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Nike Corporate Jet Has Landing Gear Problems in Oregon; Where is Abu Musab al Zarqawi?
Aired November 21, 2005 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: I just want to recap for our viewers at the top of the hour right now. You're watching live pictures via our affiliate KPTV there out of Portland, Oregon. This is actually Hillsboro, Oregon, exactly where this aircraft is.
It's a Nike corporate jet, seven people on board. It was preparing for an emergency landing at Portland International Airport after experiencing a landing gear problem upon takeoff. But what you have now is the pilot has been circling around trying to figure out how to sort of break loose the landing gear on the right side of that aircraft.
You can see it right there. Look at that. Amazing tight shot coming to us via our affiliate there on the ground at the airport.
You can see that the nose gear is down. The left side of the aircraft has its landing gear down. But on the right side of the aircraft, it's at about a 45-degree angle. That's where the landing gear got locked.
So the pilot has been trying to pick up the Gs a little bit to knock it loose and hope that that landing gear will come down so he or she can make a safe landing.
We're told that this Gulfstream V took off from Hillsboro, Oregon, and it was headed to Toronto. And -- but when there was an issue with the landing gear, of course, they've been dealing with this scenario airborne since that happened.
We're told that the airport has closed off the surface road north of the runway that the plane is expected to use. So they've cleared that area. The condition at the airport are described as clear with high visibility, no wind.
And with us on the phone as we're following these live pictures, Carol Dean-Toder has flown this aircraft 1,000 hours in this type of aircraft, in the Gulfstream, has also been an instructor in this aircraft.
Carol, you're doing a great job just sort of giving us a play-by- play with regard to what this pilot is going through and hopefully will not have any issues with this landing once this aircraft has to come down.
Now Carol, I understand it had about 25,000 pounds of fuel when it took off.
CAROL DEAN-TODER, FMR. GULFSTREAM V INSTRUCTOR: Yes, OK.
PHILLIPS: And, what, it's been airborne for about an hour or so?
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: Can you drop that fuel pretty quickly in order -- because, obviously, you don't want a bunch of fuel in the tank because you want to prevent an explosion.
DEAN-TODER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So, you know, this is something that could take a few hours. Do you think we're close since the pilot is coming in pretty close to the -- to the landing strip?
Yes, they can get rid of quite a bit of fuel. But the actual procedure, basically, has them turning off the fuel control switches before landing. It really isn't required to dump all of your fuel, as long as -- what they might be trying to do here is getting down to an acceptable landing weight.
That's the trouble with having an emergency directly after takeoff if you have a lot of fuel on board, if you're going to make a long flight. These G-5s (ph) can fly for 14 hours. They have a range of approximately 6,500 nautical miles.
So you're taking off with a lot of fuel if you're going overseas or across the continent. So, what they may be doing as well is just trying to get down to an acceptable landing weight, not so much getting rid of all the fuel. They will be turning off the fuel control switches before landing.
PHILLIPS: All right. So, as we continue to monitor this, well, can you give a guesstimate about how much time this pilot may have? I mean, could we continue to watch this for some time, or do you think he or she is getting close to come in for a landing? What do you think?
DEAN-TODER: I think that it's hard to say. And I know that a lot of times these scenarios run on and on and on, and then they end up having a non-eventful landing. This pilot is not concerned about our situation covering the story.
PHILLIPS: Of course.
DEAN-TODER: You know, they are just going to take their time. It's very important in a situation like this to not rush, to just take your time.
This is not an emergency that you have to worry about getting on the ground quickly. This is a situation in which they can take their time and just really be prepared and have completely tried every option that they can. So, it's very hard to predict how long we may be watching the screen here before they come down and make a landing. I don't think it's going to be too much longer. I mean, there's not that much more that these -- that these pilots can do at this point. So, I don't think that this is going to go on for much longer at this point.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, stick with us. And I'll just wait for the queue on how long we're going to stay with these live pictures.
Carol Dean-Toder, stay with us, former Gulfstream instructor, also a thousand hours on the Gulfstream jet.
We're talking about these live pictures that we're following via our affiliate KPTV. You're looking at the Gulfstream V here airborne. This is actually a tape that we prerecorded when we got a good shot of the back of the aircraft.
