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18-Year-Old Double Murder Suspect Arrested in Indiana; Operation Steel Curtain Enters New Phase; Interview with President Vicente Fox
Aired November 14, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to the third hour of LIVE FROM.
The search ends, and the questioning is just beginning in a double killing in Pennsylvania. The suspect 18-year-old David Ludwig, was found about two-and-a-half-hours ago in Indiana with his missing girlfriend. Police say that Ludwig killed the girl's parents at their home in Warwick Township yesterday, just before taking off with her.
CNN's Mary Snow following the investigation from Warwick Township.
Mary, let's start by telling us, where are the two right now? Are they in jail? Have they been arraigned? Are they being questioned?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, we are about to find that information out in a short amount of time.
The Indiana State Police plan to have a news conference within this hour. And we will get updated on what exactly has happened, because both, as you know, are in police custody.
Now, the Indiana State Police say they have been continuing their end of the investigation. And, ultimately, David Ludwig will be extradited. As to when exactly that will happen, that is the question mark. He has been charged with two counts of criminal homicide, one count of kidnapping, and one count of reckless endangerment.
The question mark is whether Kara Borden will be charged. Police here were asked about that. They said they are continuing to investigate.
So, we anticipate the next development to come from the state of Indiana.
PHILLIPS: All right, so, Mary, what do we know about their backgrounds? They have -- I understand they were communicating via Internet -- one of them even has a blog -- and that they were being homeschooled together?
SNOW: Well, police have said that -- and if -- if you went on the Web, there are the blogs, as you mentioned.
But the school district here in Warwick Township also says that both children in the -- both of their respective families have been homeschooled for years. And what happens is, each family has to submit a report once a year.
I asked the superintendent of the Warwick Township schools, was there any indication of any kind of problem? And he -- he said that there had not been, that David Ludwig was currently in the 12th grade, and that Kara Borden had been in the ninth grade.
As to how they met, police are indicating that they met at a homeschool event -- but, still, a lot of question marks about exactly how they met, how long they knew each other.
PHILLIPS: OK, Mary, we will stay on the story and keep checking in with you.
Mary Snow, thank you so much.
Meanwhile, another story we have been following for you within the past, I would say, 45 minutes or so, and that's a suspicious package that was left in front of the LAPD Department, the southwest division.
Tony Harris in the newsroom working more on this story.
What do we know, Tony?
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kyra.
We won't take long with this one. We can give you an update on the story and tell you that the all-clear has been given. You mentioned the suspicious package was left in front of that precinct building. That's not very far from the University of California, or USC.
The bomb squad, as you know, was called in. The package was discovered at about 9:30 this morning, local time, in Los Angeles.
But, once again, the all-clear has been given. And the offending suspicious package, Kyra, turned out to be a bag of C.D.s.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: There you go.
PHILLIPS: Do we know what kind of C.D.s?
HARRIS: We do not.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: Someone's bootleg operation gone terribly awry.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: All right. Tony, thank you so much.
HARRIS: Sure.
PHILLIPS: Well, now the simmering battling over Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito -- documents just made public may provide grist for Alito's opponents.
In a job application to the Justice Department back in 1985, Alito made reference to his work in the office of the U.S. solicitor general. He wrote: "I am particularly proud of my contributions in recent cases in which the government argued that racial and ethnic quotas should not be allowed and that the Constitution does not protect a right to an abortion."
Alito says that he was advancing legal opinions in which he believed very strongly. Alito's confirmation hearings are to take place right after the holiday season.
CNN has now learned that U.S. troops in Iraq have found a detention facility crammed with neglected prisoners. Iraqi officials say that some of the prisoners had undergone torture. An American general says that a hunt for a missing boy led his troops to this building in Baghdad. And he says, the boy wasn't there, but the troops discovered about 175 detainees, including some in need of medical attention.
Iraqi police tell CNN that the building is run by Iraqi commandos, whose -- answer to Iraq's Interior Ministry.
CNN -- CNN has called the ministry. Or, actually, CNN made calls to the ministry, I'm told. Those went unanswered. So, we're keeping our eyes on this story, which is under investigation right now by the U.S. military.
Well -- well, the U.S. offensive along the Iraqi-Syrian border has entered a new phase. And U.S. and Iraqi troops have moved into a third city, Obadi (ph). And officials say that about 50 insurgents there have already been killed.
Operation Steel Curtain began with fighting in two other cities. That fighting is over. But troops now have to deal with the aftermath.
We have a report from Husayba. And we want to tell you in advance that some of these images are a bit disturbing.
