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Texas Bible Class: Teaching Facts or Pushing Faith?; "American Voices"

Aired August 02, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," in Raleigh, North Carolina, a dump truck sitting on a track is hit by an Amtrak train, killing the truck's driver and injuring the train's engineer. Officials say at least three of the train's cars derailed. Some 220 passengers were onboard at the time. None was seriously hurt.
In Saudi Arabia, carrying his body to its final resting place, the funeral for King Fahd was held today in Riyadh. Delegations and dignitaries from around the world went there to pay their respects. King Fahd died yesterday. He's ruled oil-rich Saudi Arabia for 23 years.

At the U.N. and glad to be there. John Bolton, the newly-named U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, handed over his creditential to U.N. Secretary Kofi Annan today. It's Bolton's first full day on the job after President Bush named him to the post with a recess appointment yesterday. Bolton's nomination had been stalled in the Senate.

A terrifying night in Texas. A raging fire swept through an apartment complex for retirees in suburban Houston. Four people were injured here. Three of them were released from the hospital today. Some 150 residents had to flee their homes during that blaze. Thirty- five units were damaged or destroyed, displacing some 35 people. Right now, they're staying at a nearby church. No word on the cause of that fire.

Proper police procedures neglected. So says a report on the deaths of three boys in Camden, New Jersey, that was released today. Those boys suffocated after being accidentally locked for days in the trunk of a car. Their report also faults the parents for waiting three hours to call the police, not for telling them that one of the boys had previously played in the trunk. The Camden Country prosecutor says there's enough blame to go around for the city, the police and the family.

A graphic ad makes a powerful point in an effort to combat child drowning. A Phoenix ad agency placed dolls face down in more than a dozen Arizona fountains yesterday. Each wore a T-shirt with the sogen "If you don't have a fence around your pool, eventually, you won't need one." The chilling displays were meant to attract attention and make people uncomfortable. Many people say they did. August is Drowning Impact Awareness Month, by the way.

A Minnesota woman has quite a survivor's tale. Mary Munn is recuperating after a bear attack over the weekend. She says she was walking with her dog near her home when the bear charged her. Munn used a stick with her fist to fend off the animal, then amazingly, she walked home and called for help. She suffered a gouge in her right leg and has deep bites in her side and armpit. Animal control workers are still searching for that bear.

Straight ahead, President Bush experiencing a sinking feeling. The folks from Gallup with news of a first for this White House. It's not something that will make Pennsylvania Avenue proud. That's ahead when LIVE FROM returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: And this is just into CNN. We're getting word from Major League Baseball that a second baseball player has been suspended for testing positive for steroid use. Ryan Franklin from the Seattle Mariners, we are being told, has been suspended for ten days for testing positive for steroids. Major League Baseball came out and said he violated the joint drug and prevention treatment program.

As you know, it was just yesterday we told you about Rafael Palmeiro testing positive for steroid use after -- even after testifying before Congress that he never used steroids. Now, the second player within just a couple days to be suspended for testing positive for steroid use. It's interesting to see the second player in two days. You tend to wonder how many other players are being tested and if we might see more players being suspended for testing positive for steroids.

We'll continue to follow that story.

Meanwhile, we're going to move on. Evolution, God's creation. Which theory on the origins of life should children learn about? Well, President Bush is weighing in on the matter.

Speaking with reporters yesterday, the president said, quote, "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought." Mr. Bush added, "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes." Mr. Bush declined to go into detail on personal views on the matter. Intelligent design is a theory that suggests life on earth is too complex to have developed through evolution, suggesting a higher power was really at hand.

Well, is a Bible class for youths in public school systems teaching facts or pushing faith? That question lies at the heart of a controversy in Texas. An Odessa school system plans to offer an optional Bible class starting in 2006. Several thousand parents signed a petition asking for it. But some people are complaining that the class crosses the line from teaching about religion to actually promoting a specific faith.

Joining us now to talk about it, Kathy Miller of the Texas Freedom Network and Mike Johnson, an attorney for the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public School, a group that developed this course. Good to have you both with us.

KATHY MILLER, TEXAS FREEDOM NETWORK: Thank you.

MIKE JOHNSON, ATTORNEY, NATIONAL COUNCIL ON BIBLE CURRICULUM: Good to be with you.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's start out -- I was being looking at the mission statement, Mike, and it says here: "To inform the students of the importance of religion in the world and national history, without imposing the doctrine of any religious sect." Do you believe that this curriculum does not impose any type of specific religious sect?

