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CIA Leak Investigation; Hurricane Emily; Suicide Terror

Aired July 18, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The CIA leaked case and the White House. President Bush speaks out about the punishment if anyone on his staff committed a crime.
Tracking Hurricane Emily. The powerful storm hits Mexico and threatens Texas. New information about the forecast track releasing right now.

Hi, Bob.

Legendary comedian Bob Newhart joins us live to talk about his career and why we are all lucky he was not a very good accountant.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris, in for Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

Well, the White House is all defensive again today in the criminal investigation into a highly sensitive leak. Despite months of official denials, there is growing evidence now that a top ranking aide to President Bush and the chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney assisted in blowing the cover of a U.S. intelligence operative. It happened back in 2003 during the effort to justify invading Iraq. New information, new questions as well.

With the story now from the White House, CNN's Bob Franken.

Hi, Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Tony.

The two are Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove, the longtime political adviser of President Bush, and Scooter Libby, who's the chief of staff of the vice president. Both are named in an article by Matthew Cooper, the "TIME" magazine reporter, and in testimony before the grand jury, who have discussed with him to a limited degree the involvement of Joe Wilson and his wife who was identified as a CIA agent.

Of course, the investigation is whether a law was broken when those leaks originally came out. Both of the lawyers say that their clients broke no laws.

At any rate, while that discussion was going on, reporters were pressing President Bush at a news conference, who in the past, through his press secretary and personally, has said anybody involved in these leaks would be dismissed from the White House. Those were his words. Now listen to the new formulation today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's best that people wait until the investigation is complete before you jump to conclusions. And I will do so as well.

I don't know all the facts. I want to know all the facts. The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending time investigating it.

I would like this to end as quickly as possible so we know the facts. And if someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: So now it is anybody "involved in the leaks" to "if somebody committed a crime." A slight change, but an important one, particularly since it could be a considerable period of time before the investigation and the subsequent trial, if there would be one, would determine that somebody had committed a crime.

Karl Rove was not seen at an event today with the Indian prime minister, but he is seen at the side of the president repeatedly in recent days. A very clear signal that the president has no intentions of jettisoning Rove anytime soon -- Tony.

HARRIS: Yes, Bob, I think that's -- you've hit upon it. It sounds like the president's not going to do anything until there is some kind of official finding from the grand jury, regardless of what the mounting evidence seems to suggest.

FRANKEN: Well, it could be the grand jury, or it's possible that it might be not until after a conviction, if there was one.

HARRIS: Yes.

FRANKEN: And that, of course, came up in the briefing today. That could be the result of an accusation then that the administration was trying to run out the clock.

HARRIS: Bob Franken at the White House for us.

Bob, thank you.

And over the weekend, reporter Matt Cooper went public with what he told a grand jury that's investigating the leak as a possible federal crime. Cooper says before he talked to Rove in 2003 he didn't have a clue that the wife of Ambassador Joseph Wilson worked for the CIA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW COOPER, "TIME": After that conversation, I knew that she worked at the CIA and worked on WMD issues. But as make clear -- made clear to the grand jury, I'm certain Rove never used her exact name and certainly never indicated she had a covert status.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Now, Cooper says his subsequent conversation with Cheney chief of staff Lewis Libby was along the same lines as the Rove conversation. Still unclear is how Rove and Libby got their information that Wilson's wife was an operative. A Republican Party spokesman says it came from a reporter.

ANNOUNCER: CNN, your hurricane headquarters.

HARRIS: The Mexican Riviera drenched by Hurricane Emily today. Already damage is being surveyed in Cancun and surrounding areas where the storm slammed ashore as a Category 4 hurricane early this morning. It's since weakened to a Category 2.

We have a team of correspondents on the story. Jacqui Jeras is tracking Emily's movement, and Chris Lawrence is on South Padre Island, where Texans are preparing for the wrath of the storm.

