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Escaped Killer Nabbed; Executive Privilege; Fidel Castro Likely Suffering From Parkinson's Disease

Aired November 17, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, we're going to talk about speaking out and shooting down. If you've been watching CNN, you know a senior member of Congress has done something no other lawmaker has done since U.S. troops invaded Iraq: insist they come home now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis. I believe before the Iraqi elections scheduled for mid-December, the Iraqi people, the emerging government must be put on notice, the United States will immediately redeploy. Immediately redeploy.

No schedule which can be changed, nothing that is controlled but Iraqis. This is an immediate redeployment of our American forces because they have become the target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Murtha is a Democrat, but a Democrat with 30 years in the House of Representatives and 37 years in the Marine Corps. Within the past hour, his Republican colleagues fired back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN (R), FLORIDA: We cannot abandon the Iraqi people now. They need us now more than ever. To pull out now, to surrender now is to give back to the terrorists a country that they don't deserve.

The Iraqi people deserve to be free, free of tyranny, free of these terrorist insurgents. And that's what our military is doing, ridding the Iraqi people of these insurgents and bringing democracy, freedom, hope, the rule of law and true governance to their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Live now to Iowa, that news that we've been telling you about. Let's listen in about that convicted killer that escaped from a maximum security prison, still on the loose.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... about 20 miles from this location. We have yet to determine exactly when that vehicle was stolen. At large, of course, still remains Robert Legendre. To our knowledge, we still have not located -- well, we're not sure what vehicle he is driving because we have not located the gold 1995 Pontiac Bonneville that's been so widely publicized.

I'm wanting to take any questions.

QUESTION: Is there any indication you have from the interactions with Moon as to where Legendre might be?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we do not have an idea where Legendre might be at this time.

QUESTION: What has he said about that, or what can you share?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, right now it would all still be speculative. One could assume that they separated shortly after the escape because, now we have Moon located in a different vehicle. We still have not located the vehicle that we know was stolen from Fort Madison within an hour from the escape. That doesn't mean that they weren't together and dumped that vehicle. It just hasn't been located.

So it's really speculative at this point. Did they split up immediately after leaving, or were they together for a time?

QUESTION: Or are you not deep enough in the interview process such that you know as to what Moon might be able to tell you as to where the other guy is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, certainly, I am aware some of the things Moon might be willing to tell us; however, we would be circumspect of that information. So I don't want to rule anything out at this time and say that they separated immediately or they were together for a certain period of time. What I do know is Legendre is still at large and we still have not located that other vehicle.

QUESTION: Going back to the statement, is there any word on why these two men were in a prison yard by themselves when no one else was there, how they got into the yard, and why they were, you know, unsupervised?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Well, as I said a number of times, our responsibility in law enforcement, my responsibility is to apprehend these individuals and return them to penitentiary at Fort Madison. What happened inside the walls as to the exact escape I know is under review by the Department of Corrections.

QUESTION: Upon his return, I'm going to guess that he's going to be questioned pretty thoroughly by you folks?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would hope so.

QUESTION: In regard -- are there particular areas that you need information from him, I mean, other than the obvious, like where Mr. Legendre might be? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, certainly we'll be interested if he ends up talking to us, you know, just about all the details of the escape and anything he can tell us about where Legendre may go. You know, that certainly is obvious. We would hope he would be returned some time late tonight or early tomorrow morning at the state penitentiary here in Fort Madison.

QUESTION: So he would be back behind bars?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. He is currently being held in the Randolph County Sheriff's Department jail in Illinois, but he should be returned to Iowa either late tonight or first thing tomorrow morning.

PHILLIPS: Live news conference there out of Iowa. We were following, of course, that manhunt for convicted killers that had broken out of an Iowa prison.

Martin Moon, we can tell you, is back in the hands of authorities; however, this man, Robert Legendre, that broke out of the Iowa State Penitentiary Monday by scaling a 30-foot wall with Martin Moon, he is still on the loose. Police still looking for this man. They've had warnings even up over the highway saying, if you see him, call 911, believed possibly to be armed and dangerous.

