Return to Transcripts main page
Live From...
'Taming the Beast'
Aired August 15, 2005 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kyra Phillips at CNN Center in Atlanta. We're devoting this hour of LIVE FROM to a very special and very personal look at cancer: fighting it, beating it, treating it, and avoiding it. "Taming the Beast" begins right after this word of some potentially breaking news out of Baghdad.
This is the hour, already postponed twice, that drafters of Iraq's new constitution are supposed to present their work to the national assembly or seek an authorized delay. Wire reports indicate a consensus may have been forged on the premise of leaving the most contentious sticking points for lawmakers. We'll bring you the latest whenever, however it happens.
Now our special on cancer. This disease has been a killer of humans throughout recorded history. Some of the earliest evidence dates to ancient Egypt.
Well, today, cancer is the number one killer of Americans under 85. And unlike some other deadly diseases, cancer often is a slow killer. The toll this -- or the toll it has, rather, on both on both the patient and family can be devastating.
CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the story of one cancer patient, her loving family, and their heroic battle to defeat that disease.
DENISE HAZEN, BREAST CANCER PATIENT: I did it. No. Actually, I did OK.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Denise Hazen was just 39 when she was diagnosed with Stage III breast cancer.
HAZEN: They were saying my balance is off.
GUPTA: Her battle plan: keep going, stay alive.
HAZEN: I just want to be there to experience those birthdays, the graduation, the weddings. You know? You just -- I just want to be here.
Come here, Nicholas.
GUPTA: Cancer is not the first challenge in Denise's life. Her son, Nicholas, has autism.
HAZEN: Nicholas is our little angel child, we call him. He's 8 years old.
Not those. Go to the table and get the glasses for mommy.
He does have to struggle and things are harder for him sometimes, but we're all better because of it. And that's how I approach the cancer.
What a day!
Katherine (ph) has been so terrific during this time, but yesterday was the first day that she broke down a little bit, because she does have more responsibility. And she said, "You know, this is hard on me, too, mommy." And I said, "You know what, Katherine (ph)? You're right, because I don't just have cancer, we all do. It affects the whole family."
GUPTA: And Katherine (ph) is especially at risk.
HAZEN: I have a feeling we might find some sand dollars out there.
It's frightening, because my mother-in-law was diagnosed, you know, three months after I was. So -- with breast cancer. So she has it on both sides now. She'll be very closely watched.
GUPTA: Watched very closely, because no cancer screenings are perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You look clear.
GUPTA: A tumor the size of a pea has a billion cancer cells in it. By the time doctors spotted Denise's, it was the size of a peach. And it spread to a lymph node.
If breast cancer is caught early, before it spreads, the five- year survival rate is 98 percent. That one infected lymph node drops Denise's chances to 80 percent.
Today, the family wants the latest on a new cancer therapy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A friend of mine mentioned a drug called Herceptin. What is it snv.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Herceptin is more of a biological agent. She's not...
GUPTA: Dr. Rivera (ph) says no, Denise can't take it. This new targeted drug shrinks tumors, prolonging life, but it only works with a small percentage of patients, those with a certain genetic glitch in their tumor.
That leaves traditional therapy: chemo, surgery, radiation. And for now, it's working.
HAZEN: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See you later.
HAZEN: OK. I appreciate everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no problem.
GUPTA: Denise holds on to her family and to survival.
HAZEN: This is my baby sister. I mean...
VICKI ECONOMOU, DENISE HAZEN'S SISTER: I didn't cry a whole lot. I don't know. I guess I was just holding it in. But I just had to have faith that she was going to be OK.
HAZEN: It's so surreal. They're putting this poison in my body to kill the cancer. And you -- you can feel it. It's cold.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, hers is definitely a story of courage we can all learn from. We're learning from it right now. Denise Hazen joining me from Houston, Texas.
Denise, it's wonderful to see you. You actually look fantastic. How are you feeling?
HAZEN: I'm feeling great. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Tell me what today has been like since you woke up. Tell me a typical day for you from talking and dealing with the family, to doing what you have to do for yourself.