You can see the landing gear in question there on the right side of the aircraft. It's locked at about 45 degrees, the nose is down, left side of the aircraft no problem. But this Gulfstream V on its first flight coming straight out of the factory owned by Nike Corporation. Not quite sure who was on board this jet, whether it's a high-ranking official for Nike, but we know there are seven individuals on board this aircraft.
And right now the pilot is just trying to -- well, taking his or her time circling the airport there in Hillsboro, Oregon, trying to knock loose the right side of that landing gear, possibly using, trying to use a little extra G force to knock it loose and bring it down. That would be the best-case scenario, and then they could bring that aircraft down for a landing.
But for a little more than an hour, the pilot has been burning fuel and working his or her way around the airport. It was over at the Portland, Oregon, international airport. Now it looks like the pilot is going to try to land at Hillsboro airport.
Carol's still on the line with us.
Let me ask you this...
DEAN-TODER: Yes?
PHILLIPS: ... in a situation like this, I'm just assuming -- I know the Portland airport well. I don't know the Hillsboro airport well. But I'm assuming in a situation like this it is probably easier to sort of control the atmosphere with regard to other aircraft taking off and landing. And so it's probably smarter that it tries to land at a less busy, smaller airport?
DEAN-TODER: Yes. I'm not very familiar with the Hillsboro airport in particular either. But I'm sure that their main concern isn't that the airport might be busy. Their main concern is finding the longest, widest runway for this particular malfunction. That is one of your top priorities in this malfunction, because you -- you are going to have some trouble controlling the aircraft position on the runway after landing.
I'm fairly certain that this pilot is going to keep this aircraft centered when he touches down. However, the possibility is that because of one gear being up there on the side, that you're going to need plenty of runway, the width, as well as the length of the runway, to be comfortable with this.
PHILLIPS: I'll tell you what. We'll -- maybe we can -- the width and the length of the runway, maybe we can get our writers working.
Hey, Mike, maybe we can get one of our writers working some of the behind-the-scenes details of this airport.
And then, Carol, you might be able to give us a feel for if indeed that runway is wide enough and long enough. We'll try to work those details, a little more factoids on the Hillsboro airport. And then maybe we can talk a little more intelligently about the landing, and if you think it will work for this type of aircraft.
DEAN-TODER: That sounds like a good idea.
PHILLIPS: OK.
DEAN-TODER: I'm sure that that's something that they've been looking into as well.
PHILLIPS: All right. So we'll work information on Hillsboro, Oregon, airport.
Meanwhile, we're looking at live pictures. Carol Dean-Toder watching them with us, former Gulfstream instructor, also with a thousand hours in the cockpit of this type of aircraft.
What you're looking at is a Nike corporate jet that took off from this Hillsboro, Oregon, airport about an hour, hour and a half or so ago. It was heading to Toronto, and there were some issues with the landing gear.
You can see that the nose, wheels down on the nose, left side of the aircraft. But it's the right side where the landing gear is locked in at about a 45-degree angle.
And Carol and I have been talking about the different scenarios of what the pilot could do to try and bring this aircraft down for a safe landing.
And maybe we can go over that once again, Carol.
Obviously, trying to -- he or she trying to knock it out with G force, kind of loosen it up so it comes down. But if -- if the landing gear, the right side of that landing gear, stays locked at 45 degrees, what will the pilot do? Because eventually when you're running out of fuel, you have got to land that aircraft.
DEAN-TODER: That's correct. This pilot is going follow the procedures that have been, you know, created by Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation letter by letter.
And they are going to come down on this runway, they're going to keep it centered on the center line as best as possible. They're going to keep the weight off of the right side of the airplane as long as possible while the airplane slows down. That should not be a problem.
Right now what's happening is, I'm sure they've tried every procedure they can to get this gear to come down. And they're probably fairly certain that it's not going to come down any more at this point.
What's happening on the airplane right now is that the flight attendant and perhaps the captain, as well, or the co-pilot have been briefing the passengers on what to expect. They're reassuring the passengers that everything is going to be fine, but they're also briefing them on the emergency landing procedures and the emergency evacuation procedures to get these passengers off of the airplane as quickly and safely as possible after landing.
PHILLIPS: Now, the communication process, is the pilot talking to anybody in the tower to try to coordinate what's going to happen?
