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Al Qaeda Number-Two Releases Message; NYPD Reveals Details of London Bombs

Aired August 04, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Terror tape. Bin Laden's top lieutenant with a message for Britain and America. We'll read between the lines
Random bag searches. Are they reasonable precautions or illegal violations of your rights?

Potential danger for Discovery. Will astronauts have to perform another quick fix? We'll have a NASA announcement live this hour.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

Up first this hour, fighting words from Osama bin Laden's aide du camp (ph). Ayman al-Zawahiri appears today in a new diatribe that warns the U.S. of attacks that will make 9/11 seem like nothing. He warns the U.K. of more attacks like the ones last month in London and blames those on Tony Blair's support for the war in Iraq.

Our coverage begins with CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's in our London bureau.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ayman al-Zawahiri not only blaming Tony Blair for the attacks in London but also saying that there will be more attacks to come.

And I think as we step back and analyze this latest statement by Ayman al-Zawahiri. It's his third this year. He had one in February, one in June. It's clear that he's not claiming responsibility for the attacks in London and perhaps again when we analyze it, try to get an idea of when this was recorded, was it after the July the 7th attacks that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers? Or was it recorded after the failed July 21 attacks?

He does make a reference to the attacks. But he doesn't make -- significantly, doesn't make a reference to the attack in Sharm El Sheikh, the bombing in Sharm El Sheikh in Egypt. He is, of course, Egyptian. It might be natural to expect that he would have made reference to that.

Now, the Sharm El Sheikh bombing came about 12 hours after those failed bombings in London on July the 21st, coming in the early hours of the morning of July 22 in Egypt. So perhaps reasonable here to assume or to deduce, at least, that Zawahiri, making this particular speech, after those July the 7th bombings. But, again, it's not clear.

It definitely seems to be him. It looks like him. It sounds like him. This is exactly the type of things we've heard from him before. But in all other respects, this message sounding particularly similar, if you will, to other messages from Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, that the west, that the United States and its allies, great Britain, need to get out of Muslim lands, to stop stealing their oil.

Otherwise, the attacks in Afghanistan, in Iraq against U.S. and British troops, in Washington, in the United States, New York as well, would continue. So he seems to be using the attack in London as an opportunity, perhaps, to rebroadcast a message that we've heard many times before. But quite significant, not actually claiming credit for these attacks.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, as always, experts are pouring over what al- Zawahiri said and what he didn't say and his manner and terminology. But they're also looking for clues as to when he spoke and especially where. It doesn't take a CIA analyst to notice that al-Zawahiri is a good deal grayer than in his previous vent less than two months earlier.

Our senior Arab affairs editor, Octavia Nasr, joins me now to try to read between the lines.

You know what? As we look at -- first of all, we look at those two videotapes. His look, his tone, does it look like the same person? Is that what they're saying in the Arab world?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Yes, it doesn't seem like it's a different person. It's pretty easy to see Zawahiri, when you see Zawahiri, and that is him. Even you know, intelligence experts are saying there's no doubt that this is him.

Now, the comparison is very interesting. You look at the two pictures that we had earlier. And he looks a little grayer. But, again, it's a different setting.

The tape that we saw today is something that was taped in the open air. You can see the -- there in the background, you see that background moving, with the breeze. There's a little breeze where he's at. You can see the sun shining through also on his face and on the background. He looks a bit different because he's wearing different clothes. He changed his head dress, obviously, from white to black.

PHILLIPS: Is that culturally significant?

NASR: Not really. These are his only options: black or white. Obviously, he's not going to wear a purple or red or brown head dress. So these are his only options. But we haven't seen him in a black head dress for awhile so he could be getting a new wardrobe here. He also lost the black vest, which we've seen him in, in most of the tapes that were released before, which could indicate that where he is is a bit hot.

But again, a lot of clues in this new tape. Very interesting that he would tape it in the open air. So obviously he has no worries. He has no concerns about where he's at, who's seeing him.

