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Chalabi's U.S. Visit; Torture Debate; Operation Steel Curtain; Explosions Blast Hotels in Amman, Jordan

Aired November 09, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: She drowned her five children in a bathtub. Now she's getting a new trial.
Andrea Yates is back in the headlines, and today the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals decided to throw out Yates' murder conviction after a lower court ruled that a psychiatrist gave false testimony during her trial. Yates was sentenced to life in prison in 2001, and during that trial both sides agreed that Yates is mentally ill. But the jury sided with the prosecution, who argued Yates was aware that she was doing -- or she knew what she was doing was wrong.

Now word of a new trial is the latest chapter in the long, sad history of Andrea Yates.

In June 2001, Yates confessed to police that she's drowned -- that she drowned, rather, her five children in the bathtub. And in March, 2002, a jury convicted her on capital murder charges in the deaths of her 6-month-old daughter and two of her sons. The charges did not include the deaths of her two younger sons.

During the trial both the prosecution and defense agreed that Yates is mentally ill, but prosecutors managed to convince jurors that she knew right from wrong at the time of the crime. In January of this year, the Texas First Court of Appeals threw out that conviction, saying an expert wince presented false testimony during that trial. And today the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals refused to consider the lower court's decision, in effect setting the stage for a new trial.

Now, it's amazing what a little time and distance can do for you, even if you've been accused of lying and espionage by officials in Washington. That's the case with Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi. He has held talks today in Washington with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and you may recall that Chalabi was a favorite of the Bush administration before the start of the Iraq war.

Now many accuse him of being responsible, in part, for the flawed prewar intelligence on Iraq. And there's also the matter of allegations that he may have provided sensitive U.S. secrets to Iran.

Joining us now with more on Chalabi's controversial visit to the U.S., our State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel. She's joining me live.

Andrea, just to give a little context to this, I don't know if you saw the president's speech just moments ago. He was talking about relief efforts there in Southeast Asia after the quake. A reporter throwing out a question about Ahmed Chalabi, why he's being allowed to be here in the U.S., considering this controversy. He just walked off.

What did you make of that?

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president doesn't want to be seen as embracing any Iraqi officials ahead of next month's elections. That's what the White House says. But as you just said, Ahmed Chalabi is really a hot potato.

And before the war he was embraced as if he could be Iraq's George Washington. And then after the WMD was never found -- and Chalabi was one of the loudest voices yelling about that as an Iraqi exile, that it did exist in Iraq -- and after he was believed to have passed, alleged to have past intelligence to Iran, he suddenly became sort of persona non grata.

Now he has shown himself to be amazing political survivor. He is his country's deputy prime minister, Kyra. And some say he could be the country's next prime minister when Iraqis go to the polls in December.

PHILLIPS: So, you talk about the fact that it was his home and office I think that got raided when he was allegedly giving information to Iran. And also there's been talk about him embezzling money within this Jordanian bank.

I thought the FBI was investigating all this. Did that come to a standstill? Is that still ongoing?

KOPPEL: Well, our wonderful justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, poked around on this yesterday with her sources over at the Justice Department, and what they're saying is, is this is an active investigation. That said, Kyra, in the last 16, 17 months, the FBI has not interviewed Ahmed Chalabi, and some wonder why.

In fact, some Democrats, Dick Durbin of Illinois, Senator Durbin, and John Miller of California, also a Democrat, were yelling about that today on the Hill, saying that Chalabi should be subpoenaed before the Senate Intelligence Committee and he should answer tough questions from congressmen asking how he got away with this, and really to try to put his feet to the fire.

PHILLIPS: And, of course, he's supposed to give this speech. Do we know if he's started that yet and if, indeed, there were protests?

KOPPEL: Well, it's supposed to start at 2:30. And you're absolutely right, there were some Democrats who were saying that they were going to stage protests outside. We don't know as yet if -- if that has happened.

But Ahmed Chalabi is giving this speech at the pro-Bush American Enterprise Institute, a very conservative think tank here in Washington. And he's going to be received by a hometown crowd there.

I can tell you, Kyra, that when Chalabi left the State Department -- and this meeting was not opened to cameras. Secretary Rice has not appeared before cameras to speak about this. But Chalabi came to cameras and was asked point blank whether he had passed on faulty intelligence to the Bush administration. He said he didn't want to talk about the past, he wanted to talk about the future, and said that he didn't.

Nevertheless, there are many on Capitol Hill and outside the government who want Chalabi to answer their questions.

PHILLIPS: Yes. A lot of questions still remaining. Andrea Koppel, thank you so much.

Well, the fallout continues on Capitol Hill over published reports now that the CIA operated secret prisons in eastern Europe. And while Republicans want an investigation into that leak, some Democrats say it's the secret prisons that should be investigated.

In an interview on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," Senator Jay Rockefeller said that Congress should be looking at the bigger picture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-WV), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE VICE CHAIRMAN: The great untold story in all of this is not the secret, what Trent Lott said, do they exist or do they not exist, but the much larger subject which goes back to Abu Ghraib and, obviously, way before that, which is the subject of detention, first, then interrogation, second, and then rendition, third, which is when you turn people over to other countries for interrogation, which is a very controversial subject.

