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Rescue Operations Suspended Due to Security Issues; Stranded Hurricane Victims Dying in New Orleans; Officials Face Chaos, Lack of Communication

Aired September 01, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, ANCHOR: The big news out of the news conference, President Bush will head to the Gulf Coast tomorrow. He'll go to Mobile, Alabama, and he'll take an aerial tour of the New Orleans area.
Also meeting later today with former presidents Bush and Clinton, asking them to fill a similar role as they did after the tsunami and raise private donations to help those in desperate need along the Gulf Coast.

That is going to do it for me. I'm Daryn Kagan. I toss it now to New York City and my colleague, Kyra Phillips -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Daryn, than you so much. We'll continue the coverage here. We actually want to get straight to Rick Sanchez. He's in New Orleans. He's been assessing not only what is taking place, within the past couple of days, but what's happening right now at the moment, from the looting to the rescues to the security issues taking place.

Rick Sanchez, joining us now by phone. I understand you're in the suburb of Metairie. Is that correct, Rick?

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's correct. We're just outside of Sam's Club, Kyra, where people have been waiting in an interminable line, but for the most part well behaved as they wait patiently to try and get some meals ready to eat that have been supplied by the military, and also some water, so that they can have some sustenance to get them through these most difficult times.

The big issue seems to be the people who are still stuck, stranded if you will, in some of those homes around Orleans Parish, and parts of New Orleans and Jefferson Parish. Calling out for help in many cases, and that help has arrived, but not in the numbers that is necessary, at least not to meet the demands of all the people that are out there.

We went out there last night, as a matter of fact, with the swift water rescue teams, that were just deployed yesterday, as a matter of fact, from California. We got a chance to go out with them. And through the night, we went out on a boat and what we saw was almost unimaginable.

Obviously, there are still some corpses in the water. We asked officials why those weren't being recovered. They said, "Our priority right now is to deal with the living." And there certainly are a lot of people who need help.

We went to a place where we saw a -- as we got -- our boat approached to a home, and we saw an elderly woman screaming out the window to us that she wanted to get out. And as we came closer, she said, "You know what? Come back tomorrow for me. Get my neighbor. She has babies."

It turns out we then focused our attention next door, and we heard screams coming out of the house. And there with children's voices. We contacted the rapid water, swift water rescue teams and they were able to go out there. They found 15 people in that home alone.

Kyra, it's one story after another, one home after another. There are a lot people out there, still, literally, trapped in their homes. They can't get out. And they're running out of water, and they're running out of food. And it's a very difficult situation.

And now it's compounded by what we're hearing and what I can report that I have been told by FEMA officials and some of the swift water rescue operators themselves.

Early this morning, I went to FEMA offices, where I was at the New Orleans headquarters, where they're gathering, and I was told that they were about to have a meeting where they were considering rescue operations, at least the rescue operations because it's just too dangerous for rescue officials to go out there. After all, they're not police officers. They're not armed. They're essentially paramedics.

And this morning I was told they were considering ceasing operations. But I just returned there a while ago and I talked to some of the individuals involved in the search and rescue from California, and I asked them why they were not deployed, that they were supposedly scheduled to go out again this morning.

And they told me, "We're standing down. We've been told that we can't go out there until we get some guards or someone who's armed or some kind of protection with us, because it's just too dangerous," which is really an unfortunate situation.

Because the area that we went with them on last night, Kyra, we did not find people violent. We found people who were just desperate to get out. But because there are such huge hot spots in New Orleans right now where there is serious violence, serious looting, and serious problems, the actions of those are affecting many of the other people in New Orleans.

And even the police officers in this area where I am now, around Jefferson parish, and some of those rescue operators, who I talked to this morning, they're frustrated. They say, "We're here to help. We're here to rescue. We want to get out there and do the job." But right now it appears they're being told to stand down.

PHILLIPS: Yes, Rick, you bring up a very valid point with regard to the police officers. I mean, I used to work in this city. I knew a lot of those police officers. I still do. I've had a chance to talk to some of them.

And they have said, "Look, you know we've dealt with some of the worst crime in this city. And right now, so many of us feel helpless. And that we can't do our jobs. We've never seen anything like this. And we can't even begin to describe the security issue."

So we'll continue to stay on that, Rick, with you. Continue to check in with us, please.

