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Bringing New Life to Civil Rights Cold Cases; Air Force Academy Coach Under Fire For Comments; CIA Leak Investigation Continues

Aired October 26, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the News," no reports of casualties when a packed commuter train left the tracks in Liverpool, England. It happened on an underground line about an hour and a half ago. The rail operator tells CNN all passengers were evacuated. Reports say about 90 people were on board.
New worries about bird flu. This time it's Croatia, where two wild swans have tested positive for the deadly strain known as H5N1. Tests are also under way in Greece on another suspected case. So far, the most deadly strain of the virus has been found in birds in at least 17 countries.

Back in business. Descendants of Carl Faberge have opened a new shop in Moscow. Faberge, of course, is synonymous with the intricate eggs and figurines that he created for the Russian czars. He fled the country after the 1917 revolution.

Demanding your civil rights and being brutally murdered for that act of courage. It happened all too frequently in the course of history in our nation. But the savagery, perhaps, was unmatched in the 1950s and '60s, as a few whites lashed out at African-Americans and their white supporters.

Two of those infamous cases -- Mississippi 1955. You remember right here, 14-year-old Emmett Till, beaten to a pulp and then shot in the head. His crime, whistling at a white woman? Two men arrested, later acquitted by an all male, all white jury. Thanks in part to a new film, that case has been reopened.

Now, Mississippi 1964, three civil rights workers, including two young white men, ambushed and killed by a Ku Klux Klan mob. Fast forward to the present. The case reopened right here in June this year and former Klansmen Edgar Ray Killen was found guilty of manslaughter in that case. Eighty-year-old Killen was sentenced to 60 years in prisons.

Both of these cases were, at one point, considered too cold to reopen. A measure now in Senate Committee aims to bring new life to such civil rights cases. The unsolved civil rights crime act is expected to be approved by the full Senate and become law.

Republican Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee is one of the bill's sponsors. He joins me now live in Capitol Hill. Senator, good to see you.

SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), TENNESSEE: Good to see you. PHILLIPS: Well, tell me why you got involved with this. Why be a part of this bill?

ALEXANDER: Well, we had our own terrorists in the United States since back in the 1950s, when I was still in high school. And some of us in the Senate, especially Senator Jim Talent of Missouri and Senator Chris Dodd of Connecticut thought we needed a special effort to try to break these cold cases that had to do with civil rights in the 1950s.

PHILLIPS: So, now you've proposed this bill, a bill that would actually create an office within the Justice Department to specifically reopen cold cases, civil rights cases, pre-1970. Any cases that you can think of that you remember as you were growing up that could actually be reopened now?

ALEXANDER: Well, all of us -- I was 15 years old in 1955, and I remember this Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney case, which was 1964. I also remember Emmett Till's case, which is when I was in high school. And the brutality of it then, even me growing up in the South, was shocking. And the more we've learned about it, it's shocking.

And even though it's old, even though it's cold, I think for our country, it's important that we do our best while we still have witnesses and while we still have suspects to try to break the case. And so this would $5 million appropriationed (ph) with special effort the Department of Justice to bring justice to these old civil rights cases.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's interesting -- you mention the Emmett Till case. It's something we've covered a lot here on LIVE FROM. Keith Beauchamp, a dedicated filmmaker, ten years of his life investigating that case. And now Emmett Till's remains being exhumed. The case is reopened and there are individuals still alive that could be indicted. It's amazing to think that it's taken so long for this to happen. So, looking forward now -- and as more cases could be reopened, what will this do? How will this affect race relations in America right now?

ALEXANDER: Well, I think it helps to bring closure to that part of our history. You know, when James Meredith was denied entrance to Ole Miss in the 1960s, we didn't just apologize for that, we said, put him in, admit him. And we shouldn't just look back on the Emmett Till case and say, oh, what a sad thing that is. We ought to do our best to bring the killers to justice if they can be found. America is a work in progress. We're always trying to reach equal opportunity and fairness. We don't always make it. But we ought to always keep trying. And that's what this bill is about.

