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Muslim Backlash to Jordan Bombings; Human Toll in Operation Steel Curtain; Church in Crisis?; Congressman Discusses Able Danger

Aired November 10, 2005 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, right here at the international desk. It's the nerve center here at CNN, where our producers are working sources from Amman to Zurich. And we're on the big story right now. We're talking terror bombs in Jordan.
Based on claims of responsibility, the main target of the Jordan hotel bombings was the United States. The attackers' strategy a deadly strike against Washington's close ally in the Middle East. Most of the victims among the 56 killed and more than 100 wounded were Jordanians. Already there are signs of a Muslim backlash against those attackers.

Joining us now to talk about it, CNN senior editor for Arab affairs, Octavia Nasr.

And I know you're working on it right now as you're monitoring the Web site.

I want to ask you about these protests. We were talking to Hala Gorani, and she said these protesters are standing outside the Radisson in Arabic screaming, "Abu Musab -al-Zarqawi is a low life! We want his head!"

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Yes, many people are calling for his death, saying that him and his ideologues should basically go to you know where. And very upset, the Arab street very upset with these attacks, and with in general what's going on.

You have a sense if you watch Arab media or read Arab press, you have a sense that people are afraid that this is going to spill over to the rest of the Middle East and it's going -- it's going to mean more bloodshed and more innocent people dying for, as they say, no reason.

PHILLIPS: And of course we continue to monitor these live pictures of the protests outside the hotel. Can we talk about the significance of the date? Because I addressed that question with our reporters yesterday and they thought, well, I can't think of an anniversary or anything that happened on this day in the past. But you brought up something interesting.

NASR: Yes, the 9/11 issue. You know, in the Middle East you'd say this is the ninth day of November, so that makes it 9/11, really. It's not 11/9, as we use the calendar here in the States. So many people said that this might be significant. Of course, we have to wait for a claim of responsibility to see, if, indeed, they chose the date, you know, as a symbolic date.

The claim of responsibility, the only one that's out there, which is from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his group in Iraq, Al Qaeda in Iraq, they didn't mention anything. But the claim said that there will be more details to come, and perhaps video.

We will wait to see. Sometimes with these groups they have taped testimonies before the suicide bombers carry out attacks. If, indeed, there are those tapes, it will be interesting to see if they mentioned 9/11 as "This will be your 9/11" or whatever, and then we'll know that it has more significance.

PHILLIPS: Well, tell me what you're monitoring right now. Is this the "Asia Times" Web site that you...

NASR: This is -- yes, this is the "Asia Times" Web site. This just to show you how the story has, you know, international appeal.

This guy, Ehsan Ahrari, from the "Asia Times" says, "Jordan bombs a terrorist master's stroke," basically talking about Zarqawi and how he has taken his war against the U.S. all over, as has been the plan of al Qaeda for some time, to fight the U.S., not necessarily in the U.S., but around the world.

One of the interesting things that he said -- I'm reading here -- he says, "Jordan, like Pakistan, has chosen to side with the U.S. in the war on terror," explaining that perhaps Jordan is paying the price for its support of the U.S., its friendship with the U.S., and some even in the Middle East and Asia are calling it the partnership with the U.S. in this war on terror, allowing the U.S. to go to war with Iraq through the Jordanian border, training the Iraqi forces post Saddam Hussein.

So, people see this as -- these attacks yesterday as the price that Jordan is paying for its relationship with the U.S. and the West.

PHILLIPS: Octavia Nasr, thank you so much.

You can see Ovtavia there monitoring the Web sites as this whole entire area right here at our international desk working all our stories that are happening around the world, overseas, particularly in Amman, Jordan, right now.

And it should come as little surprise that Jordan would be the target of terrorist attacks. The modern Arab state has a history, as Octavia mentioned, of sympathizing with the West and fending off plots by al Qaeda. Here's the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NASR (voice over): In the days after September 11, Jordan's King Abdullah was the first Arab leader to visit the White House. When President Bush designated Iran and Iraq as part of an "axis of evil," despite the fact that Jordan had diplomatic ties to both nations, King Abdullah endorsed the president's description.

Joint intelligence operations between the two countries date back even before September 11.

Jordan has received more than $200 million in aid each year since 1998 to help fight terrorism.