But first, let's look at what Emily has left behind on the Yucatan Peninsula. Our Karl Penhaul is in Playa del Carmen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The winds are dying down substantially now. The hurricane, though, did come over here in the hours of darkness, in the very early hours of this morning. Playa del Carmen is, more or less, exactly where the eye came across, according to the weather experts.

Now, in terms of the damage, the damage that we've seen has mostly been restricted to a lot of trees and a lot of foliage coming down. You might be able to see behind me part of a treetop that has been snapped off here on the beachfront down in Playa del Carmen.

Elsewhere along the city's main avenues, many other trees strewn around. Also some of the power cables are down. But city officials did take the precaution of cutting all power to the city before the hurricane actually struck in order to avoid anybody being electrocuted.

Now, Playa del Carmen, like much of the rest of this coast, a main tourist resort. And authorities say 130,000 tourists were on vacation over this weekend. Half of them Mexican, and the other half either from the United States or from Europe.

But according to police in this resort town, there have been no casualties, neither among the residents nor among the tourists. Everybody is fine, and certainly part of that seems due to the evacuation plan, because what we saw yesterday afternoon in the hotels was that almost all the guests were being moved out of their rooms and being put into solid structures inside the hotels. Most either into the ballroom and into the convention center.

That certainly seems to have paid off, because the police say that everybody has emerged from this unscathed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Wow. Emily's threat is far from over. Check out this new satellite image, and you can see that the storm is now back over the Gulf of Mexico.

Let's bring in Jacqui Jeras in the CNN weather center.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: We've got to tell you, south Texan residents are worried about Emily really making a run for the border, and they aren't taking any chances. Many are breaking out the essentials of hurricane season right now, hammers and plywood.

Our Chris Lawrence is on South Padre Island -- Chris.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Tony, I almost hate to dispute that, but folks here on the beach are more concerned about getting enough sunscreen than getting out any hammers and shovels. It's just a beautiful day out here on the beach. It's hard to believe that we are in a hurricane watch right now. But as you said, a lot of people here are deciding, hey, I'd rather be on the safe side than end up sorry.

Now, we've seen a lot of people out boarding up businesses, boarding up their windows, trying to minimize some of the damage they think might occur when those winds really start to gust and trying to save as much as their property as they can. Also, the counties around here have just stockpiled thousands of sandbags for the residents here to come by and pick up.

We've heard that at times there have been over an hour wait to pick up sandbags at some locations. But again, residents will be trying to use those to minimize some of the flooding and water damage that could occur if this storm -- if we catch the northern edge of it and it does bring a lot of rain to the area. There is some serious danger of some flooding in certain valleys in and around this area.

But again, you take a look right now here on the beach, just a beautiful day. Truly the calm before the storm.

A lot of these folks are tourists. They came down here for vacation. So they don't necessarily have homes to worry about. And many of them say since we're not expected to take the direct hit right here, they say they feel comfortable enough to just kind of stay here, ride it out, and hope for the best -- Tony.

HARRIS: Chris, we'll keep our fingers crossed for them. It does look like a beautiful day there now.

Chris Lawrence, South Padre Island, Texas.

Chris, thank you. And as always, you can go directly to CNN.com/hurricanes for the latest information on Emily, plus hurricane history, videos, photos and plenty of background on the 2005 hurricane season. Stay tuned to CNN, your hurricane headquarters, for the very latest on the storm day and night.

New information obtained by CNN today about the suspected suicide bombers and where they went before they hit London's subways. What inspires someone to strap on a bomb and blow themselves up? We'll talk with an author who's done some extensive research on that subject just ahead.

But first, the hill came tumbling down. Now the legal battle is just beginning for the homeowners. That story coming up on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: The probe into the London terror attacks is moving deeper in Pakistan today amid new word of three of the bombers' movements. Pakistan officials tell CNN bomber Hasib Hussain arrived in Pakistan almost exactly a year ago. And four months later, two of the other bombers entered. Their purpose in Pakistan is not yet clear, but al Qaeda is known to be extremely active there.