HAZEN: Well, today was a little different with everything going on with the show. But usually, you know, I wake up at 5:30 and I go and I run. And then I get the kids ready, and we do our school thing. And then I just am a mom.
PHILLIPS: And it's just amazing. As we looked at that piece, learned about your family, learned about you, everything that you're dealing with, not only what you're dealing with physically, but even with your -- your family, where did your strength come from? You probably are asked that a number of times. But where does it truly come from?
Is it looking into the eyes of your kids? Is it sitting down and taking a deep breath and just thanking God for being alive?
HAZEN: I think that's -- that's the biggest thing for me is I'm very faithful. And that is what got me through it. I never let myself be afraid because I had faith. And I have an amazing support system, as you can tell from the show, with my family and my friends.
PHILLIPS: Well, let me ask you about that. There are so many different philosophies. How much -- looking at your situation, how much do you think survival is based, say, mental and spiritual, versus medical? HAZEN: I think the mental and the spiritual take a very large role. I think if I would of just sat in my bed day in, day out, and just, you know, "Woe is me" and felt sorry for myself, I think my survival, I don't know if it would have been less, but it would have been much more difficult to get through this.
PHILLIPS: Do your doctors talk to you about that part, about the mental and even spiritual part? I know a lot of various universities are now teaching classes about the power of prayer and spirituality in one's life when they're dealing with something like cancer.
HAZEN: Well, I had a beautiful book that somebody that I met -- one day we were both having blood taken and preparing for our chemo, and she gave me a book. And it was "Everyday Prayers for Cancer Patients." And it really did help me get through.
PHILLIPS: Is there a page? Is there a thought? Is there a prayer that you can think of that maybe goes over -- that you go over and over in your mind every day?
HAZEN: Well, "In low I am with you always." I mean, that always gave me so much strength, because I knew, you know, I can do this. I can make -- I can make it through.
PHILLIPS: Now your family. Even just hearing some of the things that your daughter said to you, it's heartbreaking. How do you talk to your children about this? And I hope you don't mind if I ask you this, but do you ever talk about death? Do you ever talk about the "what ifs"?
HAZEN: You know, we don't talk about the "what ifs," because I don't know, just like nobody else does. I mean, I could walk out the door today and get hit by a truck.
Who knows if cancer is going to be the death of me, but we were always very honest with the children, especially Katherine (ph), from the beginning. I mean, she knew when I was going in for my biopsy. And when she came home from school that day, that was probably the hardest thing I had to do was to tell her that, yes, I do have cancer, because all that children know is that, oh, cancer, in all the movies, everybody always dies.
And I told her, "You know, I'm at a great place. I have amazing doctors. And we're fighters."
PHILLIPS: Denise, do you find that your family treats you differently now? And do you find yourself treating your family differently?
HAZEN: Well, I think we really try to take, you know, a moment to really appreciate each other. And when things kind of start to get out of hand, I just say, "Hey, guys, we need to be thankful. We need to take a step back and say, 'We are so lucky.'"
PHILLIPS: Denise Hazen, you are extremely lucky. Your whole family is lucky to have you. HAZEN: I am.
PHILLIPS: You're such an incredible...
HAZEN: Oh, you're so sweet.
PHILLIPS: ... role model. No doubt. I think you so much for your time today. Appreciate it.
HAZEN: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: We'll be following your progress.
HAZEN: OK. Great.
PHILLIPS: All right, Denise.
HAZEN: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, as we move on this hour, e-mail us with your questions, please, about cancer. An oncologist from Emory University is going to answer some of them live this hour. The address, once again, is LIVEFROM@CNN.com..
You can also give us a call. Here's the phone number: 404-221- 1855.