In December of 1999, U.S. and Jordanian cooperation uncovered a plot to attack Western hotels on the eve of the millennium. That plot was linked to al Qaeda.

In December of 2002, Jordan announced that two al Qaeda operatives had confessed to assassinating U.S. diplomat Lawrence Foley in Amman.

Experts say al Qaeda still has several cells operating inside Jordan.

Though Jordanian leaders would not publicly endorse the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Jordan was a key staging point for the U.S. military. And the nation has been helping train new Iraqi police and security forces.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, in the streets of Amman, Jordan, we've been talking, of course, about the situation with the Islamic militants. They are protesting as we continue to talk about the cries of "burn in hell" that these protesters have been saying about Zarqawi.

This is in the wake of the deadly terrorist bombings that the CNN International desk continues to monitor right here, claiming that the group al Qaeda in Iraq, led by the Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi, is leading that fight.

Now, from Washington now, CNN's David Ensor reports on why officials believe that claim is valid.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Even before the claim, U.S. intelligence officials were saying they suspect Zarqawi for several reasons.

(voice over): First, the method of the attacks, suicide bombs used as Zarqawi's terrorists have done to such deadly effect in neighboring Iraq.

REUEL GERECHT, FORMER CIA OFFICER: You don't need very many young men to have a pretty effective, pretty lethal terrorist cell, certainly if you have young men who are willing to incinerate themselves.

ENSOR: Second, the history. Zarqawi's men killed American diplomat Lawrence Foley in 2002. They were behind the rocket attacks in the port of Aqaba that killed two just months ago, according to U.S. officials. And they tried but failed to attack Jordanian intelligence in April of 2004.

And third, the Jordanian terrorist leader affiliated with al Qaeda has repeatedly stated his intention of hitting his homeland. In an April 2004 statement, he said, "We will have more fierce confrontations with the Jordanian government. The chapters of some of these confrontations have ended, but what is coming is more vicious and bitter, god willing."

Are the attacks part of a pattern? Like other al Qaeda attacks, they were simultaneous against soft targets, using suicide killers. And two of the hotels in Amman, the Radisson and the Hyatt, have been targeted unsuccessfully before.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: One of the things you learn about al Qaeda is, once they've tried something, it stays on the shelf. I mean, they've done some reconnaissance, they've thought about it. And yes, they may have been foiled once, but a little bit of their job is done if they want to go back to that target. The trade center is, of course, a good example of that.

ENSOR: Finally, U.S. intelligence officials note the brutality of the attack. Many of the dead were celebrating a wedding at one of the hotels.

(on camera): Al Qaeda's number two man recently warned Zarqawi in a letter that U.S. intelligence says it captured that his attacks on innocent Iraqis could lose the battle for Muslim hearts and minds in that country. It would seem in Jordan, too, that Zarqawi, or whoever did this, isn't concerned about that issue.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Now a story we want to update you on real quickly. We're getting word via our affiliate here in Atlanta, Georgia, WSB, that manhunt that was under way in Atlanta, that man that escaped from the jail here in Atlanta, we are being told he is in custody. We've got more information. We'll have it for you right after a quick break.

LIVE FROM returns in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Live pictures back here in our newsroom right at the CNN International desk. Igor (ph) actually right behind me working the phones and working the story in Iraq. He's telling me now more deadly suicide bombings at a restaurant that's pretty popular with Iraqi police.

Nearly three dozen people were killed, another 25 wounded. The multinational forces are putting the blame squarely on Iraq's most wanted man, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. We've been talking about him all day. And then more attacks to the north. In Tikrit, a suicide car bomber took an Iraqi army recruit waiting outside a medical center. Four recruits then were killed, 13 were wounded.

And in Mosul, gunmen opened fire on a group of police officers in civilian clothing, killing one and critically wounding two others.

Meantime, Marines are on the move near the Syrian border. They've taken their offensive to the town of Karbala, where so far they've encountered little resistance. That's in sharp contrast to this exclusive video taken of the fight in Husaybah, which until this week was an insurgent stronghold. Iraqi soldier remain there to help bury the civilian dead.

Now, civilians caught in the middle of clashing armies. It's an aspect of war that's as old as warfare itself. The latest U.S. military operation in western Iraq is no exception.