DEAN-TODER: Yes. The tower is going to be coordinating the emergency vehicles for the pilot. He will let the pilot know when the emergency vehicles are dispatched. And they'll be waiting alongside the runway, of course, to be there to assist the aircraft in any way after landing.
Most likely, they won't be needed. But they're going to be there just in case.
The passengers are probably fairly nervous, but one of the main functions of the flight attendant and also the pilots is to reassure those passengers and to brief them and prepare them for this type of landing.
PHILLIPS: All right. I'm looking -- we've got some information now on Hillsboro airport.
It says here that it's located on the west side of the Portland metropolitan region. It's just adjacent to the city of Hillsboro.
It's in an area known as the Sunset Corridor. More than 200,000 operations annually. Boy, that's not as active as you would, you know, say Portland International Airport.
But it says here it's Oregon's second busiest airport, Carol.
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: Let's see, 900-acre executive airport which supports all facets of general aviation, two runways, 6,600 and 4,049.
Four full-service fixed-base operators. And the airport provides all the facilities necessary to support jet and propeller-driven aircraft and helicopters.
All right. So here we go: two runways 6,600 and about 4,049 on the other one.
So what do you think?
DEAN-TODER: I think as far as length, obviously they're going to be using the...
PHILLIPS: The longer one.
DEAN-TODER: Yes, they're going to be using that longer runway, and that should be plenty long enough for this landing.
Did you get any information about the width?
PHILLIPS: Yes. I'm looking at it right now. It doesn't say anything -- no, it doesn't say anything about the width.
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: Yes. I've just got length.
DEAN-TODER: That's one of the first things you do, is you're going to look for the longest and widest runway in that area.
PHILLIPS: And let's talk about why width is so important. Incase it sort of -- it might work its way off to one side or another because of the lack of balance?
DEAN-TODER: That's right. You know, any time your directional control is going to be in question, you know, this airplane is designed to land with all three gears assemblies on the ground. You know, you can take one of those away and you're obviously not going to have the same directional control after landing.
It's going to take some work to keep that on the -- on the center line. So the more runway you have, the wider it is, the less chance there is you're going to run off into the grass and, you know, cause some damage to that airplane.
Hopefully this landing won't cause any real damage to the aircraft. And once they figure out the gear problem, it will be operating again fairly soon.
PHILLIPS: So you know what's interesting? Is that we're talking about how it's going to land and trying to cause the least amount of damage to the aircraft. But I haven't heard really any major concerns about the crew or the passengers on board.
I mean, they're pretty much -- I mean, if all goes well, I mean, you don't -- that's not really a concern. They're pretty much OK, correct?
DEAN-TODER: That's correct. I mean, any time you have an emergency or abnormal procedure like this, there is always a certain level of risk, you know, because you don't have the airplane under complete control. And so there is always a little bit of risk in a situation like this. But in this particular situation the risk is not very high.
These pilots are highly trained. This is not something like an aircraft fire or a dual-engine failure or something that is a very dire situation. You know, this is something that these professionals should be able to deal with quite well.
Unfortunately, it's been an unpleasant day for the executives on board. And they're disappointed with the way their first flight has turned out. But, you know, it's going to probably just be a story they get to tell their grandkids one day.
PHILLIPS: And that's good to hear, I've got to tell you.
DEAN-TODER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So now we're pretty much playing in a waiting game. We don't have a live picture on that aircraft.
Here we go. We've got a live picture now. And I'm not quite sure where exactly the aircraft is now. I don't know, maybe if I'm throwing this out here, about whether we're going to stay rolling on this or move on to other news as we continue -- OK.
All right. All right. We're going to -- we're going to stay on it, Carol.
We obviously don't want to miss the landing. We want to see what's going to happen.
DEAN-TODER: Right.
PHILLIPS: We're still trying to work information on who is on board that Nike Gulfstream V. Not sure if it's high ranking as the CEO, or if there are -- you know, the players on board that aircraft, who the seven on board are in addition to that pilot.
Definitely a copilot on an aircraft like this, Carol?
Oh, OK. I've got Carol on hold for just a second.
Tony Harris in the newsroom working more on this story.
Anything else, Tony, you've been able to gain?
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Kyra, we're going to find out some new information right now. We're hopeful of that.
Connie King is on the line with us. She is with the Hillsboro Fire Department.
Connie, you there?