We want to go over to Chris Lawrence. He's also in New Orleans. And I want to warn our viewer right now, Chris is actually outside the convention center, an area that's basically becoming a makeshift morgue.

You know, as the police, military and others involved in the rescue effort are combing through the debris and dealing with these high waters, of course they're coming across dead bodies, more and more. The mayor coming forward yesterday, as you know, saying it looks like thousands of people may be dead, within this devastation. You can just imagine that number will probably continue to rise, minute by minute, as more bodies are discovered.

Let's go to Chris Lawrence, take into account that warning, please, about the images you're about to see. And Chris, just describe to us the situation there at the convention center downtown.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to describe. It's something I never could conceive of ever seeing in a major city like New Orleans. It is hard to believe, you know, this is New Orleans, Louisiana, we're talking about.

We spent the last few hours at the convention center, where there are thousands of people just laying in the street. They have nowhere to go. These are mothers. We saw mothers. We talked to mothers holding babies. I mean, some of these babies, 3, 4, 5 months old, living in these horrible conditions. Putrid food on the ground, sewage, their feet sitting in sewage. We saw feces on the ground. It is -- these people are being forced to live like animals.

And you know, when you look at some of these mothers, your heart just breaks. We're not talking about a few families or a few hundred families, thousands and thousands of people gathered around the convention center.

I want to warn you, I mean, some of these images that you will see, they're very, very graphic. But people need to see this. The people down there have been down there for days, and people need to see what it is really like down here.

We saw dead bodies. People are dying at the convention center, and there's no one to come get them. We saw an older woman, someone's mother, someone's grandmother in a wheelchair, her dead body pushed up against the side of the convention center, with a blanket over it. Right on the ground next to her, another dead body, wrapped in a white sheet. People are literally dying. Right in front of us as we were watching this, a man went into a seizure on the ground. It looked like he was dying. People tried to prop his head up. No one has medical training. No ambulance can come. There's nowhere to evacuate him to.

It is just heart breaking that these people have been sitting there, without food, without water, waiting for these buses to take them away. And they keep asking us, "When are the buses coming? When are the buses coming?"

And you just have to say, "I don't know. I really don't know."

PHILLIPS: Chris, I -- we just saw the image, as you were talking about, the dead bodies. And the grandmother in the wheelchair, and the dead bodies underneath those blankets. It's horrifying to see this.

And obviously, I can hear in your voice this is not an easy thing to cover or deal with.

As we look at these pictures, and we're seeing these dead bodies, do you get a sense at all, Chris, that -- I mean, is anything getting through with regard to food or water? I mean, is any -- where are -- where are the supplies? I mean, we've been talking so much about food and water being dispatched. But, I mean, are there absolutely no trucks getting in to New Orleans at all?

LAWRENCE: They say that there have been National Guard units have come by, tossed some MREs out, very little, here and there. People have been eating potato chips that they can scrounge up, looting some of the stores that are nearby, for food and water, for juice, for drinks. Not the kind of food that you need to feed these thousands of people.

What these people are saying basically is, "Give us some water, give us some food. Don't leave us here to die. Or get us out of here." They're saying, "We're stuck here. We can't leave. They don't send the buses. They won't take us out of here. And yet they won't come in with truck loads of water and food to feed us."

And you've got sick people there, old people there, these young babies there. And they're saying, "What are they going to do? Are they going to leave us here to die?"

PHILLIPS: And obviously, we've been seeing the frustration on the faces, people getting angry, people getting really emotional. Some stuff you just fed in, Chris. We want to just take a listen here, for a minute. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been here 24 hours...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two days with no food. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't see how a bus can't pick somebody up, they're standing there in the street. How a bus can't pick nobody up! You got these people line up, where the policemen at? Where the National Guard at to deal with all this? Yes, tell the buses will come. It's been three hours now. No buses. They have 14 buses last night. And they won't let us...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, children are here. This is ridiculous. I slept on the bridge for three days straight, no food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Chris, as we listen to that and see these pictures, can you tell me, are these individuals angry at the media? Are they just wanting to get their voice heard in some way? Are they getting angry with each other?

You know, kind of give me a sense for what it is, besides desperately needing food and water. I mean, you see -- you see people fighting with each other, and is it because they're fighting for the supplies? They're just getting so frustrated, they don't know, you know, how to handle the coverage and the cameras?

