Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Inside North Korea

Aired July 25, 2005 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now the nuke ambitions of North Korea. The remote and secretive country has requested -- or resisted, rather, previous international attempts to squelch its program, but a fresh round of talks is due to begin tomorrow.
And as representatives from Japan, Russia, North and South Korea, China and the U.S. prepare to meet in Beijing, CNN's Stan Grant looks at the challenges to ending the stalemate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Pyongyang's public face to the world. A land of smiling children, spectacular scenery, a glistening capital, Pyongyang.

But those who spend any time there paint a very different picture. A society under pressure, under siege, secretive and suspicious.

South Korean government sources tell CNN of power being wielded in Pyongyang by hard-line Cold War-era generals, faceless figures controlling North Korea's army. Sources say they don't even know exactly who they are.

It adds urgency to the six-party nuclear talks to try to resolve what one official speaking confidentially termed "the runaway North Korean nuclear problem."

Sources say North Korea can appear irrational and unpredictable, operating out of fear and insecurity.

Foreign businessmen trading in North Korea say Pyongyang is worried about its survival.

ROGER BARRETT, KOREA BUSINESS CONSULTANTS: Two years ago they saw what happened in Iraq and at the same time, I believe some people were saying that America could fight two wars on two continents simultaneously.

GRANT: Added to the fear, poverty and isolation -- a country unable to feed its own people.

RICHARD RAGAN, WORLD FOOD PROGRAM: They're working day and night to try to feed themselves, and families from some of these urban areas are also traveling very long distances to barter in rural areas for food.

GRANT: Blocked off to most outsiders, those who travel to North Korea talk of signs of social breakdown.

A diplomatic source tells CNN he hears more reports of theft and has noticed bars being placed on windows. He also reports an increase in prostitution.

Government officials, diplomats and aid workers all say their movements are restricted in North Korea, Kim Jong Il keeping a tight grip or security. Their travel monitored and contact with ordinary people limited.

RAGAN: We don't have access to all parts of the country. We're not able to stop randomly and visit houses where our beneficiaries are.

GRANT: For all that, the World Food Program says there are signs of reform. Officials, they say, are more accessible, and the government is keen to further open up its economy.

Some with close ties to Pyongyang say North Korea should be encouraged, not punished.

BARRETT: What I see is a will and a real desire for development, and I think development beats demonization every time.

GRANT (on camera): Pickiung through the conflicting signals and limited intelligence on North Korea, what emerges is a desperate nation brandishing a nuclear threat. As one South Korean official put it to me, it may soon be time to tighten the screws, sending Pyongyang a deadline to give up its weapons, or the next round of talks may well be in New York, at the United Nations.

Stan Grant, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: So can the world put North Korea's nuke genie back in the bottle? Not only does our next guest head a Harvard University program on managing the atom (ph), well, Jim Walsh has just gotten back from a trip to North Korea.

Jim, I'm glad you're back safely.

JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, I think what I found interesting on a personal note, tell me, as soon as you got off the airplane, what was said to you, not only by the gentleman that was picking you up, but also the vice foreign minister?

WALSH: Well, the vice foreign minister and my foreign ministry guide both said the same thing. They said, Dr. Walsh, this is the first time we've met, but we've seen you many times on CNN. So they are listening.

In fact, one of the foreign ministry persons, as soon as I got in the car to go for my meetings, the first thing he said was, we've seen you on CNN, and what do you mean when you say that North Korea is a black box? So I had to immediately start explaining myself when I arrived.

PHILLIPS: What did you say?

WALSH: Well, my guess is that the phrase black box does not translate well into Korean, and I tried to explain to them that it's about a lack of transparency. They don't understand us very well; we don't understand them very well.

PHILLIPS: I guess I was a bit surprised that they're monitoring CNN. When you were in your hotel, I think probably one of the only hotels there, were you able to just flip on the TV and watch CNN? I would think that things would be censored?

WALSH: No, CNN is in that hotel, and government officials also stay in that hotel. So it's not just foreigners who see it. In one evening of TV watching, I watched CNN, a film about Kim Jong-Il, The Yankees/Mets game on Japanese TV, and an edition of "Friends," with the Brad Pitt episode.