Well, releasing a virus in your brain doesn't sound like a good thing. But it could save this man's life. His amazing story and the latest cancer killer, the smart bomb, next on this special edition of LIVE FROM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ECONOMOU: I'm here at MD Anderson because my sister Denise has been diagnosed with breast cancer. I really want to tell everybody how proud I am of my sister. She is facing a really hard battle, and she is facing it with the most positive attitude of any person I've ever seen. My sister is my hero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As soon as I just get my hair back, which I'm getting back right now, I'll be losing it again. But you know what? That's just fine. I'll be here in 10 years. I'll be here in 20 years. Inch by inch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, it sounds like science fiction, but it's a new high-tech weapon in the fight against the deadliest form of brain cancer. The treatment has been successful in tests only on mice. And now one man hopes the procedure will bring him a new lease on life.
Our Senior Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta spoke to Allan Lusky about his disease and a potentially revolutionary treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alan, you break the glass...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Judaism, when you break the glass, it means whatever happens in your life, there's some shattering.
GUPTA (voice over): For Allan and Nancy Lusky, life shattered with the diagnosis, brain cancer. Cancer has not been kind nor gentle to Allan Lusky. Parts of his brain ripped away.
Nobody knew then, but Allan had the deadliest form of brain cancer you can get, malignant glioblastoma, Stage IV. He had a year, if he was lucky.
To buy time, Allan quickly entered a clinical trial. Out of 13 patients, one lucky survival.
ALLAN LUSKY, CANCER PATIENT: Me.
GUPTA: Two years ago, Dr. Fred Lang removed some of the cancer. But now he may have found a better way to destroy Allan's tumor.
Dr. Lang and Dr. Juan Fueo (ph) have developed a viral therapy, code name Delta 24. It's one of a new generation of targeted therapies, the very latest in man's arsenal against cancer. It's called a smart bomb.
DRR. FRED LANG, DEVELOPED CANCER "SMART BOMB": It was called smart because it could distinguish tumor cells from normal cells. So it wasn't just, you know, something that was going to injure everything.
It's a bomb in the sense that it can explode within a cell. So the virus enters the cell, increases its numbers, replicates it, and then essentially blows up that cell to release more virus into the environment.
GUPTA (on camera): Me?
(voice over): At least that's what they hope will happen. So far, the smart bomb has only been successfully detonated in mice.
Allan is willing to give Delta 24 a try.
LUSKY: Once you have cancer, you get rid of it two ways. One, if they find a cure, and, two, is when you die. Until one of those two things happen, you have cancer.
GUPTA: Allan Lusky prays he's alive to see his daughter get married and his grandchild born. No one knows if time is on his side.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, most people want to know two things when diagnosed with cancer, what their chances and their options are. Dr. Otis Brawley is an oncologist at Emory University in Atlanta. He's joining me to answer your questions right now.
What a pleasure to have you.
DR. OTIS W. BRAWLEY, ONCOLOGIST, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Thank you very much.
PHILLIPS: Well, and I asked you during the break what inspired you to go into this type of medicine, and it was -- it was your father. He had lung cancer, right?
BRAWLEY: That's right. That's right.
PHILLIPS: And you were in medical school at the time that you found out?
BRAWLEY: Right. Just about the time when people start developing their interests and decide what they want to do, my father had and ultimately died from what's called an adenocarcinoma of the lung. And dealing with him, dealing with the doctors who took care of him, dealing with the doctors in medical school who were my teachers, who were taking care of me, it's actually very much why I developed an interest in medical oncology.
PHILLIPS: Did you have the chance to tell your father before he passed, "I'm going to make it my mission to try and help people that are going through exactly what you're going through, dad?"
BRAWLEY: Not in those words. But we did talk about it, yes.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's get right to the e-mails...
BRAWLEY: Sure.
PHILLIPS: ... because we are getting, as you can imagine, a lot of questions from viewers.
This first one is from Donna in Buffalo, New York.
She says, "What is it about the heart that seems to defy cancer infiltration? Every other organ seems vulnerable, but cancer of the heart is rarely found. I have wondered about this for years and have yet been able to hear an answer."
BRAWLEY: It's a very intriguing question, and she's right on target. There is such a thing as a sarcoma of the heart. We see it very rarely. We see it even rarer than we see other sarcomas, which are muscle tumors. The heart, of course, is a muscle.