CONNIE KING, HILLSBORO FIRE DEPT.: Yes, I am. HARRIS: Connie, good to talk to you. You can sort of guide us through this.
First of all, when did you get any kind of indication today of problems with this Gulfstream V?
KING: Yes, at about 8:00 this morning we received an advisory that there was a potential aircraft incident out here at Hillsboro airport. This is not an unusual situation for us that the landing gear will not retract or will not come down. So we do respond to these kind of situations with some degree of frequency. And at 8:00 this morning that was an advisory, that the plane was in the air burning fuel.
At approximately 10:00 this morning we were dispatched, all of our personnel and all of our fire apparatus out here, because the plane was going to attempt a touch and go. It is our understanding that the touch and go was to try to rectify the wheel situation. They did do touch and go's safely, but it did not rectify the wheel situation.
So at about 10:15, an hour ago, they went back up into the air. They have been circling since that time. And during this time that they're circling, they're burning fuel and making a plan to bring this plane in for a safe landing.
At this point, they have not determined whether they're going to land the plane at Portland International Airport on the northeast side of the Portland metropolitan area, or whether they will bring the plane in here to Hillsboro, which is on the southwest side of the Portland metropolitan area.
HARRIS: And Connie, what -- can you tell us what the factors will be in making that decision as to where the plane actually attempts this landing?
KING: I cannot speak to that. I have no experience in landing aircraft whatsoever. And the fire department likewise has no experience in landing aircraft. We are the emergency response personnel.
HARRIS: OK. Maybe you can give us some guidance in this area, then. Have you ever had to handle an emergency landing of the type that is probably going to be attempted here before?
KING: Yes. We do handle these kinds of incidences when they come in to Hillsboro airport.
HARRIS: So it is absolutely conceivable for you that the landing will be attempted at Hillsboro?
KING: It is conceivable for us that we will respond to this aircraft landing, yes.
HARRIS: So how have you responded? Give us a sense of what kind of materials you have at your disposal. KING: We have staged out here two fire engines, a fire truck, and two rescue with approximately 20 personnel and a full command staff, as well.
HARRIS: So Connie, in the past have you ever needed all of that equipment? You've indicated that you've had this situation happen before. Has it gone badly to the point where you need it to swing into action?
KING: In my eight years here at Hillsboro Fire Department, all the planes have landed successfully.
HARRIS: They've all landed successfully?
KING: They have all landed successfully.
HARRIS: OK. And to the best of your knowledge as you're getting from the airport and maybe the tower, the aircraft right now is simply burning fuel? Do you anticipate any additional touch-and-go maneuvers?
KING: Since the time they did the two touch-and-go maneuvers, they have come in on what are called low, slow approaches so we can get visuals. In the interim, our fire department personnel have been over to a flight hangar where they were instructed, briefed and familiarized with a like aircraft.
So our response capabilities are high. We train with the airport on a routine basis. And our personnel are totally capable of responding to this sort of an incident.
HARRIS: Connie, one last question. Is this a situation where you have closed off access roads to the airport?
KING: That's correct.
HARRIS: OK.
Connie King with the Hillsboro Fire Department.
Connie, thanks for your time.
KING: You're welcome.
HARRIS: And Kyra, back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Tony. Thank you so much.
HARRIS: Sure, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: We want to bring Carol Dean-Toder back in, former Gulfstream instructor, also has about a thousand hours in the cockpit of one of those Gulfstreams.
And so, Carol, were you able to hear that interview by chance with the fire department? DEAN-TODER: Yes, ma'am, with the emergency response personnel?
PHILLIPS: Yes. Did that add to anything here with regard to what you're learning about the situation?
DEAN-TODER: Yes. You know, it's -- I totally expected to hear everything she said.
These people also are highly trained, just like the pilots on the airplane. And they're ready for any possible scenario, worst-case scenario they're prepared for. And, you know, these are the people you want to see when you're coming in for a landing in a situation like this because you know that they're going to take care of you if you need them.
PHILLIPS: All right. So, we're looking at live pictures now of the -- all the fire trucks there just getting in place, making sure that the situation is under control. Hopefully they will not have to go into full alert there when that aircraft comes down.
But so far, we're looking at all the facts here, Carol.
The Gulfstream V doing everything that a trained pilot should do in a situation like this. Still hasn't been able to knock down that right side of the landing gear, but we did get some more numbers for you with regard to the -- where the pilot may land this aircraft.
