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American Catholic Bishops Meet; Fight Over Iraq; Wildfires in California; Afghan Conflict Renewed

Aired November 18, 2005 - 13:57   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Scandals, lawsuits, abusive priests: topics likely to be on the agenda for this week's closed door meetings of America's Roman Catholic bishops. The ongoing sex abuse scandal is perhaps also inspiring a strong statement on homosexuality from the Vatican, expected out later this month.
Here's a quote from that statement, leaked in an Italian newspaper: "The Vatican plans disqualification from seminary for those who practice homosexuality, who possess deeply-rooted homosexual tendencies, or who sustain the so-called gay culture."

CNN's faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher, joining me live from New York to talk about this. And Delia, you had told me about this leak and you had also told me about the statement expected on November 29th. It seems pretty strong.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that the leak is indicative of what we can expect probably from the document. I know it seems pretty strong, but let's go back and look at it.

It says -- it denies admission to those who practice homosexuality. Well, that's fairly straightforward because it denies admission to those who practice heterosexuality, as well. So no surprises there. I think the difficult part of that statement is going to be the part of the deeply-rooted homosexual tendencies.

Because, of course, much is going to be in the interpretation of this document. It's going to be left up to seminary rectors or to bishops who have a young man in front of him who wants to enter the seminary to decide on these deeply-rooted homosexual tendencies.

So again, this is one phrase out of an eight-page document. But I think that it's indicative, probably, of the sort of tone that we're going to see in the document and just how discussion is going to come out of this, because so much of it depends on the interpretation.

PHILLIPS: Well, and it's interesting. You were telling me that representatives from the Vatican are actually going around to American seminaries and ask specific questions. Do you know the questions?

GALLAGHER: Yes, we do. Anybody can get the questions. They're on the Web site from the Vatican. And this is not related directly to the document that we were discussing previously. This is part of the apostolic visitations, which were a consequence of the 2002 meeting between the U.S. cardinals and Pope John Paul II during the height of that sex abuse scandal.

And some of those questions -- there's a sort of list of 50 questions that have to be asked. Let's look at a couple of those. Do the seminarians or faculty members have concerns about the moral life of those living in the institution? Is there evidence of homosexuality in the seminary? Do the seminarians know how to use alcohol, the Internet, television, et cetera, with prudence and moderation? And how does the seminary monitor seminarians' behavior outside seminary?

PHILLIPS: Wow.

GALLAGHER: I mean, this is a very interesting document, actually, to look, because it gives you an idea of what is the Vatican concerned about in investigating the seminaries. And these are sort of minimum four-day visits.

They have to speak to every single seminarian, every single professor at the seminary and even students who have graduated as of three years are allowed to come back and give them a report. So this is going to be very comprehensive. It takes at least a year to get through all of about 46 seminaries in the United States, and with the report then back to the Vatican.

PHILLIPS: And Delia, I think there's probably going to be a lot of controversy coming out this, yes? A lot of people thinking oof. A lot of people probably very happy about these direct questions, but others saying, wow, this is really intrusive.

GALLAGHER: No doubt. There's a lot of discussion that has already gone on and will no doubt be happening in the seminaries and a little bit outside in the media. This is something that the U.S. Cardinals agreed to and, in fact sort of said they wanted in response to the sex abuse scandal. They wanted to see part of what the Vatican thought about that was that there was a lack of adherence to certain moral rules in the seminary and that there were these difficulties in the seminary.

That's where it all begins for a priest. The seminary is where the seven year period, can be up to seven years for young man to study about the priesthood and then he becomes a priest. A very important time they consider in the formative life, both morally and intellectually of a young man. So, they're really clamping down and having a good look at what exactly is going on, how the seminarians are going to feel about that, I don't know.

PHILLIPS: All right. Delia Gallagher, you're going to join us again at 3:00 Eastern hour. About this mini series, pretty interesting topic. Also, if you don't mind, I want to tell our viewers you're our faith and values correspondent. Maybe we can introduce what that means to our views and talk a little bit about that at 3:00 Eastern. Sound good?

GALLAGHER: Very good. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right. Delia my pleasure, it's an honor. See you soon.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips and you're watching CNN's LIVEFROM. We're tracking these stories for you right now. Wildfires burning in California, threatening homes. We are getting the latest from emergency officials.

Is America forgetting the lessons of Katrina? Why are we still not ready for a hurricane?

And the so-called forgotten war. Fierce fighting in Afghanistan and it's not letting up. All that and more straight ahead on this hour of LIVEFROM.

