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Bird Flu Concerns Raise Questions; Small Mississippi Town Works to Rebuild; Search and Rescue Team Sidelined Over Gun Rule; Supreme Court Considers Assisted Suicide Case

Aired October 05, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, HOST, LIVE FROM: I'm Daryn Kagan. That will wrap up this hour. A lot more ahead on LIVE FROM. Kyra Phillips joins you right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BARRY, AUTHOR, "THE GREAT INFLUENZA": This disease killed more people in 24 weeks than AIDS has killed in 24 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Could it happen again? A disturbing medical link between the virus that sparked the great pandemic of 1918 and bird flu. We'll tell you about the report.

And a LIVE FROM salute to the man who rode to the rescue in New Orleans. We'll talk live with General Russel Honore as he reflects on his homeland and prepares to pull up stakes.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM start right now.

A killer virus returns from the grave, with the unlikely mission of saving the world from bird flu. If that sounds like the treatment for an upcoming Crichton novel, well, it may be. But it's also the very real, cutting-edge, gene-level research that started with a body preserved for 87 years in the Alaska permafrost and ended with a total reconstruction of the germ behind the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918. That was the single deadliest disease outbreak in recorded history, blamed for a minimum of 20 million deaths, maybe as many as 50 million around the world.

I said ended, but the real work is just getting started, using the old virus to engineer defenses to the new one, which with it bears some compelling similarities.

Bird, or avian flu originated in Southeast Asia and is blamed for killing 65 people so far. Among humans, it's not readily contagious, but scientists fear that could change in a heartbeat. So how bad could it be?

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the potentially bleak diagnosis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The so-called Spanish flu struck in the final months of World War I, rapidly killing more people than died in that entire bloody war.

BARRY: This disease killed more people in 24 weeks than AIDS has killed in 24 years.

GUPTA: As many as 100 million people perished worldwide. And the suffering was horrific.

BARRY: Your skin could turn so dark blue from lack of oxygen that one physician reported that he had difficulty telling African- American troops from white troops. People could bleed from -- not only from their mouth and nose, but even from their eyes and ears.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing I can think of that could take a larger human death toll than virulent pandemic influenza would be thermonuclear war.

GUPTA: And Laura Garrett, who studies the flu, is worried it could all happen again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The problem with flu is it is orders of magnitude more contagious, than the dreaded Ebola virus, than smallpox, than just about anything except common colds.

GUPTA: A single sneeze ejects millions of flu viruses into the air, and the virus can live as long as two days, even on a cold surface, like a doorknob.

In some ways, we're better off than in 1918. Antibiotics can stop pneumonia complications. But anti-flu drugs such as Tamiflu or Luenza (ph) offer just partial protection. There's an experimental vaccine against bird flu, but no one really knows if it will work. And remember, back in 1918, the virus couldn't hitch a ride on a plane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It circumnavigated earth three times in 18 months when there was no commercial air travel. There were a lot fewer human beings. We did not have a globalized economy. Americans rarely went outside of America. Now look at us.

GUPTA: Today's deadly bird flu is literally less than 24 hours away.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, from Petri dishes at the CDC to the front burner in Washington, bird flu emerges as a clear and present danger to Americans and everybody else. And President Bush is even concerned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we had an outbreak somewhere in the United States, do we not, then, quarantine that part of the country? And how do you, then, enforce a quarantine? It's one thing to shut down airplanes. It's another thing to prevent people from coming in to get exposed to the avian flu. And who best to be able to effect a quarantine? One option is the use of a military that's able to plan and move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Joining me now with the global security implications of the new pandemic is Amy Smithson of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Amy, it's interesting. We hear military, once again, responding to something like this, which would be pretty much a disaster like what we've seen, this natural disaster. Is that strange to hear, once again, military involvement in something like this in our homeland?

AMY SMITHSON, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, I'm not surprised that's the initial suggestion, because often, we turn to the military in time of trouble.

President Bush is asking the right question: how do we enforce a quarantine? But whether or not he's come up with the right answer remains to be seen.

The good news here is that public health authorities have been working with lawyers and the National Governors Association to try to sort out these issues about quarantine, what the authorities are, and who would enforce those authorities, should circumstances merit it.