CNN's Aneesh Raman looks at the human toll in Operation Steel Curtain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They emerged waving white flags. These Iraqis whose lives were only last week ruled by insurgent fear, now confronting the unintended consequence of urban war.

Most of Husaybah's 30,000 residents left here after the war began when law and order broke down. But a few thousand of them stayed. And for the past four days they've lived on a battlefield as a massive military operation secured what had been for months a significant insurgent command post, going house to house, behind every door a possible death trap.

Residents told to signal they are friendly.

"They said stay in your homes," says this woman, "and leave your doors open." Everyone acknowledges insurgents were hiding in buildings. But in the aftermath, a CNN crew embedded with U.S. forces was taken to homes hit by air strikes where locals say there were no insurgents, only civilians.

In the first, seven bodies lay covered, blood still seeping through. Two of them were children. Their relatives crippled by pain.

At a second site atop a pile of debris, a frantic search for 17 family members buried beneath. In a war where friend and foe look identical, where houses are used often as insurgent outposts, civilians are caught in-between.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel terrible about it. I mean, there's no question about that. Nobody enjoys destroying things. Nobody enjoys causing pain and causing death. But that, unfortunately, is the reality of war. Again, how we get around that, get around that, by giving us the information that we need.

RAMAN: All over Iraq, information is the only way this fight will change. Better intelligence on where insurgents are as they move among civilians is what allows for more precise strikes.

LEITH KUBBA, IRAQI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: (INAUDIBLE) that's killed Iraqi army units. The key in this war is not the bullet, it's the intelligence. We have, unfortunately, using a lot of bullets and not as much intelligence.

RAMAN: But there's another catch in the complexity of a guerilla war. One the residents here already fear. With Iraqi security forces set to stay behind, the insurgents could return.

An enemy stronghold liberated, in turn, becoming a target. It's happened before. And so while the insurgents are now gone, the fighting now over, the people of Husaybah now surrender to uncertainty.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And back here in the U.S., just getting this new video in right now. You're looking at police who finally nabbed James Henderson. He's the man who escaped about 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time today when he was being taken from the Atlanta city jail to the county jail in northwest Atlanta.

He was wanted on charges including drugs, reckless conduct and cruelty to children. He had escaped earlier today. We've been following the story. Now James Henderson back in handcuffs with authorities, being taken back to the jail.

Meanwhile, the president of Syria says that his borders are not the problem. Bashar al-Assad addressed his nation last night and touched on allegations that insurgent fighters and weapons are allowed to cross from Syria into Iraq. The president says that those who make those claims should check their own broken borders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BASHAR AL-ASSAD, SYRIA (through translator): This big lie that is used as a plan, a pre-planned pretext against Syria, and it is exaggerated every time the occupation faces difficulties in Iraq. I said before, I talked about this issue. And when Powell came in 2003, he talked to us about controlling the borders, and I told him we could not control those borders. And this is a chronic problem.

There's no country that can control all of its borders. Some big trucks were coming. How do you want us to control individuals? So, if you are concerned with this issue, we would accept from you any technology to help in that regard. Nothing, of course, came.

Many delegations from America came, and they talked to us about the same thing. And they would start their talk that the United States cannot control its borders with Mexico. And they, at the same time, ask us to control our borders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Iraq's controversial deputy prime minister prime minister, Ahmed Chalabi, is expected to meet with Vice President Dick Cheney today. Chalabi is meeting with other administration officials while he's in the U.S.

In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, U.S. officials put stock in Chalabi's claims of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which has since been called misleading. He's also part of an FBI probe for possibly turning U.S. secrets over to Iran. And that has some lawmakers questioning whether he should be welcomed so warmly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: I think it's totally inappropriate. How can you have the Federal Bureau of Investigation say that he's under active investigation as to whether or not he leaked sensitive data to the Iranians that could have endangered American soldiers and this man is being treated like some visiting dignitary?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And we'll debate that visit this hour.

Also, the news keeps coming. We're going to keep bringing it to you.

More LIVE FROM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Our Fredericka Whitfield in B Control.

Finally, the man that escaped from that Fulton County jail here in the Atlanta area caught, back behind bars -- Fred?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: That is true. Just about four hours after he escaped from Atlanta police while they were transporting him to the Fulton County jail. He is now back in custody.

