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Afghanistan: The Forgotten War?; A Woman's Experience in Iraq

Aired October 05, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: American troops fighting, American troops dying. Battlefield Iraq? No, try Afghanistan, what some people call America's forgotten war. Four years after President Bush ordered the invasion of Afghanistan, it's anything but a forgotten war for the American men and women serving there.
CNN's Ryan Chilcote has this first-hand report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 2nd Battalion of the U.S. Army's 503rd Airborne Infantry went to Afghanistan six months ago expecting a peaceful deployment. They got anything but.

SETH WILLIAMS, U.S. ARMY: You know we're watching the news too, and all the media is focused on Iraq and all of the fighting going on there. So coming to Afghanistan, we were thinking, you know, this is going to be an easy tour, there's not going to be much going on. And then we come here and we start losing guys.

CHILCOTE: Soldiers, like Seth Williams, patrol Afghanistan's Zabul Province, a Taliban sanctuary where the U.S. rarely ventured until this unit arrived. They are trained to move fast. Just 40 minutes after getting intelligence on a wanted Taliban leader, platoon searches these compounds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here. Come here now.

CHILCOTE: Others search from the air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, can we cut them off?

CHILCOTE: In their six months here, these soldiers estimate capturing or killing 400 Taliban. But this time do not find the man they are looking for.

WILLIAMS: When it's a dry hole, we're pretty excited to get back and relax, because we've been pretty exhausted.

CHILCOTE: Exhausting and deadly. The battalion lost 7 soldiers in six months, 34 more wounded. But their comrades say few back home even know they're here.

WILLIAMS: When I went home on leave, everyone was just like, yes, how long have you been in Iraq? And I was like, no, I'm going to Afghanistan. You know that's -- I haven't been to Iraq yet. But...

CHILCOTE (on camera): And what is their reaction to that?

WILLIAMS: Their reaction is, well, at least you'll be safe in Afghanistan. Yes.

CHILCOTE: And it's not quite that way?

WILLIAMS: Yes, it's completely the opposite.

CHILCOTE (voice-over): Corporal Kyle Frederixson spent a year in Iraq.

CPL. KYLE FREDERIXSON, U.S. ARMY: Everyone is like, it could be worse, you could go to Iraq. But my experiences so far would indicate that I would rather be deployed back to Iraq than over here, personally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

CHILCOTE: This is the deadliest year yet for the U.S. in Afghanistan. More than 50 killed in action since January, in a place and in a war many here say their fellow Americans have all but forgotten.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Deh Chopan Valley, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Joining me now to talk more about the situation in Afghanistan and the role of the U.S. military there, CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen. He was in Afghanistan in January, not too long ago. What were your perceptions, Peter?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, you know, I was there in January, also in October. I was there during the presidential election, which went very smoothly. You know, Hamid Karzai getting 52 percent of the vote against 17 candidates, the Taliban not really having much of an ability to interfere with that election.

Now, we just recently had parliamentary elections in Afghanistan. Those went, you know, pretty well. The turnout was lower, only 50 percent, but that's still relatively high. There was some discussion that there was some voter fraud or irregularities, but that is also somewhat to be expected. The Taliban was not able to interfere with this parliamentary election, either.

So despite the fact that we're seeing the record number of U.S. military deaths, as the piece indicated, in Afghanistan, we're also seeing the fact that the Taliban is not able to really affect what's going on on a strategic level. Yes, they're able to kill some Americans. Yes, they're able to kill quite a number of Afghans. But they can't really interfere with these important milestones, the parliamentary elections, the presidential elections -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's good to hear that those milestones are taking place, but you even heard from this young soldier in Ryan Chilcote's piece, saying, I'd much rather be in Iraq than Afghanistan. Does that surprise you?

BERGEN: Well, that was -- you know, it's a pretty amazing sentiment. I mean, the place where Ryan Chilcote did the piece, Zabul Province is right in the middle of Afghanistan. It's probably the most dangerous to be right now in the country. It's sort of hardcore Taliban territory. I've actually traveled through there and it is the place that you're most likely to encounter some pretty serious resistance. If you were in other parts of the country, you're going see less of it. So I think that soldier was really reflecting the reality of being in a particularly hardcore Taliban area.

PHILLIPS: When talking about the roots of the ongoing war there, going all the way back to Afghan, Soviet, that situation with the Soviets and a little bit of the U.S. involvement there -- I shouldn't say a little, bit -- but U.S. involvement. And then sort of died out and there was this massive civil war and we really didn't talk about Afghanistan, you didn't hear about it.

And then all of a sudden, 9/11 happens and you've got this war on terror. And Afghanistan, all of a sudden, is on the forefront of everybody's minds. A lot of critics saying, you know what, if the U.S. would have just stayed in the fight way back when with Afghanistan and the Soviets, it wouldn't be so bad right now. What do you think about that?