PHILLIPS: Well, because we -- let's talk about communication for a minute. We saw what happened with the response to Katrina and all these different agencies that were supposed to be communicating, who asks whom for help -- so there's got to be some sort of practice, wouldn't you say, if, indeed, the military was going to step in, on who asks who for what, before the military can actually take action legally, right?

SMITHSON: Sorting out who's in charge is often the most difficult part of the disaster. When there are conflicting authorities, people standing up say, no, that's me, that's me. That's when you get confusion in the ranks and uncertainty about who's responsible for what.

That's why it's very important to have this debate now. And there are over 30 state in the nation that have already revised their public health powers authorities, in anticipation, either of a bioterrorist act or something like a pandemic influenza outbreak.

So we're getting started in the right direction, but it's time for us now to engage in a very serious national debate about whether or not military should really be brought into this equation, as opposed to the National Guard at the state level.

PHILLIPS: Well, and you've even said, if, indeed this had to happen, the issue of a quarantine and the military getting involved, you said it would be sad and interesting to watch, at the same time. Tell me why.

SMITHSON: It would be difficult to watch, because Americans will be suffering, not only physically, but mentally. These types of circumstances create incredible stresses.

It will be interesting to see whether or not we can get this sorted out in advance. That's the challenge that faces us now. Can we get our authorities straightened out? Can we get the plans in place and the capabilities in place?

Having worked with various jurisdictions across this country, I can tell you that there are very few law enforcement officers I've spoken with who think they have enough personnel to be able to quarantine their metropolitan area or their state. So there will have to be some type of additional manpower brought into this equation. We just need to figure out how to make this happen.

PHILLIPS: And Amy, let's say that happened, just take the state of California, for example. What would we see? How would it -- I mean, what would be the perfect case scenario with regard to organization if, indeed, it had to happen?

SMITHSON: Well, one thing that the military knows very well and also police authorities know very well is a chain of command. And that's what's important to straighten out here.

Also, what are the rules of engagement, to use a military term, or what use of force would be authorized in order to make sure that citizens don't break a quarantine?

We're trying to strike a balance between what's right for the national good, or the public good, and civil liberties. Would police authorities be authorized to shoot, to enforce a quarantine? Would they shoot Grandmother? Or a young girl trying to leave an area in order to get health care? These are things that really need to be straightened out far in advance.

PHILLIPS: and finally, my question, talking about this possible pandemic and looking at the past and talking about military involvement in a quarantine, when it comes down to it, a lot of critics are saying, OK, we're all blowing this out of proportion. Where do you stand?

SMITHSON: Oh, no, we're not blowing this out of proportion. For any number of years, public health authorities have been telling us that we are overdue a pandemic, an influenza pandemic. In fact, we're about 75 years overdue. So this is something that Mother Nature is definitely going to bring our way. It's just a matter of when, not if.

PHILLIPS: You know what's scary, Amy? I think about New Orleans and the Army Corps of Engineers saying, one of those days -- one of these days, those levees are going to break. And everybody -- a lot of people thought, yes, OK, OK. So I hear you say this and it's just sort a frightening thought. SMITHSON: Don't take my word for it; take the World Health Organization's word for it. Listen to what is coming from the CDC and Dr. Julie Gerberding. This is a message that's been consistent for sometime.

What we need to do now is make sure that our public -- our public officials, our elected officials are educated to make the right decisions about how best to prepare us for it and also that we can condition the public, that we educate our citizens about what their responsibilities will be in these circumstances.

PHILLIPS: Amy Smithson with CSIS, thanks so much for your time today.

SMITH: My pleasure to be with you.

PHILLIPS: Well, before we move on, shades of SAR at a nursing home in Canada. Ten people have died; 84 have been stricken in a puzzling outbreak that experts say is different from, yet grimly reminiscent of, the SARS outbreak that killed 44 people in this city, Toronto in 2003.

Bird flu, regular flu and Legionnaire's Disease also have been ruled out.

Public health officials are scrambling to contact anybody who's had any contact with the Seven Oaks Home for the Aged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Up next on LIVE FROM, the mission is almost over for that John Wayne dude. We'll talk live with General Russel Honore as he prepares to leave New Orleans and find out more about the one thing he insists on doing before he goes.

Also ahead, up in arms. An Arizona search and rescue team runs afoul of FEMA rules about guns. Now, Phoenix officials are plenty fired up.

And later, there's no place like mobile home, or is there? The flap over trailers for those made homeless by hurricanes.