According to emergency, those emergency management folks, it might not land at Hillsboro airport. You heard that too, right?
DEAN-TODER: That's correct, yes.
PHILLIPS: OK.
DEAN-TODER: And I'm not surprised that there is some discussion about what the best runway would be here, because, as I said before, they really want the longest, widest runway for this procedure. They also want to have a runway that is parallel with the wind direction as much as possible.
They do not want to have to deal with the crosswind, which adds to, you know, directional instability. So there may be a runway else where that has acceptable lengths and widths with the wind coming straight down the runway for them.
PHILLIPS: And the runway at Hillsboro, there are two runways. You and I were talking bout this. But it looks like the longest one is 6,600 feet, 150 feet wide.
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: That doesn't seem real wide.
DEAN-TODER: That's not.
PHILLIPS: Yes. DEAN-TODER: That's pretty standard. Your wider runways are about 200 feet wide. And that's something I would be looking for in this situation. So maybe that's why they're considering another airport, just to be extra careful about how this all turns out.
PHILLIPS: All right. And just to sort of recap for our viewers, Carol -- and I apologize if it seems like it's getting redundant, but people tune in and tune out and come back for new information...
DEAN-TODER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: ... and they walk away for a little bit. So I'm just going to recap for our viewers and then we'll go through the options again for this pilot with you, Carol.
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: Right now you're looking at some tape of when we got a pretty good close-up of this aircraft, this Gulfstream V. It's a Nike corporate jet.
It's the first time this aircraft has been airborne. And seven people on board. Not quite sure if the CEO of Nike is on this aircraft or not, but they were heading -- they were leaving Oregon, heading toward Toronto.
Here's a live picture once again of that Gulfstream. Oh, this is tape. All right. This is tape, but it's just a great shot of the Gulfstream via our affiliate KPTV.
And you can see what happened. When the plane took off it had issues with the landing gear. The nose is down, left side of the aircraft no problem. But it's the right side, it's that landing gear on the right side. It's locked at about a 45-degree angle, and obviously the pilot trying to shake that landing gear loose and bring it down so he or she can land that Gulfstream safely.
Carol Dean-Toder, former Gulfstream instructor, has flown this type of aircraft. She's helping us sort of narrate this situation as it's hopefully going to come to a safe end pretty soon.
But Carol, once again, let's talk about the pilot's options. If the pilot can't sort of shake that left side of the landing gear loose, what does he or she do?
DEAN-TODER: These pilots are going to be looking for the longest, widest runway available in that area with proper emergency response personnel available. And they want a runway that is parallel with the wind direction so that they have the best possible directional control when they touch down.
When these pilots come down, they're going to shut off the fuel before landing just to prevent any type of fire emergency if there is some friction on that right wing that may touch down because there is no gear support on that side. And they're going to hold the weight off of that right side as long as possible as the aircraft decelerates. And they're going to make every effort to stay on that center line to prevent wavering off to one side of the runway.
And let me reassure you, too, this is not the first flight for this airplane. It may be the first flight with Nike, but Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation has I'm sure tested this airplane in every way.
PHILLIPS: They are calling it maiden voyage. So are we saying that this is the first time it maybe had commercial passengers on board and it's making an actual corporate flight?
DEAN-TODER: What this probably is -- and I'm not sure, but you are getting the information of a maiden voyage. This airplane was probably recently delivered to Nike Corporation, and it's the first flight perhaps that the executives have been on board.
PHILLIPS: Got it.
DEAN-TODER: But, by no means is this the first flight this airplane has ever had.
PHILLIPS: OK. It's not like it just came straight out of the factory and, boom, here you go.
DEAN-TODER: No.
PHILLIPS: OK.
DEAN-TODER: No. This airplane has been flown quite a bit by the Gulfstream test pilots. And the pilots that work for Nike helped deliver this aircraft to their facility. So this is, by no means, the first flight for this airplane. Perhaps it is just the first flight that they have had their executives on board.
PHILLIPS: All right. So let's talk about how this landing gear, some of the options to why it could have gotten locked in this 45- degree position. You mention, possibly, it could be pilot error, that in the pre-flight check or he she didn't pull the pins out, right?
DEAN-TODER: That's a possibility.
PHILLIPS: OK.