BERGEN: Well, I think it's true, Kyra. I mean, I -- you know, the U.S. closed its embassy in Afghanistan in 1989 after the Soviets pulled out. And Afghans feel very strongly that they were sort of abandoned by the United States once they'd sort of served the purposes of the United States by defeating the Soviets. We're not going to make that mistake again, obviously, because it reverted to a failed state. It allowed bin Laden, who we see in these pictures, and al Qaeda, to flourish.

We're never going to -- you know, we're going to -- I think we're going to stay the course in Afghanistan. We've had an average of 23,000 American troops there pretty much over the past four years. We put in a fair amount of money. I think there's a lot more that can be done. And, of course, you know, Afghanistan is now fixing to be the world's largest producer of heroin, and that's kind of problematic because, obviously, al Qaeda or the Taliban could profit from that trade. Although there's not much evidence of that yet.

But so there is much work to be done. However, you know, I think there are some grounds for optimism. We've seen three million Afghans returning to Afghanistan in the last few years. People don't return to countries that they left unless they feel the situation is getting better. In Kabul, you know, you see traffic jams. Obviously, that's a form of progress that we don't necessarily like, but I think it's an indicator that the economy is beginning to move. So, there are some grounds, some cautious optimism.

PHILLIPS: Peter Bergen, thanks so much.

BERGEN: Thank you. PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, young and female in the U.S. Army, a firsthand account of what life is like for a young woman at combat. The risks and rewards of a co-ed military, next on LIVE FROM.

Plus, a celebrity run-in, literally. Teen queen Lindsay Lohan crashes her car while fleeing photographers. We'll get the latest from Hollywood.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you're in the Army, in the combat zone of Iraq, and you're a woman. You daily face the threat of being blown away and experience the abuse of an Iraqi prisoner and come-ons from your comrades in arms.

That's the story of Kayla Williams who served in Iraq as a member of the 101st Airborne division, in her new book about her experiences, "Love My Rifle More Than You." She joins me now live to talk about that book and her experiences. Love the title. Did you come up with that?

KAYLA WILLIAMS, U.S. ARMY VETERAN: It's from an army cadence.

PHILLIPS Really?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: I didn't know that. So, I guess -- I am sure the publishers loved it then when you said, look, it makes perfect sense.

WILLIAMS: They thought it made perfect sense. I tried to explain that I didn't actually carry a rifle, I had a carbine, but they weren't interested in the semantics.

PHILLIPS: They were like, it doesn't matter. It just sounds good.

WILLIAMS: Right.

PHILLIPS: Chicks with guns, right. Military, very empowering for women in many ways, yes?

WILLIAMS: It definitely can be. It's hard and there are a lot of challenges, but being able to overcome all those obstacles and hurdles left me feeling incredibly strong and I know that I can survive in situations that I might not have known that I could make it through if I had not gone into the military.

PHILLIPS: Give me an example or two. I mean, what sticks out in your mind when you -- I mean, you talk about so many things in your book, but what is the first thing that comes to mind?

WILLIAMS: There was a time when we responded to an explosion of unexploded ordinance and there were some Iraqi civilians who had been seriously wounded and I translated and helped as we provided emergency first aid. And now I know that if I have to stop because there has been a terrible car accident, I can provide emergency first aid and not faint at the sight of blood. I know that I can get through a crisis. And it feels good to know that I'm strong enough to handle difficult situations.

PHILLIPS: And you speak Arabic. We should point that out.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: I don't think everybody realizes that. Women in combat, pros and cons -- I'm curious what you think.

WILLIAMS: It happens. I think the biggest con is that so many American people still think that because Congress says we can't be in the combat arms -- the infantry, artillery, we can't be tankers -- that women aren't in combat, but they certainly are. Female MPs go into incredibly dangerous situations, and all people in Iraq are in a combat zone at this point, even convoys and ...

PHILLIPS: Yes, there are no battle lines. You're all involved in the danger spot.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. There's no frontline or trench and beyond -- you know, back behind that it's safe. It's not like that anymore. And during actual combat situations or while missions are going on, I never thought gender was an issue at all. It just didn't come up. All that we were focused on was getting the mission accomplished.

It's only when there's too much downtime and waiting between missions in more secure locations that some of those pressures from being away from home and family and being able to take time off -- those pressures build up and then the gender issue can really come to the fore.

PHILLIPS: Do you think because of the way it is in Iraq, basically, no battle lines really, I mean, everybody is involved with very dangerous situations. Do you think men look at women differently or and women look at combat differently? Or at least do you since you've been in this situation?