We have been trying for six to eight months to have that brought up as a matter of committee business and investigation into the whole scope of how do we handle prisoners, taking the Geneva Convention, everything else, because what we do to them, they'll be doing to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, earlier this week the Pentagon released new guidelines on the treatment and interrogation of detainees. As CNN's Tom Foreman reports, it's just the latest wrinkle in a long-running debate over what constitutes torture and when, if ever, it's justified.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you could save the life of a soldier, rescue the hostage children; stop the next terrorist bomb by torturing a prisoner for information, would you do it?

JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, MAJOR GENERAL, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I'd stick a knife in somebody's thigh in a heartbeat.

FOREMAN (on camera): Retired General "Spider" Marks, a CNN consultant, worked for U.S. Army Intelligence, teaching interrogation

MARKS: The kinds of enemies we're fighting have no sense of right or wrong. They will go to any depths to achieve their ends.

FOREMAN: Do we have to go with them?

MARKS: We don't need to go with them. We need to preclude them from going there. And that might include some use of torture in order to prevent it.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Polls have shown that more than 60 percent of Americans think torture can sometimes be justified. But here is the catch. Experts, including General Marks, are convinced with the vast majority of prisoners, it just doesn't work.

MARK JACOBSEN, FORMER OFFICIAL, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: It does not give you credible, accurate, timely and actionable intelligence.

FOREMAN: Mark Jacobsen, a former Defense Department official, outlines the troubles. You need to know a prisoner has critical information. The prisoner must be susceptible to torture. And, oh by the way,

JACOBSEN: When people are tortured, when people endure physical pain, they're going to seek to stop that as quickly as possible.

(voice-over): If I torture you, you're going to tell me exactly what I expect to hear.

FOREMAN: The White House, under fire over reports of secret CIA prisons overseas, says torture is not allowed. But...

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, PRESS SECRETARY, WHITE HOUSE: We are going to do what is necessary to protect the American people. We are also going to do so in a way that adheres to our laws and to our values. We have made that very clear.

FOREMAN: ... the definition of torture is infliction of severe physical as a means of punishment or coercion. Legal authorities around the world are arguing over what that means. Some insist the abuses at that Iraqi prison easily qualify, along with sleep deprivation, humiliation, extreme fear. Others say those things don't even come close.

The global jury is still out. And even experts are pondering a paradox.

(on camera): So in your experience and in your view, torture as a policy should be against the law?

MARKS: True.

FOREMAN: And yet, we might still have to use it.

MARKS: True.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And wondering which truth about torture will stand in a dangerous world.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And straight ahead, we're going to take you live to Iraq. We're going to talk to Colonel Stephen Davis with the U.S. Marines. He's in charge of that tremendous effort going on to take down insurgents. He joins us live right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: From B Control straight to the newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield working a story for us right now.

What's going on, Fred?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Kyra.

Well, this story just breaking in Amman, Jordan, right in the center of the business district. Apparently, reports are indicating that an explosion shook possibly two American hotels, or at least hotels that are frequented by westerners and other Americans, whether they're for business or vacationers.

Initial reports coming from Reuters right now that five are reported dead, dozens wounded. This taking place in the center of town in Amman, Jordan, just moments ago. Possibly two hotels that are frequented by westerners there being impacted by this reported explosion. And reports are indicating right now that a black cloud of smoke was seen rising from the buildings there in what's called the commercial Jabel Amman (ph) district.

Of course we will get more information on this, and we'll be bringing that to you -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Fredricka Whitfield, thank you so much.

She's working all the developing news there in the newsroom for us.

Meanwhile, we're talking Operation Steel Curtain now. It's the latest of several recent U.S. military operations in western Iraq. Officials say that one key objective has been achieved, pushing Iraqi insurgents out of the strategic town of Husaybah.

Other main objectives, wiping out as many insurgents as possible and stopping the flow of foreign fighters crossing into Iraq from Syria.

Joining us now from Iraq to talk to us about Steel Curtain, U.S. Marine Corps Colonel Stephen Davis. He's commanding this effort.

Sir, thanks for being with us. Tell us about the back clearing and how that's going. COL. STEPHEN DAVIS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Well, right now that operation is moving along just as we had hoped that it would. The back clearing operations are under way as we speak. And the Marines and the Iraqi army folks that are up there are finding an incredible amount of caches, IEDs, VBIEDs, which are the vehicle-born IEDs, throughout this the city.

So, we've got some work to do to get that stuff out of the hands of anybody that comes across it before we get some of the displaced people back into that town.

PHILLIPS: Sir, I'm being told we're losing our satellite in about 30 seconds here, so, real quickly, I understand that some of the fiercest house-to-house combat that has taken place, what's the deal with these insurgents? Are they getting more creative?

DAVIS: No, I don't think they're getting more creative. I think that just attests to the fact that Husaybah is very strategic territory for them sitting along the Syrian border. That is a main point of facilitation to bringing in foreign fighters from Syria, and that's why they're fighting so dearly for this territory.