DEAN-TODER: This system, the landing gear system on the Gulfstream V, is a hydraulic system. So there is a possibility it could be a hydraulic malfunction.
There is the possibility that it could be a mechanical problem, if there was a pin left in that gear assembly that was not removed during the preflight. That could have affected it. There may be a problem with gear door acuator (ph) that controls the gear doors.
PHILLIPS: Oh, let's talk -- all right, let's talk about that for a minute, because according to the manager for communications and media relations with the FAA Northwest Mountain Alaska region, he said that, Carol, apparently this started when the door didn't completely closed.
DEAN-TODER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So they recycled that -- the gear, trying to make the gear go back down and then back up again.
DEAN-TODER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: And when it was coming back, then the gear got stuck.
DEAN-TODER: Yes. That -- so your information is that the gear originally went all the way up?
PHILLIPS: Let's see.
DEAN-TODER: The door just didn't come up?
PHILLIPS: Yes, apparently -- well, I got -- I got just a sentence or two from him.
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: He just said that it -- that it started when the door didn't completely close.
DEAN-TODER: OK.
PHILLIPS: So I guess it would have been heading -- heading upward, right? And then...
DEAN-TODER: Yes. There is a whole sequence of events that happens when those pilots take that landing gear handle and retract the landing gear. There's a whole set of different hydraulic sequences controlling the gear assembly, controlling the gear doors. And if there is a problem in just one of the sequences -- and apparently, if you -- if they tried to cycle the gear, which is proper procedure in that situation...
PHILLIPS: Right?
DEAN-TODER: ... then if there was a problem with the gear door actuator that could have caused the problem as well.
PHILLIPS: And that's what causes the door to open and close?
DEAN-TODER: That's right.
PHILLIPS: OK. Got it.
DEAN-TODER: These doors are hydraulically operated as well.
PHILLIPS: Got it.
OK. So, once again, not quite sure if this -- if the pilot is going to try and make a landing at the Hillsboro, Oregon, airport where we're seeing the plane circling right now.
Actually, we actually don't have a visual on the aircraft right now, so it's possible that the aircraft might be going to another airport. The other option would be the Portland, Oregon, airport.
This is the aircraft that we're talking about. We were able to capture this good, tight shot of this Gulfstream V.
It's a Nike corporate jet, seven people on board, circling around, dumping a lot of its fuel. At the same time, trying to break free the right side landing gear there.
You can see it caught at about a 45-degree angle. The nose is down, the left side is down.
And we continue to follow this live coverage with Carol Dean- Toder, former Gulfstream instructor, also has about a thousand hours in the cockpit of this aircraft.
And when you -- when you look at the options, Carol, more than likely, because the pilot has gone through the training -- and we're watching these live pictures -- that everything should be OK, that the pilot should be able to bring this aircraft down, because there are a number of options on how to land this aircraft, if, indeed, he or she can't break loose that right side of that landing gear.
DEAN-TODER: That's correct. There's really no major cause for concern here.
You know, unfortunately, this isn't the ideal situation. Of course, the best situation would be to have the landing gear operating in the normal operation. And but most likely this is going to be uneventful, and they should be able to keep that aircraft centered on the runway.
There should be no injuries on board, although they will all be briefed and prepared for an emergency landing, and also for an emergency evacuation, which would get these people off the airplane as soon as possible after the aircraft comes to a complete stop.
PHILLIPS: OK. So the flight attendant -- there's always a flight attendant on these corporate Gulfstream flights.
DEAN-TODER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So either he or she has got the crew -- they're more than likely all buckled in. Are they in a certain type of position, or -- I mean, kind of give me a visual for what that -- those passengers on board are having to do right now.
DEAN-TODER: The passengers on board are being -- the flight attendant is coordinating closely between the cockpit and the passengers. And I'm quite certain that the captain has been back there as well just to, you know, talk to the passengers and reassure them that everything is going to be all right, that they're dealing with a situation, that they're going to come back in and land and -- because those passengers want to take a look at the captain's face and make sure that he doesn't look too worried.
And they are going to be -- this really isn't a high-level emergency, but they're going to take every precaution to have these passengers safely seated and buckled up and aware of the procedures for an emergency evacuation.
PHILLIPS: All right, Carol, stay with us. We sure appreciate you just staying with us on the line for such a large amount of time as we're following this developing story.