And again, Kyra, one other thing to note here. I mean, this is a man who has access to a camera and a camera crew. It makes you wonder, does he travel with a camera crew or wherever he goes, or wherever he is, he has access to a camera crew?

PHILLIPS: What are the interesting clues? Because he's not claiming that he was tied to the London bombings at all, right?

NASR: No.

PHILLIPS: Is it the type of thing where he's not able to operate possibly so he sees these attacks take place and he wants to try and take credit, to make it look like this is all one effort?

NASR: Well, he's not claiming responsibility. But he certainly is claiming victory. And we've seen this in al Qaeda. Late last year, they started sort of taking credit. They don't care if -- it's not like the old days where they had to claim responsibility, al Qaeda was behind this or that. That is not on their mind.

It seems that they're just basically going in, using this opportunity to speak to their supporters, perhaps hire more recruits, people are willing to pick up arms and do -- commit terror acts for them in their name.

PHILLIPS: Is he saying there are going to be more attacks? Is he giving any specifics in this tape?

NASR: He's saying there will be more attacks. He's saying that you haven't seen anything yet, that -- basically he's explaining that it is the western policies that are leading to this point.

Actually, one interesting line that I was able to pick up. He said, "Look, we gave you a truce. Remember what Sheikh Osama bin Laden told you. Pull out of the Muslim land, the land of Mohammad, and instead, you ran rivers of blood in our land, so we exploded volcanoes of angers in your land."

Basically this is -- this is old rhetoric. This is nothing new. But as I said, it's a perfect opportunity for them to make themselves heard, known, if they have sleeper cells this would be a good opportunity to wake them up.

Usually, when Zawahiri speaks, attacks follow. So experts in intelligence, officers, take these messages very seriously.

No indication -- they mentioned the U.S., Britain. There was a mention, according to Al Jazeera -- we didn't hear it, but Al Jazeera said that he mentioned Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan. You know, maybe these are targets, maybe not.

Again, al Qaeda, since late last year, started not necessarily claiming responsibility but claiming victory and saying there will be more.

PHILLIPS: Octavia Nasr, thank you so much. You bring up an interesting point about rhetoric: "volcanoes of anger," "rivers of blood," "horrors to eclipse Vietnam." Al Qaeda's flair for rhetoric is definitely undiminished, but what's the message for world leaders and first responders?

Global security expert and Harvard scholar Jim Walsh joins me now from Watertown, Massachusetts.

Jim, great to see you. And you know, it's very interesting what he doesn't say in this tape.

JIM WALSH, GLOBAL SECURITY EXPERT: Well, you know, that's right, Kyra. He says they are going to be more attacks specifically in London. Now, he says the U.S., we're coming after you. He mentions Iraq in particular, that we'll have ten of thousands of casualties in Iraq.

But he doesn't say we're going to hit the U.S. homeland. We're not going to launch an attack there. And I think that's probably because they don't have the capability to launch an attack against the United States at this moment. Al Qaeda, the organization, is somewhat on the defensive, and what they're relying on is local people in local communities, to act out on their own in these smaller attacks.

PHILLIPS: So, Jim, I want to focus on that thought. You're saying one of the positives here, he doesn't say there will be attacks in the United States. So let's go a little deeper behind that comment. Could that mean that al Qaeda is not operating here in the U.S., or if it is, it's very ineffective?

WALSH: Yes, absolutely, Kyra. I mean, as we all know, we haven't had an attack since 9/11. There have been attacks in a bunch of other countries, countries that had never previously been attacked, including Britain, Spain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia.

And what the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency has told Congress and America is that al Qaeda has changed. It's no longer an organization. It's a movement. So the organization is somewhat on the defensive, making sure it isn't getting caught. But meanwhile, you have these little groups who are thinking globally and acting locally in a perverse way by going out and sort of taking the fight on to themselves.

But the good news there is in the short term, these folks are not well trained. They're not sophisticated. They don't have a lot of resources. And they make mistakes and they get caught. That's the good news. That in the short term, they're inexperienced novices. In the long term, if they keep at it and this movement takes hold and grows, that would be a very different picture ten years out.