PHILLIPS: Colonel Stephen Davis, U.S. Marine Corps, the commander of the regimental combat team.

We'll stay in touch. Thank you so much.

Meanwhile, being a member of the defense team in the trial of Saddam Hussein is dangerous business. Two lawyers for Hussein's co- defendants already have been assassinated. The latest one was shot dead yesterday. The other lawyer was kidnapped and killed last month.

Now Hussein's own lawyer is warning that unless steps are taken to protect the defense team, they will not take part in the trial's next session scheduled later this month. Iraqi officials say they'll take every step to protect that defense team, but if they don't show up a new team will be appointed.

We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Back live in B Control. You're watching LIVE FROM.

Right now we're talking about the motives still a big question today in the deadly high school shooting in Tennessee. That shooting happened yesterday at Campbell County High School in Jacksboro.

Investigators say that a 15-year-old student pulled out a small caliber handgun and shot a principal and two assistant principals. One of the assistant principals was killed.

The suspect was tackled by a teacher and arrested. Authorities say the suspect was shot in the head. And here you see him -- the shirt splattered with blood -- leaving a hospital. Well, the shooting definitely shocked that small community. And prosecutors say that they'll ask that the suspect be tried as an adult.

CNN's David Mattingly joins us now from Jacksboro with more.

Davis, I see once again you're lined up against the fence there. Obviously a lot of students grieving and missing a very special assistant principal.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kyra. And it's probably important that we stop and think right now what was happening at this very moment this time yesterday.

Shots had rung out in the high school, three administrators had been wounded, one of them fatally. Police were arriving at the scene. The school was in lockdown. Parents were beginning to arrive here at the gates, absolutely horrified, beside themselves with worry. And today, it is a much different place as people are returning to offer their warm wishes to the family of their fallen vice principal, Ken Bruce.

I want to share some of these comments with you.

"You will be missed and loved. You were one of the best men I knew."

And over here on this one, "You were a mentor, a friend. And you were always there for the students and teachers."

Students tell me that even though vice principals are known to be disciplinarians -- and Mr. Bruce was definitely one of them here -- they said that when they got in trouble he was the one they wanted to go to because they enjoyed his company so much. And that gives you an idea of how much he is being missed tonight by the students and the teachers alike at this school and this community.

As you said earlier, the district attorney has said that they will attempt to have the 15-year-old suspect tried as an adult. He faces right now numerous juvenile charges, including first-degree murder. They also tell us that he acted alone, they believe, and brought the gun that he used from home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL PHILLIPS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The gun has been recovered, and law enforcement has been able to ascertain the source of the gun. And we can tell you that no one else is criminally responsible for the fact that this young man had this gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: As the wheels of justice begin to turn in this case, already the emotions continue to turn out here. You might see over my shoulder here a group of young people engaged in prayer right now. We see this happening quite a bit out here. We're going to keep our distance, though, Kyra, because people here are coming here to be alone with their thoughts and to share the shared emotions that they have with each other. A very difficult time for everybody here, and it's probably going to be quite difficult for some time to come -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: No doubt. And of course we want to respect that privacy.

This 15-year-old student, David, do we know if he had problems with any of these principals? Had he been in trouble recently? Was he a troublemaker, always having to be sent to the office?

MATTINGLY: His classmates are telling us all kinds of stories that he did have disciplinary problems in the past and some violence in the past toward an administrator at a different school. None of that, however, being confirmed by authorities as the district attorney has put everyone here, the investigators, the school officials, everyone connected with this case in sort of an information lockdown.

They want to protect their case, they don't want any information getting out there and making it more difficult to prosecute this young man when the case does go to court. So, we may have to wait until this trial actually starts to get the full details of what sort of troubled life he may have been living.

PHILLIPS: David Mattingly. Thank you so much.

Now we want to get back to the newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield working more information on that story, the explosion in Jordan.

WHITFIELD: Well, Kyra, this breaking story, possibly tragic story, unfolding in Amman, Jordan, where witnesses say they have seen billowing smoke coming from at least one, possibly two hotels that are often frequented by westerners, Americans and Israelis, in the downtown commercial district. This explosion taking place just a short time ago.

There are conflicting reports as to whether one or possibly two hotels have been involved. And right now many of the injured are also being taken to nearby hospitals.

Associated Press is reporting -- or rather Reuters is reporting now that at least five people are dead and dozens others wounded.

Now, of course, this story just unfolding and, so, the numbers are very fluid. And ambulances and emergency crews are on the way there in downtown Amman, Jordan, to discern what has taken place here involving these reported explosions and possibly one, maybe even two hotels -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Fredricka. Thank you so much.

Fred of course following all the stories coming in. As we cover news here out of B Control, Fred's in the newsroom following developing stories. Another developing story -- actually, we knew about it, but we're hoping to take it live at any moment. That's the Medal of Freedom ceremony that's taking place in Washington. And people like Mohammed Ali, Aretha Franklin, it's an amazing list of special individuals who have made an impact in our country over the years.