Today, Scotland Yard upped the death toll from the July 7 bombings to 52 victims, and the British government is scrambling to counter an independent report that says Britain's alliance with Washington in the war in Iraq puts it at risk to acts of terrorism.

The attacks in London are the first known instance of suicide bombers in London. For years, suicide attacks have been a staple of Middle East terrorist groups. And in today's Iraq, they have become a daily occurrence.

Joining us now, author Mia Bloom. She has studied the deadly phenomenon, and she explains it in her book titled "Dying to Kill the Allure of Suicide Terror."

Mia, good to see you.

MIA BLOOM, AUTHOR: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Tony.

HARRIS: We need to talk about that cover in a second. But kind of an open-ended question. You take it where you will.

The motivation, simple, complicated motivation. What's the answer to the why question? Why does someone strap bombs to their bodies?

BLOOM: You know, it's really interesting, because what I did in the book was I tried to do an analysis of the different kinds of suicide bombing campaigns that occurred among the Palestinians, the Chechens, the Tamils in Sri Lanka. And although individual motivations varied, one of the common themes that emerged is that there is generally a feeling of outrage, a feeling that this kind of violence is the only way that they can express their political goals and the political goals of the community.

So that's why it makes the London bombings particularly shocking that these are not imported terrorists like the 9/11 terrorists in the United States. And they're not new immigrants the way the Madrid terrorists were. These are homegrown. These are good English boys.

HARRIS: And by all accounts, they're young. They're young men. And we're trying to understand this generation.

What is it -- what is it that is disaffecting them? What is this political agenda? And how would they ever hope to achieve any of their political goals by strapping bombs on and going into crowded areas and just setting them off? What are the goals?

BLOOM: Well, I would imagine that from their perspective, you know, we've learned three of the four -- maybe even the fourth one -- we don't know much -- have gone to Pakistan. And they have fallen under the influence of some radical imam who has convinced them that this is a good idea.

But generally what we've seen among the Islamic community of Great Britain is a repudiation of this tactic. And unlike the Palestinian martyrs and other martyrs, the parents have come forward and said, we're against this. And I think that that's good.

I think it's good that the imam of the Finsbury Park mosque that was the radical mosque in the U.K. has come out and said we're against this. And a number of fatwas have been released in which Islamic theologians have opposed it.

Now, if they were supporting it, we probably would see lots and lots more. I'm hoping that this portends a new wave in the larger Islamic community, saying that this is a bad idea, we repudiate it, we don't want this here.

HARRIS: Hey, what do we learn when we look back to, say, the 1983 bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon? Do we get a sense from those attacks -- that attack of the origins of this kind of an approach?

BLOOM: Well, it's interesting that the Shia with the Hezbollah began suicide bombing in 1983, and 241 American servicemen lost their lives. They've then exported this tactic both to the Palestinians and to a certain extent to the Tamils in Sri Lanka, and it has spread.

In the 1980s, there were three groups using suicide bombing. Now we have over 46.

And suicide bombing is very effective. It kills six times as many people as regular terrorist tactics. It wounds 12 times as many. And it really gets a lot more press.

And as a result of this, the organizations believe that if they want to get their message out -- but the individual bombers think this is the way they can help their community. And so a lot of times we see the bombers know each other, they're friends from school, and one person becomes a bomber and brings in all of their network and their friendships with them.

HARRIS: Where are they getting the money? Where are they getting the training? We hear Pakistan connected to the story in London. Talk to us about this network.

BLOOM: What really disturbs me is that a lot of the money continued to be coming in from Saudi Arabia. And up until March of 2003, when the Saudis began rounding up and arresting their al Qaeda members, by and large, even after 9/11, the Saudis continued to send money, over $100 million to Palestinian martyrs, which include both the people that blow themselves up and people that killed.

HARRIS: Yes.

BLOOM: So I think there is a lot of Saudi money that has lubricated the system hoping to insulate Saudi Arabia from these kinds of attacks. In 2003 we saw that doesn't work. So the money is coming from al Qaeda. It's coming through different kinds of operations that are both legal and illegal and are doing money laundering.