The fight for Iraq. Actually, the fight over the fight for Iraq. A furious defense, a Democratic Congressman and well-known military hardliner John Murtha by fellow Democratic lawmaker and decorated veteran John Kerry a day after Murtha called on U.S. troops to leave Iraq immediately and hours after Republicans and the White House questioned Murtha's logic his motives, even his fortitude, Kerry had heard enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the house who never chose to put on the uniform of this country to serve called Jack Murtha a coward, and accused him of wanting to cut and run. Let me tell you, Mr. President, on its face you look at the record, you just look at his life. Jack Murtha has never cut and run from anything. Jack Murtha wasn't a coward when he put himself in harm's way for his country in Vietnam and he earned two purple hearts. He was a patriot then and he is a patriot today and he deserves his views to be respected, not vilified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Earlier reporters at the Pentagon heard from a field commander near Baghdad who told our Kathleen Koch, it's too soon to pull up stakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Colonel Brown, this is Kathleen Koch with CNN. I didn't know if you heard the remarks yesterday made by Congressman John Murtha calling for an immediate pullout from Iraq. Congressman Murtha being a marine for 37 years, Vietnam veteran who had been awarded the bronze star and two purple hearts. Coming from someone like that, what do you think of this call?

COL. JAMES BROWN, U.S. ARMY: Well, certainly I think that coming from a distinguished American and distinguished member of our Congress that the ongoing rhetoric of a democracy, our own democracy as we look at the future of our participation here. Physically here on the ground our job's not done. It's been very clear of our administration and by the leadership of the military here in Iraq that our exit from this theater should be condition based and it is condition based. Each day we see conditions being met where the Iraqis are taking the front seat. I think that we have to finish the job that we began here. It's important for the security of this nation, it's important for the security of this region and, certainly, it's important and a vital interest to the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, as we try to stay on top of this war of words, so is Ed Henry. He has been reporting all week there from the hill and now new developments, Ed, yes?

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra. CNN has learned that in fact House Republican leaders right now are privately mulling whether or not to call what they believe to be Jack Murtha's bluff. They're serious considering bringing up his resolution and calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops. Even though it is a Democratic resolution, Republican leaders thinking about calling it up. In the words of one for a floor vote in the House. In the words of one GOP aide vote, we are considering this to put people on record and call out those who want to cut and run. This is a political maneuver, Republicans thinking that perhaps if they get everyone on the record it might turn out that maybe only 30, 35 liberals may end up supporting this, for example.

Say you have 350 votes against it; they think that might provide a shot in the arm to Republicans. That may snuff out this effort by Murtha right away, and Republicans thinking it's time to actually see whether or not Democrats are serious about this. Let's remember, Jack Murtha went out there yesterday, but no other Democratic leader has gotten behind him yet. So Republicans again think that they'll call his bluff by calling this up for a vote on the house floor, get just about all the Republicans against it and get, they believe very few Democrats in favor of this resolution. They think this would end up embarrassing the Democratic Party.

It could also boom rang in other ways politically. But Republicans are considering this. If it doesn't happen today, we're being told they're likely to bring it up after the Thanksgiving break, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. And Ed too I just what to let our viewers know that we're going to continue following this. We actually got three vets that will be joining us, some that agree with Murtha and others that don't. It will be an interesting debate. Let me ask you real quickly Ed something coming across the wires about a lobbyist charge of conspiracy to defraud Indian tribes. Can you give us more information and more background on Michael Scanlon?

HENRY: That is right, CNN has confirmed that Michael Scanlon a partner with Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff. In fact was charged yesterday in U.S. District Court. One count of conspiracy to defraud millions of dollars from Indian tribes that were his client. And CNN senior producer Kevin Bond is being told Scanlon will have a court appearance Monday afternoon here in Washington. The significance here is that Abramoff is a big-time Republican lobbyist. He is being polled by this Washington Grand Jury in part as CNN has previously reported about his contact with Republican lawmakers around town. Whether or not Abramoff and Scanlon showered gifts in the form of sporting tickets and meals and trips on lawmakers.

Now, as we already know, Tom Delay, the former house majority leader, went on a trip to Scotland with Jack Abramoff and also Republican Congressman Bob Nay went on a trip to Scotland a golfing trip, as well, with Jack Abramoff. Mike Scanlon significance there is he is a former top aide to Tom Delay. And when you look at the charge, we just started sniffing through it the charge from the district court claims that Scanlon was involved in providing to "representative number one." It doesn't name, it's anonymous. Representative number one a lavish trip to Scotland to play golf. Sports tickets, entertainment, meals, and campaign contributions.