It is something inherent within the genetics of the heart and within the genetics of muscle that they are less likely to become malignant than some organs, such as the lung, the colon, the prostate or the breast. We don't know why. Great question. There are researchers trying to answer that question right now.
PHILLIPS: Speaking of research, what about all of these experimental drugs that have been used? Sanjay even talked about some of them in his special. It's working for some individuals, but, of course, they're not for everybody.
How do you, as a doctor, address an experimental drug with a patient? Because it's probably a tremendous risk...
BRAWLEY: Well, you know, the risk to the patient is not that great, it turns out. Most of these drugs have already been developed in the animal models. We know a great deal about these drugs already before they come to humans.
The drugs that in clinical trials that we are encouraging people to go into, that we have a shortage of people going into, are really drugs that are already tested in humans. So we know what the safety is, but we don't know what the direct usage should be.
For example, is drug A really a good drug in breast cancer, or is drug B better? Both have been used in breast cancer, but maybe drug B is better than drug A or A is better than B. And those comparison- type studies are the ones we have a tremendous shortage of people going into the trials.
PHILLIPS: Interesting. You'd think that so many people would want to give it a try.
BRAWLEY: Sometimes people are very frightened of clinical trials, don't understand exactly what they are all about. They think of themselves as being guinea pigs, being tested upon.
It's very different. It's very safe. Very frequently people going into a clinical trial are actually getting better medicine than people who are getting standard treatment.
PHILLIPS: Wow. That's great advice. I just learned something tremendous right there.
OK. This other e-mail is coming in. Don't have a name actually on this one, but here is the question.
"My grandfather had colon cancer, great uncle had lung cancer on my father's side, and my grandmother had leukemia, grandfather had lung cancer on my mother's side. How likely is it that I will get cancer when I get older?"
BRAWLEY: Well, I can't answer the specific question for that individual, but in terms of family history and cancer, there are a couple of families that have certain genetic predepositions from cancer. We talk about p53 or the Li-Fraumeni gene. Those are people their families tend to have a number of different cancers.
Then there are individuals who have breast cancer and have mutations and what is called the BRACA 1 or BRACA 2 gene. And those families will have a history of breast cancer. The most important thing that I can say to anyone is, don't really worry as much about the genetics as you do worry about other health concerns. For example, lung cancer, 90-plus percent of individuals who develop lung cancer are smokers. We have one very important individual who was recently diagnosed who is a nonsmoker, but the majority of people who develop lung cancer are smokers.
So avoid smoking to avoid lung cancer.
Increase the amount of fruit and fiber in the diet to five to nine servings of fruit and fiber in the diet every day to decrease one's risk of colon cancer. Not decrease it to zero, but decrease it considerably.
Healthy habits can actually help to ward off cancer. We can't change an individual's genes, but we can change the environment to which those genes are exposed.
PHILLIPS: Now, I'll tell you, my doctor is big on tofu. He even wrote -- he wrote a whole cookbook on that.
I'll tell you what, will you stay here with me?
BRAWLEY: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: OK. We'll talk more about diet and exercise and we'll get into the mental aspect, and we'll take more e-mail. Sound good?
BRAWLEY: Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
PHILLIPS: Thank you so much.
Well, the hard-driving life of a doctor in the fast lane climbing the ladder of success, until cancer made him see what really matters. Next on this special edition of LIVE FROM, the war on cancer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, cancer can strike people from all walks of life, even the doctors who treat it. Take, for instance, Dr. Martin Raber. He was at the top of his career when his battle against cancer turned personal.
CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta talked to the doctor about his fight and how it changed his perspective on cancer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice over): Ten years ago, Dr. Martin Raber was on one side of the war on cancer as chief of physicians at MD Anderson.
DR. MARTIN RABER, CANCER SURVIVOR: I was arguably at the top of my game. OK? I was physician-in-chief at MD Anderson, I was doing a lot of very interesting studies in oncology.
GUPTA (on camera): You were on this upward trajectory like a rocket it sounds like here at MD Anderson.
RABER: I was doing well.