So, here's our CNN's Arwa Damon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His was body number 17 to be to be pulled from the rubble, 7-year-old Abdullah Saddam Rakam (ph).
SHAHIR ABDULLAH MOHAMMAD, UNCLE (through translator): There was a family in the house and there was firing. A fight was in the area and the air strike happened and hit the house. DAMON: It's the face of collateral damage, civilians caught in the crossfire. Now, with the fighting over, the citizens and the armed forces must face each other and build trust to rebuild the city. It's perhaps the toughest part of the fight.
About 500 of Husayba's men demonstrate in front of the U.S. Marine base -- their demands: the restoration of basic services, the release of detainees, and help in burying their dead. It's the second part of the battle, the reconstruction that follows the fighting.
CAPTAIN RICHARD PITCHFORD, U.S. MARINES CORPS: We have trained for this. And it becomes a different problem, and -- and it's changing gears for us. But it's really a much potentially more rewarding, because we can start to see the positive effects.
DAMON: But it may be some time in coming. Many are still raw with emotion and anger.
KARIM AYAJ, HUSAYBA RESIDENT (through translator): If there were a couple of terrorists in this city, is it right to bring down the roofs on innocent people's heads, on women and children? Is this democracy? Is this freedom?
DAMON: Some slightly more optimistic:
TAMIL EL-KUNAYSI, HUSAYBA RESIDENT (through translator): If water and power came back, the city would be better. If the bulldozers came and cars could move, then, it would get better. The city will improve. People will have the impression that the Marines are here to help the city and not against the city.
DAMON: A makeshift city council puts forward their demands to the Marine commander.
SHEIK MAHMOUD AL THAIR, COUNCIL SPOKESMAN (through translator): Now we're going break up the demo, because they promised us that we would be able to get in food rations and doctors, and they would open the streets.
DAMON: And the Marines asked for something in return.
PITCHFORD: I asked for two things. One was your patience. And I understand that it will take a while to get things back to normal in the city. It could take a long time. The other thing I asked from them is that they can help us with the security environment. I told them that I couldn't help them unless the bad people stayed out of the city.
DAMON: Lines of communication now open, the opportunity to rebuild Husayba brick by brick, a challenge, but not an impossibility, a small window of chance to turn this city around.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Husayba, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIPS: And straight ahead, terror and nukes down under. CNN International's Michael Holmes is with us. We're working this developing story and others around the globe.
LIVE FROM is back right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: The U.S. commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks says the government still isn't doing enough to prevent the country from future attack. The panel issued scores of recommendation 16 months ago.
And, in a follow-up report today, the commission says there are continuing concerns in a number of areas, including the possibility nuclear arms could fall into the hands of terrorists. Said Commission Chairman Thomas Kean -- quote -- "We still do not have a maximum effort against the most urgent threat, everybody agrees the most urgent threat to the American people" -- unquote.
Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about you're security.
Well, in Australia, chilling reports this hour of what may have been a possible terrorist attack in the making of the country's only nuclear plant. Police say that three suspects of an alleged Islamic terror cell had their sights on the -- the Lucas Heights nuclear reactor in suburban Sydney.
Well, the three were among several Muslims arrested last week in a counterterrorism operation. Police say the three men were assembling the ingredients from chemicals and detonators, to digital timers and batteries, to carry out a major attack -- the alleged leader, a radical Muslim cleric who police say told the men that, in order to die for jihad, they must cause maximum damage and kill as many people as possible.
Joining us for more on the case, CNN's Michael Holmes.
You not only are from this area, but you have covered this story.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
PHILLIPS: Have you talked with family and friends? And -- and, I mean, is this something you grew up with, I guess, this threat of extremism...
HOLMES: Absolutely not.
PHILLIPS: ... in Australia?
HOLMES: No, I mean, the -- the -- the great Australian lifestyle I grew up with was -- was surfing, swimming, and...
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: ... and playing sport and going to the beach.
PHILLIPS: Just like we -- we see in the brochures.
HOLMES: It pretty much was like that.
These days, it's different. There is a change in Australia now. And Australians, after Bali, particularly -- and there's been more than one attack there -- are -- are starting to feel more threatened by terrorism in the region. And attacks like the one that was apparently, or allegedly, being planned involving a nuclear reactor that is not pop -- popular in Australia, for a start.
PHILLIPS: That's right. Australians are very anti-nuclear, right?
HOLMES: Always have been, not as much as the New Zealanders, but they are anti-nuclear. And this has always been a controversial reactor.
