Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Veterans Discuss John Murtha's Statement; War Of Words On Iraq; Delta Pilots Won't Strike

Aired November 18, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: You remember Robert Blake, that actor we used to watch in "Baretta" and the whole issue surrounding the death of his wife. Now, we have more news about his civil trial.

Fredricka Whitfield in the news room with more -- Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello to you, Kyra.

Well, we know that in the criminal case where Robert Blake was up for murdering his wife, Bonny Lee Bakley, he was acquitted of those murder charges. Well, unsatisfied, her four children filed a civil suit but they even rejected a $250 million settlement -- $250,000, rather settlement offer.

They proceeded with the case and now we are told in about an hour and a half, 4:00 Eastern time, a verdict will be revealed in the civil suit against actor Robert Blake. Of course, when we get that out of Burbank, California, we'll be able bring that to you here on CNN -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Fred, thank you so much.

Well, until this week the leave Iraq now camp included anti-war activists, outright pacifists, and few, if any, members of Congress. But yesterday's pronouncement by Democratic Congressman and Retired Marine Colonel John Murtha changed everything, or did it? Murtha has been rebuffed, rebutted and rebuked though much more so by other lawmakers and government officials than by other veterans.

Joining me with their take on the war and the end game, our U.S. Army reservist and Iraq war veteran, Rob Timmins; Buddy Bucha, a Medal of Honor recipient for his service in Vietnam; and Steve Robertson, a Gulf War vet whose son is serving in Iraq as we speak. Gentlemen, it's great to have all three of you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: I want to start first with sound from John Murtha and get each one of you to respond and just see how you're feeling about what he's had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It's time to bring them home. They've done everything they can do. The military has done everything they can do. This war has been so mishandled from the very start. Not only was the intelligence bad, the way they disbanded the troops -- there's all kinds of mistakes have been made. They don't deserve to continue to suffer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Buddy, you're a Medal of Honor recipient, you know war, you know Murtha. What do you think about what he is saying?

PAUL "BUDDY" BUCHA, VIETNAM WAR VETERAN: Well, first of all, I think it's important to say that nobody -- nobody -- takes a headstart to Jack Murtha and his support of the troops, their families and veterans, that they all will become. He stands alone. He may have an equal, but he has no one senior to him on that.

I think Jack's comments are born out of a genesis of frustration that he cannot get a clear, finite, objective to be stated by the political leaders of this land as to what we're doing in Iraq so that they can put together the right force to accomplish those goals.

And at a certain point in time, his frustration boiled over and he's saying, if you're going to just change your mind next year, then it's time to bring them home now.

PHILLIPS: Now, Rob, you're a bit younger than Buddy. You might have a different impression about what Murtha is trying to say. What do you think about his words and what's your take?

ROB TIMMINS, IRAQ WAR VETERAN: I think, I agree with him wholeheartedly. I believe that no one should accuse him of not being loyal to his country. I think he's doing the troops a good service by questioning, bringing up the topic of questioning when is this mission going to be over? Is there a clear mission? I mean, is there going to be an exit strategy? I agree with him that there should be a withdrawal, but it should be a phased withdrawal, I believe.

PHILLIPS: Go ahead.

TIMMINS: I think that -- I don't think we should run out of there, but I think that we do need a timetable for withdrawal.

PHILLIPS: Now, Steve, you're also a vet. Your son is serving in Iraq right now. What do you think?

STEVE ROBERTSON, GULF WAR VETERAN: Well, that's the great thing about being in a great democracy like the United States and Iraq where both sides have a chance to voice their views and opinions, but right now we have a commander in chief, we have soldiers and sailors, airmen, Marine and Coast Guard putting their lives on the line for freedom and democracy.

I think that the troops on the ground know what their mission is, I think that they believe that it is not complete. I don't think they're ready to turn around and walk out. I think there's been a great price paid for where we are to this point. The American Legion is fully supporting the war on terrorism. We, since 9/11, have been committed to supporting the troops, supporting the president and supporting the American people in taking care of business.

PHILLIPS: Steve, has your son ever said to you, you know, dad, I'm a soldier, I'm staying in this fight because that's what I am committed to do. But, I have got to tell you, we need to get out of here.

ROBERTSON: My son went over on his own free will to fulfill his commitment to his country. In fact, we kind of joked -- he said, if I would have done had job right the first time, he wouldn't have had to go over. When I was in the Persian Gulf not a soldier got on the plane that didn't know we would be back.

