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In London Four Attempts at Serious Blasts

Aired July 21, 2005 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And we're updating the London terror attacks every 15 minutes for you. Still closed, two lines of London's underground. They were shutdown after police responded to four attempts at serious explosions just a few hours ago. So far, no reports of extensive damage or major casualties. Stay with CNN for the latest from London.
A defiant Saddam Hussein demanding fair treatment for himself. A new tape reportedly taken today shows the former Iraqi leader protesting his latest court hearing. Our senior editor of Arab affairs Octavia Nasr is coming soon with more on that next hour.

No through passage. Drug enforcement agents have sealed an underground tunnel near a border crossing between the U.S. and Canada. They moved in yesterday after watching drug smugglers build the tunnel over the past eighth months. A closer look now. New video of that tunnel next hour.

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PHILLIPS: Coming fully under control in London. That's what British police say after four attempts at serious blasts at three underground stations and a double-decker bus. The incidents come two days, two weeks rather to the day after the first London train attacks.

CNN security analyst Pat D'Amuro joins us now from New York to talk about it. And just to set it up properly, Pat, you were head of the FBI in New York, correct?

PASQUALE "PAT" D'AMURO, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: That's correct, Kyra. I retired at the end of March.

PHILLIPS: Great, I just wanted to make that point, because I've got questions with regard to the FBI. I'm getting word from one of my sources that the anti-terrorist branch, the special operations branch, SO-13 -- I think you call it the special branch -- has met with the FBI there at the U.S. embassy in London. Do you know anything about that gathering and if, indeed, this is a good sign, how helpful would this be? Tell me about the relationship with the special branch.

D'AMURO: Well, Kyra, we actually have an assistant legal attache assigned to the office in London that works closely with special branch. Ever since the East African bombings in 1998, the New York office has met with special branch on numerous occasions to share intelligence and information with respect to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

PHILLIPS: All right, so let's talk about the attack that took place two weeks ago, and now what we saw today, and the links that the special branch and FBI will try to make, and that starts with a fingerprint, not the kind of fingerprint that we know of, but kind of take viewers through the investigative process on determining a link.

D'AMURO: Well, I think what's important right now, and I'm sure what the authorities are concentrating on is trying to determine what type of device was going to be utilized. They've recovered, obviously, some devices that did not detonate. So they're going to look at those devices and see if it has what we call a fingerprint to lead that investigation to the group or individuals that may be involved. If, in fact, it is similar to devices two weeks ago, that will be significant. Right now, we're not sure if this is a copycat bombing, or what we have in this particular situation.

PHILLIPS: And, Pat, explain to our viewers what you mean by fingerprint, because it's not the kind we're thinking of that we, you know, put the ink on our finger.

D'AMURO: Right, it's the type of device, the explosive material utilized, the detonator utilized, how the device was being presented. That's what refer to as a fingerprint in law-enforcement terms.

PHILLIPS: Now when we hear significant breakthrough -- and that's what police are saying in Britain -- do you think that means they could be on to an actual individual? Do you think that might mean that they just are able to make a link between the explosive materials?

D'AMURO: Well, the authorities in the U.K. have made tremendous progress since the bombings two weeks ago. So if they have an individual identified, it seems like that term that they utilize would mean that they have a suspect, or somebody that they're taking a close look at.

PHILLIPS: Is it possible that what happened today could have been left over from what was supposed to happen two weeks ago and that maybe this doesn't mean there are more people involved or maybe more attacks ahead?

D'AMURO: Well, that's possible. But we do know that Al Qaeda, and groups like Al Qaeda, are desirous of trying to conduct numerous attacks. We had intelligence information that identified they Al Qaeda wanted to attack the FBI after the East African bombings, where they wanted to set off another device to actually to try to kill some of the investigators involved in that operation. So it's not unlike Al Qaeda. But again, this is way too early to determine who's responsible for this. They've got a little bit more work to do before they can come out and state that.

PHILLIPS: All right, broader picture now. When we've seen these terror attacks, we hear them about them in Iraq, we hear about them in Afghanistan. Now we're hearing about them in London. Now of course Americans are back here in the United States, thinking, oh my gosh, are we next? And could we be next? Tell me what's taking place among all the intelligence agencies, FBI, CIA, other agencies, U.S. military, agencies in Britain, even in other countries, to try and prevent anything from happening, whether it be Paris or the United States.

D'AMURO: Well, you know, it was the -- let me just state that going back to 1998, it was the investigation into the East African bombings that the FBI conducted through the joint terrorism task force in New York that found the -- Al Qaeda's extensive reach throughout Europe. In fact, there's still individuals that are indicted in London that are waiting to come here for trial. So it was that investigation that shared a lot of that intelligence with Germany, Italy and the U.K.

Since that time and since 9/11, intelligence and law enforcement services globally are sharing much more information than ever before. So that's going to continue and that's a positive thing. Here in the States, we're seeing a lot of changes in Washington as to how the face of counterterrorism will look -- counterterrorism investigations will look in the future, with the new national director of intelligence. So there's going to be many more changes to come for what the scene will look like here. Are we vulnerable? Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: Well, that was my final question. I wanted to know, from what you know, from those previous investigations when you were active FBI, what you know now, sitting here in the United States, you in New York, I'm in Atlanta, should we worry? Should we worry about a possible attack here in the United States?

D'AMURO: We've said it before. Al Qaeda still desires to attack the United States and they're still trying. There's no doubt in my mind.

PHILLIPS: CNN security analyst Pat D'Amaro. Welcome to our team. It's nice to have you. Appreciate your insight.

