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Call for Probe Into Leak About Secret CIA Prisons; Pentagon Issues Guidelines of Treatment of Detainees; Election Day

Aired November 08, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: New developments in Washington. An investigation into who leaked information about CIA secret prisons. We'll take you to Capitol Hill live.
Fists and accusations fly in the wake of a big terror investigation. Australia says it's foiled a huge bombing plot.

And pay for a replay? Well, if you miss your favorite network TV show, would you be willing to fork over some cash just to see it?

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Kyra Phillips today. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

First there was the CIA scandal. Now a secret CIA prison controversy. It tops our "Security Watch" report. This time, the Republicans are calling for an investigation.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert want to know who told the media about previously undisclosed U.S. interrogation centers in eastern Europe and elsewhere abroad.

With the latest, our Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry sorts out all of this -- Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Betty.

That's right, CNN has confirmed that congressional Republican leaders have launched this special joint investigation to get to the bottom of who leaked classified information to "The Washington Post" in this major front page piece last week, as you said, revealing information about the secret prisons called black sites, where allegedly terror suspects are held in secret.

I can tell you a senior Republican telling CNN as well that officials here believe that this information was leaked by current and former CIA officials. That apparently only a select few people actually knew this information, and they believe this information was leaked to embarrass the Bush administration in the middle of a major Senate debate right now over an amendment by Senator John McCain to basically toughen anti-torture standards of these terror suspects.

As it's already been reported, Vice President Cheney has opposed Senator McCain's move to tighten these anti-torture standards. And that is very interesting, that that's the backdrop to this investigation. I can tell you, a short while ago, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid told CNN that he basically believes this is a show by the Republicans, that trying to get ahead of the Valerie Plame leak investigation. A lot of criticism the Republicans have not moved faster on that. Also allegations that the Republicans have not investigated aggressively the allegations that the administration lied, maybe manipulated intelligence in the buildup to the Iraq war.

But what's curious is that if this is a distraction from all of that, it's doing nothing -- it's not doing that at all. In fact, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi putting out a very sharp statement a couple of moments ago, saying that the fact that the Republicans are launching this investigation means they should also launch investigations finally into the Valerie Plame case. But also Democrats up here saying it's time for the Republicans to investigate whether the secret prisons themselves exist.

That has never been acknowledged by the administration. And, in fact, yesterday, as you know, President Bush said that the administration does not engage in torture of terror suspects. Democrats up here saying, now the Republicans are taking a look at this, they need to reveal whether or not these prisons exist -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Ed Henry. Thank you for that.

You know, a lot questions are being raised today. In fact, last hour we showed you a White House briefing that got pretty heated. The topic: torture.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is at the White House and she joins us now with the latest.

I understand things even got hotter as it continued?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Betty, I'm going to try to make sense of the frustration with the White House Press Corps, as well as the American people, who want some answers about this.

Ed was right. The president yesterday made it very clear the United States does not support torture.

However, as you know, Senator John McCain, the Republican-led Congress, has put out this amendment basically saying that torture is not allowed, neither is inhumane treatment of U.S. detainees. The Senate approving this 90-9.

On the other hand, you have Vice President Dick Cheney, who has really led the effort in trying to get an exemption for the CIA for that particular amendment to try to get as much flexibility and allow the president more authority in dealing with the most dangerous detainees.

Of course, many people looking at that say there seems to be a disconnect here. Which one is it? Is it we do not support torture, or is there an exemption for the CIA when it comes to this amendment condoning torture? That is the issue at the heart of this press conference.

Here's how Scott McClellan responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's made it very clear that are we do not torture.

QUESTION: What's the vice president doing?

MCCLELLAN: I just told you.

QUESTION: No, you did not.

MCCLELLAN: If you...

QUESTION: I'm not trying to be...

MCCLELLAN: No, I'm not going to let you -- are mischaracterizing what this is about. It's put in the statement of administration policy, April. And look, you can keep showboating for the cameras, but we made clear what our views are.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCLELLAN: Go ahead, Bill.

Well, you are. Let's be honest about it.

QUESTION: No. I'm being honest. I want an honest answer from you.

MCCLELLAN: And you got in the statement of administration policy.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: That is not -- that is not...

MCCLELLAN: You got in the statement of administration policy. There are already laws on books that cover these issues.

QUESTION: Do you know the administration's...

MCCLELLAN: Yes. And that's what it is.

QUESTION: Well, give it to us, then.

MCCLELLAN: Go look on our Web site. I'll be glad to provide it to you. And I just told what you it is. Are you not listening? I just told you what it is.

QUESTION: Scott, the Department of Defense is revising...

MCCLELLAN: I think you need to calm down a little bit and let me respond. Go ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So Betty, I know the correspondent personally who was involved in that exchange, a very capable, very even-handed correspondent. What you're looking at is simply a piece of what happened in that briefing.

A lot of reporters essentially asking Scott very pointedly here to answer that question, essentially to explain why is it that the vice president has been fighting for this exemption for the CIA? One thing that Scott did mention in the briefing -- and I want to go to that -- he mentioned the statement of administration policy.