Even Carol Burnett, one of our favorite individuals, is going to be receiving that medal. We're going to take that live as soon as the president steps up and starts talking about these special individuals. The Presidential Medal of Freedom ceremony coming up hopefully about 2:30 Eastern Time. You'll see it live right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Let's go back into the newsroom and check in with Fredricka Whitfield with more on that developing story out of Jordan -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: A bit more on this explosion being reported in downtown Amman, Jordan, in the very busy business district.

One report coming from Associated Press is indicating that the explosion took place at the Grand Hyatt hotel, and they're quoting one American businessman who was there who said the bomb went off in the lobby. Now, there are other reports coming in from other news agencies that are indicating that it's a Radisson hotel in downtown Amman, Jordan.

Now, other indications are that emergency crews are responding to that district. They are already starting to transport a number of injured people to nearby hospitals. And the Reuters News Agency is reporting five dead, dozens wounded, while other news agencies are reporting scores possibly injured and killed.

And we are getting information by the minutes here. One witness reporting that at least seven people were killed in that Jordan hotel blast.

Now, again, conflicting reports as to whether one or possibly two hotels, but the bottom line, these hotels taking place in a busy business district of Amman, Jordan, an area that is very popular to tourists and business people from all over -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Fred. Working that story for us, and everybody behind you there at the international desk. We'll check in. Thank you so much.

And remember those rumblings of gas shortages just a couple of months ago? When you look at the profit statistics for the top five oil companies in 2005, well, the only shortage seems to be space for all those zeroes. Take a look at those numbers.

ExxonMobil had the biggest gains, netting close to $25 billion in year-to-date profits. Shell's profit was $20.9 billion. BP, $18.7 billion. ConocoPhillips, $9.8 billion. And Chevron, $7.9 billion.

Now, there's no downside for stockholders, with 40 percent gains from just a year ago.

Well, as for where your hard-earned money goes, for each gallon of unleaded regular, 15 percent goes to taxes, 8 percent for distribution and marketing, 27 percent covers the cost of refining, and the bulk, 50 percent, is what you're paying for the crude oil.

After huge spikes in late summer, gas prices have eased just a bit. But they're still about 20 percent higher than they were a year ago.

PHILLIPS: CNN's Daniel Sieberg in Metairie, Lousiiana, to get an earful as drivers get a tankful. There was a time, as you know, when we there, Daniel, you couldn't even pull up to the gas tank and get any gas at all?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's true. And, in fact, it's pretty busy here today. We're at a Shell station in Metairie, in Jefferson Parish. Which -- about a mile that direction is where the 17th Street levee broke, just to give you an idea of where you are.

It's been very busy today with people coming in. The price here at the Shell station, about $2.59 a gallon. A little higher than the national average, at about $2.43.

And right now we're going to talk to somebody from Kenner (ph), which is about ten miles west, Vinny Mandoza (ph). And Vinny, you just filled up your tank. Well, actually, you topped it up, I should say. Cost you about $25, but to fill it, we're talking close to $100?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Close to about $70, when it used to cost $30 to fill it up. And, you know, that's something that people don't realize that, you know, the economy is real bad here. And there's a lot of work, but, you know, people can't really afford to be paying a lot of money for gas.

SIEBERG: Yes, let's talk about that. Because you own a construction company and your house was affected by all of this. So the gas price is going to pinch you even harder among other people here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I have to get to wherever I want to go. And, you know, the loss of personal property and loss of business -- because I lost all my vehicles. So that, compounded with, you know, the difficulty of getting materials. Right now, you know, you can go to a supplier and they'll tell you we cannot sell you because you're not a regular customer. That happened to me this morning. So you get in a line to pick up materials and seven hours later, they tell you we cannot sell you because you don't have an account with us. So, you know, I...

SIEBERG: So you're getting hit from all sides here. Let's talk about the proposals that are going through the Senate today about perhaps taxing the barrels of oil, the price of gas and oil. And perhaps some of that money coming back to consumers, and maybe some of the consumers hit by Hurricane Katrina and Rita. What do you think of that possibility? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, if you look at the reason why we went to Iraq, I guess some of the hidden agenda was to get the oil from there and use it here, but it hasn't happened. The gas prices have gone up since we went to Iraq almost 100 percent.

SIEBERG: Do you feel those prices are artificially inflated or are they just reflecting a cyclical market?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe they are artificially inflated because the people that are actually involved with Iraq economy are the ones that control the gas prices. And, you know, I only speak for what I see. When I come to the gas pump and pay twice as much than I used to pay 24 months ago or a year ago, to me, that's one reason why I ran in Congress in 2004.

SIEBERG: Vinny, good luck with that. Thank you so much for talking with us. Kyra, so that's going to do it from here. Incidentally, by the way, I talked to the Department of Energy yesterday, and about three quarters of the oil refineries here in the Gulf Coast are back online. So, obviously, bring the price down a little bit, but not enough for everybody.

PHILLIPS: Well, I noticed Vinny -- doesn't surprise, he was running for Congress there. Daniel, he had no problem.

SIEBERG: Yes, he had to slip that in at the end, did you notice that?

PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly.