You're looking at tape that was taken just moments ago, about 25 minutes ago, really. Apparently, this man, James Henderson, who was already charged with marijuana possession and child cruelty, and he was arrested earlier this morning during a narcotics raid, and then he escaped the custody of Atlanta police, well, apparently, police are saying now that he went to familiar ground. He was only within a mile radius from the jail when he was apprehended. He was apprehended because of what police are calling community policing.

Apparently, a neighbor in the area of an apartment complex where James Henderson was apparently being harbored, or apparently had found some friends, or possibly even a family member at this apartment complex, a neighbor saw him and then immediately called police. Then police were able to quickly descend upon this scene and make this arrest without incident.

So, James Henderson, in his mid 20s, there still wearing the same clothes that police had described him to be wearing when he escaped from county jail, now back in custody in Atlanta -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now Fred, when he escaped he was in handcuffs? Is that right? Did he ever -- did he still have those handcuffs on?

WHITFIELD: Well, he was wearing flex cuffs.

PHILLIPS: Oh, OK.

WHITFIELD: And he was no longer wearing them once he was in the apartment complex...

PHILLIPS: Right.

WHITFIELD: ... where witnesses, of course, saw him. And police then took him into custody and have more secure cuffs now on him.

PHILLIPS: Yes, much easier to get the flex cuffs off.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

PHILLIPS: All right. Thanks, Fred.

Well, a music legend's work is being made available by downloading for the very first time. But iTunes has been shut out of the deal.

Susan Lisovicz live from the New York Stock Exchange for more on that story.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Right now we are waiting for a live press conference out of the Pentagon. Hopefully a briefing with some insight, possibly some answers to those explosions that happened in Amman, Jordan.

Larry DeRita we are expecting to step up to the microphone any time now to brief reporters. We will take that live when that happens.

Meanwhile, a sigh of relief spreads across France. The nightly riots in the Paris burbs were less severe overnight. Far fewer cars were set on fire than in previous nights. And there were no reported street clashes.

Officials credit several things, the tougher mandate given to police, and that residents were patrolling on their own. And one policeman notes there was a big soccer match on TV last night.

French President Jacques Chirac said that today his government learned a stark lesson from that rioting and that he intends to address the special needs in what he calls deprived neighborhood surrounding Paris. Well, the rioting and the government's response to it dealt a few knocks to the conservative Chirac administration as well, and now the look ahead, how to address the roots of the unrest. And what about the hundreds of people in police custody?

We go to Paris now and CNN's Jim Bittermann for more on that.

Jim, let's start with what happens to those in custody. There's this issue of legal and illegal immigrants, right? And what to do with them, and will they be deported?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. Nicolas Sarkozy, the interior minister, said yesterday in the parliament that in fact that they would be deported if they are legal or illegal and they have been sentenced as -- for having a roll in the rioting.

Basically, what he's saying is something you'd probably find in other countries as well. If you had a green card in the United States, you were convicted of a felony, you'd probably be in jeopardy of losing your green card and maybe in jeopardy of staying in the country, as well. And frankly, that's about the same thing he's saying here, except the way he said it in the parliament yesterday. Very tough, and it was taken very tough by the immigrant community here, who responded very vehemently against what he was saying -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about what being done, if anything, right now, to deal with these neighborhoods. You know, a lot of these immigrant families saying, look, we deal with police discrimination, police brutality, we don't have jobs, we're being ignored.

Is anything being done right now to deal with those neighborhoods?

BITTERMANN: Well, one thing, it was maybe more of a gesture than anything else, but eight police officers have been suspended just in the last few hours here because of something that happened on Monday night when a young man was beat up by police and, apparently, was caught on video.

That video not seen yet. Apparently the police have taken it into custody as part of the evidence in whatever investigation comes about here. But the police showing that they can police themselves.

More long-term, they have got to do a lot of things. I mean, basically there are problems of housing and problems of education. These are not things that are solved overnight, but they are things that the government has known about for many, many years. This kind of rioting has gone on for 20, 25 years here, but just never ever in this sort of extreme fashion and never for this length of time -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, you can look back. Of course, in 1968, the student uprising, it was a movement at that time, a lot of people wondering was this going to turn into some sort of ongoing movement. What is your sense? Is it ending? Is it over? Could it heat up again?