Live pictures from the tower to the air, to on the ground. We're hoping that a pilot is able to bring a Nike Corporate jet down for a safe landing after getting landing gear locked on the right side.
Tony Harris working other angles to this story from the news room.
Tony, what you got?
HARRIS: And Kyra, you talked to him a little earlier, John King, a flight instructor with King Schools is back on the line with us.
John, are you there?
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am.
HARRIS: John, good to talk to you.
You had a point you wanted to make about what we're seeing now this coordination, and trying to figure out the best--sorry--the best runway to attempt this landing.
Well, there are two airports that are a possibility. There's Hillsboro that they've been circling around doing the test go's at.
And there's Portland International. And the runway at Portland International is 11,000 feet long and 150 feet wide. It's quite a bit longer than the Hillsboro Airport, which is 6,600 feet long.
But the dilemma they have is the weather at Portland has not been as good as it has been at Hillsboro.
HARRIS: I see.
KING: So what they're doing is waiting, I believe. And they've got plenty of fuel to do this. And we're hoping that the weather at Portland improves.
Because if I were the captain of this aircraft I would rather have that 11,000 foot runway...
HARRIS: Yes.
KING: ...versus a 6, 600 foot runway.
There won't be any brakes on the wheels on the right side because they are up. So you won't have brakes on the right side. I would prefer to have the longer runway.
HARRIS: John, just to clarify. Just sort of back us up all the way through this process.
What we're experiencing now, this pilot is experiencing now, is he can't get all of the landing gear down, three down and locked. Is that correct?
KING: He cannot get all three down, as I understand it. The right main gear is about a 45 degree angle.
HARRIS: All right, John, so I'm trying to do a little perspective shift here. Put us in the mind of this pilot now. Who is he talking to? Who is he getting or she getting instructions from at the present time?
KING: Well, actually, the pilot is getting instructions from everyone in the world. And so, what you have to do...
HARRIS: A lot of free information. Is that what you're saying to me?
KING: You get too much. Yes. So, you have to manage who you're going to talk to. Everybody wants to talk to you in an emergency.
So, the nice thing that's about this is there's plenty of time. He was going to do a trip that is about four hours and 20 minutes to Toronto. So, he has got four hours and 20 minutes or a little less because he's at lower altitude to solve this problem.
He could talk to every expert at Gulfstream that there ever was. He could talk to maintenance people. He can arrange for the emergency crash fire rescue people. So, this pilot's got plenty of time to get all his ducks in a row before he lands the aircraft.
HARRIS: And John, let me ask you what this pilot and the crew member on board are taking care of the passengers. What is being said--to what degree do the passengers on board know exactly their situation?
KING: Well, if I were the captain I would tell them everything. And, also, I would tell them that situations like this don't very often, if ever, result in injury to people on board the aircraft.
But, of course, you would prepare the people. You would have them get into brace position, so that they don't have to -- that their heads don't accelerate on landing. So, you put them in a brace position, so that they're not going to move on landing.
Get them ready for it. You would prepare them to evacuate the cockpit. Tell them the emergency procedures. Ask them to look out the runway to see what's out there before they leave the cockpit.
So, you would do your best to prepare those passengers to make sure that they were ready, but I would at the same time be assuring them that really there is not much likelihood of a problem here.
HARRIS: Got you.
John, stand by for just a second for us. We want to talk about the conditions over at Portland International Airport.
Bonnie Schneider in the CNN Weather Center is with us now.
And Bonnie I know you have got maps. I know you've got all kind of tools up there that will give us the best sense of what the conditions are like on the ground and in the air there in Portland.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, METEOROLOGIST: Well, Tony, right now winds are out of the west at seven miles per hour.
But what's interesting, even though you're getting that westerly wind, some of the winds occasionally have an easterly component, and that brings in some drier air. And that's why the visibility has been fluctuating so much at the Portland International Airport.
Just a couple of hours ago we were reporting visibility at seven miles. Then literally within 25 minutes, the fog rolled back in, and visibility was down to less than half a mile.
Right now there's still reports of fog and mist with visibility at three quarters of an inch--three quarters, excuse me, of a mile. So, visibility is definitely on the improvement.
But, what is happening for Portland right now, is it is very intermittent. Until we get into the later afternoon hours when the sun is bright and we start to really see that fog permanently burn off fog. And even reports of drizzle could be a problem.