JOHNSON: It absolutely does not. And as a matter of fact, it's been vetted very closely by constitutional scholars and educators and curriculum specialists for over ten years. This elective curriculum is being taught in 37 states and over 300 school districts without any controversy until now.

It presents the Bible objectively as part a secular program of education, which is exactly what the U.S. Supreme Court has said is acceptable and even advisable to do in the schools.

PHILLIPS: Kathy, do you agree?

MILLER: No, I don't agree. In fact, there has been controversy surrounding this curriculum, going back to 1995 in Lee County, Florida. But more importantly, when the national council suggests that it's been vetted by scholars, we've seen no report from these scholars about the curriculum.

However, yesterday, the Texas Freedom Network released a report that was authored by a biblical scholar from Southern Methodist University that outlines two very serious problems with the curriculum. First, it is sectarian, which is against the law and -- for use in a public classroom. And it is filled with academic errors and shouldn't be offered in any public school.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's address both of those points. Let's first of all start with the curriculum, and you saying that this explicitly has sectarian claims. I did look at a word list exercise in this curriculum. And Mike, I want to get you to respond. And it talks about certain words and how they're defined from Bible scripture, canon inspiration.

The Bible being described as "sacred book or collection of books accepted by the Christian Church." Inspiration being defined as "a term for the supernatural guidance of those who receive special revelation from God." Now, to me that sounds like it's being pretty specific in talking about the Bible.

JOHNSON: Well, sure, it is. And you have to understand the legal parameters and the objectives of this course. If Kathy had been willing to do more of her homework, we could have supplied her with the -- all the letters of attestation to the constitutionality of this court. The reason that it does not cross the line on the legal side is because it presents the Bible objectively. It's to educate and not indoctrinate, to present and not proselytize. It presents the Bible for its influence upon history and literature. And in order to be educated Americans, in order to be culturally literate in this Western civilization, in our culture, one has to have a basic foundation in what the Bible says. Now, the teacher can't take a position on whether or not he or she believes that is subjectively the truth, but he or she can present the Bible and say that this is what it says. That is the pursuit of academic freedom, and again, educational excellence.

PHILLIPS: Kathy, can you give me some specifics of where this is not academically rigorous, where there is strictly sectarian, as you say? And I know you believe there is definitely an agenda within this curriculum. Can you give me some examples specifically that I can get Mike to respond to?

MILLER: I can give you several specific examples. First with respect to it being sectarian, that is essentially very simple. If a curriculum Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, that is a fact and it is perfectly allowable in a public school classroom. If a curriculum says a Bible is the word of God, that is a statement of faith and it's perfectly acceptable in a Sunday school classroom, but not a public school classroom.

This curriculum goes far beyond that and it elevates as a respected scholar a person who has been -- who has made claims to have found documents of the lost civilization of Atlantis in the great pyramid of Giza. And that, in fact -- that pyramid was used to transmit radar signals to the Grand Canyon. That's a little frightening for me and it certainly advocates -- it was used to advocate a sectarian position that would document scientific evidence in the Bible.

PHILLIPS: So Mike, in the curriculum, in this class, is it said that the Bible is inspired by God, or are there other thoughts, train of thoughts, about the Bible as a piece of literature, as a piece of history, as a good book?

JOHNSON: That's exactly what it is. It happens to be most widely read, widely published book in history. And so to censor it from the classroom really robs students of a complete education...

MILLER: We're not trying to do that.

PHILLIPS: But Mike, but wouldn't -- don't you think it...

JOHNSON: If she -- if Kathy had read the material, she would see that there is a disclaimer on page two of the teacher's guide, which is what she's referring to, that makes reference to a vast array of outside materials. It says that the curriculum does not take a position or necessarily adopt or agree with those positions. The idea is that you stimulate discussion in the classroom about what the Bible says and about what some people's faiths believe about it.

PHILLIPS: So, Mike, why not just explore the discussion about the Bible and, say, the Jewish Tanakh and talk about that part of the Bible as well? Is that addressed in the curriculum? JOHNSON: Of course. The curriculum -- absolutely. The curriculum does exactly that. As a matter of fact, it gives balanced treatment to the Catholic traditions, the Jewish traditions, the Protestant traditions. As a matter of fact, the book that's used with it is an interfaith comparison of biblical passages. One couldn't imagine a more ecumenical approach to an objective Bible curriculum.