SIEBERG: He's a savvy politician, that guy.

PHILLIPS: Yes, he is. Look out for Vinny Mandoza.

SIEBERG: He's not going to pass up an opportunity.

PHILLIPS: Daniel Sieberg, thank you so much.

Well, with all the talk of applying a windfall profits tax to the oil industry, we thought that we'd take a look at the last time that happened. Here's the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): In 1979, President Jimmy Carter proposed a new energy policy that would put an end to eight years of controls on oil prices and replace the controls with a windfall tax on oil industry profits. The tax was intended to last a decade, raising $227 billion for the development of alternative energy sources, mass transportation and to help lower income families pay for fuel.

In April of 1980, Carter signed the tax into law. He called it the keystone of the nation's energy policy. Oil industry profits that year were $41 billion in today's terms. Those profits decreased slowly over the next few years, and the tax revenue wasn't quite living up to expectations. Then in 1986, oil prices took a nosedive and so did the profits. The industry netted about $9 billion in today's terms that year. Oil producing states said the windfall profits tax were unfair, and their members of Congress went to work to strike down the tax. The tax was officially repealed in 1988. Ultimately, it raised only about $80 billion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: All right. Getting more information on that U.S. hotel in Jordan where there was an explosion. Fredricka Whitfield in the news room working that story for us. What do you got, Fred?

WHITFIELD: Well, Kyra, this is very early and so information isn't always cohesive. But there a number of variables here and I'll try to convey that to you. Number one, an explosion. Number two, various reports on whether it involved a Hyatt hotel in downtown Amman, Jordan, in a very busy business district. Another report indicating it took place at a Radisson hotel, also in the very busy business district of Amman, Jordan. That Radisson hotel also happens to be the same hotel that was the center of a plot, a foiled terrorist plot, back -- leading up to the millennium celebrations.

And now the Associated Press is also indicating they're trying to convey some eyewitness accounts. Everything from eyewitnesses saying they're seeing plumes of smoke coming from the hotels, to one American businessman saying it was in the hotel lobby of the Hyatt hotel where the explosion took place.

Also, the Associated Press is indicating and reporting that one witness said that he saw seven bodies being taken out of the hotel after an explosion taking place there. So, of course, we're trying to get our reporters there on the scene. Hala Gorani is en route now to at least one of those hotels to find out exactly what's taking place. And we understand that a number of injured people have been taken to nearby hospitals -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll continue to check in with you on that story. Fredricka Whitfield, thank you so much.

Meanwhile, live from the White House, we're waiting for the president of the United States to step up to the podium. He's announcing a number of recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That's the nation's highest civil award. Muhammed Ali, Carol Burnett, Aretha Franklin, Paul Harvey. We'll have the rest of the story and the rest of the recipients, as we await for this live event right now.

Meanwhile, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. That can only be Muhammed Ali, right? And he so often told us he's the greatest. Today he receives one more accolade, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And he came to the nation's attention in 1960, when he won an Olympic gold medal. Ali became the first three-time heavyweight champion of the world and successfully defended that title 19 times. Now, she invited us in to have a laugh and sing a song, and when the show was over, Carol Burnett tugged her ear and pulled out a mop. And, now -- that's right -- her television variety show first aired in 1967, lasted more than a decade. She made her debut, though, eight years earlier on Broadway. She's being honored with the Presidential Medal of Freedom for her creativity, her humor and her compassion.

There are many more, though. We'll go straight to the live picture as Muhammed Ali is brought up to the podium. We told you about Carol Burnett. Some of the other people receiving that medal of freedom -- they're being one by one brought in. Do we want to go ahead and listen? We'll go ahead and listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aretha Franklin. Alan Greenspan. Andy Griffith. Paul Harvey. Sonny Montgomery. General Richard B. Myers. Jack Nicklaus. Frank Robinson. Paul Rusesabagina.

Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States and Mrs. Laura Bush.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Please be seated.

Welcome to the White House. Laura and I are so pleased that you could join us on this proud and happy occasion. It's a special honor for us to be in the company of these distinguished honorees.

We welcome the honorees, we welcome their family members and we welcome their friends. The Presidential Medal of Freedom is America's highest civil award and is presented for meritorious achievement in public service, in science, the arts, education, athletics, business and other fields of endeavor.

The award was created through the executive order by President John F. Kennedy and first presented here in the White House by President Lyndon B. Johnson. All who received the medal of freedom can know that they have a special place in the life of our country and have earned the respect and affection of the American people.

Alan Greenspan, Ph.D. is one of the most admired and influential economists in our nation's history. So, you may be surprised to learn that Alan studied music at Juilliard. He began his career playing the saxophone, clarinet in a jazz orchestra. Even then, he showed his mathematical side as fellow band members had him fill out their tax returns.

He was on his way to a lifetime of achievement in the field of economics from Wall Street to the White House to the Board of Governors and the Federal Reserve system.

The era of Chairman Greenspan will always be known as one of phenomenal economic growth, high productivity and unprecedented innovation and opportunity for all our citizens.