Saddam Hussein had to be taken down; he was a mad man. I think that Mr. Murtha identified a lot of achievements that have been made, but the job had not been completed yet and we need to stay the course until we have ended the war on terrorism and secured Iraq as a free country.

PHILLIPS: Well, what stimulated a lot of conversation is, here you have Murtha, a veteran, speaking out, and it sort of has stimulated a lot of e-mails. I've contacted a lot of people I know, active and retired, in the military, and I got this one e-mail from an active military soldier in special operations.

And he said, "Murtha has always quietly carried a big, big stick in D.C. regarding defense issues and worked very closely with Cheney. He is fed up with all these draft-dodging, deferment-seeking cowards now leaving a generation of our best and brightest to be chewed up in battle for nothing more than an unwillingness to admit they were wrong. There's a special place in hell for these guys."

Buddy, what do you think about what he had to say and do you think there are a lot of active military behind closed doors saying, oh, man, we are in a mess?

BUCHA: I think the most important thing for people to remember and it's wrong for, as I call the idiots of the airwaves that constantly are confusing political debate with support for the troops. There is a special bond among those who have seen combat.

While in combat there is even a love that's there and under no circumstances would they ever turn their back on their buddies, their friends that are in the Humvee next to them or in the foxhole next to them. So, to try to quote those two as a part of a political debate is a grievous, grievous error. However ...

PHILLIPS: But, Buddy, I think right now, especially with 2,000 plus men and women dying in this war, I think there is a lot of support for these men and women and support of these troops, you know, as they fight their mission and they're trying to complete their mission. But I guess what I'm asking you is, looking at the situation now behind closed doors when we start talking about pre-war intelligence and soldiers dying and the insurgency, such a huge problem, you know, is there this sentiment? Is there -- are there more people besides just John Murtha who is speaking out publicly that are saying, we have got to figure something out, we're in a mess?

BUCHA: I think -- let me make it very clear. There is a tremendous sentiment saying, what is it that I must achieve in order to come home? This nonsense about exit strategy. Exit strategy is you walk, you ride, you fly, or you sail. It's what do you have to achieve in order to exit. That's what the military is entitled to receive from its political leaders.

It's what the nation is entitled to have and it's what the families of the soldiers are entitled to have, a clear statement, what it is that must be achieved and then they will achieve it. If you cannot do that, then Jack Murtha is right.

Let's stop wasting time as you did in Vietnam. Let's come up with a clear mission. You don't win or lose a war. That's nonsense. You succeed or fail. Medals that are received are not prizes.

These kids are battling their hearts out to achieve a goal that is not yet been clearly articulated. The soldiers I know are saying, "What is it you want me to do to get out of here? Make it clear, then get out of my way and I'll get it done. I'll walk into the gates of hell for this nation. Just tell me what I've got to do to leave those gates."

PHILLIPS: Army Times coming out with an article, too, Buddy -- the biggest percentage of those dying in Iraq -- ages 20 to 24. I don't know, that seems to me way too young to die.

This conversation is getting really good. I'M going to ask you gentlemen to stay put. We want to continue this. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: I want to continue our discussion about the fight in Iraq and whether troops should come home right now or not. Of course, this debate continues after John Murtha, Congressman John Murtha, came out with really strong words -- also a veteran, as you know, marine vet, a Vietnam vet -- saying that right now troops should come home and there's nothing more for them to do there.

So, we decided to ask a couple vets to join us in a discussion. Buddy Bucha, once again, Medal of Honor recipient, Steve Robertson, Gulf War vet whose son is serving in Iraq as we speak and also U.S. army reservist and Iraq war veteran Rob Timmins.

Gosh, guys, there's so many ways we can go within this discussion. Steve, let me ask you, your son's fighting in Iraq right now, you're a war vet. What is your biggest concern right now as Murtha comes forward and says these things about troops needing to leave? It appears to me there may be a lot of unfinished business that your son, who's in Iraq, would be concerned about.

ROBERTSON: Oh, absolutely. The fingerpointing and the name calling, this is all stuff that doesn't need to exist. When I came in in '73 at the end of Vietnam, even though I never stepped foot in Vietnam, I was given name calling and all kinds of actions. You know, supporting of the troops is absolutely critical.