MILLER: Well, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

JOHNSON: And it's important to note that Kathy's view...

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Kathy.

JOHNSON: Well...

MILLER: I have to disagree. They recommend -- first of all, in defining the Bible, they say the Old and New Testament. For Jews, that would be an incorrect statement. And that is something they're asking teachers to teach. It's sectarian in that nature. With respect to the Catholic Bible...

JOHNSON: In that chapter, Kathy...

MILLER: ... when recommending...

JOHNSON: There are other...

PHILLIPS: Go ahead and finish your thought, Kathy.

JOHNSON: There are other chapters and sections in the curriculum that deal with the Jewish traditions and the Catholic traditions. As a matter of fact, the letter that attests to its constitutionality was drafted by some of the top constitutional scholars in the country, including law professors at Notre Dame and Princeton, who are Catholic scholars themselves, as well as a former member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

And Kathy's view and her radical leftist organization's view, is direct contradiction to hundreds of scholars...

MILLER: I really cannot accept the name-calling...

JOHNSON: School board attorneys, school board members across the country.

PHILLIPS: Kathy. Final word, Kathy. Final word, final word.

MILLER: We cannot accept the name-calling. This is not a debate about whether the Bible belongs in public schools. This is a debate about a particular sectarian curriculum that absolutely does not belong in public schools.

PHILLIPS: And why not have an elective where you talk about the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, the Book of Mormom...

JOHNSON: That's the key, it's an elective course. PHILLIPS: Why not just -- yes, but why not have a class available where you address all the various face in religion and learn about all the different books?

MILLER: I agree.

JOHNSON: Look, a comparative religion's course would also be constitutional. But this is not that. This is a course that is a review of the Bible for its impact upon history and literature. It's beyond dispute that the Bible is the religious text that has had the most influence upon...

MILLER: And the curriculum...

JOHNSON: ... the development of Western civilization and America. And that's the aim of this curriculum. And by the way, Kathy, it's an elective. If you don't want your kids to take it, just tell them not to. They can take something else.

PHILLIPS: Final thought, Kathy.

MILLER: I absolutely would want my child to take a properly taught course on the Bible in history and literature. And we released this report yesterday so school districts and parents could make an informed choice. It wasn't available before.

PHILLIPS: Mike Johnson, Kathy Miller, we got to leave it there. If you do want to check out the curriculum, I have to add -- we took a look at it -- for $150, you can buy it online. Thank you both very much.

We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: In our "American Voices" segment today, a major league scandal, a Texas vacation and concern about the economy. Gallup editor-in-chief Frank Newport joins us with the latest polls.

Frank, we usually start with politics, but let's talk baseball for a moment. Considering the latest news. Major League Baseball suspended Baltimore's Rafael Palmeiro yesterday, after testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs. Earlier this year, Palmeiro told a congressional panel that he had never used steroids. Did the public believe him then?

FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, we were out asking Americans about just that. And it's kind of sad, in a way. Because of the four baseball players, Kyra, that we asked Americans about -- again, this was back in March at the time of the hearings -- guess who was the one that American baseball fans were least likely, at that point, to think they'd used steroids, it was Rafael Palmeiro. Look at this. Clear majorities of baseball fans then thought that McGwire, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa had used steroids. What about Rafael Palmeiro? Only 30 percent said he had, 41 percent said he had not. So, it's too bad. He's the one that had the best image. Now, of course, we haven't tested it since the revelations yesterday. We assume that image is tarnished in many ways -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: And now we just got word that Ryan Franklin with the Seattle Mariners, tested positive, Frank. So, we'll continue to follow that development, too.

Now, President Bush heads for his ranch in Texas today, to start a month-long vacation. His job approval rating is down to an all-time low. But what about the feelings that people have about Bush as a person?

NEWPORT: Well, you know, it's a distinction. We do ask job approval hundreds of times actually for any given president, but we also ask: Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the president as a person?

And there are times, like with Jimmy Carter, that people had a higher opinion of him as a person than his job performance and sometimes vice versa like with Bill Clinton.