He is a believer in economic freedom, open and flexible markets and boundless human creativity. In his 18 years as Fed chairman, he applied those principals with consistency, with calm and with wisdom. As he prepares to conclude his government service, Alan Greenspan leaves behind a standard that will always define a successful...

PHILLIPS: We will continue to follow the special presidential medal of freedom ceremony there. We'll go back to in a second.

But we want to take you back into the newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield working that developing story we've been telling you about, that explosion at a U.S. hotel in Jordan.

Fred, what do you know?

WHITFIELD: Well, now it's being reported that there were two explosions and they do involve these two hotels that I had mentioned earlier.

The Radisson hotel, as well as the Hyatt hotel, all in the downtown business district of Amman, Jordan.

Various news agencies are reporting from five deaths to several more deaths in that and at least 40 injured.

Our Hala Gorani is there in Amman, Jordan. She has been there trying to make her way to these hotels to help make a little bit more sense of what's taking place here.

And Hala, if you're on the line with us right now, give me a sense as to what is taking place there downtown with these two reported explosions now involving two western hotels?

HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR (on phone): Fredricka, here is what we have confirmed. We spoke to the Jordanian Interior Minister. He has confirmed one explosion inside the Radisson hotel. The second explosion, which now has been reported on some wire services, has not been confirmed by CNN yet.

The Radisson hotel is swarming with medical crews, police officers. It's been cordoned off by security. We've been kept out. One of our CNN producers here on the ground in a local hospital is saying that he has estimated more than 30 wounded.

Up until now, we have an unknown number of dead. Wire reports are reporting up to seven dead, but this is not a number that has been confirmed to CNN yet.

All we can say right now is that there is a little bit of a chaotic scene outside the Radisson in downtown Amman and we're working on getting more information. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Hala, and you're underscoring the real challenge of reporting on something like this because it is just happening and so there are so many different sources of information coming in.

Can you at least give us the proximity of these two hotels since we are getting conflicting reports about whether a Hyatt and/or a Radisson hotel, both being targeted. How close are they? GORANI: I'm not very familiar with downtown Amman, but from what I've heard on my way over to the Radisson, the Hyatt and the Radisson are close to each other.

So, it would make sense if the Hyatt were evacuated first, that there was a fear that a second bomb would go off. When we were being kept away from the hotel lobby where it is reported that the first explosion occurred, we were told this is for your own safety.

In other words -- then we asked the police officers, is this because you're afraid that a second bomb will go off? The didn't answer, but this would make sense in a situation like this, in a climate of fear all across the Middle East and the world where explosions, as you know, and as our viewers probably know, often and in recent years have happened, in rapid succession and/or simultaneously. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: And Hala, what has the climate been there in Amman, Jordan, for any kind of possibilities for something like this to happen?

GORANI: You know, it's been in Jordan the same way it's been in every Middle Eastern country. Jordan is a county that is perceived by some as being aligned to the United States. It's a country that is perceived as being more of an ally to the United States and the Western powers.

WHITFIELD: And Hala, let me just interrupt you for a moment because The Associated Press is now reporting that there is a third explosion.

Even though I know you have told us that CNN is only able to confirm one explosion. But Associated Press is saying three explosions. A Radisson hotel, the Grand Hyatt and the Days Inn.

GORANI: OK, we had heard the Days Inn initially on our way over. Again, this is something that we're not able to confirm.

We're on working our sources, of course, to get as many details as we can. What we do know is that downtown Amman has basically turned into a chaotic police/rescue crew scene, where there is ambulance after ambulance.

As I'm talking to you right now, I'm seeing a dozen ambulances rush by. So, I think the best thing for us right now is to get information and get back to you as soon as we get more.

WHITFIELD: All right. And before I let you go to do a little bit more of that reporting, give us a sense as to what kind of activity would we ordinarily be seeing this time of day, downtown Amman?

GORANI: Well, Amman is rather a quiet city. Obviously there is a downtown area where you might have crowds in restaurants and that kind of thing. But the kind of activity we're seeing now is clearly out of the ordinary. Something is happening, as we know, an explosion, according to the Jordanian Interior Minister, occurred inside the Radisson Hotel.

We are not, as of yet, able to confirm that this explosion was caused by a bomb. Of course, but we're going to take all of this information, you know, we're going to treat it with great care.

However, the fact that all these reports are coming in at once, that these explosions are occurring at several hotels at the same time or in succession, is something that would lead me to believe that something is going on and that perhaps there have been more explosions elsewhere.

WHITFIELD: All right, Hala Gorani, thanks so much. We're going to let you go and do a little bit more reporting there.

So, once again, let me just recap. At least three now explosions being reported based on various reports coming out of Amman, Jordan, involving a Radisson hotel, a Hyatt hotel and a Days Inn hotel in downtown Amman, Jordan.

It is presumed, based on conflicting reports we're getting, several dead and several more wounded. And you can hear in the background of Hala Gorani's report, a number of ambulances that she is witnessing going to the area where these reported explosions have taken place.

And of course, when we get more concrete information as to where the investigation is and if indeed, it is involving three explosions as various news agencies are reporting and three separate hotels.