GUPTA: You were doing well.
RABER: I was doing well.
GUPTA (voice over): Then cancer almost killed him. Dr. Raber had lymphoma, a rare cancer of the blood. His prognosis poor. At home, four children and a frightened wife.
DR. ADELE RABER, MARTIN RABER'S WIFE: It was very scary because, of course, his disease does not have a cure rate. There was a lot of fear and how am I going to make this all work out? How are we going to take care of the kids and take care of Marty?
M. RABER: I can remember being on gurneys a lot, particularly when I was really ill. Your time is spent in waiting rooms. Your time is spent with clerks.
I took Interferon for two years, which is not a drug that I would particularly wish on people. And I re-oriented my career away from patient care. I had big-time doctor-patient confusion.
I couldn't decide if I was the patient or the doctor. You know, I didn't practice medicine for about four or five years. Then I was -- one time I was really sick, I was on the sofa for a year.
GUPTA: His recovery took five years. And when he came back to work...
M. RABER: Hi, Aaron (ph). How are you? Good to see you.
GUPTA: ... it was for the patients.
M. RABER: Tell me how you're feeling. How is your pain?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's probably about a two or something.
M. RABER: I interacted differently with the patients, and I had a different sense than the other physicians with me about where the patient was and about what that patient needed to hear. I don't think I have to tell a patient every time I see them, "Hey, you know, you're going to die of this disease soon." But I have to tell them once. And I have to have that discussion. We have to lock eye contact, and I have to know that they got it on some level.
GUPTA (on camera): How important is it for you as a doctor to give a patient a few more months of life?
M. RABER: It's always the same question: at what price? One of my patients a couple of months ago said to me, "Dr. Raber, you're just trying to buy time for me." I said, "Of course, that's what I do for a living, I buy time for people."
GUPTA: Would it be fair to say that we've done a lot towards -- towards improving the quality of life that's left?
M. RABER: Tremendous.
GUPTA: And not as much towards the quantity?
M. RABER: Looking in the population as a whole, at the big numbers, that's probably true.
Lots of small victories. But we haven't won the war. And for the people who enjoy the small victories, like me and my illness, it's really great. But for the vast majority of patients who die of their disease, not a whole lot has changed. When you treat cancer all day, you know, you win a lot, you lose a lot, and you're humbled by the disease.
GUPTA (voice over): While cancer robs its victims, Dr. Raber found it can also give something back.
M. RABER: After you've had serious illness, you think about life a lot differently and you appreciate life a lot more. And in many ways, life is better.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Dr. Otis Brawley is still with us here from Emory University. E-mail us with your questions at CNN.com -- actually, the address is LIVEFROM@cnn.com. I apologize. And we'll be able to take your questions directly to the doctor.
Also straight ahead, an adorable face in unbearable pain. Little Ali Krauski's (ph) story will stay with you no doubt forever. Her doctor joins us next when this special edition of LIVE FROM continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we select the patients that are going forward.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to be there to experience those birthdays the graduation, the weddings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hadn't given up hope and it had reoccurred. And I still haven't given up hope.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say, you got to stay alive long enough so if this doesn't work, we're going to have something else around the corner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, what do I have if I don't have hope?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lots of small victories, but we haven't won the war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR; I'm Kyra Phillips at CNN Center in Atlanta. We're devoting this hour of LIVE FROM to a special and very personal look at cancer. Fighting it, beating it, treating it, living with it and avoiding it. "Taming the Beast" begins right after this word of some potentially breaking news out of Baghdad.
This is the hour, already postponed twice, that drafters of Iraq's new constitution are supposed to present their work to the National Assembly or seek an authorized delay. Wire reports indicate a consensus may have been forged on the premise of leaving the most contentious sticking points for lawmakers. We'll bring you the latest, whenever, however it happens.
Now our special on cancer. This disease has been a killer of humans throughout recorded history. Some of the earliest evidence dates to ancient Egypt. Well, today, cancer is the number one killer of Americans under 85, and unlike some other deadly diseases, cancer often is a slow killer.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