Lucas Heights is in the southern suburbs of Sydney. It's not like it's out in the countryside or in the outback. It's in the suburbs. And security there has been breached in the past by anti- nuclear demonstrators scaling walls and things like that, not getting right in, but getting through the perimeter. And the idea that, perhaps, Islamic extremists were going to try to get access to the place, I think, is terrifying for Australia.
PHILLIPS: How big is the Muslim population, or, I should say, the -- you know, the, well, Muslim population, the extremist population? Obviously, there's a -- a difference between the two -- in Australia?
HOLMES: Another thing for concern for Australians -- it is small, I have to say. It's a very small Muslim population anyway. And the number of extremists is -- is small as well. But they are there.
And this is something, again, Australians have not really had to -- to -- to live with, the notion of this. There's -- there's a couple of extreme clerics in Sydney and Melbourne, the major cities in Australia, who are exhorting jihad, who are saying it is right to be fighting against the occupiers of Iraq and the like and who have fomented this group, this small cell, that appears to want to do spectacular things.
If not Lucas Heights, there was talk that -- that Sydney is a prime target, because it is so beautiful, because it's spectacular, because of its -- its -- its siting on the Sydney Harbor. You have got the bridge. You have got the opera house. I mean...
PHILLIPS: A little terrorist training, a little sightseeing.
HOLMES: Exactly.
PHILLIPS: Perfect place, Australia.
HOLMES: And -- and jihad training camps out...
PHILLIPS: Yes. There are...
HOLMES: ... in the outback.
PHILLIPS: That's what I wanted to ask you.
HOLMES: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Are there training camps in the outback?
HOLMES: Apparently so.
There -- there -- what -- what it was, it was a -- they have big farms out there. This is a cattle station that was thousands of acres. And they were renting out to hunters. And, apparently, this group is accused of going up to a couple of these properties on different occasions and using them, essentially, as terrorist training camps, training for jihad, as opposed to going out pig-shooting, which is what they claimed they were doing.
And there is -- there is significant evidence that they were using it, in much the same way -- for Australians, you know, terrorist training camps are in Pakistan or Afghanistan. They're -- they're not rural New South Wales. And there's a bit a of wakeup call going on in Australia right now about what sort of threats they may be facing.
PHILLIPS: So, what is being done to -- to get rid of these training camps, to crack down on, possibly, something that might grow into a bigger problem? Are -- is there a massive campaign to knock...
HOLMES: There -- well, there is certainly legislation.
The Howard government there has been putting in what some are calling draconian legislation that gives police a lot more power to -- to surveil and to arrest and to hold suspects. Also, there's been a -- a big push to get these clerics to stop making Friday prayer a time of calling for jihad.
And that sort of thing is being made illegal, too. So, there is -- is a legal move afoot. Australia's security organization, which is called ASIO, which is the Australian version of the CIA, has become a lot more active. They're recruiting more agents as well. They -- it's a different Australia than the one I grew up in.
PHILLIPS: Have you talked to your -- I mean, you still have family there and lots of friends there.
HOLMES: Sure.
PHILLIPS: What do they tell you about it? Has life changed for them as well?
HOLMES: Not in a day-to-day sense, I think.
But, in the big picture, the -- just your feeling of -- of Australia not being -- Australia was always known as the lucky country, right from back when it was populated by the British.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: And -- and it doesn't feel quite so safe and lucky anymore.
And -- and it's -- it's not just this -- this terror cell. There have been -- there's been an importation of Asian gangs, triads from Hong Kong and China, who have -- who have set up bases in Australia and carrying out criminal operations. There -- there's a number of other things that are worrying Australia.
And the fabric of society has started to change. It's a very multicultural country, perhaps one of the most multicultural in the world. There -- there -- there's about 150 nations represented -- or nationalities represented in Australia. And there's a feeling now that the fabric of the society is altering in a way that they're not going to be able to go back.
PHILLIPS: Michael Holmes, I'm seeing an assignment for you.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: Not only to go back home.
HOLMES: Send me back. I will go to the...
PHILLIPS: I'm telling you...
HOLMES: Yes.
PHILLIPS: ... you have got some interesting stories to turn.
HOLMES: And -- and -- and I could go for a surf while I'm there.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: The beaches are still there.
PHILLIPS: A little bit of everything, indeed.
Michael Holmes, thank you so much.
Well, straight ahead, renting parts of your favorite books? It's happening right now. Find out who doesn't think it's a great idea, though. We are going to check the markets, also.