PHILLIPS: OK. So the positive thing that you're saying here is that you have these small groups, sort of these leaderless cells, like what we saw in London. Because obviously, Zawahiri is coming out and saying there isn't a connection there. So you have these leaderless cells, versus what we saw before the war took place in Afghanistan, and this was one man, Osama bin Laden, and all his deputies, and all his men, operating this terror network.

So that's a good sign -- I guess tell me why that's a good sign. Because you would tend to think possibly a whole bunch of leaderless cells could be more dangerous than one operation under Osama bin Laden.

WALSH: And I agree with you. Again, anytime you have an organization that shifts its character, there are going to be tradeoffs. There are certain capabilities it gains, certain capabilities it loses.

Now, as an organization, the old, let's say, pre-9/11 al Qaeda, you would be able to organize a transnational attack with lots of different people, airplane pilot training, go through a very sophisticated organizational process.

But if you're a new guy that's just joined al Qaeda in the last year, an al Qaeda-like group, inspired group, because you're mad about Iraq, well, you don't have the same level of training. You don't have the same sophistication. You're not going to be able to travel to the U.S. and execute an attack. But you might be able to throw a backpack full of explosives in a subway in your hometown.

So it means they can do -- there are more of them and that's a bad, bad thing. There are more of them. But they don't have the same capabilities and sophistication as the old al Qaeda and that's good news for now.

But, if they continue, and if this movement takes hold, those folks who are unsophisticated today, they're the second generation, will be sophisticated. The folks who graduate from colleges in Paris or London or wherever, they're going to be a tougher nut to deal with.

So a movement I think is a scary thing. In the short term, easier to deal with. In the long term, very serious.

PHILLIPS: Final thought, looking at this videotape, it's not Osama bin Laden.

WALSH: It's not Osama bin Laden. And we have not seen him in awhile. And every time we see al Zawahiri and we don't see bin Laden, we wonder where is bin Laden? Is he sick, is he dead, is he alive?

You know, you and I have talked about this since 9/11, the guessing game of "is he alive and where is he?" I think until we get hard evidence to the contrary our working assumption has to be he's alive and he's somewhere in the frontier regions between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I think that's the conventional wisdom. In this case the conventional wisdom's probably right until proven wrong.

PHILLIPS: Jim Walsh, always a pleasure, thanks, Jim.

WALSH: Thank you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And I'm being told now -- Jim, you might want to hear this also. I'm getting word now that the president in Crawford, Texas, he's actually meeting with the president of Colombia, just made these comments a few minutes ago. You're only going to hear the audio actually. He made comments with regard to this al Zawahiri tape.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First, let me say that, you know, we mourn the loss of every fallen troop, and a community outside of Cleveland, Brook Park, Ohio, suffered mightily over the last couple of days. It's -- the people of Brook Park and the family members of those who lost their life, I hope they can take comfort in the fact that millions of their fellow citizens pray for them.

I hope they also take comfort in the understanding that the sacrifice was made in a noble cause. We're laying the foundation of peace for generations to come. We're defeating the terrorists in a place like Iraq so we don't have to face them here at home.

And as well, we're spreading democracy and freedom to parts of the world that are desperate for democracy and freedom.

The comments by the No. 2 man of -- of al Qaeda make it clear that Iraq is a part of this war on terror and we're at war. In other words, he's saying, you know, leave.

As I have told the American people, one, the people like Zawahiri have an ideology that is dark, dim, backwards. They don't trust -- they don't appreciate women. They -- if you don't agree to their narrow view of a religion, you're -- you'll be whipped in the public square. That's their view. And they have tactics to help spread that view.

In other words, they've got goals. They want to spread that point of view throughout the world, starting in the broader Middle East. And part of their goal is to drive us out of the broader Middle East, precisely what this Zawahiri said. In other words, he's threatening.