It also says that as a result, this lawmaker ended up, who's not named, ended up to help provide a contact for phone services here in the House of Representatives. There have been allegations out there that Congressman Bob Nay provided a sweetheart contact to a client of Abramoff, a phone contact and also allegedly this lawmaker, according to the charge, provided statements in the congressional record on behalf of an Abramoff/Scanlon client. That allegation has been hurled by Bob Nay again, Republician of Ohio. So, obviously, this is a case that has major ramifications for Michael Scanlon, a partner of the lobbyist Jack Abamoff but also, potentially, major ramifications for Republican lawmakers on the hill. Kyra.

PHILLIPS" Well Ed, just when I read the conspiracy to defraud Indian tribes, immediately I think of Indian-owned casinos and legislation concerning casinos and profits made. Is this tied in, in any way?

HENRY: Well there have actually been allegations out there that Delay and other Republican lawmakers may have helped Jack Abramoff help his Indian gaming clients kill some gaming legislation here on Capitol Hill. Those allegations have not been proven, but CNN has previously reported that, in fact, this grand jury in Washington is taking a look at what Abramoff was able to get from his clients from various lawmakers. Potentially Delay, potentially Bob Nay. There has also been allegations out there that Democratic lawmakers up here on the hill were helping Jack Abramoff, as well. This is a scandal that has been unfolding piece by piece and you can bet it is not anywhere close to being over yet Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ed Henry, thank you so much.

Meanwhile, the other top story we're following, of course the 1,000 firefighters battling that blaze in Ventura County. He is standing by now at the CNN Weather Center to kind of tell us about those wind conditions as we look at these live pictures. Pretty powerful stuff Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: They have been kicking up in the past hour or so, very heavy in the overnight hours and then they died off around sunrise and now they are kicking back up in the warmer part of the day as we start to move you a little bit closer. There's Oxnard way back behind me, there is L.A., so it's not affecting L.A. but look at the winds now from Camarillo at 28 from Oxnard 21, but the winds are gusting to 35. Here's Ventura, here is the fire itself. Here is the Ventura freeway, here is the Ohio freeway and the fire right behind me. Right behind this map. How do I know that? Because we can actually see part of the fire on the radar, the radar beam goes out, looks for rain drops, not finding rain drops it is actually finding smoke particles and it is bouncing back up towards the radar site.

Here we go, we're going to get you right on down to the Ohio freeway and there's the Ventura freeway. Kind of an open area here that didn't have a lot of homes around it but now this fire is building off towards the northeast here along the Ohio freeway and there you go right along this area here, we're seeing homes now being affected and here are some of the pictures now. We can go back to some of these -- at times they are very dramatic with big flames right behind very large homes. What's been happening now is the wind just rolling down the canyon spreading sparks from one fire and causing other hot spots in other areas.

The firefighters have had a very difficult time keeping one fire from jumping to another fire. The only good news is a lot of this really so far has only been burning brush. Saw a couple out buildings that did go up in flames, but, so far, nothing all that significant when it comes to the homes. But Kyra, you can see how close they are.

PHILLIPS: Yes it is pretty incredible live pictures. I couldn't believe how close the flames were getting to some of those homes. We actually saw people running from their homes and running down the streets, Chad. You're monitoring these live pictures as well; you'll let us know how things are developing and where things are picking up so we'll let viewers know.

MYERS: Absolutely. And if the fire does charge a little bit towards the south where Ventura is, obviously, this will get a whole lot more dangerous. But as long as it is between the Ohio and Ventura there is not much out there except for this cluster of homes that we're seeing here. But with the winds gusting to 35, it's not going to be hard for sparks to fly from one area to another and cause more fires out there today.

PHILLIPS: All right. Chad Myers, thanks so much.

MYERS: Your welcome.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, if disaster strikes are you ready or just ready to be rescued? A surprising look at the answers later on LIVEFROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Just about every day we bring you reports about the war in Iraq, but U.S. forces are also locked in another war, in Afghanistan. Some relatives of those serving there are calling it the forgotten war. But the relatives and the troops there for them it is anything but forgotten. (voice over): There are two disturbing developments that indicate the Afghan war is far from over. The apparent teaming of Al Qaeda fighters with their old ally, the Taliban, and a recent rash of suicide bombings. Afghanistan's defense minister warns that what's now happening in his country is similar to the insurgency and suicide bombings in Iraq. In fact, the military says that until two months ago suicide attacks were rare in Afghanistan. The latest was Wednesday when a bomber attacked a U.S. military convoy in the southern city of Kandahar, killing three civilians. On Monday, suicide bombers rammed cars filled with explosives into NATO peacekeepers in two attacks in the capital of Kabul.