LIVE FROM has all of the news you want this afternoon. So, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, reality bites the dust for Martha Stewart. Sources say NBC has passed on a second helping of Stewart's version of "The Apprentice." I hate to say this, but, if you saw it, you would probably know why. If you describe the show as a delicate cheese souffle -- you like it? Really?
Steph (ph) likes it.
Well, then poor ratings slammed the oven door. The homemaking diva and former jailbird will make her last appearance in the televised boardroom for a December 21 finale. An NBC spokesperson says the network never intended for that show to run more than season.
So, you got any kids on your holiday shopping list? Then you are going to want to hear about the latest inductions at National Toy Hall of Fame in Rochester, New York. The classic board game "Candy land" made the cut this year. Remember that one? Gumdrop Mountain and the also fame-worth -- yes, you're shaking your head. See, we all -- we're all getting a little verklempt with the history here.
But, anyway, the good old Jack-in-the-box, remember that, still carrying the you-know-what out of unsuspecting toddlers everywhere -- but our favorite honoree, something that every parent will recognize. It doesn't come in a box. It is a box. Race car, clubhouse, pirate ship, you name it, nothing beats the plain old cardboard box.
Well, Google is looking to become the Blockbuster Video of online book business.
Susan Lisovicz joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange to read us all the details.
Hi, Susan.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra, reading it online, of course.
Consider it a digital rental. According to "The Wall Street Journal," Google has asked at least one publisher to see if there would be any interest in allowing customers to rent an online copy of a book for one week. Readers would then not be able to download or print the books. Fees for new releases could be in the range of 10 percent of the book's list price.
Another Google project is already causing controversy. Its print library aims to digitize the collections of a handful of university libraries. Amazon.com has already announced plans to sell individual pages and chapters of books online for a few cents per page.
Kyra, it's all about new revenue streams for authors and publishers in the digital world.
PHILLIPS: Of course. We all talk about revenue streams, don't we?
Well, Wal-Mart looking into downloads as well, right? LISOVICZ: Mm-hmm. And this one is about movies, Kyra -- Wal- Mart reportedly in talks with Hollywood studios about installing kiosks in its stores to let consumers download movies on to DVDs -- "The Financial Times" reporting that the plan is similar to a program already being tested in some stores which allows consumers to download songs on to C.D.s.
The move will help Wal-Mart by cutting down on shelf space and benefit the studios by lowering their transportation costs. Wal-Mart also came out with its quarterly earnings today, solid earnings today. Sales were a bit under what the Street was expecting, but its shares are rallying, up about half-a-percent. We can't say that about the rest of the market -- the Dow industrials up just a tiny fraction. The Nasdaq is down three points.
And that is the latest from Wall Street -- more LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: We want to warn you now that what you're about to see may be a little tough to watch. What these kids have is Tourette's syndrome. And it doesn't go away. It's involuntary. And it's important that you know that, for their sake.
Paula Zahn reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Uncontrollable grunts, bizarre outbursts, seemingly violent ticks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mom!
ZAHN: Tens of thousands of kids across America suffer from them daily. The neurological disorder known as Tourette's syndrome, which you might have thought of as an adult's disease, can strike when kids are just toddlers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They like come out all the time.
ZAHN: Colin has had Tourette's for as long as he can remember.
COLIN: Actually, when I was born, I came out and I had my head shaking somehow. I don't know. That's what I was told, is that I was brought up, my whole life I was shaking my head.
ZAHN: Home video shows Collin (ph) shaking his head as he takes some of his first steps. Then at age 3, as he opens presents. By the time Collin (ph) is 6, he's shaking his head and coughing -- classic indicators of Tourette's, and ticks he still has today at age 13. Ticks he's likely to have for the rest of his life.
11-year-old William knows how Colin feels. He also has Tourette's. They both met with me to honestly talk about what it's like to grow up with this disorder. (on camera): So, Colin, how old were you when you realized that your head was shaking like that?
COLIN: I guess I always realized it. It's just -- it was always just so natural for me that sometimes I can't even tell if I am or am not doing it, if I am at the most comfortable of comfortable situations.
ZAHN: You are pretty comfortable right now on a beanbag chair. Do you know that you are shaking your head?
COLIN: Yes.
ZAHN: Is it embarrassing at times?
COLIN: It's like, you know, those dreams where you have a dream where you are like walking into school and you notice, oh, my God, I'm in my underwear. When you are a new kid at school, it's almost exactly what it's like for most people with Tourette's syndrome.
ZAHN (voice-over): Tourette's generally appears in kids sometime between the ages of 2 and 15. Boys are three to four times more likely to have the disorder.