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PHILLIPS: Cleaning up, straightening up and building backup. Coastal communities hit hard by the hurricanes are doing what they can with what they have. But many find the going slow. One of those towns in transition, Long Beach, Mississippi. Alderman Richard Bennett showed our Rob Marciano around.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD BENNETT, ALDERMAN, LONG BEACH, MISSISSIPPI: The water came through and, as you can see, it destroyed the church. We haven't been able to find any pews. We don't know where the pews have gone. We don't know if they've washed back out into the ocean. But of all the debris field that you see, all around it, we have not been able to find any pews.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: My goodness.

BENNETT: But if you look in this church, all four of the stained glass windows are still here. None of them broke. They're not cracked or anything.

MARCIANO: Look at that.

BENNETT: This was a beautiful church. And I can tell you, the church is still here. The building's gone, but the church is still here.

MARCIANO: It's been over a month now. What kind of progress has been made in Long Beach?

BENNETT: Oh, tremendous progress has been done on our cleanup. As far as where you're walking now, you couldn't walk. All the streets had 12 foot deep of litter, debris. And the cleanup's going great. But as you can see, there's still a lot to be cleaned up, a lot of rebuilding.

Down in this area, the infrastructure it will be more than a year before we get the water and sewer down here for our businesses to come back. I'm hoping that, as you see down this main street, that our electrical wires and stuff will go underground, all our utilities underground. And come up with some nice lighting down Jeff Davis, and now's the time to do it. We'll never be able to do it again.

This is our elementary school. If you look from the other side, it's deceiving. You would think that it's OK; it's still standing. But as you can see, once you get over here, there's not much left to it.

To start school, we had to have our teachers back, too. A lot them have moved on. But they -- they've come back, and they're staying with friends. They're waiting for trailers. And we're hoping to have a FEMA trailer park for our teachers. And it just hasn't happened yet because FEMA hasn't given us the trailers. But we've got the spot, and we're ready to move.

MARCIANO: Courtesy of the federal government. Tell me what they've done for Long Beach.

BENNETT: I don't think FEMA knows there's a Long Beach. But every time we talk to someone from FEMA, they give us a different answer. We've got one FEMA person saying that's the way to do it. And the next day, saying, oh, no, you're doing it wrong. And we just need FEMA to work with us a little more than what we're doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, scientists are warning Louisiana must adopt building code. A preliminary study quoted in today's "Wall Street Journal" estimates that 79 percent of the wind damage from Hurricane Katrina could have been prevented if those buildings had met modern codes like those in Florida.

Art Levitan (ph) from the LSU Hurricane Center headed that study, and state lawmakers might consider adopting Louisiana's first building codes early next year.

In Louisiana, one of many search and rescue teams that rushed to help people in New Orleans after Katrina has suspended operations, not by choice, but by order of the federal government.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve explains the sudden decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire department.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Phoenix, Arizona, urban search and rescue team, hailed as heroic after Hurricane Katrina, credited with rescuing 400 people. But now, the team has been suspended by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forbidden from doing rescue work for them.

MAYOR PHIL GORDON, PHOENIX, ARIZONA: It's just inconceivable and unbelievable. And in fact, it truly is shameful.

MESERVE: The problem, guns. The team was abruptly demobilized and sent home after Hurricane Rita, when higher-ups saw four armed law enforcement officers accompanying the team. FEMA says their presence put task force members, though they work with and victims at unnecessary risk.

The FEMA urban search and rescue code of conduct is explicit: members are restricted from carrying firearms. And the activation order for Hurricane Rita specified that teams should be accompanied by six people to do ground support and no other positions or personnel.

But Phoenix officials sent protection for the team anyway.

GORDON: Their job is inherently dangerous enough. They're risking their lives to save other lives. And if we have the ability to make them safer, we will.

MESERVE (on camera): When the team was deployed here to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, members say they actually came under fire while conducting search and rescue.

(voice-over) After Rita, when CNN was embedded with the team, there were reports of poisonous cottonmouth snakes and alligators where the team was searching and sleeping.

CHIEF KEVIN KALKBRENNER, PHOENIX FIRE DEPARTMENT: It's also comforting to be able to have that kind of protection, as you well know, when we wind up spending the night in the parking lot, in the -- at 10 at night, to have those guys around to create that kind of protection, it's certainly an advantage.