Once again, Robert Legendre, convicted killer who escaped from an Iowa prison, on the loose. Police need your help, keep your eyes out for him.

Well, lately the White House and its allies have switched from defense to offense on the issue of prewar intelligence. One of their arguments is that whether other nations supported the war or not. They agreed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Here's more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VICTORIA CLARKE, FMR. PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: The French, the Russians, the Italians, the Germans, the United States, the United Nations, everybody thought Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, had the intent to use them.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Every intelligence agency in the world, including the Russian, including the French, including the Israeli, all had reached the same conclusion, and that was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

STEPHEN HADLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It was the same intelligence that other world leaders had that led them to conclude that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: These assessments were echoed by foreign intelligence agencies from countries that included Great Britain, France, Germany and Russia.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Several voices with the same message. But did foreign intelligence assessments really agree?

CNN's intelligent sources say it was the view of French and Russian intelligence that Iraq probably did have weapons of mass destruction programs. But the leaders of Russia, Germany and France expressed skepticism over the U.S. intelligence assessment. Russian President Vladimir Putin made specific comments about it on October 11, 2002, just about five months before the war began.

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): Russia does not have any trustworthy data that supports the existence of nuclear weapons or any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We have not received any such information from our partners yet.

WHITFIELD: German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder spoke his mind to the German parliament about a month before the war began.

GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Iraq definitely does not have nuclear weapons, nor any long-range carrier systems which could take what it does not have to their targets. There are indications that Iraq might be capable of producing other weapons of mass destruction. This is the reason why the inspectors are there now and must be able to continue their work.

WHITFIELD: After then, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell presented U.S. intelligence findings at the United Nations in February of 2003. Germany's foreign minister said the evidence coincided with German intelligence in part, but a week later he challenged Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at a conference in Munich.

JOSCHKA FISCHER, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Excuse me. I'm not convinced. This is my problem. And I cannot go to the public and say, well, let's go to war because there are reasons and so on and I don't believe in that.

WHITFIELD: French President Jacques Chirac expressed his doubts just days before the war in an interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour for "60 Minutes."

When asked if he believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, Mr. Chirac said, "I don't know. I have no evidence to support that. It seems that there are no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons program. That is something that the inspectors seem to be sure of. As for weapons of mass destruction, bacteriological, biological, chemical, we don't know."

Three days after that interview, air strikes were launched against Iraq and the war began.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Oil company leaders have come and gone from Capitol Hill, but their joint appearance at a Senate hearing last week remains a hot topic. Democrats are fuming over the fact that the execs were not sworn in before answering questions. Was it a case of special treatment?

Here's Congressional Correspondent Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oil executives under fire about gas prices were called to testify on Capitol Hill last week. They strolled in, sat down and started talking.

But it was a little different story in April of 1994. Back then, when tobacco executives, also under fire, were called to the Hill, they first had to raise their hands and swear to tell the truth, a lasting picture that the oil companies avoided.

However you cut it, standing with your hand in the air like that doesn't look good. But did testifying without the oath also protect the oil executives from criminal charges if they didn't tell the truth? Democrats who raised the issue got shot down by committee co- chair Ted Stevens of oil-rich Alaska.

SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D), WASHINGTON: Mr. Chairman, I would like the committee to vote on whether we swear in...

SEN. TED STEVENS (R), ALASKA: There will be no vote. That's not in order at all.

JOHNS: Stevens's co-chair, Pete Domenici, noted that he understood the political impact of a swearing-in picture, and that he wanted to focus instead on substance. That got Democrats mad, but it was the executives' answers to this question that brought out the knives.

SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: Did your company or any representatives in your companies participate in Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did not, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be honest...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I wasn't here then.

JOHNS: The question matters because critics of George Bush and Dick Cheney have been asking for years whether an administration run by two former oil men gave the industry a secret audience to talk through their suggestions on national energy policy.

