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Judging Saddam Hussein; Talking Trash in New Orleans

Aired October 19, 2005 - 13:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Defiant, prideful and contentious. But in the end, Saddam Hussein did what the presiding judge told him to do today. Rizgar Amin, described as methodical and focussed, is one of the five judges hearing this first case against the deposed Iraqi leader, a pressure-cooker situation, if there ever was one, with legal eyes all over the world trained on how they conduct business.
My next guest knows what they've within through already. He helped set up the new court system there in the new Iraq. Judge Stephen Orlofsky, a former federal judge, joins me live once again from Philadelphia.

Judge, great to see you.

STEPHEN ORLOFSKY, FMR. FEDERAL JUDGE: Glad to be here, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, you were there, helping the traditional Iraqi judicial system get up and running, and you made a number of recommendations for the tribunal, and one of them was that they should establish a judicial college. Did that happen? And has it been successful?

ORLOFSKY: As far as I know, it did happen, a judicial college was established, to help judges who are going to sit in the traditional Iraqi civil and criminal court. But as part of the special Iraqi tribunal statute, there is also training, which has been conducted for both prosecutors and the judges who were appointed to the tribunal.

PHILLIPS: Now, you were pretty amazed when you went there. You met so many of these judges and tried to prep so many of these judges. Tell me about the ones you were a little concerned about, and then tell me the ones that you were impressed with.

ORLOFSKY: Well, I interviewed approximately 40 Iraqi judges when I visited Iraq in May and June of 2003. All about five had been appointed by Saddam. The other five had been appointed by local U.S. military commanders.

Frankly, I was taken aback by the low level of competence and ability and, more importantly, the initiative of many of these judges who had been appointed by Saddam. So it became clear to us that, in addition to vetting those who have been sitting on the Iraqi court, there was a need for training, to get judges up to speed and make sure that they were familiar with developing law and the legal concepts of basic things such as case management. PHILLIPS: Now, these five judges on the tribunal, how are they selected? How are they vetted? And how do we know they won't be corrupt?

ORLOFSKY: Well, they were -- the special tribunal statute was enacted in December 2003, before the handoff to the Iraqis, that is before the Iraqis became a sovereign nation again. However, once the handoff occurred, the Iraqi governing council adopted the statute. And there was a pretty intense program of vetting these individuals, both prosecutors and judges, who were going to participate on the special Iraqi tribunal. And that included interviewing them, conducting background checks, similar to the kinds of background checks that are conducted when judges are vetted in the United States. And input was solicited from the Iraqi Judicial Council, as well as, I'm sure, members of the bar and even the public.

So I'm reasonably confident that the individuals who were appointed to sit as judges on this tribunal were carefully vetted to make sure that they possess the requisite degree of moral character. In fact, that's part of the statute that says -- it says that these judges shall be of high moral character and integrity. So I'm sure they were carefully vetted.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about the presiding judge, Judge Rizgar Amin. What do you know about him? What do you know about his background?

ORLOFSKY: I don't know much about him. I did not meet him when I was there. I understand he's from northern Iraq. He's a Kurd, that he had his own issues with the Saddam regime while that regime was in power. What little I know...

PHILLIPS: Was he threatened? Was he threatened by Saddam, or any of his family members?

ORLOFSKY: I don't know if he was -- well, what I'm told by folks I've spoken with is he had his issues with them, which means that for whatever reason -- and it didn't take much during the Saddam regime -- he had some problems with them.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's talk security. Only one of the judges, the presiding judge that we just talked about, has decided to show his face, mention his name. We haven't seen anybody else. Security must be incredible for these judges. And they have a lot of stake.

ORLOFSKY: There's no question that security is a very important issue in this trial. And the fact that four of the five judges who are sitting on this tribunal to try Saddam and his co-defendants have not identified themselves, I think, speaks volumes about just what a risky proposition it is.