At least on the OMB Web site, there are two portions where you can actually see the administration policy that he mentioned. I'm going to read it very briefly.

It says, "If legislation is presented that would restrict the president's authority to protect Americans effectively from terrorist attack and bring terrorists to justice, the president's senior advisers would recommend that he veto the bill."

Trying to find out what is the thinking of the administration behind the vice president's move, I talked to many people. And essentially, they explain it this way: they believe that if you give the enemy too much information, if the fear of the unknown when it comes to questioning detainees is taken away, that that makes it less effective, that interrogation process.

They say that as long as they believe they're following international norms, that if you give that kind of information, that it is unnecessary, and at certain times counterproductive -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Definitely a serious topic, and obviously the frustration is being felt there.

Suzanne Malveaux. Thank you.

Well, the controversy over secret prisons abuse of prisoners and torture are the focus on a new Pentagon guideline that deals with the treatment of detainees.

And for that, we want to turn our attention to Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. She joins us with the latest.

Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Betty.

While all of this is going on across Washington, from Capitol Hill to the White House, here at the Pentagon what they are dealing with is the same issue, but related only to how detainees being held by the Defense Department are treated. The Pentagon says it has learned the lesson of all of the reports and investigations into Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, and that they are tightening their procedures. Putting out basic policy documents for the first time, spelling out what is allowed and what is not.

So in a first step, there is a new statement out about interrogation policy. And what it says is that no torture, physical or mental, will be tolerated. And that practices such as using working dogs, for example, to intimidate and harass detainees will not be allowed.

The hope, perhaps, is that some of this will forestall any further movement by Senator McCain and some of those on Capitol Hill to try and put it into law. But whether it does or not certainly is a political judgment to be made.

Senator McCain spoke earlier today on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Everybody agrees that has been in combat and knows these situations, like General Colin Powell and others believe, that the price we pay for being able to torture people is huge throughout the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: One of the interesting wrinkles is this document has some specifics in it. It says, for example, again, mental or physical torture is not allowed. It also says that non-DOD questioners, such as the CIA, when they might be interrogating someone that is held by the Defense Department, well, then the CIA has to obey Pentagon rules. And it establishes very specific procedures for reporting violations of policy.

But, Betty, what's really still on the table here is the broader question of abusive, degrading or humiliating treatment, if you will, of detainees. How much of that is allowed? Under what circumstances and under international law would that type of activity, humiliation, fall under some torture-type of definition?

The next step here at the Pentagon, the Army is expected to put out a field manual. It will have a classified annex that spells out in much more detail what exactly U.S. military personnel can do to the detainees they may be holding or questioning -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thanks for clarifying.

Well, you'll want to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

We want to turn now to today's off-year election. It's probably a safe bet that there are a lot of nervous Republicans closely watching several key contests. One big question, will the rash of recent troubles in the Bush administration and the GOP itself be on the minds of voters?

Clues may be found, though, in New Jersey and Virginia, where voters are electing new governors today. Elsewhere, voters are picking mayors in New York, Detroit, Houston, Boston, San Diego and Atlanta.

Also being decided, several controversial ballot measures, including four pushed by Republican California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. Now, Governor Schwarzenegger has got his work cut out for him. All four of the ballot proposals he's backing were trailing in the polls going into today's elections.

Generating as much, if not more attention, at least in San Diego, is the fight for the mayor's seat between the Democratic owner of a surf shop and her Republican opponent, who is supported by many of the city's business leaders.

Joining us in San Diego with the latest is Kris Van Cleave of our affiliate XETV.

Kris, what's the latest?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE, REPORTER, XETV: Well, good afternoon.

Certainly the governor has been pushing his propositions very hard. In fact, he's been in San Diego six times in the last two weeks or so. The most recent was last night. He stopped in Del Mar.

He's essentially been trying to shore up support, shore up his base for these propositions. There are four of them that he's been pushing.

Proposition 74 is a teacher tenure initiative; 75 would limited hour unions can spend money for political purposes. Proposition 76 he says is basically the state living within its means. It limits how much money the state could spend based on how much it takes in. And then Proposition 77 has to do with redistricting.

Now, as the governor's popularity has declined here in the state, so has support for these propositions. In fact, it really never got off the ground, according to major polls which show all four measures struggling.

An "LA Times" poll, in fact, has only Proposition 74, the teacher tenure initiative, even close to passing.

One of the reasons the governor has been coming to San Diego so often is because it's a bit more of a right-leaning county. So the measures are doing better here in San Diego than they are statewide. But even here, the only one that's clearly passing is Proposition 74. The others are too close to call.

Now, for San Diego voters, they have another reason to go to the polls today. In fact, this is the third time in about a year that San Diegans have headed to the polls trying to elect a mayor. Now, originally, they elected the incumbent in a very bizarre runoff election where there was a write-in bid. The governor -- or the mayor -- excuse me -- then resigned amid controversy and scandal. It turns out the city had underfunded its pension program by about $1.5 billion. The SEC and the FBI are investigating.

So the mayor resigned.

The interim mayor was then convicted of federal corruptions charges. He resigned.

