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Chief Justice Rehnquist's Casket to be Moved to Washington's St. Matthew's Cathedral

Aired September 07, 2005 - 13:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We want to take you to a very unique live picture right now. As the Supreme Court justices pay their last respects, of course, to their chief, William Rehnquist, who passed away. The flag-draped wooden coffin, as you can see here, of Justice Rehnquist has been lying in repose at the Supreme Court, whereas, you know, he presided for nearly two decades. Right now, the justices bowing in prayer.
Among the pallbearers, you may remember from yesterday, who brought the casket into the court here, John Roberts, the man that Bush has nominated to replace Rehnquist as chief justice, as you know.

From here, the coffin will make its way to St. Matthew's Cathedral in Washington, and the services will be conducted there by Reverend Dr. George Evans Jr. and Reverend Jeff Wilson of the Lutheran Church of Holy Redeemer, Mclean, Virginia.

Also, the reverend Jan Lookingbill from Emmanuel Lutheran Church, which Rehnquist attended when he lived in Bethesda, Maryland, will also participate in that service.

We're also told that welcoming remarks will be provided by Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, archbishop of Washington, as you know. Rehnquist died Saturday at his home in Arlington, after battling thyroid cancer. He was 80 years old. Let's listen in for a moment

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.

Let us pray, Almighty God, we give you thanks for the life of Chief Justice William Hubbs Rehnquist. As he prepares to leave this building on his final journey, we pray for all of those who have worked with him, served with him, loved him, cared for him. We thank you for the role that he has played in our lives. His influence among us. We pray for all of those who are in this court. We pray your blessings among them. Now let us go in peace in the name of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Amen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I lift up my eyes to the hills. From where is my help to come? My help comes from the Lord, the maker of Heaven and Earth. He will not let your foot be moved. And he who watches over you will not fall asleep. Behold, he who keeps watch over Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep. The Lord, himself, watches over you. The lord is your shade at your right hand, so that the sun shall not strike you by day, nor the moon by night. The Lord shall preserve you from all evil. It is he who shall keep you safe. The Lord shall watch over your going out and your coming in.

From this time forth, forever more. Amen.

PHILLIPS: With that final prayer begins the final journey there from the U.S. Supreme Court. You're seeing the justices here working their way down the steps, and just, of course, behind them, the pallbearers bringing the coffin of Justice William Rehnquist From the Supreme Court, a place where he presided for nearly two decades.

Joe Johns also joining us now, live from Washington D.C.

Joe, I guess just an amazing amount of love shown for this man in the past couple days. Probably the most touching moments, Sandra Day O'Connor and the tears that she showed as that coffin made its way into the Supreme Court. Those two had such an incredible relationship.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They certainly did, Kyra. Stanford Law School together, and then later, she found herself on the Supreme Court with Chief Justice Rehnquist. She is expected to deliver the eulogy at the Cathedral of St. Matthew's. That is where I am now. The hearse is on its way, here to this location. The president also expected to deliver a eulogy as well. Some members of the family of the chief justice also expected to speak. It won't be a very long ceremony, but certainly is true that this has been a tough few days for the family of chief justice, and in some ways, that family includes the Supreme Court justices.

PHILLIPS: And among -- Joe, among the pallbearers who brought the casket into the court, John Roberts, the man Bush has nominated to replace Rehnquist as chief justice. Just watching that whole dynamic has been fascinating as well.

JOHNS: That's very true, nominated to replace the chief justice. Roberts, of course, expected to have the first day of his confirmation hearing on Monday, expected to last at least a week. He was, in many ways, an apprentice if you will, to the Chief Justice Rehnquist the mentor. And they had a lot of conversations -- he was a clerk, of course, to the chief justice, and took a lot of what he had to say to heart. So he was a pallbearer, and I spoke with Roberts yesterday, in fact, at the court, asked him a little bit about all the preparations that were going into getting ready for the confirmation, and he said he thought this was a time just to give the next few days for the chief justice.

If you hear the sirens behind me, Kyra, that is in all likelihood the motorcade bearing the president of the United States, making its way to the Cathedral of St. Matthew.

PHILLIPS: And Joe, we're watching the live picture now of all the pallbearers bringing the casket down the steps very slowly, very carefully. Tell me about the other pallbearers. These are all former clerks of Chief Rehnquist, right?

JOHNS: That's right. Well, I don't know because I can't see from my position who's actually bringing the casket down. But I can tell you that I was told Roberts would not be there. And yesterday, I can say, he was one of the pallbearer, one of eight pallbearers, seven of whom were former clerks for the chief justice. As I said, a very close relationship between the clerks and the chief justice. He stayed in touch with them.

And one of the former clerks told me a story just last week, that when they were clerking for the chief justice. Not long out of law school, these very bright young people, from time to time, when they were working on a case that the chief justice had a particular interest in, they'd go for a walk with him, around the court or around the Capitol, talked through the case. Sometimes it would be a conversation. Sometimes it might be a speech, perhaps, by the chief justice. Sometimes, they said, it would be an argument over the direction of the case, the facts and the law.

