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Iraqis Accused of Torturing Prisoners; Bob Woodward Testifies in CIA Leak Investigation; Study Questions Safety of Diet Supplements

Aired November 16, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: From CNN's world headquarters here in Atlanta, Georgia, I'm Kyra Phillips. These are the stories that we're working on for you right now, starting off with torture and secret jails in Iraq, but this time Iraqis are the ones being accused
Airline security loophole. You're screened; your bags are screened, but wait till you hear what's not being screened.

And diet pill dangers. A new study of supplements that could give you a bit of indigestion.

All that and more just ahead. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

Iraqis allegedly torturing and abusing Iraqis. The new reports confirmed by senior Iraqi officials have triggered demands for an international investigation.

Iraq's main Sunni party says that the latest allegations make clear majority Shiites in the U.S.-backed by government are trying to suppress minority Sunnis just ahead of next month's parliamentary elections. And the United Nations special investigator says an independent probe should be launched into allegations of torture in both Iraqi and U.S. detention centers.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is in Baghdad with more on this controversy.

And you may find some of these pictures in his report a bit disturbing. Just a warning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN was recently given these shocking images of brutalized Iraqi prisoners. The video came from the deputy governor of Diyala province just north of Baghdad. He got a tip about police torture and took a cameraman to record what he found.

Victims showed welts, apparently from beatings. The date on the tape indicated the video was shot back in August.

(on camera) And now in Baghdad an apparently similar case of torture has been discovered at a ministry of interior facility by the U.S. military. When out searching for a 15-year-old boy, they entered a building containing many detainees, some of whom, they said, required medical attention. According to an Iraqi police officer at the scene, many had suffered torture.

(voice-over) While the police and U.S. military won't say where the building is in Baghdad, Iraq's deputy minister of interior confirms the abuse of prisoners, saying he is shocked but says it's the worst torture he's seen.

HUSSEIN KAMAL, IRAQI INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): I saw signs of physical abuse by brutal beating. One or two detainees were paralyzed, and some had their skin peeled off various parts of their body.

ROBERTSON: U.S. troops have taken control of the premises, detaining several non-prisoners found at the facility. The U.S. is also providing medical care for some of the apparent torture victims.

The Iraqi government says many of the prisoners appear not to have been fed. The deputy interior minister blames a lack of resources for the abuses.

KAMAL (through translator): A major problem we face is that there are not enough places to contain these detainees after the preliminary investigation is through with them.

ROBERTSON: On Baghdad's streets, rumors are rife about renegade ministry of interior death squads, carrying out sectarian killings.

Interior ministry officials say they are aware those rumors are circulating but vigorously deny them. Still, interior ministry officials now say they want a full investigation into the torture cases they say they found in Baghdad.

Iraq's prime minister wants answers, too. He's formed an investigative committee.

IBRAHIM AL-JAAFARI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The committee will start today to look at this situation, investigate it and report back what happened and how we got to where we are today.

ROBERTSON: If the new mood of self-examination in the Iraqi government is sustained, the public may well learn more about the abuses, not only in Baghdad but also in Diyala province and dispel the swirling rumors and restore confidence in the security forces.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson now joining us live after we watched his piece.

Nic, one thing that caught my attention was the fact that there's talk about the interior ministry actually having death squads. What more can you tell us about that? And that, of course, leads to many questions about how credible this government is.

ROBERTSON: Well, the ministry of interior vigorously denies that. The accusations are, and we heard them again today, coming from some Sunni politicians, because they believe the Shia-dominated interior ministry has death squads from the Batter Brigade (ph). That is a militia that's tied to one of the principal Shia parties in power here in Iraq. And the accusation is that that Batter Brigade (ph) never folded up and went to where it was supposed to and is now part of the ministry and now forming death squads.

PHILLIPS: Now the deputy interior minister saying that, look, this is happening because of a lack of resources. Do you think that's just a lame excuse or is that true?

ROBERTSON: Certainly, there is a lack of funds for pretty much any project here in Iraq, whether it's electricity, water. And certainly the interior ministry from what we've seen hasn't been building any new prison facilities and they are arresting a lot of people. There are a huge number of crimes even out with the insurgency.