LAWRENCE: It's -- what it is, like any large group, it's a different story for everyone. You've got some young guys in there who drink a lot during the day. They get drunk. And at night, they fight. It's violent.

They said, as bad as that looked during the day, everyone was telling us, it's five to 10 times worse at night. People have been trampled at night. Fights break out constantly.

And -- but then you've got other people who just say, please, just help us. You've got other people who are extremely angry with the mayor, with officials, wondering why there wasn't a better plan to help them and what's going to be done now.

A lot of these people have been telling me, "You know, we haven't heard anything. You know what is going to be done now? OK, you can't go back and change what happened before, but what's going to be done now? We can't wait another three days. We can't spend another three nights out here."

And a lot of folks were just telling me they're so close to the end of their rope. There are a few people who are really trying the best they can to lift people's spirits and keep people calm. But there's no one in charge, Kyra. There's no one walking through, with a bull horn, or no officials saying, "Hey, here's our plan. Hey, here's what we'll try to do for you. Hey, everybody remain calm." No one is in charge there. It is just a complete free for all.

PHILLIPS: Why? Why is no one in charge? I mean, obviously everybody -- from the city officials to the mayor, I mean, they have a lot on their minds. They have a lot they have to deal with. But I find it hard to comprehend and even living in this city and knowing how incredible that police department is. I mean, if you look at Mardi Gras and Jazz Fest. I mean, they are experts in security and keeping the peace.

You know, there's got to be someone that can step up and do some sort of organization. Is it because people just cannot get around? They can't communicate? What is it that is contributing to that failure of someone leading the troops? Because I know there are people there that are trained to help in situations like this.

LAWRENCE: Oh, yes, everything that you mentioned. You know, parts of New Orleans are dry. You can be driving down the street and it's dry. And then all of a sudden, it's ankle deep water, and a block later it's knee deep, or waist deep. And you go a few blocks down and water is up to a first floor ceiling. So there are parts of New Orleans that are just completely sealed off.

And then you've got the violence. As we were leaving the convention center, it was not violent near the convention center when we were there, but we went to another neighborhood because there were police cars flying just by at a high rate. And it turns out that, you know, we came to a building and a scene were shooting at the police. I mean, the police were crouched down behind their cars with their shotguns raised. They had two guys on the ground who they say had shot at them.

So it is very, very tough for these police officers to coordinate what's going on between the flooding, between getting shot at, and not having the best communication. I mean, they don't have cell phones. You know, they're using, you know, whatever -- two-way communication they can do. But they're at a loss, too, in terms of communication.

As to why no leader has really stepped up to address the problem at the convention center, I don't know. I mean, here on the street, it's hard for us to get that kind of information. We're kind of like the people there; we don't have a lot of communication. We're here on the street with them. We don't really have a lot of access to the higher ups, so to speak.

But that is a question. And I think that is something that people in a high-ranking position need to be made aware of this problem at the convention center. Because it's just horrifying the way these families are really being forced to live like animals.

PHILLIPS: Chris I understand we've got some fresh video that you've sent in, again, racked up with some natural sound. Let's go ahead and roll that and take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want help! We want help! We want help! We want help!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want help! We want help! We want help! We want help!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want help! We want help! We want help! We want help! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really need some help. We really need some help. We got babies out here. I got three kids that need water, milk...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bottles. They don't have nothing. Newborn baby, premature baby, everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS; Chris, as I listen to these -- these families, I'm thinking back to 9/11 and remember when people just started walking, just hit the street, hit the bridges, they left New York, they were walking out of the city, literally, not staying and moving.

Can these people get out? Let's say they decide, "Look, we're not getting any help. We don't have anything here to sustain us. Let's start walking."

LAWRENCE: The only difference, Kyra, is that in 9/11, the damage was confined basically to the World Trade Center area. Once you got out of that area, New York was functioning as any city would. New Jersey, Long Island, the Bronx, Brooklyn, all still functioning.

Here, it's a matter of where do you walk out to? I mean, you've probably got to go 40 -- I'm just guessing, 40 to 50 miles to get gas out of New Orleans. Forty to 50 miles to get supplies. You know, it's probably not possible for these people to walk that far. You know, they could get out of downtown. They could get out of some of these bridges.