HARRIS: Religion, Islam. What is the role? It is, we understand, a radical form of Islam. Explain that and how it connects up to this kind of what we have heard described as an anti- establishment movement among young Muslims.

BLOOM: Well, you know, I think that that's somewhat misleading. I think that although a number of these 46 groups using suicide bombing now are Muslim, I think it's really antithetical to the Islamic faith. And someone who is really a true believer in Islam, who is educated, would say, yes, I understand that you're pointing to this hadiz (ph), or you're pointing to this Koranic verse, but really the rest of the sentence says the following: that Mohammed preferred peace and negotiation.

So I think that these are pulpit revolutionaries who are manipulating the religion. But they're finding justification for the bombings, and so they are perpetuated.

HARRIS: Tom, throw up the cover of this book. This is an amazing picture. I don't know if we've seen it yet, but here it is, here is the book "Dying to Kill." And that is a picture of a man we presume holding his child and a young girl with bombs around her waste. That is...

BLOOM: And the picture is from Germany. I mean, if you see the German statement. And so it's not in the Middle East.

I was trying to convey that there is a whole generation of young people who are growing up and want to grow up to be just like these bombers. And although we're fighting them there so we don't have them here, we may in this generation have them here.

HARRIS: Mia, thanks. Thanks for writing the book. It sounds like it's a good read and we can learn a lot from it.

BLOOM: Thank you so much for having me.

HARRIS: Yes. Good to meet you. Good to meet you.

And still to come, a man who confessed to a string of terror bombings in the United States learns what part of his punishment will be. We're live from the sentencing of Eric Rudolph just ahead.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Allan Chernoff, live from the New York Stock Exchange. I'll tell you why job hunters have a reason to be more optimistic.

CNN's LIVE FROM will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Testimony in the first Vioxx-related lawsuit to go to trial gets under way in Texas today. Allan Chernoff joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange with the latest.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HARRIS: One-time fugitive Eric Robert Rudolph was sentenced today in Birmingham for one of a string of terrorist bombings in Alabama and Georgia. Among those there in court, a nurse who was wounded at the Birmingham Women's Clinic that Rudolph bombed back in 1998.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY LYONS, SURVIVED BOMB ATTACK: To let him know he's a failure. His attempts that day did not go as planned. He did not kill me. He didn't shut the clinics down.

Unfortunately, Officer Sanderson was killed. But he failed. He did not get what he wanted that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: We take you live now to the courthouse and reporter Alan Collins of CNN affiliate WBRC -- Alan.

ALAN COLLINS, REPORTER, WBRC: Tony, as you see, victims of that 1998 bomb blast here in Birmingham got a chance to address the court today, to express their feelings, as did Eric Rudolph. He continued on his rant against abortion but never once saying he was sorry for that 1998 bomb blast. In fact, Rudolph did mention during that time -- his time in court today that he said he was motivated by what he called his recognition of abortion as murder, believing that deadly force was justified in that incident.

Now, earlier in the day, the widow of Birmingham police Officer Robert Sandy Sanderson, Felicia Sanderson, she also addressed the court, talking about her husband, talking about he lived the life he wanted, wearing the uniform of a Birmingham police officer. Her voice cracked at times. Her eyes full of tears as she talked about the loss of her husband and father of her children. Now, Sanderson did manage to protect clinic nurse Emily Lyons from taking the brunt of that blast. He saved her life. Lyons also addressed the court, talking about how -- what she called Rudolph, basically calling him a terrorist and a coward, and also saying that she was not angry because that would give a victory to Rudolph.

Now, Rudolph sentenced to two life sentences here in Birmingham. He faces another sentencing in Atlanta August 22 for additional sentencing involving the 1996 Olympic bomb blast and other bombings in the Atlanta area. But again, Rudolph sentenced to two consecutive life sentences and spending the rest of his life at a maximum prison in Colorado -- Tony.

HARRIS: Reporter Alan Collins in Birmingham, Alabama, for us. Alan, thank you.

A quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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