COLIN: It is involuntary. We can't help it.
ZAHN: That sudden urge to do or say certain things can be overwhelming.
COLIN: One of my big ticks is like breathing through my nose, but like really quick and up my nose really quick. Or that kind of stuff. And I don't -- I don't know. And blinking. I blink pretty fast.
ZAHN: Dr. Barbara Coffey is the director of the Institute for the Study of Tourette's and Movement Disorders. She says ticks can sometimes be partially controlled. But in the long run, it's uncomfortable for kids not to let them out.
DR. BARBARA COFFEY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF TOURETTE'S AND MOVEMENT DISORDERS: If you think of it like a sneeze, when you have a sneeze, the feeling builds up before you sneeze and it goes away once you actually sneeze and release it. It's very similar to the tick, and many kids experience a very uncomfortable feeling of tension or pressure or discomfort inside of them before they have the tick.
ZAHN: In this video, you can actually see a young girl struggling with her Tourette's. After holding it in all day, she finally lets out her ticks.
Tragically, there's no cure for Tourette's syndrome. Although as some kids get older, it does become easier to control.
COFFEY: In general, it's not necessarily a lifetime of the same degree of symptoms. In general, the symptoms improve in many, many children.
ZAHN: But adolescence, already a tough time for many, can be especially difficult for kids like Colin and William.
(on camera): Colin, what do you think is the hardest thing about having Tourette's?
COLIN: It would have to be school, substitutes, that whole area.
ZAHN: And how do they deal with you?
COLIN: Just people that don't know. There are some people that don't get dealt the card, hey, this kid has Tourette's syndrome. It's basically you are just sitting there and you're shaking your head, and eventually you're going to be ticking and coughing and coughing and ticking, and shaking your head and coughing, and she's just going to be like, what is this? You go outside. So, I usually do go outside and then...
ZAHN: ... So no one has even bothered to explain to the substitute that you have Tourette's?
COLIN: No.
ZAHN: It's that kind of ignorance and insensitivity test that these young teens want to end. That is why both William and Colin, along with 21 other kids, participated in the new HBO documentary, I have Tourette's, but Tourette's doesn't have me.
A film showing the daily struggles of thousands of kids dealing with this heartbreaking syndrome. Every minute of the day, fighting to control the uncontrollable.
WILLIAM: I want everyone who hears me right now to understand that it is not contagious. It is not a mental disability. Everyone who has Tourette's is the same as you. Or anyone really.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Just one more thing the documentary Paula just mentioned, I Have Tourette's, but Tourette's doesn't have me, is airing tonight on our sister network, on HBO Family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And now shocking video, newly smuggled out of North Korea, showing that things that the oppressed and starving people of that country are worse than can be imagined.
You should know that the following story and excerpt from a CNN report special broadcast called "Undercover in the Secret State" begins with a public execution. You have a choice about watching. Those who were not there did not.
CNN's Frank Sesno narrates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK SESNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: North Korea, March 2005, a crowd has been ordered to gather in an open field. A party official makes an announcement. Children have been brought to watch.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD (through translator): Mom. I want to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just hold on, and let's watch them go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It looks scary.
SESNO: The sentence is about to be passed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): All the workers who came here today and the inhabitants of the nearby village are about to learn the punishment for these crimes.
SESNO: Three men are about to die. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How stupid these criminals are. Kim Jong Il is great in comparison to these worthless criminals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Carry out the death sentence immediately!
SESNO: These people have committed the crime most damaging to North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Il, they made contact with the outside world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They have been involved in the illegal act of aiding people to defect the country. They trafficked women across the border to China. We have to protect North Korea from the outside influence and build up a strong guard to keep these influences out .
SESNO: Three policemen step forward and raise their rifles. On the left, a prisoner is tied to a poll.
(GUNSHOTS)
SESNO: The next day, a different town, another public execution for the same crimes, helping people escape to the outside world.
(GUNSHOTS)
SESNO: The man with the secret camera walks into a vacant building and talks to his audience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I witnessed soldiers executing people by firing squad. They were accused of human trafficking offenses. Men, women, and children came to watch.
SESNO: This video was passed from person to person along a secret underground network, powerful evidence of public executions under the regime of Kim Jong Il. North Korea is the last Stalinist regime, a closed one-party state founded on a personality cult, a rogue regime known for repression of its people and a menacing nuclear arms program.
A nearly bankrupt nation where in the 1990s the U.S. government says more than 2 million men, women, and children starved to death during a famine. Kim Jong Il denied the famine even existed.