BITTERMANN: I think it could heat up again, especially if there are not some very drastic reforms here. Now, the government has already instituted a couple if educational reforms that will help out some of the schools in some of these urban areas.

So it's possible that they are going to be addressing some things, but the other thing that has come about here is it's been very clear in this situation and not in the other situations we've seen in the past here and that is the usual tools don't work. Community leaders talking to young people, for instance, they're just not listening. Religious people talking to young people, they're not listening either. These young people seem to be out of control.

PHILLIPS: Jim Bittermann, live from Paris. Of course we'll stay on the story and continue to check in with you. Thanks so much, Jim.

Well, new charges of a massive cover up by members of the U.S. Defense Intelligence community. Congressman Curt Weldon calls for a criminal investigation into what he calls the most important story of our lifetime. Weldon says the that Army's intelligence unit, known as Able Danger, identified the ring leaders of the 9/11 attacks more than a year before September 11th, but says the Pentagon ignored those warnings.

He called the 9/11 Commission a disappointment and a failure for not including that information about Able Danger in its final report. 9/11 Commission member, Congressman Slade Gorton, calls Able Danger irrelevant. What does Congressman Weldon say about that? Well, our Lou Dobbs asked him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: It's simply irrelevant, how Slade Gorton describes Able Danger. What's your reaction?

REP. CURT WELDON (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Unbelievable. Slade Gorton has never talked to any principal involved with Able Danger, and how he can go off and profess to know something about something that he's never talked to anyone about is beyond me. Slade Gorton is into what the 9/11 Commission is doing, Lou.

It's called CYA, cover their butts, pretend it didn't happen. How can you say something is historically insignificant that Louis Freeh just two weeks ago on national TV said Able Danger information was the kind of intelligence that could have prevented the hijackings. That's Louis Freeh saying that two weeks ago.

Able Danger was briefed to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in January of 2001. How could you call that historically insignificant? Lou, this is a cover up. It's not a third-rate political burglary, it's a cover up of information on the largest attack in the history of the country.

DOBBS: And, Congressman, you're calling for a criminal investigation. Obviously, you're not going to receive a great deal of cooperation from the leadership, the Republican leadership, in the House or the Senate. You're a Republican. What kind of reaction are you getting as you go one on one with your fellow Congressman?

WELDON: Lou, the members of Congress want the facts to come out, both parties. I did a briefing this afternoon for members of Congress. We had dozens of their members and their staff show up and just within two hours, Lou, today, I got 100 signatures, 100 signatures from Republicans and Democrats across the country, liberals and conservative, to Secretary Rumsfeld demanding that we allow these Able Danger military officers to testify in an open hearing.

The American people need to know the facts. They need to know the truth. Three-thousand people were killed, 17 sailors were killed in the U.S.S. Cole, the 9/11 Commission did not do its job. It's time to get the facts out to the American people.

DOBBS: Let me put Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Congressman. When ask about Able Danger, Donald Rumsfeld said, quote, "it's such an interesting story, of course it's something that occurred well before this administration came in, back in the '90s as I understand it. And it's an interesting story." What's your response?

WELDON: Well, Donald Rumsfeld would not have been given the detailed information about Able Danger because it ended at the end of 2000 before he came into office. However, Lou, we have to understand there were people within the Pentagon who stayed in place from the 1990/2000 period into 2001. In fact, they're still there today.

They have a vest interest in not having this story be told because some of them are going to be embarrassed because the American people will see that we failed them in 1999, in 2000. We failed them in 2001.

We had information we should have acted upon. It was denied from being transferred to the FBI and, as Louis Freeh said just two weeks ago, could have allowed us to stop the hijackings from having ever occurred.

DOBBS: Louis Freeh the former FBI director. So, at this point, Congressman, what -- where does the investigation go from here? The people that are most critical to establishing what the unit, Able Danger, knew and was capable of disseminating relevant to 9/11 have been gagged by the Pentagon and cannot speak. What do you do now?

WELDON: Well, we have a DOD internal inspector general investigation that actually commenced today. I met for an hour and a half with four of their top leaders. They are in fact -- they were requested by three separate members of Congress: one senator, and two House member. They have commenced an internal investigation of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

In addition to that, I talked to the head of the General Accounting Office and I have asked him to look at a criminal investigation of what happened and the deliberate attempt to cover up information. The person who debriefed Scott Philpott, Lou, was a guy named Dieter Snell.