So it probably seems that it's a reasonable thing to say. They lack funds, lack the facilities, but that doesn't necessarily, and in many people's eyes here any way whatsoever, excuse the levels of apparent torture that have been uncovered.

PHILLIPS: Of course, we'll continue to follow up on this apparent torture and also the investigations that are existing. Meanwhile, Operation Steel Curtain, the Marines operation. Nic, tell us the latest on that.

ROBERTSON: Kyra, we've just had confirmation that five Marines killed today in a firefight in Operation Steel Curtain very close to the Syrian border. It's the 11th day of the operation. They've been sweeping through a number of towns, villages close to the border.

Apparently, the insurgents were hiding in a house as the Marines went in and this is something they've become very familiar with in that area, insurgents holed up in a house, willing to fight to the death. The Marines went in. There was an explosion then the firefight. Five killed. The deadliest incident so far in Operation Steel Curtain, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson live from Baghdad. Thanks, Nic.

Well, the issue of torture, of course, is highly sensitive in Iraq, and Iraqis say that torture was commonplace under the regime of Saddam Hussein. And they remain outraged over allegations of U.S. troops torturing Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison.

Now all this brings us to the question, what do Americans think about torture? In the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 74 percent of those questioned said they believe the U.S. has tortured prisoners. Twenty percent said that they don't think it has happened, and asked if the U.S. should torture suspected terrorists, 38 percent said yes, 56 percent said no.

And that's not the end of the story. Coming up in the next hour of LIVE FROM, an outrageous lie or the terrible truth? Two Iraqis claim that U.S. troops threw them to the lions during a terrifying interrogation. CNN's Tom Foreman investigates. We'll bring that to you later.

Now "The Washington Post's" Bob Woodward has joined the ranks of players caught up in the CIA leak investigation. Today's "Post" actually reports that the man who made his name during Watergate has given sworn testimony about meetings that he had with top administration officials, including Lewis Libby, the now indicted former aid to Vice President Dick Cheney.

CNN's Kelli Arena standing by with us for more on Woodward's role.

Pretty interesting, Kelli. And you wonder if this revelation will affect the case against Scooter Libby.

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it depends on who you talk to, Kyra. There are some lawyers who say that this at least raises reasonable doubt, and that's because Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, came out and said that Lewis Libby was the first person who had spoken to reporters about Valerie Plame. And if Woodward's timetable is correct, then he was not the first official to speak to the press about Valerie Plame.

On the other hand, don't forget, you know, Libby was not indicted for releasing classified information. He was indicted for obstruction of justice and perjury, so there are some other lawyers who say this is apples and oranges; his case still stands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is deep mystery here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Kelli, I apologize. We had a little bit of a technical issue.

ARENA: It was like the voice of God.

PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. I'm thinking, "Where's that coming from? Is somebody else talking to me? I thought Kyra and I were having a conversation."

All right. So talking about how it can, of course, affect the case against Scooter Libby. Other questions about could this point the finger at higher-ups in the Bush administration?

ARENA: Well, you know, that is the key question. It's always been the question, and then the mouths are wagging today, Kyra. But we simply do not know. Woodward did not reveal who his source was, at least publicly.

We still don't know who Bob Novak's other source was, and Bob Novak being the first, you know, reporter that put this in print. So lots of questions that are still unanswered, but the source was described as a senior administration official. That could mean anything but, of course, everyone is looking straight at the White House.

PHILLIPS: Well, we just got some sound in, actually, from an interview that Larry King did with Bob Woodward.

ARENA: Oh, yes, I remember that.

PHILLIPS: Hold on for a second. Let me go to this interesting note about Bob Woodward's role in the CIA leak investigation. Woodward discussed the case on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" last month, and he downplayed the idea, Kelli, that a crime occurred. And he gave no indication that he had any inside knowledge of the case.

ARENA: Right, that he knew anything.

PHILLIPS: Exactly. Let's listen to this. OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB WOODWARD, "WASHINGTON POST": ... here. It only grows with time, and people are speculating. And there are -- there's so little that people really know.

Now, there are a couple of things that I think are true. First of all, this began, not as somebody launching a smear campaign, that it actually -- when the story comes out, I'm quite confident we're going to find out that it started kind of as gossip, as chatter, and that somebody learned that Joe Wilson's wife had worked at the CIA and helped him get this job going to Niger to see if there was an Iraq- Niger uranium deal.