Kim Jong Il's absolute power depends on his people remaining oblivious to life outside the secret state, believing, as he says, that North Korea is paradise. But now his control is being challenged by his own people and word is getting out.
Dissidents are using technology to show the world images of the secret state that have never been seen before. They are also giving North Koreans their first views of what life is like on the outside.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: And our Anderson Cooper spoke with Sarah McDonald in London. The producer and director of that inside look at what Kim Jong-il doesn't want seen, the details of how his country works, or fails to.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARAH MCDONALD, PRODUCER & DIRECTOR: Some of them are motivated because their families actually starved to death in front of them, and they realized that they just had to go out and seek a way of ensuring that their lives were changing in the future. Others have actually had a sense of the outside by going into China and realizing that life on the outside is not what it appears, you know, in -- inside North Korea for most North Koreans, that there is wealth and a life out there that they can live without starvation and poverty.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to look at some of the video, first of all, this -- this public execution. These people, allegedly, had been smuggling -- smuggling people across the borders, I guess. Who were they allegedly smuggling?
MCDONALD: Do you know, I mean, they're -- they're called people smugglers, which is a very pejorative term, obviously, in -- in our West -- in the Western world.
But, actually, these are people who, probably more money, as a means of survival, or, really, maybe they're dissidents themselves, you know, for a political motivation, they're helping people escape.
COOPER: Any sense of how common these executions are?
MCDONALD: Yes. They're really common.
And, you know, we -- we're horrified, of course, in the West. And we go, oh, this is incredible, you know, executions. How awful. And everyone we met just laughed in our faces, and said, for God's sake. We have just grown up with this all our lives. It's -- you know, it is so commonplace. We are -- they were made to go through public executions all through their childhood.
You know, it's -- they can't understand why we find it so horrifying.
COOPER: Human Rights Watch estimates some 200,000 political prisoners inside North Korea -- the North Korean government denies that -- that concentration camps even exist.
And, yet, in these videos, we see detention facilities. We see prisoners carrying what I understand are -- are buckets of -- of human feces that -- that they have to use for fertilizer.
MCDONALD: It is -- you -- you just -- you can't imagine that they lock so many people up.
And we spoke to one man who was inside the -- the prison, Yurdok (ph), that we showed the footage of, which is just incredible. They denied it existed. And there is the footage. You know, and we -- we are very lucky to be able to see that.
What he described, we didn't put it in the film. It is so appalling, you just can't imagine. He said that 95 percent of people who go into that prison die in the prison. Their whole motivation is to kill these people, but they won't let them die easily. They -- they torture them to death over a very long period of time.
COOPER: That sign in the video above the -- the entrance, it says, "Give up your life for the sake of our dear leader, Kim Jong Il."
I mean, it -- and people are literally giving up their lives. You know, I read also this figure, 7 percent of North Koreans starving, according to the United Nations, 37 percent chronically malnourished, 40 percent of children suffering from stunted growth, 20 percent underweight.
And we see this video of -- of people in the marketplace, this little kid stealing, who then gets beaten. And -- and I understand, there are also, I mean, just bodies laying out on the street.
MCDONALD: These people are starving.
The World Food Program says that, you know, famine is coming again. And these people are trying to get out. And they just can't, you know, that the -- Kim Jong Il is cracking down with major force now, because he can see that people are trying to get away much more than in the past.
COOPER: That last picture that we were just showing of the woman lying, just -- I assume she's dead, lying in the street, and the people with the bicycles just passing by and pausing for a moment, and then kind of going on, I mean, to me, that is just, perhaps, the most chilling image I -- I -- I have seen in a long time. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Chilling images and a chilling documentary.
Well, straight ahead, we have a pretty bizarre story to tell you about. A man says that he's HIV positive and now all of a sudden, he says he's not. What is he's taking? What's he doing? What's the story? We're going to have it for you, coming up on next on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, an autopsy's being planned on the body of a professional wrestler Eduardo Guerrero. Guerrero's body was found yesterday in a hotel room in Minneapolis, where he was set to appear in a match sponsored by World Wrestling Entertainment. Wrestling was in Guerrero's blood. His father, Gory Guerrero, is a legend in Mexican wrestling. Eduardo Guerrero was 38 years old.
Well, we're checking out a story that's spurred a huge amount of online interests. Did a young British man really get rid of the virus that causes AIDS? According to the Web site for "The London Times," 25-year-old Andrew Stimpson is willing to undergo tests to figure out how his body apparently got rid of HIV. Stimpson tested HIV positive in August 2002, but a little more than a year later, another blood test came up negative. We're following up on this story. We'll bring that you -- we'll bring more of that story to you, of course, when we get it.