PHILLIPS: And one case that you talked about, when you talk about the key components of this measure. One of those components, seeking the truth. And I'm thinking of the one case of Birdia Keglar, 1966. She was a voting rights advocate. She had just met with Senator Kennedy, Robert Kennedy. And then just after that, a patrolman said she died in a car accident with her friend. Well, of course, when they found the bodies, she had been mutilated. And many people saying she was lynched and nothing was ever done about it. So where do you begin on a case like that, Senator? Within this new office, within the Justice Department, how do you start picking the cases and investigating them again?

ALEXANDER: Well, trained investigators and trained prosecutors always have that challenge. But that case would be a good example. Any of us could refer cases to that division and then they'd have to make that judgment. But the important thing is -- you know, we look at Iraq and we see terrorism there. We need to remember, we had terrorism here, and not just in the well-publicized cases.

For many African-Americans, especially in the South before the civil rights movement, it was an age of terror. And the Ku Klux Klan was a dangerous group at that time. And we need to make it clear that in our country, we put an end to that. Even for those cases so long ago. We don't want there to ever be an idea that we tolerate terrorism or leave those kinds of cases unsolved if we can possibly help it.

PHILLIPS: And what's amazing, Senator, the Ku Klux Klan still active in parts of this country. And there are even reports of possible lynchings that have come forward and are being talked about. I mean, how do you -- it's just -- it's mind-boggling that we're still talking about this in 2005.

ALEXANDER: Well, we don't have anything in 2005 to compare with what we had then in terms of race. The Klan terrorizing black families, black neighborhoods, black individuals, scaring them to death. It wasn't just these civil rights workers coming down from the North, it was a pervasive problem. And we now know that. We can do something about it.

The Klan has a right to exist in this country, but no one has a right to lynch people or to terrorize people or to kill people, and this helps make that clear, that that chapter in our history is something we'll never forget and that we intend to do something about.

PHILLIPS: So Senator, any idea how many cold cases there are?

ALEXANDER: I don't know. I don't know. But one advantage of a division in the Department of Justice in the civil rights section to look at cold cases before 1970 is that they'll have to start with a list and then they'll have to figure out in which cases are there witnesses and are there suspects. And, hopefully, in cases like the case of Emmett Till and others like that, some progress can be made.

PHILLIPS: Senator Lamar Alexander, I hope that you'll keep in touch with us and let us know how this develops. And when that office, indeed, opens up, we want to be there and hear about that first case that's going to be reopened.

ALEXANDER: Thank you for inviting me.

PHILLIPS: Thank you, senator. Still ahead on LIVE FROM, some Monday morning quarterbacking as one college football coach under fire for his comments about player performance and race. We'll have the details, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Now, one of those stories that makes us shake our heads in amazement. A comment by a very public figure that stirs racial controversy today. The head football coach at the Air Force Academy attributing his team's latest loss in part, to the African- American players on the Texas Christian University team.

Coach Fisher DeBerry was quoted as saying that TCU had more black players who could run very, very well. And, of course, there have been similar incidents in the past.

One that comes to mind involved the former CBS football analyst, Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder, who was fired in 1988 for his comments about black players.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY "THE GREEK" SNYDER, FORMER CBS FOOTBALL ANALYST: The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way -- because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs.

This goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trading, the owner -- the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Joining us now with more on the comments of the Air Force Academy football coach, Jesse Kurtz of our affiliate KKTV in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Obviously, it's not the first time a comment like that, Jesse, has been made. But you were there in the room when he made the comments. What was the buzz? How did people react? Did they say, what did he just say?

JESSE KURTZ, KKTV REPORTER: Most of us who know Fisher DeBerry very well and have dealt with him were pretty shocked by what he said. He didn't come out and say anything that was inherently racist, but certainly insensitive.