We had an election. They failed to produce one winner. So now we're having a runoff between two candidates, a former police chief, Jerry Sanders, and a surfer chick, Donna Frye, who's a current city councilwoman.

Now, both of those people voted this morning. Jerry Sanders, the former police chief, is the front-runner. Our polls show him with about a 7 percent lead going into the election. He has experience with large organizations, and he says that's going to make the difference for him.

When he was the police chief, it was the third largest employer of city employees at the time. He's also worked with the United Way and the Red Cross here in town, turning around those organizations.

Now, Donna Frye has much more of a popular support. She's much more grassroots, has sort of won the home spun appeal. She launched a write-in bid for mayor and almost won.

And now she's hoping she can take that of being the city hall outsider with her to win her the mayor's office. Now, even though she's on the city council, she has been the lone voice of dissent through much of this pension fund, which has become a bit of a debacle for the city. And whoever is elected to be mayor will have to sort out, how do you replace or find funding for $1.5 billion that's missing from the pension fund?

Now, that's really the latest here from San Diego. Voters have until 8:00 local time to make up their minds on the propositions, as well as the mayor's race here are in San Diego.

NGUYEN: Kris Van Cleave giving us the latest, including words like "surfer chick today. All right.

Thanks from affiliate XETV. Thank you.

Well, trying to put out the flames in France. Will emergency measures be able to stop the violent protests? We're live from Paris.

Also, fighting bird flu, and efforts to keep up with the demand for the most effective treatment for it. We have details on the race against time right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) NGUYEN: Want to give you a live look now. Senator Harry Reid talking about prewar intelligence.

Let's take a listen.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: Unless a pardon is ruled out by President Bush, the American people will certainly not learn the truth. No one is above the law: Scooter Libby, Vice President Cheney or President Bush.

Senator Durbin.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: We stood before you a week ago having made a motion for a closed session. The objective of that motion was to make sure the American people knew the truth, that we completed the investigation in the Senate Intelligence Committee so that we could learn once and for all whether any elected official, whether any member of this administration, misused intelligence information to lead the American people to believe we had no choice but to invade Iraq.

This letter that we're sending today to the White House making it clear the president should not pardon Mr. Libby or anyone else involved in the leaking of classified information is another step to make sure the American people learn the truth. That is the bottom line.

We owe the truth not only to the people we represent, we certainly owe it to our soldiers and their families. People with their lives on the line every single day for this country deserve to know the truth. We're going to come before the American people today, and in the future, to make certain that the truth is served.

NGUYEN: You've been listening to senators Harry Reid and Dick Durbin talk about the information and intelligence used to go to war in Iraq. We'll keep you posted as that develops.

In other news, we're also talking about the tornado in Indiana that caused so much destruction. Residents of a mobile home park leveled by that killer tornado will be able to return for the first time tomorrow.

An overnight tornado Sunday destroyed the park in Evansville. As you'll recall, 18 people were killed there. Four others died in neighboring Warrick County.

Authorities now say everyone who lived at the mobile home park has been accounted for. But they're continuing to an adjacent lake where one body was found yesterday.

We all know it's November, but you wouldn't know it in parts of the Midwest and the South today.

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: Well, he was once considered America's great friend in Iraq. Then he was under investigation for leaking secrets. Is he America's friend again? Well, Iraq's deputy prime minister comes calling in Washington. That's ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Authorities in Australia believe they've averted a catastrophic terrorist attack. So far, 17 suspects have been arrested in the probe, and their arrests caused quite a commotion today, as we hear from Chris Reisen from Channel 7, Australia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS REISEN, SEVEN NEWS REPORTER (voice-over): Outside the Melbourne Magistrates Court, associates of the men caught up in Australia's largest anti-terror operation decided they had had enough media attention. That's Channel 7's Matt Rose (ph) caught in the middle of the melee. Another camera took the force of a chair thrown at the lens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't drink what's on the menu (ph). A drink (ph).

REISEN: Inside court it had been just as explosive as prosecutors detailed an extraordinary plot, nine Melbourne men allegedly hell-bent on carrying out a jihad, or holy war, in Australia. The court heard they had been planning for 16 months, stockpiling the same chemicals used in this year's London bombings and training at a camp outside Melbourne.

Among the accused, alleged leader, Melbourne cleric Abu van Bakr (ph). Each was charged with being a member of a terrorist organization. But in Sydney, the accusation was far more severe. The seven suspects were walked into the police operation center this morning and locked in individual cells, accused of conspiring to plan for a terrorist attack, namely to manufacture explosives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no evidence in these cases that terrorism was contemplated or being planed by any particular persons at any particular time or at any particular place.

REISEN: Under extraordinary security they were driven to central court late this afternoon. The complex was surrounded by a hundred armed police. The accused remained in the holding cells and made no courtroom appearance or appeal for bail. They'll appear again on Friday.

Chris Reisen, 7 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Back here in the U.S., two of the major broadcast television networks are getting into the pay per view business. Well, sort of. Kathleen Hays joins us now live from the New York Stock Exchange to explain.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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