The oil companies' denials of a secret meeting were apparently contradicted by a "Washington Post" story, a story that detailed an alleged White House document showing officials of Exxon, Mobil, Conoco, Shell Oil and BP met in the White House with Cheney aides in 2001.

Senate Democrats rushed to the cameras to demand an investigation and an explanation over why the oil company executives weren't required to take the oath.

(on camera): Why do you think it was that they were not sworn in? Was it to protect them from possible criminal exposure?

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, you're asking the wrong people. We wanted to swear them in. It was Ted Stevens and Pete Domenici who were very verbal.

JOHNS (voice-over): We found Senator Pete Domenici, co-chair of the panel, on the Capitol subway.

SEN. PETE DOMENICI (R), NEW MEXICO: If, in fact they are found to have lied, the results are the same, whether you're sworn in or not. There's a -- there's a statute that applies that says, if you don't tell the truth before a committee of Congress -- that's what we had there -- then that is the same as lying under oath.

JOHNS: The same point an angry Ted Stevens made on the Senate floor.

STEVENS: To suggest that I did not administer an oath to these witnesses to help them lie to members of Congress is false, inexcusable.

JOHNS: According to the experts we spoke to, there's no difference between the penalty for lying under oath and misleading Congress. Both can get you five years in jail, assuming, of course, the executives were actually lying. All four companies in question stood by the denials of their CEOs.

(on camera): Excuse me, Senator, last question. Do you think they lied?

DOMENICI: Oh...

JOHNS: Do you think any of these executives actually lied?

DOMENICI: Look, that's not to be talked about at this point. You've got -- you've got to take their testimony. If, in fact, it's -- there is something that is indicative that they have not told the truth, then you proceed in a normal manner. You can't just outright pass conclusions on something like that.

JOHNS: Thank you, Senator.

(voice over): Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Thank you, Joe Johns, for chasing the story.

Well, straight ahead, one Watergate wonder boy finds himself uncomfortably close to the CIA leak story. A closer look at Bob Woodward's history of anonymous sources.

LIVE FROM's got the news you want all afternoon. So stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Now to Cuba's Fidel Castro. His trademark beard is graying. After all, he's almost 80. And more than four decades after seizing power, well, Castro is still in charge of Cuba, but for how long?

There are new indications that he's ailing. And as we hear from CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor, he lays out the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A new CIA assessment made in September says Fidel Castro is likely suffering from Parkinson's Disease. And that his health is deteriorating, several U.S. officials say.

BRIAN LATELL, AUTHOR, "AFTER FIDEL": He's falling, he's stumbling, he's broken bones. He's mumbling, he's become incoherent on a number of occasions that have been videoed or televised.

ENSOR: There is public evidence to support the assessment. Medicine for Parkinson's can make people faint, as Castro did in 2001. The disease can make the gait go stiff, causing falls.

And when Castro gave up his trademark combat boots for sneakers in 2,000, that raised eyebrows. The 79-year-old Cuban leader's heir apparent is his 74-year-old brother Raul, whose health is also in some question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He drinks a lot. It's pretty wide believed, I think -- I think he's an alcoholic, unreformed.

ENSOR: But Castro has been counted out too early many times before. He has recently found opportunities to push his socialist views through friendship with Venezuela's leader Hugo Chavez.

In a recent TV appearance with an Argentine soccer star, he looked reasonably well.

(on camera): U.S. intelligence officials say when Fidel and Raul Castro do go, Cuban communism may not long survive. They are hoping when it ends it ends without bloodshed, though an official said that is by no means certain.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, it might be hard to imagine a Cuba without Castro. Let's talk to someone who has spoken to Cuba's leader a number of times.

We've got our own Lucia Newman on the phone from Havana. Lucia, would the Cuban government ever admit to Castro being sick if indeed that was the case?

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Kyra.

Well, listen, I would tell you that you shouldn't expect any confirmation the CIA diagnosis from this end. In fact, last night, reacting to the report, Castro's top aide, Ricardo Lacon (ph), said that the president was in the peak of health. And Castro himself has repeatedly brushed off the rumors of Parkinson's and other diseases that have been circulating for almost a decade, Kyra.