Judges in Iraq have been targeted. Some have been assassinated. And I'm sure that there are many Saddam sympathizers still in Iraq who would love to do what they can to either attack these judges or their families. PHILLIPS: And then there's the concern about witness protection program also. I mean, in a couple of weeks, we're going to hear from witnesses. And they're taking tremendous risks.

ORLOFSKY: There's no question that witnesses and judges, and, in fact, prosecutors -- anyone who participates in the trial of this case against Saddam and his co-defendants -- is at risk to some degree.

PHILLIPS: Judge Stephen Orlofsky, always a pleasure. Thanks for your time.

ORLOFSKY: Thank you for having me, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: It's always a pleasure.

Next hour, here on LIVE FROM, we're going to take a closer look at the members of Saddam Hussein's defense team.

Who are they and what challenges will they face? International law expert and attorney Rahul Manchanda will give us his take.

We're going to check in on Hurricane Wilma also, right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Welcome back. I'm meteorologist Jacqui Jeras in the CNN Weather Center, taking a look at monster Wilma.

Look at this storm. This thing is huge now, encompassing the entire northwestern part of the Caribbean. Check out the cloud cover across central America, hitting the Yucatan peninsula, bringing cloud cover in across parts of Cuba.

And a few sprinkles trying to pop up here across the Florida keys already, just to give you an idea of how large this storm is. It's enormous, more than 300 miles across for the tropical storm force winds.

The hurricane force winds -- about 100 miles across now and that is getting larger. The storm in the record books as the most intense hurricane ever in the Atlantic basin. It's a category 5. Winds are 175 miles per hour.

And it's about 325 miles southeast of Cozumel and we are concerned that Cozumel or northern parts of the Yucatan peninsula could get hit directly with this storm. The forecast track has been shifting steadily toward the west, bringing it very close.

Either way, they're certainly going to be getting walloped with category 4 winds, possibly and also a lot of heavy rain. Heavy rain in Cuba expected, as much as one to two feet. And then the storm picks up speed and makes a beeline towards Florida's peninsula.

It's still too soon to tell exactly where it could hit. Everybody in Florida needs to be prepared because, even if you don't take a direct hit from this storm, it's so wide that most of central and southern Florida are going to get a good whopping with this storm.

We are expecting it to be a major category status, a 3 or better at landfall, and that will probably happen late on Saturday. Kyra?

PHILLIPS: All right, Jacqui. Thank you so much.

Well, shrink-wrapped refrigerators dot the Crescent City right now. Our Ed Lavandera shows you where all those stinky, disgusting appliances go for their final resting place. We're on the job as New Orleans cleans up, later on LIVE FROM.

And is it the summer of the python? Check this out. A South Florida koi pond has an unwelcome but adorably crate-trained guest. The whole take-down caught on tape, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: OK, gentle viewers, a word of warning here. You're about to see a man make a very bad decision. It costs him a little blood and there's a bill slimy snake involved. So if any of that bothers you, well, brace yourself. What not to do from our affiliate WSVN, Luanne Sorrell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUANNE SORREL, WSVN REPORTER (voice-over): Look who popped up in a koi pond. This ten-foot Burmese python, making itself home in Tommy Compton's (ph) backyard. Fearing for his exotic fish, the owner and a friend jumping into action, trying to pounce on the python. But charming this snake didn't go so well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh! (EXPLETIVE)

SORREL: The snake not going down easy, getting back into the water, and the battle is on, even sinking its teeth into Tim Callahan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh! Ow!

SORREL: Before they finally get it into a pillow case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, are you kidding me? I guess some little black razors are cornsnakes, the little baby ones. Oh, (INAUDIBLE). This one here is grande. It cuts you and bit him. No, they're very dangerous. Nobody should ever touch one of these snakes.

SORREL: The female python much more friendly this morning .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems to be somebody's pet. She feels more comfortable inside the cage than she does outside.

SORREL: And these snake sightings becoming more common. Over the past two weeks, we've seen a python pounce on a Miami Garden's cat, another gobble up a turkey and a third in the Everglades trying to swallow an alligator before its stomach splits open. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was only 31- years-old when he seized power, in what he called a people's coup, in Ghana in 1979. Air Force Flight Lieutenant Jerry John Rawlings, the man known to many simply as J.J., later installed himself as president, and would go on to rule Ghana for the next dictate as a strong-armed dictator.