D'AMURO: Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

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PHILLIPS: And we're updating the London terror attacks every 15 minutes. Today's attacks left behind significant evidence, but little damage or injury. That's the word from police now investigating the incidents at three subway stations and on a double-decker bus. It's not clear if there's a link with the more devastating terror attacks of two weeks ago, which, as you remember, killed 52 people.

Now, Britain's leaders are urging people to stay calm and just go about their business. Even as London police investigate today's bombings, the probe into the July 7th attacks continues, and the British government is taking a hard look at the possible role of so- called radical clerics. Tough new legislation could mean that Muslim clerics suspected of inciting hatred would be expelled. Before today's incidents unfolded, CNN's Nic Robertson put together a story on one such cleric, a man that Britons would love to see deported.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you prepared to apologize for what you said to the British people yesterday?

SHEIK OMAR BAKRI MOHAMMED, MUSLIM CLERIC: See, I don't speak with pornographic newspapers.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is the man the British love to hate right now. Newspaper headlines demand he be thrown out of the country.

Muslim cleric Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammed, who last year predicted al Qaeda would attack London, now says the British government is to blame for the attacks.

MOHAMMED: I believe the British government is to be blamed. The British public to be blamed. And the moderate Muslim to be blamed.

ROBERTSON: An internal government report, listed his group, Al Muhajiroun, which he says is now disbanded, as extremists. Its followers, vulnerable to becoming killers.

A young man who attended one of his meetings went on to become Britain's first suicide bomber in 2003, attacking a nightclub in Israel.

MOHAMMED: Many people attend my meetings. Now, if they attend somebody else's, as well, meetings. Myself, I never, ever recruit people to go out to fight. Nor do I believe it is allowed.

ROBERTSON: Proposed new legislation to stop radical clerics inciting hatred could lead to Bakri's deportation. He's lived here for more than 20 years, doesn't consider himself British, but does take government unemployment benefits.

MOHAMMED: See, I'm living here. And I'm entitled for whatever anybody's entitled. You think I'm not entitled, don't give me.

ROBERTSON: He proudly proclaims himself an extremist but says he is part of a solution to stopping terror attacks, not part of the problem. That it is moderate Muslims and the government who are out of touch with the Muslim youth.

MOHAMMED: There are issues -- it is not the problem -- not from the extremists. I think they are part of the solutions. I believe so. We are part of the solutions. We are able to hold the youth, and we can hold them again, by the world of wisdom, which is based on the Quran.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For your safety...

ROBERTSON: He claims he had no part in the London bombings, did not know the four men involved. Indeed, condemns the attack.

MOHAMMED: I say to you, I condemn any form of bombing here or abroad, killing any innocent people.

ROBERTSON: The British government is holding summit meetings, enlisting moderate Muslims to marginalize clerics like Bakri. He remains unabashedly unashamed of his views.

MOHAMMED: My support if for Osama bin Laden. I share with him the same belief, and I pray to God to see that he himself will be guided and will be protected.

ROBERTSON (on camera): Bakri may well have had no involvement in the London bombings, but when asked if they thought there would be another attack, he said, God forbid, but if there is, it's their fault for not listening.

Nic Roberston, CNN, London.

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PHILLIPS: Turning to health news now. Fears of a bird flu pandemic have the U.S. and other countries looking to stockpile the avian flu vaccine. And Indonesia is stepping up its efforts to combat the spread of that disease. After recording its first human bird flu death, Indonesian agriculture officials say from now on they'll kill all chickens living on farms hit by the flu, not just the sick ones.

Yunis Yoon (ph) reports in today's "House Call."

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YUNIS YOON (ph), CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this Jakarta suburb, Kiki is trying to return to his daily routine, one day after learning his neighbors died from the bird flu. Recent tests from Hong Kong confirm that 38-year-old Iwan Saswara Rafey (ph) and his two daughters contracted the avian flu virus. It's the first bird flu death in Indonesia.

KIKI, VICTIM'S NEIGHBOR (through translator): I'm not afraid. I'm not worried.

YOON: But the authorities are. Thursday, the health ministry said it would pull out all the stops to fight the illness, which so far has killed 40 people in Vietnam, 12 in Thailand and four in Cambodia. Health experts fear the bird flu virus will mutate and one day spread from human to human, possibly causing a pandemic.

But Indonesia's health minister says, for now, the country has the outbreak under control.

SITI FADILLAH SUPARI, INDONESIAN HEALTH MINISTER (through translator): It's important to inform the public that there is no need to panic. It's crucial to be on guard. We also ask that citizens report any sudden high number of deaths of poultry or livestock.

YOON: Indonesian authorities are preparing 44 hospitals nationwide for treatments and ways to detect the H5M1 virus. They've tested over 300 people who had contact with those who died, as well as animals within a 20 kilometer radius of the victim's home. Health officials do not know how those who died contracted the virus.

GEORG PETERSON, WHO INDONESIA: We have not seen any infection spreading outside intimate family contact. So we don't say it's a human-to-human transmission. The victim's wife and son show no signs of the disease, but people in the suburb aren't sure what to think.

WIRANTO, CHICKEN VENDOR (through translator): I heard that if the chicken is cooked at a certain temperature, the virus is killed. That's my opinion, but I'm not sure about other people.

Yunis Yoon, CNN, Hong Kong.

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PHILLIPS: Coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM, four terror attacks in London again today. We're live on the scene with the latest straight ahead. And how did terrorists learn the tricks of the trade. CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson has some surprising answers. That and more, right after this.

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