And a lot of us who know him -- he's a devoted Christian, he is such a devoted family man, loves his players. He has African-American coaches on his staff, he recruits African-American players, so a lot of us right away thought, what's going on here?

He was given chance, a number of times, to elaborate on what he said and he came back to, he meant African-American players. He didn't back down from that, which is certainly Fisher-esque. He'll say what he means and he will stick to it, but he certainly caused a buzz with all of us because this certainly is not Fisher DeBerry.

PHILLIPS: All right, Jesse -- just so those watching that may not have heard his comments straight from his mouth, let's listen to it one more time and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER DEBERRY, FOOTBALL COACH, AIR FORCE ACADEMY: Afro-American kids can run very, very well. That doesn't mean that Caucasian kids and other descents can't run, but it's very obvious to me that they run extremely well.

I just want to recruit speed. We need to find speed, as much as anything. But the black athlete seems to have, you know, statistically program, program, program -- you know, seems to have an edge as far as the speed is concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: You know, Jesse, I wonder -- just to sort of look at the other side for a minute, that maybe some of the black athletes might stand up and say, Well, yes, he's speaking the truth, we're great athletes. He's right. That makes us proud.

I'm curious, you know, while some are saying, whoa, that was so racist. Is it possible or is there any talk that maybe other athletes or other individuals are looking at it from a different perspective?

KURTZ: We're hoping to get that answer today, Kyra.

We're hoping to talk to some of the academy players. We put in calls to former players who have played for Fisher DeBerry. By and large, the community that we've heard on sports talk radio, this is all over here in Colorado, as you might expect.

Everyone is saying this is not Fisher DeBerry. He doesn't mean anything like that. This is pretty much in reaction to the TCU game where they suffered their worst loss of the season by a long shot.

Former players who have played for him have contacted local sports talk radio stations, say this isn't Fisher DeBerry. Fisher DeBerry meant nothing racist by his comments. We're hoping to hear from some of the players that play for him right now.

Me guessing? I would guess that they certainly would back Fisher DeBerry because he is such a player's coach, such a community guy. He means so much to the Colorado Springs community, that I would bet that they will come to his backing on this because of what he's done for this community and what he means to those players, present and past.

PHILLIPS: Jesse, anyone in the room -- I know that the players weren't in the room and you're working on getting comments from the players, black and white athletes. But did anybody stop him and say "Sir, what did you just say? What did you mean by that?" Did anybody make an attempt to challenge him?

KURTZ: Absolutely. The first three questions out of the box were, "what did you mean?" This all stemmed from an article couple days ago that Fisher was quoted saying, we need more minorities to compete.

Well, someone asked him, "What do you mean by minorities?" And that's when he said, "We need more black athletes," because it was evident TCU came in and had a good number of black athletes and they were able to run by us.

That's kind of where all this has stemmed from. The guy who wrote the column who was definitely was taking the angle in the press conference, a good columnist for the "Colorado Springs Gazette" asked him, "Do you think there's something inherently wrong with saying we need more black athletes?"

KURTZ: Fisher's response to him was, have you looked at NFL rosters? Have you looked at college rosters? You look at them and a majority of those are filled by black athletes. So, he definitely tried to make sure that Fisher meant what he meant and certainly he did.

Milo Bryant's -- his problem with Fisher's comments is, Milo Bryant played college football. He is an African-American columnist, certainly would be an authority on the topic.

PHILLIPS: And he was in the room?

KURTZ: He was the one that basically was asking...

PHILLIPS: ... challenged him.

KURTZ: ... a lot of the questions and wrote the column today. He's not of the thinking that African-American athletes are physically superior to any other race, including Caucasian. He doesn't believe that one bit. His problem, and he pointed it out in his column today, is such that Fisher has the ability to reach a number of people, including area youth, including high schools.

Kilo is a personal trainer. His worry is Fisher is telling the 12-year-old athlete, the 13-year-old athlete, the high school athlete, that if you're white, you don't have a chance to play at a high level, NFL or college. If you're black, you don't have to work as hard because you are superior. That's kind of where Milo's problem with his comments is because he's telling these people in this blanket statement that you don't have a chance and you basically maybe go play golf or tennis or some other sport, but football may not be an avenue for you.