JERRY JOHN RAWLINGS: You can buy someone's loyalty.

OKWU: Early in his second decade of power, Rawlings changed course, looking to the west for aid, and introducing a series of economic reforms. He was elected and then re-elected as president, before he gave up power voluntarily in 2001. The flamboyant Rawlings, a qualified helicopter pilot, still takes pleasure in flying himself around. And continues to play an active role behind the scenes, rallying Ghana's fledgling opposition.

RAWLINGS: I don't have any regrets, because by our intervention and the sacrifice that we made, as painful as it was, I know that's what saved the nation.

OKWU: He's also busy writing his memoirs and says he'll soon be publishing his account of his sometimes turbulent rule:

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, Saddam Hussein on trial. We'll take a closer look at his defense team, and get world reaction to the first day in court for the former dictator. That's ahead in just a few minutes.

But first, one of our favorite buzzword to come out of post- Katrina New Orleans was de-watering. But apparently no words can adequately describe the city's biggest problem right now.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is talking trash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON BISBEE, ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS: Pick one up and then go on to the next one.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's one part of Don Bisbee's job that doesn't sit well with him: the smell.

BISBEE: It will literally almost make you vomit on the spot.

LAVANDERA: Bisbee is from Seattle. He's in New Orleans on a month-long mission to help clean the city streets. For two days, he's managed a team whose job is to clear out refrigerators and other appliances tossed to the curb.

BISBEE: This is our bobcat down there.

LAVANDERA: Bisbee's biggest responsibility is to make sure what's in the refrigerators stays in. But, occasionally, putrid juice spills out like the little trail that came from the bottom of this refrigerator as it was being hoisted into a truck.

(on camera): And, of course, the worse part is when you pick them up and the heavy equipment either cracks the door or things start leaking.

BISBEE: That's why we've been shrink-wrapping it. We found that works pretty good.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Cranes move the appliances like little sugar cubes being dropped into a cup of coffee. From here, they end up at a refrigerator graveyard.

STEVE WILHELMS, ENGINEER: This is it, the Gentilly landfill.

LAVANDERA: There are 12 acres of space reserved for appliances, a massive collection that engineer Steve Wilhelms can't bear to spend much time around.

WILHELMS: I don't know that I've ever smelled anything quite like this. I'm not sure it's a describable smell. You'd have to experience before you'd know what it is. It doesn't smell like chicken.

LAVANDERA: Rotten food and harmful gases like freon have to be removed from this debris. It's then disinfected and crushed into bails of metal for recycling. Experts say getting this garbage off the streets is an urgent priority.

(on camera): The longer these things sit out on the streets...

WILHELMS: ... the greater the risk is -- the higher potential is to have problems, health hazards as a consequence.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Appliances aren't the only hazard. Special crews also have to deal with removing materials like bleach, oil and gasoline, which brings us to one of the most glaring problems you see in every neighborhood.

(on camera): The Army Corps of Engineers estimates there are probably 100,000 cars in the New Orleans area that need to be disposed of. Right now, there are city crews going out and towing away about 100 cars a day. Unfortunately, at that rate, this monumental task would take three years to finish.

(voice-over): So officials are working on way to get abandoned vehicles off the streets faster. But that's only a fraction of the work. Twenty-two million tons of debris needs to be cleaned out of the city. And Don Bisbee knows it's up to him to keep the dump trucks moving.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, New Orleans. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: The most intense Atlantic hurricane on record. Wilma explodes into a Category 5 storm and tracks toward Florida. We're your hurricane headquarters.

Saddam Hussein on trial with the world watching. Will his defense strategy work? An international law expert weighs in this hour.

Freeh speaks freely. Former FBI director Louis Freeh joins me live. I'll talk to him about his new book, his criticism of President Clinton, and why did not take career advice to become a plumber.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

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