And there's a lot of innocent actions in all of this. But what has happened, this prosecutor, I mean, I used to call Mike Isikoff, when he worked at "The Washington Post," the junkyard dog. Well, this is a junkyard dog prosecutor, and he goes everywhere and asks every question and turns over rocks and rocks under rocks and so forth, and it doesn't leak.

And I think it's quite possible that, though probably unlikely, that he will say, "You know, there was no malice or criminal intent at the start of this."

Some people kind of had convenient memories before the grand jury. Technically they might be able to be charged with perjury, but I don't see an underlying crime here. And the absence of the underlying crime may cause somebody who's a really thoughtful prosecutor to say, "You know, maybe this is not one to go to the court with."

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": You're saying this is a maybe?

WOODWARD: A maybe. Only a maybe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: All right. So listening to that, also on the same program, Woodward described the potential damage caused by the publication of Plame's identity as quite minimal. So, Kelli, what do you make of this? He was pretty much downplaying one of the biggest stories that we've been talking about in the past couple months.

ARENA: Well, one thing he also said, which wasn't in that clip, was he didn't have a bombshell for Larry. He didn't even have what he said a firecracker. Well, a lot of people today thought this was pretty much of a bombshell.

And it's interesting that he -- he did not disclose this on his own. It was his source, who had approached the special prosecutor first and said, "Hey, want to let you know about this conversation." Of course, we don't know what the motivation for that was. And then Fitzgerald, of course, asked for Woodward's cooperation.

Lots of intrigue here. Does this make a difference at the end of the day? Who knows, you know?

PHILLIPS: It's sort of like another Deep Throat. You wonder, OK, will Woodward now have to identify this source?

ARENA: Well, he apparently got permission to talk about what they said. I fully believe that Fitzgerald knows who that source is. We just don't know who the source was.

So -- but there's a lot of speculation, you know, about Bob Novak's sources, that the prosecutor already knows who those people are, as well. You know, there's -- what this means is that Fitzgerald's investigation is not over. That's what it means. And so it's going to be going on for a long time.

PHILLIPS: I don't think we expected it to end any time soon, did we?

ARENA: Well, I think we did.

PHILLIPS: Really?

ARENA: Fitzgerald got up there and said, you know, that he was basically over. We knew that Karl Rove was still, you know, under investigation, but that even seemed to be sort of winding down.

You know, in any one of these, once you get a new lead and a new lead leads to another and another and another. And the way this town works, Kyra, you know that everybody talks to everybody.

PHILLIPS: Oh, yes.

ARENA: So he's going to have a lot more work ahead of him. Whether that ends up in indictments or not, I don't know. Whether the people watching this really can keep track and care, you know, I think Washington cares a whole lot, because obviously if these leads back to even more administration officials that's something people care about.

PHILLIPS: Kelli Arena, great stuff today. Thanks so much.

ARENA: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, dying to get thin. A shocking new study says that you may just get your wish if you rely on some of those popular diet supplements. The skinny on diet pills coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, Penelope Cruz might want to hold on a little tighter to her man, Matthew McConaughey, now that he's been named "People" magazine's sexiest man alive. Got to read "People" magazine, right, Elizabeth?

McConaughey, one of Hollywood's hottest leading men, gets top honors in the magazine's 2005 issue. Patrick Dempsey, you know what, that's my first choice. He's second followed by Terrence Howard. No. 4 on the list, Viggo Mortensen, fifth Vince Vaughn and by the way, CNN anchor Anderson Cooper, 13th sexiest man alive.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He should have been No. 1.

PHILLIPS: I know. What's up with that?

COHEN: I don't know. Patrick Dempsey.

All right. Does the prospect of extra holiday poundage have you mulling a trip to the drug store for a bottle of diet pills? You might want to check that impulse until you hear the results of a comprehensive new study on diet supplements.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen here to talk about the details. Some of them are pretty shocking.

COHEN: They are shocking, because people think when they go shopping for these diet supplements that what they read on the label is correct. They assume the Food and Drug Administration or some other government agency has actually looked at them and approved them.

Well, guess hat? The diet supplement industry is largely unregulated. So a company called ConsumerLab.com took some of them, including the ones you see here, to a lab to see if they had the ingredients that they claim they have in the ingredients and in the right amounts. And what they found is that many of them, in fact, do not.