PHILLIPS: Unbelievable.

Well, let's talk about your trip. You had to write a 40-page report for the State Department. You had to let them know before you were going, and of course when you were coming back. Any surprises in those talks?

WALSH: Well, I was surprised by a couple of things. First of all, the North Korean officials I spoke with said they'd be willing to re-enter the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, the NPT, which they had previously withdrawn from, and submit to international inspection if in fact there was some sort of agreement. They also even more surprisingly said that they would welcome a strong verification regime. In the past, they've objected to the way the U.S. has talked about verification, the way that we could prove that there were no nuclear weapons in the Korean peninsula.

But they have turned that around and said it's not enough for North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. We want to make sure that South Korea doesn't have nuclear weapons. So we, the North Koreans, endorse strong verification throughout. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and they say that they would welcome strong verification on both sides of the peninsula.

PHILLIPS: All right, so in addition to seeing if the whole northeast Asian reach is following the same rules, when you talk about international inspections and possibly dismantling, are we talking full-access inspections? Because hasn't there been a number of times, where it's sort of semi-inspections have been allowed?

WALSH: Well, I think you put your finger on one of the many difficult issues that face negotiators this week and in the weeks to come. Yes, how intrusive will North Korea allow inspections to be? Because, remember, this is a country that is tunneled, well tunneled, and American officials are concerned that they might hide this aspect of the program or that aspect of the program. But I think it's something for negotiators to work out, and I think if they -- if all sides stick to this principle, which is strong verification throughout for all -- that is to say, mutually reciprocating -- that's winner. I think we should encourage the North Koreans to embrace strong verification as much as possible.

PHILLIPS: Now as you sat there and looked each one of these individuals in the eye, including the vice foreign minister, do you get a sense that you trust what they're saying? And do they get a sense that they trust what you and the U.S. is saying?

WALSH: Well, that's tough question. I have no magic ability to look into the hearts of men and women and see whether they're telling me the truth or not. I can only record what they tell me, and report that. American officials seemed quite sincere in saying that they would like to see a negotiated settlement to this issue, and I believe them. And the North Koreans in their talking points and in formal discussions repeatedly make the case that they are willing to get rid their nuclear weapons if we can have a better U.S./North Korean relationship, something closer to normalized relations.

Now whether the foreign ministry has the power to make that happen, as oppose the to Chairman Kim, or the military or other actors, I don't know. But that's what they're telling me, so that's what I got to go by.

PHILLIPS: Well, Jim, and you bring up Chairman Kim Jong-Il. I mean, wasn't it his father's dying wish that this just -- that this be a no-nuke region?

WALSH: You know, that phrase really caught my attention, and this was part of their talking points. They said that when Kim Jong- Il met with the South Korean unification minister on June 17th, that he said he made a brave strategic decision to have new relations with the U.S., which I think was the message, and also that it was his father, Kim Il-Sung's dying wish to get rid of all of the nuclear weapons on the peninsula. In North Korea, tradition and Kim Il-Sung are very powerful touchstones. So to have invoked those could be a single, could be a strong stuff.

PHILLIPS: Well, did you notice any sort of changes of progressive nature in North Korea? I had been reading a couple of articles about the Chinese coming over to the casinos near the border, the free markets, cybercafes even popping up.

WALSH: Well I don't think there are many cybercafes. They do have the Internet, which is an intranet; you can only go to government Web sites.

But you know, I think there is change afoot. I visited a market in Pyongyang, and I talked to an English teacher, an English English teacher at Kim Il Sung University. She said one of the most popular courses at Kim Il Sung University is English, and that most of those folks, those kids taking English, want to go into business. And when I met with one of the people from the ministry of trade, they're all about getting more trade and more foreign-direct investment. And you can see that at work also in the market, where people are setting their own prices, selling their on goods and haggling. That's what markets are all about.

Now, again, this isn't going to happen overnight, but those are very powerful dynamics that are being let loose now in North Korea. And it's clear that the North Koreans look across the border to the north, they see China, they're see being left behind. and some of them want to change.