The troops on the ground know that there's a mission to be accomplished. They are working every day; they're making the sacrifices of being away from their family and friends and loved ones to achieve that goal. We have to remain steadfast behind them. We are at war on terrorism. We are fighting terrorists. These -- this is not a country, they are not combatants. We're fighting thugs and we need to take care of business.

PHILLIPS: Buddy, as a Vietnam vet, medal of honor recipient for your mission in Vietnam, what do you think about those that are coming forward saying, this is Vietnam all over again?

BUCHA: I think the problem we have is that Vietnam seems to be whispered at night as if it's some creature that's that's going to come at night and steal your babies. The first thing Vietnam veterans would say is we want to hear an end to this talk about having lost a war. If you don't have a clear objective, you can't lose, you can just fail to achieve it. And if you don't have it, you can't even do that you're just wasting time.

That's the fear that people have. In Vietnam, as the nation tired of the effort that was being done -- 96 percent of Vietnam veterans said they would go back do it again knowing the outcome -- but, still the nation tired of it. The politicians then just changed their mind and swept these broken families and ruined bodies and unfulfilled dreams under some national carpet as if it were the crumbs from some last night patriotic binge.

The Vietnam veterans, and I think veterans of all, will not, and do not, want people to change their mind and say, that's it, come on home, sneak them home in the still of the night. The kids wearing this uniform are entitled to the hero's welcome that they deserve. The key, though, we, as a people, have an obligation to clearly state what is they must do in order to come home.

The reason there's this debate about stopping terrorism, it's very close to stopping Communism. If you start counting bodies, the presumption is there's only so many terrorists in the world, or so many communists. That isn't the way it works. There has to be a clear mission, get out of the way, give them the resources -- political, military, as well as economic -- to achieve it, and let them come home.

By the way, there is a lesson in Desert Storm I. That mission was clear. It was to expel the Iraqis from Kuwait. When they did it, President Bush had the courage to stand up and say, come home. We the had the parades and the minimum of casualties were endured. But the success of the mission was guaranteed. We need the same type of attitude. Not some patriotic statement -- we're fighting terrorists or we're stabilizing Democracy. Who knows when that is over. It isn't finite.

PHILLIPS: Rob, is there a clear mission here?

TIMMINS: I don't believe so. I mean, it seems like not even Secretary Condoleezza Rice, when she testified before Congress, she didn't even know if we were going to have to be there for five or ten years. There seems to be no mission, at least in the State Department.

So, the guys on the ground, you know, they have day-to-day missions that they accomplish every day, whether it be escorting a fuel convoy or raiding houses for weapons caches. But the overall mission is the one that Congressman Murtha is talking about and it hasn't materialized.

ROBERTSON: But part of the problem is in combat there's escalation of hostilities. The environment changes from day in TO day out. You know what the ultimate goal is and you have to make adjustments in your strategies. The worst thing we can do is to give the appearance that, as a nation, we're walking away from our guys and gals in uniform. We sent them over there to accomplish a task, and that is to fight the war on terrorism. If we don't remain --

PHILLIPS: Steve, is it possible to say that this was a mistake, but whether it was a mistake or not, they're there, they have to finish whatever the mission is and get out?

ROBERTSON: The attack on the World Trade towers is clear indication that they brought the battle to us. They brought the battle to the United States. When the war on terrorism started, you can go back to Beirut and say it started with Beirut.

The problem is, if we back away and walk away from this, it's just going to fuel the flames. We have a mission at hand, we need to take the battle to them. I do not want to see another attack on the Pentagon or the White House or the capital or any place else in the United States. This battle needs to be waged in their back yard, not ours.

PHILLIPS: Buddy, final thought?

BUCHA: Yes, I want to make something very clear now. Anybody who questions the political reasons for our war, or for anything else we do, it is absolutely wrong and unfair to suggest that that questioning in some way reflects lack of support or respect or, frankly, love for the troops, their families and the veterans they will become. That is wrong, that's nonsense, it has no place in this debate.

TIMMINS: Absolutely.

BUCHA: The debate right now is simple. Clearly state what the objective is. Give the troops all of the supplies they need, let them achieve it, then let them come home. Stopping terrorism, like stopping communism, is a wish. It is a dream. It is not an objective that is finite, that has the tool of measurement and that has a course of action that one can suggest.