Well, Texas is full of wide open spaces. However, those spaces aren't always empty. There are varmints out there, and that's why some people carry guns. And sometimes, those varmints can be pretty darn big.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixty-six-year-old Susan Buxton carries a .38 caliber pistol to protect her puppies from coyotes when they are out in the yard.
SUSAN BUXTON, TEXAS RESIDENT: I carry it in my purse. And it's just easier to keep it on my nightstand, carry it in my purse. And it's just the gun of choice around the house.
SANCHEZ: Last Wednesday, her problem wasn't a coyote. It was a man who broke into her house. Susan Buxton grabbed her gun. Her granddaughter grabbed the phone and called 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone just broke into my house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they still there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get down.
BUXTON: And I said get down or I'll shoot.
SANCHEZ: Wednesday night was real frantic. Now, though, she can talk about it more calmly.
BUXTON: And I said if you run, I'm going to shoot you. I'm going to shoot you. He opened that door and I shot. And it went right through the door and through his leg.
And he was out here screaming. He said, you shot me. I said, I told you I was going to shoot you.
SANCHEZ: The intruder ran into the yard. Susan Buxton ran right after him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they coming or not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put the gun down.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: And that was our Rick Sanchez running after that story. More LIVE FROM, right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Meet Dragon Eye. This tiny, high-tech spy drone could become a valuable life-saver at home and in the battlefield. The battery-powered craft, equipped with cameras and other sensors, is designed to swoop in on emergencies and raids to prevent causalities. The brass at Honeywell, the maker of Dragon Eye, are meeting with government officials next week. The hope is that troops in Iraq could get the drone in a year or two, then it could be deployed for domestic use.
Now more on the tit-for-tat diplomatic tiff between Mexico and Venezuela. As you know if you've been watching CNN, those nations are mutually recalling their ambassadors over an unflattering comment from the Venezuelan president about his Mexican counterpart.
At issue is a free trade agreement, still very much in the talking stage, that would span the Western hemisphere. Mexican President Vicente Fox is very much in favor; Venezuela's Hugo Chavez is very much against it.
At the recent Summit of the Americas, Mr. Fox suggested that Mr. Chavez was putting leftist ideology ahead of his people's interests. Mr. Chavez, in turn, said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA (through translator): It makes one sad to see the sell-out of President Fox. Really, it makes one sad. How sad that the president of a people like the people of Mexico lets himself become the puppy dog of the empire. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Now, earlier today on LIVE FROM, I spoke with President Fox, who vowed to take the high road but who doesn't plan to take any lip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. VICENTE FOX, MEXICO: Other countries might accept his wording, and the way he attacks everybody, and he attacks institutions. We are not willing to do that in Mexico. We have dignity in this country. We have institutions. And that's the only reason to do what we're doing.
PHILLIPS: And Mr. President, could the next step be cutting off diplomatic relations with Venezuela completely? Would you consider that?
FOX: If we keep hearing what we've been hearing, yes, of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi is stirring controversy again. Once the favorite of the Bush administration, Chalabi is in the U.S. on a trip some see as an attempt to rebuild his reputation.
Critics, including some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, vilify Chalabi for allegedly feeding false pre-war intelligence on Saddam Hussein's weapons.
He is also accused of passing top secret U.S. information to Iran. Chalabi denies any wrong doing.
Now, in the wake of last week's terrorist bombings in Jordan he's accusing the kingdom of supporting terrorism in Iraq. He spoke with CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "Late Edition" yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AHMED CHALABI, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Jordan has an equivocal situation with regards to Iraq post-Saddam. They need to clean up their money laundering rings that have been instrumental in Saddam's efforts.
They should look carefully at the Volker Report, the Dulpher Report about the Oil-for-Food Program.
They continue to have money laundering rings. And a lot of this money seeps to the terrorist networks. I don't want to get into details of that. We are very sorry for what happened to Jordan.
But, also we are concerned about what happened in Iraq. And I wish the Jordanians would take more care to prevent their citizens from coming into Iraq and doing these suicide bombings and deaths in Iraq. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Let's talk with Wolf more about his interview with Ahmed Chalabi. Joins me now in "The Situation Room."
Wolf, he denies any wrongdoing. Yet, it was his home and his office that was raided, right, for allegedly passing classified information to Iran. He's also been--being looked at by the FBI.