PHILLIPS: As a final question, as you wrap up and left there, do you get a sense that, what's going to happen now, as we go forward? Do you feel good about talks? Do you feel good about what was demonstrated?

WALSH: Anyone who's worked on North Korea should never feel optimistic about anything. But that being said, I have hopes that this week will be important, not because they're going to settle the hard issues; they're not. But what's really important is that both sides demonstrate to the other that they are serious. Right now, we don't think the North Koreans are serious. The North Koreans don't think the Americans are serious. If in these talks both can make a gesture, a statement, take an action that will communicate crisply and clearly that they are serious, then there's a real chance that this thing could catch and that we could make some progress.

PHILLIPS: Jim Walsh, Harvard University, great to see you, Jim.

WALSH: Great to see you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, lawsuits against the makers of the birth-control patch, just ahead in medical news.

Also ahead, we all now Lance Armstrong is amazing. But how do you prepare for the next level? And can anybody replace him? Well, the doctor is in, Dr. Sanjay Gupta that is, with more on why he is even able to do this physically, right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We're continuing to follow the investigation into the bombings that took place in Egypt at the popular tourist resort in Sharm El Sheikh. You'll remember that a 27-year-old American woman and her British boyfriend were among the fatalities in last week's triple bombings at that resort. You'll remember that 27-year-old American woman, we told you just recently her name was Kristina Miller. And I'm being told now that we have her father Anthony Miller, who is in Egypt. He is there now.

Tony, can you hear me OK?

TONY MILLER, DAUGHTER KILLED IN EGYPT: Yes, I can. How are you?

PHILLIPS: Well, I sure appreciate you talking with us today. First of all, we want to offer our condolences. This has not been an easy story to cover, as you know, considering all the bombings that have taken place from London and now to Egypt. Sir, why don't you tell me what you're doing while you're there in Egypt? Are you working with authorities, in addition to having to deal, of course, with the death of your daughter, and planning her funeral?

MILLER: Right now, I'm just sorting out through the American embassy here are in Cairo. They've been wonderful, and outstanding guides here that have helped me locate Kristy, find her body, along with Kerry's (ph), and right now I'm working with them on getting Kristie to the funeral home here in Cairo, where she's going home to Las Vegas later on next week, and we'll have a funeral later on next week sometime. I'm just trying to deal with family and friends right now.

PHILLIPS: Tony, why don't you give us a few minutes and tell us about your daughter. Tell us about Kristie. I know she was celebrating her birthday there in Egypt, is that right?

MILLER: Correct. She turned 27 on the night of the bombing, and I talked to her that night, and she told me that she was going out to dinner with Kerry, and they were having a great time. She had two more days left on her trip there, and unfortunately she went out that night and was in one of the areas of the bombs, and didn't make it. But Kristie was a wonderful girl, wonderful, just very happy all the time. She was an outstanding college graduate, and full of life, full of energy, and way, way too young to leave me now, and I wish God I could trade places with her.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Do you have any other children, Tony?

MILLER: I have -- Kristie has two sisters, Stephanie, 21, in Las Vegas, and her younger sister, Lauren (ph), who's 13, who also lives in Las Vegas.

PHILLIPS: Are they with you, or are they back at home?

MILLER: My 21-year-old is back home. And my 13-year-old is currently with me in England, where Kris and I were living for the summer. And I'm going back to England tomorrow to pick up my wife and my younger daughter, and take Kristie back home.

PHILLIPS: Tony, were you concerned about security when your daughter told you that she was going to Egypt for her birthday?

MILLER: I was, but I wasn't, because I was told that where she was going, which is a good six-hour drive from Cairo, that is was one of the safest areas here, and that it nerve had any trouble. It was very popular with the Brits, like I guess going to Cancun almost. She didn't have concerns. We were two hours away from the London bombings, and that didn't bother her, really, you know.