And that's the kind of relationship, we're told, he had with his clerks. Still very close. Many of them came to participate in some fashion in this ceremony, whether to be pallbearers. Also, groups of them, four at a time, stood vigil next to the casket while people were passing by there at the Supreme Court -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Joe, you and I have talked a lot about Rehnquist, just as a very interesting character. And you said there was one thing that he had and that was such a great sense of humor. And I was reading this one quote by one of his former clerks who teaches law at Indiana University, Joseph Hoffman (ph). And he says, in some ways, Rehnquist is probably looking down at all of this and he's totally amused by it all because he was such a person of -- that liked to be anonymous. He was a person that liked to be anonymous.

And you and I talked about that. Everybody wanted to find out when he was retiring and how he was doing and he always had such funny remarks to the media. I remember the last one, he shouted out, you know, when am I going to retire? Well, that's for me to know and you to find out. Right?

JOHNS: Right, exactly. Well, in fact, I have to tell you, there were some speeches on the Senate floor today about Rehnquist. And among the people who gave speeches was Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic leader, who sort of intimated this story whereby he'd heard about the chief justice having cancer and there was all this talk over the summer about him retiring, and when he might retire.

Reid told the Senate, in a speech, that he actually picked up the phone and called the chief justice at home, said he apologized for bothering him, but simply wanted to tell Rehnquist to resign. And Rehnquist said, I'm not going to. During all this time, he'd never told his colleagues, Reid said, about the conversation. But he knew that the chief justice wasn't going to resign.

But what you were referring to was the time when a reporter shouted out a question outside his house... PHILLIPS: Right.

JOHNS: ... about it. And Rehnquist actually responded, that's for me to know and for you to find out.

PHILLIPS: He...

JOHNS: He was. He was such a character, a prankster.

PHILLIPS: And what do you remember? You -- when I asked you -- we were talking a lot about his possible retirement, you know, within the past couple of months. And you did tell me some really neat stories about him. Share with me some of those, again. Share with our viewers just about times that you ran into him, times that you saw him, and stories that you would hear from others about him.

JOHNS: Yes, well. The -- probably the most memorable thing for me, not just me, but a lot of people, obviously, was the impeachment of President Clinton. These were troubled times in the United States. And it was one of those few opportunities you really got to see the chief justice on a fairly regular basis up on Capitol Hill, somewhere other than the court. And he always carried himself with such dignity and grace.

People made a lot of comments about the fact that he wore stripes on his robe. But, you know -- which made him certainly stand out among the others on the court. He also was a sharp questioner and really had a great ability to focus the court. And he was one of those people, obviously, who's had a larger influence on the court than any other chief justice, something like the fourth longest serving, 19 years the chief justice. Had a real sense of the institution, the history of it.

In fact, I guess, last year, I narrated a documentary about probably the most famous Chief Justice John Marshall. And the producers of that documentary, Motion Masters, out of Huntington, West Virginia, apparently went after the chief justice for an interview. They had to you know, send him letters, they had to submit questions. And finally, he decided to sit down with them and talk to them about chief justice John Marshall. He was that type of person, seldom to do an interview, but he was very much interested in promoting the history of the court and promoting the court as an institution.

PHILLIPS: And personally, his family, very important to him. But he was such -- as you told me, it seemed like no matter what, he was always there. Even when he was ill, he wanted to come to work. You would see him in the building. He was such a fighter, physically. But at the same time, you know, his family was very important and spending time with loved ones was very important to him toward the end, as well.

JOHNS: Certainly, very true. Always made a point of remaining close to his family. Of course, he had a house up in Vermont, as you know. And he had the house here. And there was a lot of concern because that was a place where he would meet with his family, and he didn't go up to the house in Vermont. And so, you know, there was some speculation that he was very ill at that time. So, extremely close to family.

As I said, extremely close to his clerks, as well. So many of them -- you know, they really just love him, and have the greatest amount of respect for him. There's apparently a reunion just about every year of those who could make it and many did. Many did, in fact, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: What do you think people will remember the most about Chief Justice William Rehnquist?

JOHNS: It's interesting. Everybody has a different take on it. You know, the people who look at the politics of the court will talk about his movement of the court in the direction of states' rights. But, you know, I looked on the Web site of the "American Bar Association Journal" today, and they pretty much talked about his leadership, how he was a superb, you know, leader. Also, as I told you, pushed the institution of the court.

And I think that's what it is. I think it's probably about the commity of the court, bringing people together to reach some conclusions on some very controversial cases. Probably the case that people will most remember from the Rehnquist court will be Bush versus Gore. And that will stick with him for a long time.

But there are some other things, too. There was, obviously, the decision not to do away with the Miranda Rule. And he was sort of critical in that, as you know. Miranda is the case that requires police chief -- police officers, when they're arresting a person, to read them their rights. And there was some question as to whether that was really necessary. And at the end of the day, the court decided that the rule of reading a person their rights when they're arrested was so now ingrained in the fabric of American society, it would be wrong to do away with it.