These soldiers are the finest soldiers on the face of the Earth. They are entitled to the politicians and the political leadership of this nation taking the time to be specific in what they want achieved, not constantly sending them back over to muddle around in areas of operation. And then running the risk -- and, Steven, in all due respect -- running the risk of what happened in the past, where people tire of it and change their mind. That is unfair.

ROBERTSON: Well, I just hope the American people have the same constitution as the GIs that they're sending over there.

PHILLIPS: Gentlemen, as you can imagine, as we're sitting here talking about it, our Ed Henry on the Hill, actually with developments on what's happening there with this war on words. Buddy Bucha, Steve Robertson and also Rob Timmins, I can't thank you enough. I think this has given us an insight that we haven't seen yet on national television. Gentlemen, I salute all three of you and appreciate all your insight.

Ed, I don't know if you had a chance to listen to what they had to say, but I'll tell you what, this will not going to go away any time soon.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And that's what Democrats are trying to say, who at least who support Jack Murtha in spirit, is that they want a healthy debate over this. They're not necessarily jumping forth and endorsing his plan.

But what is going right now is CNN has confirmed that House Speaker Dennis Hastert later this afternoon or early this evening will bring up either Murtha's revelation or some tweaked version of it. We're still trying to nail down exactly what the language will be. But basically, Murtha's plan for immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

The point here is that Republicans are trying to call what they believe to be the Democrats' bluff and get Democrats on the record. Are you for this Murtha resolution or not?

I have a comment from Ron Bonjean, a spokesman for Speaker Hastert, saying quote, "The House will send a message to our Americans troops that we believe in their mission of fighting terrorists and we must not retreat and defeat more of the same that we heard from Mr. Hastert yesterday about concerns that they believe this is retreat and could help the terrorists." That obviously drawing strong objections from Democrats.

And we have a quote from a Democrat leadership aide here in the House, telling CNN, quote, "Mr. Murtha put forth a very serious proposal that merits serious consideration, not a P.R. stunt by Republicans." So you can see the rhetoric not getting any cooler.

But Republicans trying to call the Democrats' bluff. They believe, at the end of the day here, maybe only 20, 30, 40 -- nobody knows exactly how many -- but a small number of Democrats will support Murtha's resolution. And they think that can be a shot in the arm to the president if this is defeated mightily -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Ed Henry on the Hill and our three veterans that we talked about with regard to how they feel about John Murtha and what he had to say. We're going to continue to talk about this, plus other news. LIVE FROM's going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, good news for Delta passengers. It looks like there is no longer any possibility of a pilot strike before Thanksgiving. Kathleen Hays, live from the New Stock Exchange, with more on this. And Kathleen, interesting enough, had a birthday dinner last night. One of the individuals, Delta pilot, and I even said to him, what do you think? Is there going to be a strike? And he said no.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I guess that's what everybody is hoping for, Kyra. But, you know, it's good news for passengers but for people like your pilot friend, it's still tough going. Delta Airlines told a bankruptcy judge yesterday it's losing $5 million a day. And the airline is asking the court to allow it to force big wage cuts on pilots, who are threatening a strike if that happens. Clearly, still up in the air, no pun intended.

Now, the airline is unlikely to get any help from a court before the end of the month, because the judge adjourned the hearings until November 28 and that's why people are saying there won't be not a pilot strike before the busy Thanksgiving holiday. If the court approves Delta's proposed cuts, they will be on top of $1 billion in annual concessions the pilots agreed to in a five-year deal reached in 2004 -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Mickey Mouse's birthday today? We probably should have done a little bit more on this.

HAYS (singing): Happy birthday to you

PHILLIPS: Oh, no. Sibila Vargas sings. Now I've got you singing,, too.

HAYS: Oh, I know.

PHILLIPS: I'm going to put you guys together.

HAYS: It's Friday.

PHILLIPS: We should talk about the birthday. Gosh, we should have done something about that. But not a lot of cheer going on with Disney shareholders, though, right?

HAYS: No. But it's amazing. Mickey's turning 77 today. But definitely no love from Disney investors. The company's earnings took a hit from weak home video sales. Profit was also hurt by poor box office receipts from movies like "Dark Water" and "The Brothers Grimm" made by its Miramax unit. The company rushed to get lingering titles into theaters as it revamps that unit under new management.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HAYS: Coming up, would you like it find out how much your boss makes? I'll tell you about a new Web site that lets you in on executive compensation and other hot company topics. That's in the next hour of LIVE FROM. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com