PHILLIPS: Jesse Kurtz of our affiliate KKTV there in there in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Sure appreciate your time, Jesse. You made some interesting points. We're going to continue talking about it tomorrow. Much more on the issue here on LIVE FROM.

And we want to hear from you. What do you think about the coach's comments? Go ahead and e-mail us at livefrom@CNN.com. We'll read some of your e-mails tomorrow and, of course, we'll debate what the coach had to say.

Well, straight ahead, probing the leak. The CIA case that has the nation's capital on edge. We're going to get the inside scoop from Wolf Blitzer, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: More now on our top story, the CIA leak case and the possible involvement of Vice President Dick Cheney. For that, we turn to Wolf Blitzer who covered Cheney for, do I say 25 years, before becoming a CNN anchor, Wolf?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I've covered him for a long time when he was -- way back, I remember when he was the White House chief of staff under then President Gerald Ford. He went on to become a Congressman for Wyoming. I was CNN's Pentagon correspondent when he was the defense secretary during the first Gulf War, and I've covered him all these years he's been the vice president. So we go way back.

PHILLIPS: Sorry about that, I was listening to some things going on here in the control room, Wolf. Possibly some stuff happening on exactly what you're talking about. We'll see you in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Meanwhile, still ahead, we're talking music to make wine, too. Can classic tunes help harvest a better grape? On Italian winemaker says yes. We'll take you to Tuscany, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Can a little Mozart make a better merlot? A winemaker in the heart of Tuscany sure thinks so, and the hills of his Italian vineyard are alive with music, literally.

Here's CNN's Alessio Vinci.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If good wine is all about sunshine and soil, can a good tune be just as beneficial? Carlo Cignozzi believes yes. Music, he says, helps grapes grow stronger and healthier. So instead of using chemicals to keep parasites, molds and bacteria away, Cignozzi set up a network of speakers he says delights his vineyards 24 hours a day with the likes of Beethoven, Mahler and Vivaldi. The grapes closest to the speakers he says, ripen faster.

CARLOS CIGNOZZI, WINEMAKER: You can see here. So the first row near the speaker, no, are very, very red. And if you go on, if you go on -- far away.

VINCI (on camera): Go further away from the speaker?

CIGNOZZI: Very far away from the speaker, the bunches are green.

VINCI (voice-over): Carlos says people in town believe he is, in his words, a little crazy, or perhaps just jealous of his success. All of his production, about 35,000 bottles a year, are quickly sold, a third of it to the U.S.

(on camera): Skeptics may balk, but the benefits of music on these vineyards are being studied at a university in Florence not too far away from here. Researchers there say it is too early to draw any conclusions, but they do say that early tests show that these vineyards are growing stronger because of the sound.

(voice-over): And what the grapes listen to, the owner says, is just as crucial.

(on camera): What about other music? Not only classical, but rock or samba?

CIGNOZZI: No rock and samba. Because if the people in the wine room, you shot the rock in samba, for day and night, be kind of crazy, mad, because I prefer classical.

VINCI: You don't want the wine to go crazy?

CIGNOZZI: No, no.

VINCI (voice-over): Alessio Vinci, CNN, Montalcino, Italy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Perfect segue to Chad Myers as we are going to, of course, check in on the severe weather going on. You know, you have to good weather to grow good grapes and a little good music. I mean, we all enjoy fine wine, right?

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, that wraps up this Wednesday edition of LIVE FROM. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Now, Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

BLITZER: I'm Wolf Blitzer, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the U.S. and around the world to bring you the day's top stories.

Happening now, it's 3:00 p.m. in the South Florida disaster zone where residents rocked by Wilma wait hours for water and ice. Millions of people are still without power, and some may have to wait weeks for the lights to go back on.

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