MESERVE: FEMA says it provides protection for teams that request it, and Phoenix never did. Nonetheless, Phoenix officials are demanding an apology from FEMA and changes.

DAVE SIEBERT, PHOENIX CITY COUNCIL: I think this antiquated policy of FEMA was probably written by some pencil-pushing bureaucrats that were not front line troops. It's antiquated. We all know it's antiquated.

MESERVE: Phoenix officials say they will not allow the team to be deployed to unsafe areas without armed law enforcement. FEMA says they won't be deployed with them. So for now, they stay home, no matter what the nation's needs may be.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And straight ahead on LIVE FROM, we're expecting to talk with General Russel Honore. He tells me right now they're in Cameron, Louisiana. They've got to call us from the sat phone. As soon as they stop moving, we'll talk to him.

Also, she can't legally drive a car, but she sure knows how to drive a golf ball. Man, she has a swing. Michelle Wie, ready to leave the amateurs behind and start cashing in on the green.

And the trouble with Tammy. Will the 19th named storm of the season pose a threat to the Atlantic coast? The latest from the National Hurricane Center straight ahead.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: No orientation period for the new Supreme Court justice, John Roberts. In just his third day on the job, the high court is joining the emotional debate over doctor assisted suicide.

CNN's Kimberly Osias is standing by with more -- Kim.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Kyra. I mean, honestly, this is baptism by fire, essentially.

Although this isn't the first case that the new chief justice has presided over, it is certainly the most highly charged emotionally on both sides. The case deals with a 1997 Oregon law that allows physicians to prescribe lethal doses of medication to terminally ill patients.

Attorneys supporting the right to die with dignity say it's a state's rights issue. Counsel on the side of the right to life says physician assisted suicide lacks legitimate medical purpose and violates the Controlled Substances Act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM BOPP, GENERAL COUNSEL, RIGHT TO LIFE: We think the critical point is that this is not medical treatment. We have gone -- in the assisted suicide area, we've gone from the concept of doing no harm for patients at the minimum and trying to help them or ameliorate their pain and conditions if possible, to now authorizing physicians to actively kill patients.

PEG SANDEEN, DEATH WITH DIGNITY NATIONAL CENTER: I'm a social worker, and I sit with patients and I hold their hands at the end of their lives. And I know that we Americans do not want the federal government, drug enforcement agents, judges, attorneys, in that moment, when people are dying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: The Oregon law is narrow and pertains only to patients with six months left to live, patients that believe there is no other humane or dignified way to die. Under current Oregon law, doctors do not actually administer the lethal doses; they only prescribe the medication.

While protesters on both sides demonstrated outside the high court, inside, retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor asked if federal laws also prevented doctors from participating in the execution of murderers.

She, along with justices Ginsburg and Stevens have battled cancer, as did the late chief justice, William Rehnquist.

As for the new chief, John Roberts, he said, quote, "If one state says doctors can prescribe morphine to make people feel good or steroids for body builders, doesn't that undermine the uniformity of federal law and make it harder to enforce elsewhere?

Clearly, the justices appear to be divided on this issue, and so far no real indication of just how the high court will rule -- Kyra.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: All right, well, Harriet Miers, of course, not confirmed, and you have Sandra Day O'Connor still on the bench. You mentioned her. How much of an impact could she have on this issue?

OSIAS: Well, it really depends on how close the vote will be. I mean, Justice Kennedy said this is a very tough case, and it certainly appears that way. So if it is a 4-4 type of vote, they may actually hear the case again later on down the line, Kyra, in the spring, when the new justice is confirmed.

PHILLIPS: Kimberly Osias, thank you.

Well, the president's nominee to succeed Justice O'Connor is back on Capitol Hill today. Harriet Miers' stops include chats with fellow Texan and GOP senator John Cornyn and the top Democrat on the judiciary committee, Senator Patrick Leahy.

It's not so much Democrats but some conservatives who continue to express concerns about Miers. In the words of columnist George Will today, "It is not important that she be confirmed, because there is no evidence that she is among the leading lights American jurisprudence or that she possesses talents commensurate with the Supreme Court's tasks. The president's 'argument' for her amounts to: 'Trust me'."

Miers receives a mostly positive response from most Americans, though not as strong as John Roberts. In a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, most people identifying themselves as moderate or conservative rate her as a good or excellent choice. Liberals, much as they did the John Roberts -- disagree.

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