when you've got helicopters traveling through high threat areas like this.

DENIGRO: Well, without speculating on the tactics that they used, I'm sure they've honed them greatly since the -- since 1969-70, the Vietnam War. But it's vital to ensure that the insertion and extraction come off the way you plan it.

Usually it's quiet in the LZ. You plan these things down to the most minute detail. And normally they go off very smoothly, particular with Special Operations forces, because they're light. They don't carry a lot of ammunition. So you want to get in and out of there quickly.

Normally it's not an issue. But if it is, if the insertion is an issue or many times the extraction is an issue, it's very important for gun cover to lay down covering fire so that those troops can get out of there safely.

PHILLIPS: Joe, when you were flying in Vietnam, and we know how hairy that was, and now looking at Iraq and Afghanistan and what troops are up against, specifically pilots that are having to fly so much. And people depend on these pilots to keep them alive and safe and get them from one point to another or extract them from a high threat situation.

What do you think, looking at what pilots are dealing with now, compared with what you dealt with in Vietnam? Do you see similarities? Do you see big differences? Have things gotten easier or is it still just an absolute nightmare?

DENIGRO: Well, you know, absolute nightmares are always relative, I guess, just like anything else. As I've said, they've honed their skills. They're using newer technology right now, but it's still war. You do everything you can to put the odds in your favor, but when we talk about odds, we're talking about a gamble. And sometimes the dice roll your way, and sometimes they don't.

The important thing is the training. The important thing is the coordination. And the important thing, the most important thing, Kyra, is knowing you can count on each other.

PHILLIPS: Amen. Capital Joe Denigro, retired captain there from the United States Navy and helo pilot. Thank you so much for your time, Joe.

DENIGRO: You're welcome, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, a chase of a suspected stolen truck takes a few unexpected turns onto an airport runway. We're going to show you how it ends up.

And just in time for the holiday weekend, a threatened airline strike. Yes, that's what we told you, just ahead on LIVE FROM.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This week in history, on July 2, President Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The act made employment discrimination illegal and outlawed segregation in public places such as theaters, restaurants and libraries.

An international custody battle ended on June 28 as Elian Gonzalez returned home to his father in Cuba. The decision was made by the U.S. Supreme Court after the boy's Miami relatives appealed to keep him in the U.S. The 6-year-old Cuban refugee was rescued from the sea off the Florida coast seven months earlier.

And in 2003, Academy Award winning actress Katharine Hepburn died of natural causes at the age of 96.

And that is this week in history.

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PHILLIPS: All right. More -- all right, we are working, still, a breaking news story for you, as soon as we get an interview. I'm told we have an eyewitness, so we'll bring it to you. That's that B.C. ferry crash that happened in West Vancouver. We'll update you on what has happened there in just a second.

But first, a deal worth big bucks, I'm told. Bank of America has announced plans to acquire credit card giant MBNA for $35 billion. The deal, if it goes through, would make Bank of America the largest issuer of credit cards in the U.S.

One downside: Bank of America estimates about 6,000 people will lose their jobs in the merger.

Well, labor problems at United Airlines could disrupt travel over the Fourth of July weekend. Susan Lisovicz, live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story.

Oh, boy, Susan. I can tell it's going to be a hard weekend to travel.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right, Susan, thank you so much.

Other news across America this hour.

Another missing child, this time it's Oregon. Four-year-old Matel Zachary Sanchez (ph), last seen yesterday afternoon at this house. Dozens of police officers with search dogs are combing the Portland suburb of Milwaukee.

And why are they running from police? This is Phoenix, Arizona, today. A suspected car thief took a stolen pickup onto the tarmac at Sky Harbor and learned that those airport fences are much stronger than they look. Car chase, over.

And a little Wimbledon update for you. That's right, Venus Williams. They said she was back, and she came back big, taking Maria Sharapova down. As you know, this brings Venus up into the finals, playing the winner of Lindsay Davenport and Amelia Mauresmo. We are following that, of course, to find out if it will be Amelia or Lindsay taking on Venus Williams for the Wimbledon prize.

All right, we're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

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PHILLIPS: More now on that breaking news story we've been bringing to you out of West Vancouver, Canada. It's the D -- or the B.C. ferry accident that we've been telling you about.

Joining me on the phone, Marc Landry. He's on the ferry now. We've reported, Marc, about the crash into the marina, a docking attempt at Horseshoe Bay that went awry. You were on the ferry. Tell me what happened.

MARC LANDRY, FERRY PASSENGER: Well, we were preparing to dock within 10 minutes or so, and we were all in -- most people were in their cars waiting to -- for the ferry to dock.

An announcement came on the P.A. that told people to prepare for impact. I've been riding the ferry many years, and we've had similar situations where the ferry just hits the dock too hard. And I figured that's probably what we were up against.

As it turns out, they continued telling people to make sure they're seated and to brace themselves for impact. And within four minutes, I believe, I could see through -- I was about 10 cars back on the deck.