I mean, you know, of course, we could talk about special forces. Men -- no way, we're not going to let be a part of special operations of special forces, but do you think that could change because of what we're seeing women do in such extreme situations?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. There was recently a female MP who was awarded the silver star for her valor in combat. And as more and more male soldiers see women doing their jobs and behaving professionally and come to recognize that in that situation we're all soldiers, I think that some of those barriers are going to start to come down. But it's not going to happen right away and I don't think it's something that should be rushed along.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about the negative side to the male/female situation. I mean, you're very blunt. I love that about you. We're going to get really blunt here about this issue of sexual harassment.

And you talk about a piece of meat -- being a piece of meat in your book and you describe what it is like to be respected for your skills but, at the same time, treated variously as a soldier, a sister, a mother, a bitch, a slut. I mean, you really lay it out.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely, and there are people who seem very surprised by what I'm talking about, but come one. A lot of guys in the Army are between 18 and 25 years old. Of course they're feeling a lot of pressure and then they're in this incredibly difficult situation. And most of the men that I worked with closely absolutely treated me as a professional and respected me as a soldier for my ability to do my job.

But there were times, especially around people who were not familiar with me, just walking through a chow hall and feeling just eyes staring and staring, not because I'm that attractive but just because there were not that many options. And that could get incredibly frustrating. There are times when I would actually say I am not a zoo animal.

PHILLIPS: Don't sell yourself short, you're a beautiful woman. You know, a strong soldier and beautiful woman. There's nothing wrong with that. But so sexual harassment, it's an issue.

WILLIAMS: It definitely happens, but I think it happens in a lot of different career fields in America still today. It's not just limited to the military. It can be a problem, but I know the Army is trying hard to combat it and I really believe that the more that people see women acting as soldiers in a combat zone, the less of a problem it will become.

PHILLIPS: That's true, because whether you're a man or a woman, when you're in that type of situation and you're representing yourself as a soldier, you need to be strong, you need to be disciplined, you need not to take any flack from anybody and you prove yourself, no matter what your gender.

WILLIAMS: That's absolutely true. The thing that, I think, can be most frustrating is there are people who just can't handle it, both men and women. I saw men just break down and be completely unable to deal with the situation. And they were looked at as individuals who couldn't handle it.

Unfortunately, because women are such a minority -- we're only 15 percent -- if a woman has an incredibly hard time or is really struggling and just breaks down, it is not just she the individual, but a lot of people will look at her and think, oh, women can't handle it, not this individual woman can't handle it. And that's one of the most frustrating things, is just representing all others of your kind.

PHILLIPS: And looking at that dynamic of not being able to handle something or not, how do you think the Army -- because you talk about post-traumatic stress and what your comrades went through, what you went through. How is the military dealing with that because these are longer tours. This is a -- the insurgency is just brutal, what you and other folks, soldiers are going up against. Are we taking care of our soldiers when they come back?

WILLIAMS: No.

PHILLIPS: Wow.

WILLIAMS: We're not taking care of our soldiers when they come back. My husband was injured very severely and he does have some post-traumatic stress disorder and the extent of the help that he seems to have gotten most of the time has either been try these pills or go to group therapy and they're going to talk to you about diaphragmatic breathing. Deep breathing will fix all your problems.

And it's just not enough. There are a lot of potential therapies that I read up on, but they're just not trickling down to the soldiers who need them the most quickly enough. And I think from what I've seen, the problem is probably far worse for guard and reserve members who don't go back to an actual base but go to communities where a lot of VA hospitals are closing down.

PHILLIPS: Wow. And I remember being overseas, and I remember asking whether it was sailors, Marines, soldiers, how do you deal with what you see? I compartmentalize. That was the key word; I compartmentalize.

WILLIAMS: Right.

PHILLIPS: But you come home, and you can't do that when you're with your spouse or your children or -- you've got to -- you've got to let it all out in some way. So what do you suggest? I mean, how are you dealing with your husband, for example? If he's not getting what he needs from the military, what do you do?

WILLIAMS: We're still seeking out other avenues and hoping that we can find something that will help and I do a lot of reading and we're trying our best, but, honestly, we're still struggling to find the answer to that same question.

It is much harder to compartmentalize when you are with somebody all the time and I definitely have a lot of empathy for the soldiers that come back to civilian spouses who simply can't understand at all what they've been through. I have a little understanding and maybe have some similar problems.

They're not at the same level, but there are a lot of people who just don't understand and, unfortunately, incidences of violence tend to go up really dramatically when soldiers are coming home and the anger issues can be so tough to deal with. And I really hope that we don't let this generation of vets down the way that it looks we may have let down all the soldiers that came back from Vietnam.

PHILLIPS: Gosh, that's so true. There's going to be so many that we have to take care of in the years to come. The book is fantastic. "Love My Rifle More Than You" -- love that title. "Young and Female in the U.S. Army." Kayla Williams, Thank you so much. What an inspiration ...