So, how did he respond to those two situations?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Adamant, flat denial of any wrongdoing whatsoever on any of the problems that have been -- any of the grievances hurled against him, the accusations.
Yes, he is being still investigated by the FBI right now. It's been a 17-month investigation, Kyra. And it's still going on.
The FBI assistant director, John Miller, just put out a statement the other day saying they've interviewed a lot of people on the accusation that Ahmed Chalabi may have provided Iran with classified information about U.S. codes, code breaking equipment, that investigation continuing. A lot of people have been questioned.
And on the other issue, of whether he deliberately provided the U.S. government before the war with Iraq with misleading or wrong intelligence to convince the president, the vice president, defense secretary to go to war against Saddam Hussein.
He also flatly denies any wrongdoing on that front. So he is adamant, Kyra. He is remaining very firm that he didn't do anything wrong.
And clearly, what that clip you just showed from "Late Edition" yesterday, he remains very bitter, very angry at Jordan, even while expressing condolences for the hotel triple bombing the other day.
He makes it clear he doesn't like the government of King Abdullah because he's wanted in Jordan for fraud. Supposedly, accused of stealing some $50 million over the year. So there's no good blood, in you will, between Ahmed Chalabi and Jordan.
PHILLIPS: Part of the controversy, too, is that embezzlement, those charges of embezzlement from that Jordanian bank.
Wolf, any...
BLITZER: He denies that too. He says he was framed by Saddam Hussein on that one.
PHILLIPS: So, he's saying he's framed. He's denying everything.
And what's up with the FBI investigation? Will we hear from the FBI? Are we ever going to get any answers from the FBI about what's happening with that? BLITZER: So far, the FBI says that investigation is continuing. It's unclear whether he was ever questioned, Ahmed Chalabi, certainly not while he's here on this visit to the United States.
He does say he's willing to go before the Senate to testify about intelligence leading up to the war. He's not ready to testify before a committee like the Senate Intelligence Committee or the Foreign Relations Committee.
But he says he's ready to go before the whole Senate. Whether or not the whole Senate wants to question Ahmed Chalabi is another matter. But, he's a lightning rod.
Yet he did make it clear yesterday, Kyra, he wants to be the next prime minister of Iraq. He's running. And he's running for parliament in the mid-December elections, and he would like to get to the job of prime minister. Who knows, he just might.
PHILLIPS: Interesting. Well, of course, we'll follow it.
What's coming up in "The Situation Room?"
BLITZER: We are going to follow everything happening in Iraq, obviously.
We are also following some new poll numbers that are just coming in to CNN right now. President Bush's approval rating drops to a new personal low. We'll show you those numbers. That's coming up. Will the White House be able to bounce back by going on the offensive?
The president getting ready for another speech tonight, specifically on that point.
Also we're going to go inside the mind of a female suicide bomber. We'll try to find out what drives some women to commit that ultimate act of terror.
All of that coming up here in "The Situation Room," Kyra. Right at the top of the hour.
PHILLIPS: We look forward to it.
Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.
We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Looking at rundown here, America Online putting some classic TV shows online.
Ali Velshi live from New York, our own Mr. French to tell us more.
Hey, Ali. ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am just trying to remember which Mr. French you are talking about. Because there were two of them. And one of them, as I recall, was pretty rotund. He was the butler in a Family Affair, referred to as a gentleman's gentleman.
If any of this rings a bell, which it won't for you, Kyra, you're too young.
But, shows like a Family Affair, Wonder Woman, Welcome Back Kotter, Growing Pains, there are dozens of them, Kung Fu. They're all coming back because AOL has reached an agreement with Warner Brother's corporate sibling to make these shows available free on demand as downloads that you can stream on the web.
Now, they are not downloadable to a portable device like the iPod Video. They are to watch on your computer screen, but, you know, a lot of people, Kyra, use that now. They use their computer screens, connect them right to their TV sets, and you can watch TV based on what's on your computer.
So, that's coming in. You'll only be forced to watch a 15 second commercial. But, you know, that's the way things are going right now. You are able to see what you want when you want to see it.
Also, buy what you want when you want to buy it, apparently. Wal-Mart, the largest retailer in the country, Kyra, coming in with $2.4 billion in profit between August and October.
They are predicting a good holiday season. Struggling though to attract a wealthier customer than they would like.
That's the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange. Right now, we are looking at market that is closing at 11 points higher to 10,698.
Over on the Nasdaq we are looking at just about a point and a half lower to 2,201 at the New York Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq.
Right now, "The Situation Room" with Wolf.
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