So let's take a look here at the one we have up now, Zantrex-3, the blue bottle. What they found is that Zantrex-3 had 1,200 milligrams of caffeine per day, which is much more than what it claimed in the label. And because that's such a huge amount, that's many, many cups of coffee per day, there's a potential for cardiovascular problems.

And now let's take a look at the second one right here which is Trimspa. What they found is that this one had 42 percent more chromium than the label states and that too much chromium can be toxic to the liver.

And now let's take a look at this third one here called Ripped Fuel. It has synephrine and caffeine, both. That's two stimulants in one product. And that caffeine is equivalent to drinking 11 cans of cola, and it can cause arrhythmias and other heart problems and also increase blood pressure.

Well, we asked for responses, of course, from these three companies, and here's what they had to say about this ConsumerLab.com study.

The makers of Zantrex said that "each serving of Zantrex-3 has approximately the same caffeine content as a Starbucks Grande." Now what they don't say is that you're taking several servings per day. So that's like several, three or so Starbucks Grandes in a day.

And then also, the makers of Trimspa, they say they deny the allegations "that Trimspa X32 contains 42 percent more chromium than claimed on the label. Batch testing records conclusively demonstrate that the ConsumerLab.com report is categorically false."

And then the third one from Twinlab. They say, "Twinlab sponsored a clinical study. And this study confirmed that the weight loss effects of bitter orange are" -- that's another name for the synephrine that we talked about before -- "are actually enhanced when combined with other ingredients present in Ripped Fuel, caffeine and St. John's Wort."

So it's interesting. Their response was to say that it works. Whereas the concerns are that it may not be safe because they're combining so many different things at one time, especially when you get two different stimulants at one time. That's definitely a red flag to think about.

PHILLIPS: You raise a lot of questions. I guess, is it something -- is anybody endorsing these diet pills? Is anybody saying there is one out there that is 100 percent safe and will work?

COHEN: I have never heard of a credible source, whether from a government or a university, that says, "You know what? We went to the store and decided that this is the best one." Unfortunately that kind of guidance is not out there.

Now, when you go to the web sites for these products, and other products they'll say there are studies that show that they work. Well, guess what? The company did the study, and the FDA does not have to put their stamp of approval saying that the study was done correctly and that the findings really are true. So you're kind of out there on your own when you go shopping for these products.

PHILLIPS: All right. And there's a lot of people that are going to say, "I know. People tell me get a trainer, exercise, eat right." It's always what we hear, right? But there are still going to be those people that want to go for a diet pill.

So can you give us any advice or anybody advice that when they do go shopping, are there certainly definitely ingredients that should be a red flag? And, you know, how do they sort of shop for one if they're going to do it anyway?

COHEN: Well, you should look for things that are stimulants. That's the first thing. Look for something like caffeine if that's on the label. Think about how much is in there. And that's going to be in addition to whatever stimulants you're taking on your own in coffee.

Ask yourself if a claim on the label sounds too good to be true. Because if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Think twice about chasing the latest headline. So what if your sister saw something on TV that sounded great? It doesn't mean anything about the safety of that product.

Contact the manufacturer for product specifics. This is really important. I went to a web site for one of these products, looking for a list of what was in it and how much. Could not find it. There was so much stuff on that web site, but it never said what was actually in it. Huge red flag.

And of course, talk to a doctor before taking any kind of supplements.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much.

Straight ahead, we're going to be talking about gaps in airline security. One lawmaker says that you're playing roulette every time you get on a plane. But you and your luggage are screened, so what's the problem? We're going to tell you why congressional investigators are concerned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, the man nominated to succeed Alan Greenspan is one step closer to the fed chief title. Kathleen Hays has more on that story and a check of the markets live from the New York Stock Exchange.

Hi, Kathleen.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right. Kathleen Hays, thank you so much. See you again, of course, within the next three hours.

Another story that we're talking about is on the front page of all the newspapers today but you know what? You broke the story just a couple months ago, Drew Griffin.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A new government report out today is confirming what a CNN investigation exposed months ago. Hardly any cargo going into the belly of passenger planes is being screened, not even for a bomb. Don't believe it? Wait till you see it. I'm Drew Griffin. A CNN investigation is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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