And I could see that there were some sails ahead of us from sail boats. And all of a sudden they were -- from vertical, they started swaying sideways until now they're laying flat, with the boat under the ferry and the masts sticking out of the water sideways.

PHILLIPS: Do you know, Marc, if there have been any injuries?

LANDRY: There -- currently, there's no injuries reported on the ferry nor on the dock. Now, there's many divers here that have gone under to have a look at the boats that have been mowed over with the ferry. You can see parts of boats sticking out. But I know that there are boats under that you can't even see. So the divers are now currently under there looking to see if there's any people. PHILLIPS: Now, Marc, some...

LANDRY: They don't believe -- go ahead.

PHILLIPS: Some people live in these boats, right? They sleep in these boats?

LANDRY: That is correct. I think there was about four minutes, they say, or from what I can recall that the ferry was sounding its horns very loud. Even if people were sleeping they would have been woken. Now, that's what we hope.

PHILLIPS: So you think they would have had enough time to hear the alarm, hear the whistle from the ship and get out of that boat or move the boat?

LANDRY: That's correct. But you know, if they live near the ferry dock, they hear the whistle all the time. It may have just been a routine thing. So we don't know.

There's two large tugboats waiting to pull us out. They're not going to move until the divers have finished their search.

PHILLIPS: Can you describe to us the impact, how strong the impact was, when it hit the marina.

LANDRY: There was actually no impact whatsoever. It slowly came to a halt and so there was no impact.

PHILLIPS: Do you know how the boat, how this vessel lost control?

LANDRY: It lost power, so because it lost power it lost the steering. And usually when the ferry docks they put the engines in reverse to slow it down, and obviously they couldn't do that either. They dropped anchor, and that's maybe what slowed them down.

PHILLIPS: Stay with me, Marc. I just want to reference some live pictures that we're -- actually this is some tape I'm going to reference right now coming to us from Canada's CTV. The divers in the water.

Marc Landry, who is on that ferry that cranked into the marina at Horseshoe Bay in West Vancouver, has been telling us he can even see over the bow there of the ferry that the divers are in the water. You know, hopefully will not find anything. But of course, they're in the water, just in case any individuals were in those small boats that Marc is telling us some are even underneath the ferry as the ferry came crashing into the marina.

So Marc, you've been taking this ferry. Do you take it for tourist reasons or do you take it back and forth to work or why do you take the ferry?

LANDRY: No, we live on Vancouver Island, so we travel the ferry probably 10 or 15 times a year. PHILLIPS: So this is not a common occurrence to crash into the marina?

LANDRY: Not at all.

PHILLIPS: Has it ever happened before when you've been on board?

LANDRY: Not that I recall. I know the ferry has run aground on low tides and such, but I've never heard of it crashing into the marina.

PHILLIPS: So what else can you see right now? Because we're looking at tape. We don't have a live picture.

LANDRY: OK.

PHILLIPS: Describe to me what you see.

LANDRY: Right now, there's search and rescue helicopters. There's two or three of them hovering around. There's two or three hover craft. There's all kinds of search and rescue boats. There's tugboats, fire trucks, police cars. I guess every kind of emergency personnel that you can think of are here.

PHILLIPS: Well, that's good to hear, especially considering that the possibility exists there could be people trapped in those boats that are underneath this ferry.

Marc Landry, I've got to tell you, you're one of the best interviews throughout the day. Great information, great detail. We sure appreciate you calling in. Marc Landry there, one of the ferry passengers. I'm glad you're safe, Marc. We appreciate...

LANDRY: Payday is this Friday, is it?

PHILLIPS: Payday is this Friday. I don't know, you know what? Actually, you did do a very good job. Why don't you keep in touch with us, because you could be a very good on the scene reporter, Marc. I'm glad you're OK. Take care, Marc.

LANDRY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right. That was Marc Landry, live from the ferry, the B.C. Ferry. Actually, a pretty serious story, since we don't know if, indeed, anybody is in the water there or trapped inside some of those small boats that are trapped underneath the B.C. ferry.

It crashed during a docking attempt at Horseshoe Bay in West Vancouver, Canada. So far, no reports of injuries. We still don't know how that vessel lost power, but we'll continue to update what happens with that story and with those that are on board. More than 500 passengers, I'm told, 544 passengers on board.

Well, that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM. Quite a busy day. Now here's Suzanne Malveaux with a preview of what's ahead on "INSIDE POLITICS." Hopefully, it will slow down a little bit. Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Well, hi, Kyra.

Did the man who was just overwhelmingly elected as Iran's next president once hold Americans hostage? We'll go live to the White House to find out what President Bush is saying.

The Supreme Court says local governments can seize your property and turn it over to private developers. But that decision's not sitting well with lawmakers. We'll go live to Capitol Hill to see what Congress is saying.

All this and much, much more when I go "INSIDE POLITICS" in two minutes.

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