But I will tell you this, she condemns it. She loves her president. She loves his beliefs. And I can tell you if she was here today, even though all this happened in Sharm El Sheikh, she would say, you know, don't stop believing in what we're doing over there. PHILLIPS: You have obviously, along with your daughter and your family, talked about terrorism around the world. It sounds like, as a family, you've talked about it. You were well aware of it. Now that this has happened, I'm assuming that it's empowering you to take an even bigger effort to somehow get involved in this war on terrorism and get the message out about what has happened to your daughter. I'm curious about what's going through your mind and if you've thought about maybe a role that you can play in just fighting this war against terror?

MILLER: You know what, as devastating as this is to me, and it's going to take me a long time to realize Kristie's not here with me, because she was my heart and soul. I'm sticking my chest out even further that I'm an American, and I'm believing even further that, you know, we have it stand up it these ideals over here, and keep going with our soldiers and our men over there, and you know, stand by our president, and stand for what he's doing, and don't give up on these guys. You know, I've lost a daughter now, who's been murdered over here. But you know what, we've got to go on. We cannot back down. We can't take one tiny step backwards. And this just makes me even more stronger and determined to, you know, fight these guys.

And, you know, and they're gutless. They can't come out. They have to run and hide behind bombs and suicides and, you know -- come out in the open, face us face-to-face. Come on, be a man.

PHILLIPS: Tony Miller, you couldn't have put it any better way. You're absolutely right. Every single one of those terrorists are cowards, and it's a shame that they take lives like those of your daughter, your innocent daughter celebrating her daughter. I know this wasn't easy to do, Tony Miller, but I sure thank you very much, and we send your prayers -- our prayers, rather, to you as you're dealing with this.

Thanks for your time.

MILLER: Thank you so much.

PHILLIPS: It's my pleasure, my absolute pleasure.

MILLER: We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Now to a medical marvel, "Superman" and his red cape are pure fiction, but Lance Armstrong and his yellow jersey are the real deal.

Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta has more on the most amazing sports performer of our time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's possibly the best endurance athlete in the world. Most of us know Lance Armstrong's name, but few know how he does it. It all starts with his genes.

GUPTA: Edward Coyle is director of the human performance lab at the University of Texas in Austin. World record holders, Olympic medalists and promising elite athletes all come here to increase their performance. At the young age of 21, Lance Armstrong was one of them. Coyle evaluated his physiology regularly for seven years.

EDWARD COYLE, DIRECTOR OF HUMAN PERFORMANCE LAB, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN: We found that, even at a young age, because of his intense training, he had a big engine, a big heart, and was able to consume large amounts of oxygen. Probably less than one percent of the population would have as much of a genetic head start as Armstrong has.

GUPTA: Lance Armstrong's physiology characteristics are nothing short of astounding.

His heart, it can pump nine gallons of blood per minute, working at its hardest, compared to only five gallons per minute for the average person. In one minute of maximum exertion, Armstrong's heart can beat twice that of a normal person.

His lungs, he gets almost double the amount of oxygen out of every breath that a healthy 20-year-old would. Everyone takes in the same breath, but Armstrong uses his two times more efficiently.

He also has more red blood cells to deliver oxygen to his body, meaning he can breathe better at higher altitudes. And that's a key in the treacherous Pyrenees and Alps mountains along the route of the Tour De France.

His muscles, Lance's muscles produce less lactic acid than most people, which means his muscles can go longer and harder without major fatigue.

COYLE: An average person when going to exhaustion would have to stay stopped or wouldn't be able to move for, you know, for 10, 15 minutes. Well, Armstrong is able to recover within just a couple of minutes, within one or two, and then go right back up to maximum.

You know, that's why you'll see him repeatedly trying to break away and then eventually succeeding.

GUPTA: While Lance may have the genetics and conditioning of a world class athlete, he has also had cancer lingering in his genes. He was diagnosed with the disease before ever winning the Tour De France.

COYLE: Lance visited the laboratory eight months after finishing chemo, and, essentially, we found nothing wrong with his body. And that really helped him in giving him the confidence that he could pick up right where he left off. GUPTA: All of this can ultimately make many people think Armstrong is super human.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy is a super hero.

GUPTA: And that's a question his mother has heard many times before.

KELLY: Is Lance super human? That's a question everyone has asked. He didn't get that way sitting on the couch eating potato chips. So lots of hard work, a lot of dedication.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com