We'll be able to bring that along to you. Kyra?

PHILLIPS: All right, Fred. Let me know as you're working the wires there right inside the newsroom there.

Meanwhile, we've got Anwar Dabass on the phone. I understand he actually witnessed either one, or both of these explosions that you've been talking about. Anwar, are you able to hear me okay?

ANWAR DABASS, EYEWITNESS: Yes, yes, I can hear you.

PHILLIPS: Tell me what happened. Where were you? What did you see?

DABASS: I was right by the Days Inn. Now, I didn't see it happen. I saw exactly after it happened.

PHILLIPS: So, you're staying close to that hotel?

DABASS: I was close to the hotel, yes.

PHILLIPS: So, tell us what you heard, what you felt and describe the scene right now for us. DABASS: An explosion. We heard it coming from the Days Inn area. We were in the car right there and we went back and we saw three people in the street that were lying in the street, they weren't dead, they were moving, at the time that we got there.

We were one of the first people there and there was some body parts in the street and, obviously, it looked like the guy exploded. He exploded by the three guys that were in the street. There were two cars parked there.

The cars are damaged that were in front of the hotel. All of it happened outside the hotel, right in front of the hotel, and there's also a car in the street that was passing by, it looks like it was hit by the explosion.

PHILLIPS: All right, so you're to see -- what type of damage to you see to the Grand Hyatt? You're describing to me what you see.

DABASS: Not the Grand Hyatt, no, Days Inn.

PHILLIPS: You're at the Days Inn.

DABASS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: You're close to that hotel?

DABASS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: So, have you been able -- is the Days Inn close to the Grand Hyatt and the Radisson?

DABASS: It's about three kilometers away, two and a half kilometers away from the Hyatt. From the Radisson and Hyatt are about half a kilometer apart.

PHILLIPS: OK, so, have you been able to get closer to any of the other hotels or are you just able to ...

DABASS: I drove by the Hyatt and it's all full of police and ambulances. They're not letting anybody close to the hotel. There's a lot of people standing away from the hotel looking the hotel. And the prime minister's car -- the Jordanian prime minister's car -- is at the Hyatt, at the Hyatt hotel. We saw it there. And there's still like 10 or 15 ambulances in the area.

PHILLIPS: Whose car did you say you saw at the Hyatt?

DABASS: The prime minister.

PHILLIPS: The prime minister?

DABASS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Now, Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi, as you know, is here in the United States ...

DABASS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Yes?

DABASS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And so, tell me who exactly you're talking about.

DABASS: The Jordanian prime minister.

PHILLIPS: Oh, Jordanian prime minister. Forgive me. Forgive me. That's right. I'm looking here at wires with regard to Iraq. I apologize. Anwar, stay with us there.

DABASS: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Fred, you still with me there in the newsroom?

WHITFIELD: Yes, I am.

PHILLIPS: OK. I'm sitting here looking at various wires of -- there's reports coming across from some activity in Iraq, so I got confused there for just a moment. As you look at the wires there out of Jordan, of course, I'm trying to visualize the hotels in Iraq as I'm trying to visualize there in Jordan. He's talking about these various explosions by the Days Inn, saying that he saw the prime minister's car. Are you seeing anything on the wires?

WHITFIELD: I'm not seeing anything on that but, you know, that wouldn't be that outlandish because this is a business district and these hotels are in an area that's frequented by diplomats whether they be inside Jordan there or from neighboring countries or visiting dignitaries. So, you know, it really does make you take pause because you're not really sure.

We don't know right now what sort of activities or conferences or meetings may have been taking place there, but it wouldn't be unusual for the prime minister of Jordan to be there or anyone else from a visiting nation.

Now, once again, you know, these reports are coming, you know, rather fluidly from various news agencies and our reporters and other reporters on the ground indicating who are indicating that there are at least three explosions that are now being reported taking place there, not too far from one another, in terms of the proximity of these explosions.

You're looking at some live pictures right now. However, I can't really tell whether this image that we're seeing right now is one of the hotel locations, a building nearby, or if that may even be one of the hospitals where people are being taken to. When we get a little bit more clarity on what that visual is we're seeing, I'll be able to explain that to you.

But meantime, these three hotels -- we're talking about the Radisson, the Hyatt and the Days Inn -- all fairly close to one another in this downtown business district. Then this explosion, at least the first blast, reportedly took place at about 8:50 p.m.

Yes, nightfall, but still, as Hala Gorani was explaining, while this is a fairly quiet, docile downtown, it isn't one that would be absent of people given that there are so many tourists and people who are visiting from other countries for business or pleasure to be at these hotels downtown.

PHILLIPS: Now, Fred, as I'm sitting here, you know, this is where I'm getting confused because I'm looking at our wires as these stories are coming across, and evidently, there were some blasts in Baghdad as well. And I've been trying to figure sort out the time, if it happened close to the same time or if there was a distance in those various blasts.

I don't know if you're able to see that on the wires that are coming in to you, and I'm trying to read up that -- read up on that and see if they're possibly could be any type of connection or if there was planning that was taking place in Iraq in addition to what's happening there in Jordan.