A German soldier and eight Afghans were killed. They were the first major attacks on foreign troops in Kabul in more than a year. Military fighters blame Al Qaeda for the attacks. Foreign troops also were the target of another apparent attack today, east of Kabul. A Portuguese soldier attached to the 12,000 strong NATO peacekeeper force was killed when his vehicle hit an apparent landmine. Three other Portuguese troops were wounded. The upsurge in attacks doesn't bode well for Afghan President Karzai as he struggles to bring peace and democracy to his country.

Speaking to reporters this week, he warned that terrorism will remain to affect us, will remain to attack us for much more time to come. Joining me to talk more about Afghanistan, journalist, Eric Margolis is the author of the book "War, at the Top of the World." The struggle for Afghanistan Cashmere in Tilbet and you've sat down with a number of these terrorists and you've had conversations with them and you're concerned about Afghanistan.

ERIC MARGOLIS, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR: Well, I am and I have been for a long time. You know, we declared victory there a few years ago and said everything was fine, but it's not because, well, we haven't been watching very carefully. The Afghans -- Afghanistan is a mess. We have not been able to establish a politically solid national government in Afghanistan and, as we're finding in Iraq, the longer our troops stay there, we have 20,000 troops now combing the countryside for Bin Laden, the longer we stay, the more they become irritants and in the eyes of the Afghans, and the Afghans are very naturalistic people who don't like foreigner are starting to turn against us in larger numbers.

PHILLIPS: Do you feel that Kabul will fall completely if U.S. troops left right now?

MARGOLIS: Yes, if we stop protecting the Karzai regime it would be a matter of days if not hours before he is thrown out. You know President Karzai is protected by 100 American bodyguards. He goes nowhere without them. He can't trust his own people. That, to me, is the most telling indication of how wobbly things are in Afghanistan.

PHILLIPS: Well, I think that's going to make a lot of people nervous because if you say we sort of had this false sense of victory there in Afghanistan, and, really things are getting worse, then you think about Iraq and then you have all these politicians talking about getting out of Iraq, not getting out of Iraq, yet, I guess we still have this issue of Afghanistan. Boy, it puts us in quite a conundrum.

MARGOLIS: Well 20,000 troops costing $1.5 billion a month chasing ghosts through the mountains is one issue. No end in sight to our engagement in Afghanistan because there is no political solution and the third issue is the fact that members of the Afghan government in Afghanistan is the world's largest source of heroin now. Produces over 70 percent of the world's heroin, high level officials there and in Pakistan have been corrupt by the heroin trades. And we're back to the Vietnam days when we ended up collaborating with some of the most villainist people we could find.

PHILLIPS: So Al Qaeda, is it getting stronger? And the Taliban, I mean, is that starting to sort of regroup and become strong again?

MARGOLIS: Al Qaeda is not stronger, in my view. Taliban was never defeated. All they did was just change their turbines from black ones to white ones and blend back into the scenery. They couldn't put up with the b-52 bombers. They're just there waiting until the Americans get tired and start pulling out to start attacking, but there's a third force and that's pushing the tribal groups, who are also angry at the Americans led by someone who is not Taliban or Al Qaeda, they are turning against the American forces. Just as the Afghans turned against the Soviets when they occupied Afghanistan.

PHILLIPS: So is terrorism increasing, as some say, in Iraq? Terrorism is increasing because in Afghanistan we weren't really hearing about suicide bombings on a regular basis and now there are reports that those are increasing against U.S. troops there.

MARGOLIS: Yeah I think that's a very disturbing development. Such attacks were, as you noted, extremely rare and now they're becoming common, which suggests that Jihadis, that is Islamic militant fighters, are coming in from Iraq and other parts of the Muslim world to Afghanistan to wage the suicide attacks. Suicide attacks are not in the nature of the Afghans. They'll fight to the death, but they don't like to commit suicide.

PHILLIPS: A lot of people saying, look, we have to stay in that fight because we want to fight the insurgents before they get here on our homeland. Do you agree with that?

MARGOLIS: No, I don't. That's a preposterous notion. The Afghans insurgents or militants or what ever you want to call them are not about to attack New Jersey. They just want to be left alone to do their thing in Afghanistan. The problem is we have no objective in Afghanistan, beside getting Bin Laden and we're just going to end up stuck there indefinitely. We can't afford it, the army can't take it and as I said we're turning not only turning the Afghans but Pakistnis next door very upset about our ongoing presence there.