Here's the trend on George W. Bush -- some high points, favorable opinion. That big, big jump-up came after 9-11. He's been trending above 50 percent, but now, in this last poll, down to 48 percent. A 50 percent unfavorable opinion and this is the first time in a Gallup poll since we've been measuring George Bush back into the late 1990s, that more people have had an unfavorable tan favorable opinion of him as a person.

I can show you one of the reasons why: Independents have tilted toward an unfavorable opinion. Notice the middle there: 56 percent unfavorable. Republican, not a great shock, overwhelmingly favorable opinion. Democrats, unfavorable opinion, but these independents are tilting a little toward the negative side of President Bush -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Frank Newport, thank you so much.

And more controversy about the hit movie "The Wedding Crashers" and Jennifer Aniston speaks out about her soon-to-be-ex-husband Brad Pitt. CNN's Sibila Vargas has the latest from Hollywood. Hi, Sibila.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN HOLLYWOOD CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra. Well, it's hard to believe three weeks in release and suddenly "The Wedding Crashers" is the number one movie in America. But as we said before, the film is not without its controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OWEN WILSON, ACTOR: We're going to get drunk!

VARGAS (voice-over): It's that sentiment that has a prominent alcohol industry watchdog group up in arms. The Marin Institute says even though the film is rated R, it still appeals to a younger audience and its Budweiser tie-in encourages underage drinking. In an effort to cross-promote the film, New Line Cinema and Anheuser- Busch teamed up for a series of television ads, product placement and an online campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do they want?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To drink Budweiser and meet beautiful women like this.

VARGAS: Responding to the criticism, Anheuser-Busch says the film is aimed at an adult audience and is a perfect fit for their top- selling beer.

VINCE VAUGHN, ACTOR: I got us covered: Purple Hearts.

VARGAS: This isn't the first speed bump to hit the film. Just last week, the film came under fire for its use of the Purple Heart as a ploy to attract women. New Line Cinema reacted by removing its printable Purple Hearts from its Web site, saying it never meant to disrespect the honor. Though it appears to be open season on "The Wedding Crashers," it has yet to take any hits at the box office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VARGAS: And "The Wedding Crashers" has already taken in over $116 million. Well, moving on to other news, it's been eight months since Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt announced their separation and now for the first time, Jen is breaking her silence.

Aniston tells "Vanity Fair" magazine that she was shocked when she found out about her ex's relationship with Angelina Jolie. She also denies reports that their breakup might have stemmed from her reluctance to have children.

at one point, she slammed Pitt, saying he, quote, "had a sensitivity chip that was missing." And while she says the two aren't currently talking, she admits she'll always love him. During the interview, the actress cried and confessed she has felt lonely and confused, but that she's also doing very well. The issue of that "Vanity Fair" will be out August 9th and you can bet a lot of people will be buying that. Kyra, back to you.

PHILLIPS: Sibila Vargas, thank you so much.

Well, one airline is offering you the chance to stretch your legs, but it comes with a price. Susan Lisovicz has that story and check on the markets when LIVE FROM returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in the next hour: The famine in Niger. The rush to help feed millions of people that are starving in that African nation. Food is finally getting there, but it's not getting to the victims soon enough. CNN's Jeff Koinange join us live from Niger, as soon as we come back after a break. can't

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: "Now in the News."

Passengers evacuated: Last hour this American Airlines jet landed at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport. Its passengers were taken to a near-by terminal. Federal Aviation officials are blaming an electrical problem. The flight originated in Tucson, Arizona.

A big get in Iraq: Police capture a top commander of Ansar al- Sunna. That terrorist group is blamed for last year's suicide bombing at a U.S. military mess hall in Mosul. Twenty-two people died that day, including 14 U.S. troops.

Killed in combat: Six U.S. Marines die in a fire-fight with insurgents near Haditha. Another Marine form the same division is killed by a suicide car bomber. Those deaths bring to 1806, the number of U.S. forces who've died since that war in Iraq began.

A deadly collision in Raleigh, North Carolina: An Amtrak train smashes into a dump truck on the tracks. The truck driver was killed. There are also reports a passenger was in that truck, too. At least -- now we have confirmed that two people have died when those train cars derailed.

None of Amtrak's 220 passengers -- actually that's incorrect. We're getting word that two of the passengers -- is that right? Are confirmed dead now? All right. I can confirm two dead. One is the truck driver. One is a passenger. Sorry.

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