Dieter Snell worked for Jamie Gorelick. We have to know whether or not there was a deliberate attempt by Dieter Snell not to have the 9/11 Commission members know the full details of what Able Danger was doing. I can't answer that question. An investigation needs to take place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, has bird flu spread to the Middle East? We're going to have an update.

Plus, it's a $43 billion industry. How are U.S. poultry businesses planning to battle bird flu fears right here and abroad?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Reporters asking about evidence in Amman, Jordan, explosions. Larry DiRita at the Pentagon. Let's listen in.

QUESTION: ... and are you doing anything to increase those efforts to find him?

LAWRENCE DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: There's -- obviously, it's just too early to talk about any kind of details. And the Jordanian government has announced its own investigation into this and we'll have to see how that investigation unfolds. I can't provide any detailed knowledge at the moment.

Zarqawi is an individual of intense interest. Obviously, in the global war on terror, he is one of the leaders of the Al Qaida movement. And he is somebody in whom the coalition has great interest in apprehending at some point.

And it's my belief that we will.

But at the moment, we have not. We have captured a number of his associates and will continue to do that. But it is a matter of high import for the coalition.

QUESTION: Have there been any incidents recently in which you came close to catching him or might have just missed him that you know of?

DIRITA: The coalition, the Iraqi security forces, the U.S. forces -- I think General Lynch may have provided some indication earlier today to the press corps out there in Baghdad -- has apprehended quite a number of the leaders of Al Qaida in Iraq as well as around the world.

Getting close isn't good enough. And we know that.

Eventually, Zarqawi will be captured or killed. That's my belief. I think that's the confidence that the coalition has.

But at the moment, that hasn't happened.

QUESTION: Larry, since the attacks on the hotel, have there been any changes in either limitations on the U.S. military movements inside Jordan or relationship to the Jordanian military?

And also...

DIRITA: Not to my knowledge. Our military, we have a very small number of military inside Jordan, and we can provide those specific numbers, but it's not a very large number.

And to my knowledge, there's been no change in their status.

QUESTION: Do you have any specifics? One example is the number of Americans, military, in Jordan.

And also, could you sketch out a little bit the highlighted aspects of the U.S.-Jordanian military relationship in terms of what you do, regular exercises...

DIRITA: It's obviously a very important partner in the region, the country of Jordan. Jordan has contributed a field hospital to OIF, OEF, I should say and OIF, both, which has been much appreciated inside both Afghanistan and Iraq.

There are some logistic security arrangements that we have with Jordan that I don't want to go into in any detail, but it's the normal things one would expect for a country in that region.

And as I said, to the best of our understanding now, our U.S. military are accounted for. And it's a small number. And we'll provide the specific number. I thought I had it here, but I do not. And we'll provide that for you.

QUESTION: Do you have any other aspects like arms sales or...

DIRITA: I'm not prepared to go into it now. Such as we're able to provide, I'll be happy to try and provide that for you.

QUESTION: Larry, a couple of quick items. Al Qaida in Iraq, Zarqawi's group, has claimed responsibility for the attacks in Jordan. Do you believe that claim?

DIRITA: They have made the claim, apparently. Abu Musab Zarqawi is Jordanian. We know that. His communication or the attempted communication between Ayman Zawahiri and Zarqawi suggested an interest in using Iraq to conduct these kinds of attacks. It is consistent with the kinds of attacks that Al Qaida has conducted in Iraq and elsewhere. It is certainly plausible that the claim of Al Qaida in Iraq is valid, but it's just not something that we're able to establish yet.

QUESTION: Well, assuming that that is the case, does it show that Zarqawi's network is getting stronger in that it's now able to launch deadly attacks outside Iraq as well as inside?

DIRITA: Well, Al Qaida an Zarqawi have had an interest in conducting these kinds of attacks throughout Europe. Zarqawi was active in Europe before the war. So it would be difficult to know whether this reflects some relative strength or not.

The fact is that this is a terrorist organization that has global reach, and we've seen it yet again in Jordan of the kind of devastation that they can do when they choose to attack innocent civilians.