So, as for his real condition, it's a state secret.

PHILLIPS: So you're saying that not even Fidel Castro would admit to being sick, if, indeed, he were?

NEWMAN: I'm sure he wouldn't, Kyra. I mean, he's going out of his way to say he's feeling great.

He told Diego Armando Maradona, that Argentine soccer star you just saw him with, that his blood pressure was low and that he was fit as a fiddle. Now, of course, he is slower and stiffer and mumbles and stumbles, all those things. They are consistent with Parkinson's, but they're also consistent with a number of other ailments, including just plain old age, Kyra.

So, this isn't a man who takes it easy. He micromanages everything in his country. I once asked him, in fact, if he was tired during a particularly busy period, and he said he was rested because he'd slept for a whole three hours, more than usual, he said.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk a little bit more about his lifestyle. And does he look run down? What's a daily routine for him, Lucia?

NEWMAN: Well, Kyra, everybody speculates about his health. When he took that dramatic fall last year, when he looks exhausted and looks pale, as he often does, sometimes he disappears from public view, but then he reappears looking fit as a fiddle and full of energy. You can say a lot of things about Fidel Castro, Kyra, but I think you can't deny that he's combative, he's a fighter. He's defied the United States and Europe, and I think he's also trying to defy his age and perhaps some of his ailments, too -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, what's the word around Cuba? What are Cubans saying? Do they talk about his health?

NEWMAN: They talk about it all the time, you know, when he looks -- when he's not looking as well as he does at other times. People are nervous. People -- some people are dying for him to die, but others are frightened about what will happen here once he does, whether there will be violence, whether there won't.

His brother is only five years younger, as David Ensor just pointed out, and he is supposed to take over. But that is only if he is still alive when President Castro himself dies, because his health is a state secret. So people think that things will chance once Fidel Castro dies, but they are very nervous about how it will happen and whether it will be peaceful or not -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Lucia Newman. Thanks for talking with us today.

Well, we're also talking about "Washington Post" writer Bob Woodward. He's accustomed to the national, spotlight but he's not used to the glare that he's facing right now over his surprise disclosure in the CIA leak scandal.

Woodward has revealed that he learned about the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame more from than two years ago from a high-level Bush administration official. And those of you who follow the case know that Plame is the wife of a Bush administration critic of prewar Iraqi intelligence.

A lawyer for the only person indicted in the leak case, former White House aide Lewis Libby, called Woodward's revelation a bombshell. Well, Woodward testified to the special prosecutor investigating that leak Monday. What he said suggests that another White House official told him about Plame before Libby told another reporter. Legal experts say that this new twist at the very least casts a shadow of doubt on the case against Libby.

As for who told Woodward, well, that remains a mystery. He's -- imagine this, he's refusing to reveal his source.

Well, Bob Woodward made his career out of convincing powerful people to talk, but his ability to obtain otherwise confidential information has earned Woodward the share of critics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice over): He achieved fame on uncovering Watergate with colleague Carl Bernstein, with help from a confidential informant named Deep Throat. They won a Pulitzer Prize and contributed to the downfall of a president.

But with that fame has come controversy.

His 1987 book on the CIA included revelations about the Iran- Contra affair based on a deathbed interview with the agency's former director, William Casey. Later, he took heat for his insider's account of the Clinton administration. The agenda included recreated conversations with little sourcing or footnotes.

His methods have not hurt book sales, however. He's written more than a half-dozen bestsellers.

Now he says he learned about the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame while interviewing an administration official for two of his books. One came out last year. The other is due in 2006.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. Whether it's improved corporate earnings or simply the holiday spirit, the office party is making a comeback.

I'll have details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, a new study says that Hurricane Katrina likely wiped out 11 years of employment growth in the New Orleans area. Susan Lisovicz joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange with more on that.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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