PHILLIPS: Eric Margolis thanks for talking with us again today, it is always a pleasure.

MARGOLIS: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: Coming up find out how the CDC plans to ground a potential pandemic if it hitches a ride with air travelers. LIVEFROM continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, hurricane Katrina showed us how many of us were unprepared to deal with a natural disaster. The author of a new study has an answer and calls it a recipe for caucus. Lets get straight to our Kimberly Osias, she is in Washington. Kimberly what exactly does the study show?

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well I will tell you Kyra it says that we're not very ready, at least that's according to Paul Light, he is the professor from NYU that actually authored this study. He goes on to say that America's condition, as you alluded to is, in fact, a recipe for disaster. His study was conducted over four months that started out in July and then concluded in October, seven weeks after Katrina and Rita hit. He spoke out this morning with Representative Tom Davis say essentially the net effect of Katrina is no effect at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROF. PAUL LIGHT, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Our pure motivation for that survey was to see whether Katrina had any affect whatsoever on American citizen preparedness. The answer is that Katrina was, for the most part, not a wake-up call to most Americans. In fact, our evidence suggests that it was another opportunity to hit the snooze alarm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: Yikes. Professor Light talks about a general malaise that sort of not in my back yard mentality. Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Sorry about that, I thought you were going to another piece of sound there, Kimberly. You're saying as a nation we're no better prepared than we were before Katrina. What does this mean for everybody living along the Gulf Coast.

OSIAS: Well Kyra I'm not actually saying that, the author of this study is saying that and he's saying these folks on the trenches on the front lines in the Gulf Coast really need to be ready because, of course, they, in essence, are those first responders for hours maybe even days. Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Any solutions?

OSIAS: Well, that's, scientists can do so many studies on such a variety of topics, they got a lot of data and a lot of numbers and they certainly can't make events happen and what is really interesting in this study is that sometimes the data lines up. In fact, what was originally studied here was a reaction to a terrorist attack when the hurricanes happened and then they sort of tweaked their questions. The bottom line is that folks have really lost confidence in local government. So, as you said, what do you do? Professor Light wants to see a citizen's preparedness director, kind of a (INAUDIBLE) to a national intelligence director, maybe out of the Homeland Security Department. PHILLIPS: Kimberly Osias thank you.

Well a lot of people compared the Gulf Coast to a war zone after hurricane Katrina hit in August. And that includes people who know exactly what they are talking about. Alino Cho has the story of a marine reservist who has gone it helping rebuild Iraq to rebuilding part of Louisiana.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Nearly three months after hurricane Katrina, St. Bernard parish looks a lot like it did the day after the storm.

LT. Col. DAVID DYSART, ST. BERNARD PARISH RECOVERY DIR: That is one of the shrimping boats that came from Lake Ponchantrain (ph) about six miles from the north.

CHO: Lt. Col. David Dysart is the man the parish has hired as its director of recovery. He has done this type of job before on the other side of the world. Dysart a U.S marine reservist, helped rebuild Fallujah, the Iraqi city that also suffered a flood. That experience got him this job. When you first walked around this parish and you saw the devastation, did you immediately think Fallujah?

DYSART: Oh, man, I had chills going up and down my spine. The streets were under water. I was actually riding in my vehicle and I reached for my weapon and it wasn't there.

CHO: Katrina damaged half of the homes in St. Bernard Parish beyond repair; the same was true in Fallujah.

DYSART: We actually went in and cleared out every single home and put markings on the buildings and those indicated that the marines had gone into that house and ensured that there was no weapons or insurgents in the house. Now, these are marked to make sure that there was no one dead found inside the building.

CHO: In terms of strategy, how is the strategy similar?

DYSART: Well, when I was in Fallujah, I was working with incredible officer named Colonel Shep and he said that extreme times call for extreme measures and the first thing he did in the rebuilding of that particular city was we removed all the debris.

CHO: Dysart said when that is complete residents will have a reason to come back and so will the businesses.

DYSART: We're looking at setting up a couple of factories here in the Parish that are going to be able to produce ten homes a day on a conveyer belt-type assembly so we'll be able to drop these into the community.

CHO: For now the 500 or so residents who have returned are living in trailers. Dysart says by Christmas he hopes thousands more will be back, but he admits it's going to take time. Alina Cho, CNN, St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead a vet speaks out about the war in Iraq. We're going to talk to some other vets about what they think about this new talk of getting out in six months. They're coming up next on LIVEFROM. Stay with us.

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