QUESTION: Larry, Senator McCain said today that the current ideas of a possible draw-down during 2006 are exactly wrong.

And I'm just going to read this quote: "Instead of drawing down, we should be ramping up with more civil affairs, soldiers, translators and counterinsurgency operations teams. Our decisions about troop levels should be tied to the success or failure of the mission in Iraq, not to the number of Iraqi troops trained and equipped." Can you respond to that?

DIRITA: Well, I haven't seen Senator McCain's comments and he's obviously a respected memeber of the Armed Services Committee, a military man himself. He's got his own judgements and he's certainly entitled to express those judgements.

The judgements that the Secretary of Defense and the president have tended to rely on has been the judgement of our military commanders, and what we've said consistently is somewhat a little bit different than the way you've characterized what Senator McCain said.

We've said consistently that it's based on conditions and the growing capability of the Iraqi security forces and the evolving handover of responsibility to the Iraqi security forces is just one of the conditions. There are other conditions. The political milestones are being met. Those are important conditions, as well. And, so, there's a -- there's a number of conditions that will have to be assessed...

PHILLIPS: Pentagon spokesperson Larry DiRita there, briefing reporters on news of the day. Of course, talking about Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the man believed to be behind those terrorist attacks in Amman, Jordan.

Erica Marguiles (ph) is a journalist and writer. He knows about suicide bombings. He's joining us after the break to talk more in- depth about that.

Also, the news keeps coming in. We're trying to keep up with it and bring it all to you as it's happening. LIVE FROM, more of it, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Back here live at B Control, we're talking medical news now. Add another country to the possible list of bird flu cases. Kuwait is testing an exotic bird imported from Asia and a migratory flamingo to see if they have the same lethal strain of bird flu that has killed millions of birds across Asia. If so, it would be the first time H591 has been seen in the Middle East.

In the meantime China, Vietnam and Thailand are all reporting new H591 outbreaks in poultry today. They arrived just as the annual flu season for humans is kicking in.

And we're going to try to put this as delicately as possible, but officials in Vietnam are trying to convince farmers to stop using chicken excrement to feed fish. A newspaper in Ho Chi Minh City says that farmers in one province are throwing at least 100 tons of chicken waste a day into a local lake. Well, that lake flows into a river that provides water for about seven million in Ho Chi Minh City.

And although the water is purified, experts say it's still an extremely dangerous practice. And in the past two years, 91 people have caught bird flu in Vietnam and 42 have died. The most recent death reported earlier this week.

Now, although the H5N1 bird flu has not been detected anywhere in North America, U.S. companies that depend on poultry don't intend to be sitting ducks amid pandemic pandemonium. Companies like KFC, Perdue, Tyson, they're all ramping up P.R. campaigns to reassure customers that it's safe to eat cooked poultry products. We've even had experts on to say the same thing. And don't worry about that Thanksgiving bird, we're told, too.

A recent poll for a food industry journal says that consumer concern is on the rise. About 40 percent of those asked said that they were both aware and concerned about the bird flu.

Now, concerns about avian flu spreading to humans have overshadowed other questions, namely, what about the birds? A large outbreak could have a major impact on the U.S. economy.

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UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: The United States is the world's largest producer and exporter of poultry. Another fact you may not know, Americans eat more chicken and turkey than they do either beef or pork. The retail value of America's chicken industry was about $43 billion last year. That's not counting eggs or turkey.

There's no way of knowing exactly how much an outbreak of the bird flu would affect the poultry industry as a whole, but it's safe to say it could be a lot of money. And that's not the only impact. The poultry and egg industries use about $80 billion pounds of feed grain each year, so the grain industry is watching avian flu developments closely, as well. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, stop the presses and get me Tokyo on the line. Right now Godzilla lives or, to be more precise, Godzilla lived. Scientists just announcing the discovery of an attached fossilized skull from a marine crocodile that lived 135 million years ago. The leader of the expedition that found the skull is calling it Godzilla. And you can see the resemblance, of course.

It's also picked up the nickname Chico Malo, or Bad Boy, of the ocean. He was 12 feet of mean with four flippers instead of land- lubber legs and no doubt a top predator, just like his horror flick carnation. The details are out today in the journal "Science" and he gets the cover on the December issue of "National Geographic."