But even then, with the flooding, you know, you're taking a real chance that the water level starts to change, you know, you get trapped in a certain area and there's just no way out. But we have seen that. You know, when I was coming in yesterday, coming across the bridge, I saw mothers carrying their children, walking, trying to basically walk out of the city.

And I stopped one, and I was talking to her. I only had a couple bottles of water. I gave one to her. And, you know, I asked her, "Where are you going?"

And she said, "I don't know. Anywhere but here."

PHILLIPS: Are you -- are you getting the feeling, Chris, that the Department of Homeland Security needs to say, "This is just not working. What we're trying to do and what we're coming forward and talking about with regard to responding to this disaster is just not enough. We need more help?"

And do you get the sense that they need to call on the military and say, "Look, we need -- we need more. We need more military and more active troops to step in and help. Because obviously, we cannot handle this"? LAWRENCE: I would say, from my point of view, yes. But I'm -- you know, again, we're right here on the street. We see what we can see, from our area. It's hard for me to talk about what's going on across the entire city and all the challenges that the police and some of the officials are facing.

I don't -- I can't really know that for sure. And I don't want to -- I wouldn't want to condemn them without knowing the entire story. But I can say, just from my perspective, seeing the way these families are living, something has to change today. Not in a couple days, not after a lot of meetings, not after plans get put together. Something concrete has to change today or those bodies are going to continue to pile up at the convention center.

PHILLIPS: Chris Lawrence, pretty unbelievable reporting. And what we're hearing, just -- really just takes us to a whole other level. And Chris has been bringing some disturbing pictures to us, too, of the dead there, outside the convention center. Also a lot of sound, very frustrated people there, in New Orleans.

Let's listen in to the -- another stream of video here that Chris was just able to bring to us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live, man!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to get outer hoop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to get out of New Orleans.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: More frustrated, angry people there in downtown New Orleans. You even saw it look like medics trying to work on a guy there as his friends were saying, "Don't give up; don't give up."

We've shown the disturbing pictures of even the dead humped over in wheelchairs and covered by blankets outside the convention center. You do wonder, at what point does DHS, Department of Homeland Security, need to ask for more help? You see these pictures. And you wonder why you're not seeing more food, more water, more response, more boots on the ground, coming in and assessing the situation and helping.

Well, the federal government's post-Katrina command center, we are told now, is up and running in Baton Rouge. CNN's Deborah Feyerick is there.

And Deborah, maybe you can help me answer some of those questions. The command center up and running. Tell me what exactly they're doing there and do you get a sense that, somehow, more help will be on the way to New Orleans? It's the first time we've seen those disturbing pictures, actually, of dead bodies lying on the street.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The pictures, Kyra, are very disturbing. And that is a good question. Right now, officials here, their main goal, their top priority is simply to restore order to the city of New Orleans. One state senator told us, you can't go in and rescue people when, in fact, you're being shot at.

There are hundreds of people from the National Guard here. We've seen people from all different agencies. They're waiting to deploy. But the sense is that the condition inside New Orleans is so unstable they don't want to be sending people into harm's way.

The question is, well, isn't that the job of the military? Why aren't they bringing in convoys and caravans of foods? Some state officials have been getting into the center of town. One of them, for example, with a bus. And that official told me that, in fact, they were able to take a couple of people out.

And one woman so desperate that she actually handed up her 2- month-old baby and said, "Take my child. I can't get on this bus, but you've got to try to save this child." She didn't even know the woman's name, but she gave it to her. The woman promised her that she would, in fact, be taking care of that baby.

Now I asked the lieutenant governor, I said was this evacuation plan the right evacuation plan? Because after 9/11, as you know, DHS ordered all states, ordered all cities, to put together emergency preparedness plans, and also evacuation plans. And they threw a lot of money at cities and states so that these plans would be in place.

Well, the lieutenant governor says that he really believes that New Orleans and the Louisiana evacuation plan was, in fact, the right plan. He points to the fact that the majority of people did get out and says that those who didn't chose to stay.

But there's also the wild card, the wild card being the people who didn't have the money, the people who didn't have the cars and those who just thought -- people were -- it was the old syndrome, get out, get out, get out, and they with tired. They were numb to all the warnings that never seemed to materialize.