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: ... to men and to women. Thank you.

WILLIAMS: It's been a real pleasure speaking with you, thank you for having me.

PHILLIPS: Oh, it's wonderful. Thank you.

Well, straight ahead, paying to save. Why could you soon be hit with higher fees at your bank? We'll explain.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Sibila Vargas. More trouble for actress Lindsay Lohan and rap mogul Dr. Dre is digging deep into his pockets to help hurricane survivors. I'll have the details when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A high-speed crash, a head-on crash. Must-see video just into CNN. Look at this. That happened yesterday in Ft. Hall, Idaho. The state patrol was chasing an aggravated battery suspect who apparently didn't want to be arrested. The crash ended 30 hair- raising minutes at speeds reaching 100 miles an hour. The patrol car was empty at impact, just barely, and the suspect, intensive care at last report.

In entertainment news, Lindsey Lohan is fuming after another dramatic run-in with the paparazzi. CNN entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas, who's always running from the paparazzi...

VARGAS: Right.

PHILLIPS: ... joins us now live from L.A. with the details.

VARGAS: I wish!

That's right, Kyra, though. Lindsay Lohan has been in another car accident and, apparently, it might have something to do with the paparazzi, once again. The 19-year-old Lohan and a female passenger suffered minor injuries after the actress' Mercedes Benz convertible collided with a van in Hollywood. Witnesses say Lohan's car was swarmed with about 30 photographers before the crash. The driver of the van suffered moderate injuries. Authorities are investigating the accident. This is the second time this year that the "Lovebug" star has gotten into an accident where the paparazzi were present.

In other news, you can say that singer Fiona Apple has been MIA in the music world for some, but not anymore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... what brings you out here tonight, but I get the idea now.

FIONA APPLE, MUSICIAN: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a pretty big little to do coming up this weekend, don't you? Are you all warmed up for doing that?

APPLE: Oh, a big little thing. Oh, this weekend, the KROC thing? Oh, there's no point in getting warmed up for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VARGAS: After a six-year hiatus, the singer has taken to the road. Apple will launch a three-week tour on November 3rd in Portland, Oregon. It's all part of the master plan to promote her third album, "Extraordinary Machine." Other stops for the songstress will be Seattle, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York.

And what do you do when you're a late-night talk show host and you want U2 on your show? Well, you just hand it to them -- or at least that's what Conan O'Brien is doing. This Thursday, O'Brien will turn over his entire show to the band. This is the first time they've devoted the show entirely to musical guest. Apparently, the late- night host and his booker have been trying to get U2 on the show for 12 years. U2's frontman Bono, by the way, has been nominated for a Nobel Prize for trying to ease third world poverty.

And talk about good works. Dr. Dre is in the spirit of giving with the donation of $1 million. Working with a Houston agency, the rapper-turned-producer is making life better for 50 families that were hit hard by Hurricane Katrina. Each family will receive $20,000 to get back on their feet again. Now, after 9/11, Dre gave a generous donation to the Red Cross. This time, he wanted to make the gift a little more personal.

And that's a wrap from the world of entertainment -- Kyra, back to you.

PHILLIPS: All right, Sibila, thanks so much. Well, ready to cash in just in time for her sweet 16. Man, is she a golfer. Michelle Wie, one of the world's most famous female athletes, makes a major announcement. That's next on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, look out golf world, Michelle Wie is turning pro. Wie is a high school junior from Hawaii. She turns 16 next week. Look at her, can you believe that? Her talent is drawing comparisons to Tiger Woods, as you well know. You've seen the commercials. She outdrives him, I think. She's had top finishes in the women's British Open and LPGA Championship. She came within a shot of making the cut against the men in a PGA tournament. Reports say Wie has already agreed -- we know this -- several multi-million dollar endorsement deals. She's on her way.

More LIVE FROM, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, it seems if you're paying a lot more at the bank -- with all those fees, you think you're paying a lot more fees. Chris Huntington joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story.

Chris, it was hard to spit out. I'm thinking about all those fees and I was also thinking about my gas tank, how it cost me double yesterday.

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, between that and, oh -- yes, you're getting hit in every single direction.

PHILLIPS: Killing us. Exactly.

HUNTINGTON: Well, you know, we all hear these offers of free checking, but frankly, it looks like service charges are actually on the rise. Banks, thrifts, and credit unions collected a record $37.8 billion in service charges last year. That's more than double the total amount they collected just ten years ago, according to new numbers from the FTIC and the National Credit Union Administration.

Fees include everything from overdraft penalties to late payment charges. Bounced check and ATM fees are also setting records, and consumers are paying higher service charges for those checking accounts. So frankly, it doesn't look like you're getting much of a freebie from the banks.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

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