Straight ahead, New York City in the mix. The Rockefeller Center Christmas tree has arrived. We're going to take you there live.

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PHILLIPS: So, what's 74 feet tall, weighs nine tons and helps ring in the holidays? You guessed it, the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree. Look at that. It's been just been hoisted into place after an overnight journey from Wayne, New Jersey. I'll have to find out why Wayne, New Jersey. Now comes the fun part: decorating the massive Norway spruce. It's a tradition that dates all the way back to 1931, when workers building the Rockefeller Center complex put up that first tree.

Now, here's a way to keep your pets from messing with your Christmas tree. Just turn it upside down. Apparently, it's all the rage. Stores can't keep the fake trees bolted to the ceiling. Of course, they're a bit pricier than the one you pick off the lot. An upside down version can run you anywhere from $280 to $600.

And put these babies on my Christmas list, will you? They may look like regular socks, but they're actually made out of corn. Yes, corn. The biodegradable footwear being sold in Japan right now. But if it's successful, the three American manufacturers may start selling them in other countries, including the U.S. So, what's the benefit of corn? Still trying to figure that one out. Somebody help me.

Well, from America to Africa, that's the spiritual and sometimes real-life journey thousands of Episcopalians are making. Many of them have been prompted by their church's decision to ordain its first openly gay bishop, and the controversy is leading to new converts for a church in Uganda.

CNN's Alphonso Van Marsh explains.

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(SINGING)

ALPHONSO VAN MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American missionary Phil Leber leads Christians in a song in Uganda's capital. Eight years ago, the former lawyer quit his job and moved his family from Washington to Kampala to spread the word of his Episcopalian church.

PHIL LEBER, AMERICAN CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY: In our heart we just knew that this was the thing that God wanted us to do.

VAN MARSH: Phil and his wife Jennifer came here, representing a church that was based in what they called traditional Christian values. They remember the first years of their mission, proud of the work they did spreading the word of God.

But, then, two years ago, their Episcopalian leaders back in the U.S. moved to recognize gays in the church. The Lebers quit their mission and their church, and joined the Anglican Church. They say Episcopalians across America are doing the same.

JENNIFER LEBER, AMERICAN CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY: The ones that are leaving do not have bishops that are godly people.

VAN MARSH: The Episcopalian Church is the U.S. branch of the wider Anglican Church, but since it the Episcopalians elevated an openly gay man to the role of bishop, more conservative American Episcopalians are turning to the Anglican Church of Uganda for moral leadership.

(voice-over): The Anglican Church of Uganda says the Lebers, like more than 5,000 other former American Episcopalians, consider Kampala their spiritual, if not their physical home, where Anglicans accept their bible literally and pack this church, still under construction, inside and outside, for five hours of conservative worship.

HENRY LUKE OROMBI, ARCHBISHOP: We have walked down the slippery road of immorality. If as if man to woman weren't enough, we are going to man to man and woman to woman. Now, when are going to act?

VAN MARSH: This is the man who leads the church. Eight million members, they say: Archbishop Henry Luke Orombi.

OROMBI: Their Episcopalians don't even accept that homosexuality is sin.

VAN MARSH: His fundamentalist convictions, increasingly as popular from the pulpit as its speaking engagements from Uganda to the states, are lifeline for conservatives caught up in the church's crisis.

The Episcopalian Church, with 2.3 million members in the U.S., says that by recognizing gays, it is with becoming more inclusive, bringing the word of God to even more people. But the much smaller network of Anglican communion dioceses and parishes says dozens of U.S. parishes are cutting ties with the Episcopal Church.

Orombi says so far, eight U.S. parishes have converted to his Church of Uganda, with more to come.

OROMBI: I think it's the stability and continuity of our church life that is attracting many Americans to come to us.

VAN MARSH: When I caught up with Orombi at his residence, he said there's no contradiction when you preach acceptance and conservative views. Orombi says he's not recruiting Americans...

OROMBI: What we are offering is a kind of ecclesiastical refuge status. Like, let them come for now. When things settle down in their own country, they'll go back.

(SINGING)

VAN MARSH: Phil Leber and his wife say until the Episcopal leadership repents and removes the openly gay bishop in the states, they won't consider going back to that church again.

Alphonso Van Marsh, CNN, Kambala.

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