The lieutenant governor told me that resources right now has been the biggest challenge. They have lost all communication with people on the ground who are doing assessments. And so it is very difficult. He said that it was almost like being an Indian scout. He had to run out into the field, get information, bring it back to the command center.

And right now the command center trying to figure out exactly how to deploy all the resources that they have gathered here. It has been three days. They believe that that has been an adequate enough response to get folks from elsewhere all over the country here into Louisiana.

I mean, you've got teams from New York. You've got sheriffs coming in from all over the country. You've got the NYPD, the FDNY. You've got urban search and rescue teams, all of them who are ready and waiting to do the job, and trying to do the best job they can.

But, you know, he really said they've got no cells. They've got no radios. They've got no way to communicate. And for all we know, at least for the majority of officials, these pictures that CNN is running may, in fact, be the very first pictures that everybody who is here are seeing.

I did overhear one conversation about the buses, the buses that are supposed to be taking those people from the Superdome and perhaps transporting them to the Astrodome. And the conversation that I heard was that they're actually going to put armed guards on those buses so that they can get through and then bring those people out. But we don't know the timetable on that.

Believe it or not, it is very difficult to get information here. We're just stopping people, pulling people as they come out the door. On the way here, we saw a different emergency vehicle. We were rolling down our windows and asking them question: where are you going? What are you doing? Are you going to restore power? Are those girders going to be used to reinforce some of the bridges that have been washed out?

I mean, that's how we're getting our information right now. There's a tight control over what is and is not going out. But the big question -- and you're right, people have focused so much on trying to get those people away from the Superdome. But the question is, bring in food. And that's hopefully a question that we're going to pull some more people over and ask them.

PHILLIPS: You know, Deborah, you brought up a really good point, addressing the -- people asking, "Well, why didn't you just leave? The mayor came out, gave a warning. A lot of people said, came forward and said this is going to be a horrible hurricane. You know, get out."

But you bring up a very good point, that -- I mean, I remember living in New Orleans and even coming through Baton Rouge and other parts of this state, I mean, there's a tremendous -- I mean, the poverty level is pretty unbelievable. And there's a lot of housing developments. And there are a lot of poor areas.

And you bring up a great point. Whether the mayor said you've got to go or not, I mean, these are individuals that don't have the finances to be able to do that or the resources to be able to do that. So a lot of people that we're looking at right now are individuals that have already been struggling and having a hard time, and now they truly have nowhere to go and no money and no resources.

FEYERICK: Absolutely. And I asked a question as to, you know, how those people, the people who didn't have the money to get out, whether, in fact, any provisions were made. I didn't get a satisfactory answer in terms of whether buses were brought in.

Remember, though, that this storm came fast upon New Orleans and came fast upon Louisiana. So they really tried to get the word out to a number of people. The question is: did they have that secondary plan? Did they have that plan to try to help the weak and the elderly? It is a big trek, you know, to try to get yourself out of there if you're sick or you're ill.

And if the storm, then, doesn't hit, it's much ado about nothing. The problem is, it did hit. It was bigger than anyone expected. It was slower than anyone expected, which meant it dumped more rain. But the question is, those folks, the ones who couldn't get out, what provisions were made for them -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Deb Feyerick, there in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Deb, thank you so much.

And we are getting word that DHS, the secretary, Mike -- or Chertoff, Michael Chertoff, will be addressing the nation coming up, hopefully within the next 10 to 15 minutes. So we are hoping that he will take questions from various reporters and other people there about -- about this response and about the fact that we are seeing some horrendous pictures.

It doesn't seem to be getting better at all. The death toll rising. Now we're actually seeing dead bodies on the side of the streets there in New Orleans, Louisiana, just outside the convention center.

So the question is, where is -- how far will Chertoff go? And will he ask for more help? And will he ask the U.S. military for more help with regard to responding to this disaster?

Because as you can hear from reporters and you can see on the streets there of New Orleans and other part of Louisiana, Mississippi, there are people dying, and they're not getting the help that they need.

Some tough questions need to be asked of the head of the Department of Homeland Security. And wondering if, indeed, these city and state officials can handle what is happening in places like New Orleans, where people are dying. They're not getting food, water, medical attention. And now for the first time, we are seeing pictures, very disturbing pictures, of dead bodies actually on the side of the street.

Our continuing coverage on the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina continues. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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