So, lots of famous cases. States' rights, Bush versus Gore, and moving toward -- moving toward the right, to some degree, Kyra. I think he'll be remembered for that, as well.

PHILLIPS: Joe, you've gotten to know a number of the justices in different ways. How well did you get to know Rehnquist? Did you get to spend a lot of time with him?

JOHNS: I spent no time with the chief justice. I would see him from time to time in the hallways. I'd see him from time to time on the bench when a case was being heard. But I had no special access. I believe I shook his hand once.

PHILLIPS: And that was pretty amazing, no doubt.

JOHNS: But that was about it. Yes, saying -- you know, walking up to John Roberts, just yesterday, and getting -- you know, I'd seen him behind the scenes at a number of photo opportunities around the Capitol, meeting with Leahy, meeting with Frist.

And this was my first opportunity to sort of look him in the face and shake his hand. You know, the old-fashioned saying that the measure of a person is whether they look you in the eye and give you a firm handshake, and I can say both Rehnquist and Roberts do at least that much.

PHILLIPS: Wow, Joe Johns.

Well, you always look people in the eye with a nice strong handshake as well.

Our Joe Johns there, outside the St. Matthews Cathedral in Washington. We're seeing a live shot actually of it now.

Joe, we will be going back to you of course. Thank you so much.

We can tell you now the flag-draped wooden coffin of Chief Justice William Rehnquist that was lying in repose at the Supreme Court, where he presided for nearly two decades, is now on its way to St. Matthews Cathedral in Washington, where our Joe Johns is.

The services will be conducted there by a number of various reverends, including one that Chief Rehnquist was very close to. The eulogy to be given by Sandra Day O'Connor, one of his dearest friends. We'll continue to follow the coverage live in Washington D.C. as we remember Chief Justice William Rehnquist.

We'll take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

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PHILLIPS: One of the hardest parts of the state of emergency, of course, is to talk about the Army mortuary company that's heading for Louisiana now to help in that extremely difficult task of processing all the dead bodies. And one who knows what they're about to face is Dr. Werner Spitz, an expert in the field of forensic pathology.

Doctor, nice to have you with us.

DR. WERNER SPITZ, FMR. MEDICAL EXAMINER: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, not only are these morticians having to deal with bodies that are decomposed, but you've got medical and dental records that are probably washed away, which means that that process of identifying these bodies is even more difficult, correct?

SPITZ: Yes, sure it is. Yes, in order to provide for identification, dentistry is, by far, perhaps the most important. And if the records are not available, that compounds the tasks many times.

PHILLIPS: So what do you do, doctor? Do you have to find other family members and take swabs from other family members? Is it genetic testing now that you have to do?

SPITZ: Well, if -- in order to do genetic testing, you need something to compare with. It's not enough to take a specimen from the dead body. You have to compare it to something known. In other words, like a DNA on a toothbrush or DNA on a hair in a hair brush. And if that is not available, that, again, makes it so much more difficult. And I foresee that in a situation like this, where there is no available comparison possible, you might find that at the end, when at the end of the day you have a mass grave for a lot of unknown people.

PHILLIPS: Now, I was -- I did watch an interview yesterday, doctor, that they were saying in no way they were going to do a mass grave, because they just -- it's too disrespectful, and they can't do that to the people of New Orleans, that they are going to take every single body and give each body -- each individual an individual plot. But when you look at the volumes and the numbers of individuals, do you think that's going to be possible? I guess anything's possible if you say that's what your going to do, right?

SPITZ: Well, I suppose. But, you know, you can only do so much. And when you have exhausted that, there is nothing else left to do.

PHILLIPS: So how do you go forward? Let's say, worst-case scenario...

SPITZ: Well, you have, in a large area, such as in this case, a warehouse, you have stations where an a anthropologist approaches it, where a dentist approaches it, where different specialties all over have their location inside this building, and the bodies go from one to the other to the next and so on. And the FBI comes in for fingerprinting, and fingerprinting may be an important way to go in a lot of these bodies.

But, you know, it is one item like fingerprints, or dentistry or anthropology is only good for a particular case, and is not applicable to every one.

So, therefore, the task at the end of the day, as I say, is very difficult because you're dealing with bodies that are changed, that are not viewable. Not only not viewable, you wouldn't even want to see a next of kin, a relative in this condition, because that's how you're going to remember them for the rest of your own life.

PHILLIPS: Well, and Dr. Werner Spitz, I can't imagine dealing with the difficult task of identifying those bodies, but having to look into the eyes of family members and tell them that, indeed, that is their family member that has passed.

SPITZ: That's correct.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Werner Spitz, yes, expert in field of forensic pathology, thank you, sir.

SPITZ: You're very welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM, neither snow, nor rain is supposed to keep the postal service from those appointed round, right? But what about hurricane and flood? And what about these devastated areas? Well, the postmaster general's plans to keep getting the mail through. We're going to talk about it. He join us live. Also, I'll be joined by a New Orleans' doctor who stayed with his patients long after his city virtually collapsed all around him. His amazing story straight ahead.

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