See, they have come up against a nation that, one, will defend itself. Zawahiri is a part of that team that attacked us on September the 11th, 2001. He was part of an al Qaeda group that said, "Well, we'll try to achieve our objective in attacking America." They must not have understood the nature of our country.

I vowed then that we would stay on the offense against these people. We owe it to the American people and other freedom-loving countries to bring these killers to justice. And that's what they are. They're terrorists and they're killer. And they will kill innocent people, trying to get us to withdraw from the world so they can impose their dark vision on the world. That's what they're trying to do.

And the comments today by Mr. Zawahiri absolutely reinforce what I've just told you.

We will stay the course. We will complete the job in Iraq. And the job is this. We will help the Iraqis develop a democracy. They're right in the process of writing a constitution, which will be ratified in October, and then they will elect a permanent government.

It's also important for our citizens to understand that progress has been made, particularly when eight-plus million people got to vote in the face of Zawahiris and Zarqawis and these killers.

We're also training Iraqis. Our troops will come home as soon as possible. As soon as possible means when those Iraqis are prepared to fight. As Iraq stands up, our coalition will stand down.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your face your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, household goods turned into tools of terror. Disturbing new details about the methods of the London bombers.

Later on LIVE FROM, subway searches. Is opening up your bag for cops the price you pay for safety or an unconstitutional invasion? We'll debate it.

Servicemen and women giving their lives...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was already praying before I answered the door.

PHILLIPS: Military families praying a high price.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nathan was always a giver. He was never a taker. And as always, he made the ultimate sacrifice, like always.

PHILLIPS: Honoring their sacrifice, later on LIVE FROM.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Receiving word from NASA now there will not be a fourth spacewalk we are being told. Our John Zarrella is at mission control in Houston. He'll bring us more on the latest information now coming out of NASA. Once again, no spacewalk, according to NASA. It will not take on a fourth walk. We'll have more information coming up.

Two weeks after a botched second wave of London bombings, the first suspect charged in Britain went to court. He's Ismail Abdurahman, ordered held at least another week, not for trying to bomb anything, but for allegedly try to cover for someone who did. That man, Hamdi Issac, is being held in Italy, where a judge has set a closed-door extradition hearing for August 17.

And it didn't escape the notice of the NYPD that another of the July 21 London bomb suspects wore a New York sweatshirt. Investigators would like to know whether that was a symbolic gesture on Ramzi Muhammad's part or just a mere coincidence.

New York police have run afoul of Scotland Yard by publicizing some tantalizing details of the deadly attacks of 7/7. CNN's Deborah Feyerick has those.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bombs used in the July 7 attacks in London were detonated using cell phones. And they were made out of basic household materials, not high-end military explosives as investigators first believed.

New York City police officials released the details while briefing private security directors in New York City. A law enforcement source confirms investigators believe the bombers used a peroxide-based explosive called HNDT. It can be made using hydrogen peroxide, found in hair bleach; citric acid, used to keep food fresh; and heat tablets used by the military to warm food.

A law enforcement source confirms the bombers kept the materials cool, using high-end commercial refrigerators at the house in Leeds. Also, the bombers may have carried the explosives to London in coolers, stashed in the back of two cars.

A law enforcement source tells CNN the briefing was based on information gathered in part by NYPD detectives sent to London immediately after the bombings. It was shared with private security directors to increase awareness at New York hotels, Wall Street firms and storage facilities.

New York City's police commissioner told security directors the materials and methods used in London could easily be used in New York.

(on camera) A police spokesman says British authorities gave the NYPD the green light to share the information. Scotland Yard declined comment. But a British police source tells CNN it's reckless for another police force in another country to give out what's considered privileged information on an investigation being run by British agencies.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, it's not just the people getting on the trains who are being searched.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're up against a police car. We're not handcuffed. There's two armed officers standing in front of us, telling us that we can be placed in federal detention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: A couple of train buffs found themselves into hot water for just taking pictures of them. Ahead on LIVE FROM, how far the government can go in the name of security.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

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