Now, what's interesting, Fred, as we've been -- as we're talking about these blasts, whether it be Iraq or what we're talking about here with these live pictures in Jordan, you know, Ahmed Chalabi, Iraqi prime minister, in the United States today and a lot of controversy over that because allegedly he's involved with funneling funds out of a Jordanian bank.

And there were, of course, talks of protests as he was about to give his speech, which was supposed to be about this time, about 2:30 Eastern time. So I'm just curious if we are able to, I don't know, work any journalists within those areas whether it be Iraq or Jordan or here.

Maybe if we can even try and get Andrea Koppel on the line there at the State Department because we've been talking about Chalabi's visit and the relationship he has with Jordanians, also the relationship with those in Iraq and now we're seeing these explosions taking place in both countries. His visit here, obviously, adding to the controversy. You wonder if the timing might be playing an interesting role in what's taking place.

WHITFIELD: Sure, and it's difficult to know right now, but we have all of our tentacles, as they say, out to try to ascertain whether there is any connection to those explosions that are being reported in Baghdad versus these three reported explosions now in downtown Amman, Jordan.

Now, Kyra, let me just take a moment and bring in terrorist analyst Peter Bergen. He is very familiar with this area, specifically when we talk about these three hotels: the Hyatt, the Radisson, and the Days Inn.

Peter, you know more intimately about the history involving the Radisson hotel, and how it wasn't that long ago that it escaped what seemed to be a terrorist plot during the millennium or just leading up to the millennium celebrations and now we're hearing about this, some five years later about this explosion, at least one explosion, that may have involved this hotel. Give me a better sense as to what downtown is like, the importance of the Radisson hotel specifically.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: In the run up to the millennium celebrations, Jordanian law enforcement broke up a plot to attack the Radisson hotel. It was also the same cell was planning to attack tourist sites along the Jordan River associated with St. John the Baptist, frequented by American tourists.

And, so, you know, a pattern of al Qaeda or its affiliated groups is to come back and do something they didn't get right the first time. And, unfortunately in this case, the Radisson hotel seems to have been the target, yet again, of a Jordanian group.

You mentioned the, you know, is there any connection to Iraq? Well, of course, the most important insurgent leader in Iraq is a Jordanian, Zarqawi, and his group, which is known as the Tawhid group in Jordan has been very active trying to attack Jordanian targets, Israeli targets, Jewish targets. We may find that Zarqawi's group is behind this.

Another group called the Abdallah Azzam Brigade, named after a Jordanian cleric who was quite influential with Osama bin Laden, claimed credit for an attack on a U.S. ship, the U.S.S. Ashland, back in August which killed a Jordanian soldier. So these are two groups that may well be responsible.

But I think this is part of a larger pattern of attacking western brand names. It's sort of a twofer. You attack a western brand name and maybe kill some western tourists as far as these groups are concerned. We saw that on the attack on the Hilton in Taba, Egypt in 2004 and also an attack on a Sheraton in Karachi, Pakistan, in 2002. So, it appears we may even have three hotels here targeted, all of which are well-known brand names, American brand names.

WHITFIELD: And, Peter, if you might, of course, you know, we are trying really hard to kind of read the tea leaves here. This is your expertise, analyzing the activity of terrorism and suspected terrorist activity.

Do you see any significance to the timing of these explosions? Especially when you look around the world, there are a number of countries that are dealing with various degrees of terrorist attack or threats, as we speak.

BERGEN: I mean, I'm a diagnostic on that question right now. We don't know enough about it yet. Often, you know, if this is, indeed, three simultaneous attacks, this is something that was long in the planning. You know, you mentioned Chalabi's visit to the United States. Is it perhaps a coincidence?

I doubt it very much. Chalabi's visit was something that was recently planned. To pull something off like this would require six months of planning, at least, if it is, indeed, confirmed that all three hotels are targets. It's not something you can just do over the course of a weekend. WHITFIELD: What are some of the questions that you'd like answered, some of the key ingredients to really ascertain who might be responsible in these explosions? What are some of the variables you would need?

BERGEN: Well, I think we're going to get a claim of responsibility rather quickly from this Abdallah Azzam Brigade.

WHITFIELD: This is one that they would want to boast and brag about.

BERGEN: Yes, whether or not they're behind it or not. I mean, they have had a track record, unfortunately, of claiming responsibility for attacks in Egypt and in Jordan, which I think are probably accurate. So I would say that that's the most likely group to claim credit for this. Then the second group I'd be looking at is the Tawhid group, which means T-A-W-H-I-D, which means unity, which is Zarqawi's Jordanian outfit based just in Jordan, not in Iraq.

WHITFIELD: How influential is Zarqawi given this Jordanian terrorism group leader is presumably still in Iraq. How deeply does he reach still into Jordan and militants or cells that may be there?

BERGEN: I think quite deeply. As you know, Jordan is a pretty small country right on the border of Iraq. This is where he grew up. His name, Zarqawi, comes from an actual town called Zarqa, which is not far from Amman itself. He spent a lot of time in Jordanian prisons. He built up a network of people.

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