Though looking at our satellite perspective, we are enduring at least clear skies right now. The clouds are away. And the forecast for Portland actually does call for sunshine throughout the day today, and you can see the clouds are staying well to the north.
And areas to the south of Portland and pretty much around the city are reporting sunshine. And we're looking at temperatures into the 50's.
Now, as we look at the latest conditions here, just south as I mentioned. This is real time data. We're getting sunshine. Temperatures have warmed up from about 34 earlier to 40 degrees, and the winds are still very, very light.
And the reason that we have been seeing these light winds really kind of coincide with the foggy conditions that we've seen. When you have light winds that really does allow the fog to development.
And until we get to the latter afternoon hours I don't think we'll being seeing perfectly clear skies and more visibility for Portland.
Once again, they are reporting three quarters of a mile visibility. Not the best situation, but a changing one, changing one really from hour to hour.
As we can take a look now, it looks like clear skies, but remember we still have some clouds that can pop up on and off throughout much of the morning. The weather there is really, really fickle, and it does kind of change very quickly, which mean the pilots will be watching that for their visibility--Tony.
HARRIS: OK.
Bonnie, appreciate it.
And once again, John King is on the line with us, of King schools, and John is a flight instructor.
And, John, let me ask you. What is go time for you? You're up there. You're flying this jet. You've got a beautiful piece of equipment around you. You know its abilities now. What is go time? What are the conditions that dictate go time?
KING: Well, time is on your side. And what I would do is get the airplane down to about 45 minutes of fuel remaining to get the airplane as light as possible. Then I would have to make my final choice, as to which airport I would go to.
I certainly would not want to go into Portland with low visibility there, but I would prefer to have that longer runway of 11,000 feet at Portland. The runways are the same width at both Portland and Hillsboro.
So, I would just use time as my friend, and make this last as long as I could, and who knows, there is a chance maybe I could make the air come from the left or right and get that landing gear down. Just everything is on my favor with time.
HARRIS: And John, we're just sort of projecting forward here just a bit. As we're watching the jet come in, will it be absolutely obvious to us that everything is going absolutely as it should? And what is the first thing you'll be looking for to indicate to you? Because with your eye you'll know before we do that things are either going very well or poorly.
KING: Well, first of all, you'd like to see if that landing gear, by chance, is down or all of them are completely up. And the odds are going to be that there's something mechanically that's broken there, and if it's not fixed by now it's probably not going to get any better.
So, that gear will probably be hanging down at a 45 degree angle, but everything up until now as far as the pilot is concerned, is completely normal.
So, what I would do if I was the captain is bring that airplane down to the runway touch right dead on the center line, and then you can use aerodynamic controls to hold that right wing off the ground as long as you can.
And you use those aerodynamic controls until you slow to the point where they're no longer effective. And then you let it touch. Now, at this point, you don't have any brakes on the right side.
HARRIS: Right.
KING: But you do have brakes on the left side. So, what you would do is match the drag from the right side with your brakes on the left side as that wheel--that wind touches the runway.
And if you do it right, if you do it right, the nose wheel is going to be on the center line when you've completed your landing run.
HARRIS: You don't want that right wing to touch down prematurely is sound likes to me.
KING: You would like to hold it off as long as you could, just simply you'd like to avoid all the sparks and all the damage that you could by just simply holding it off. So, that would be your technique. To just hold it off.
And at the last moment you're going to run out of aerodynamic effect, and it is going to fall down to the runway. You know that's going to happen.
HARRIS: Yes. That's wonderful. It gives us a visual as we watch this plane, this jet actually, come in and attempt this landing.
John, thank you. I know you're going to stand by for us.
Let's send it back over to Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Tony, thank you so much.
We'll continue to keep our eye on this aircraft. As Gulfstream 5 that is airborne right now, having issues with the landing gear. It's a Nike Corporate jet, possibly executives on board. Seven people on board, we're told.
We're going to let you know as soon as it gets ready to come in for a landing. We'll bring it to you live.
More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And, the most wanted man, dead or alive. We're going to talk about that in just a second. We'll go to Iraq.
But first, we're watching live pictures here as we continue to monitor this Gulfstream V Nike corporate jet that's airborne right now, having landing gear problems. We've been going back and forth on when exactly -- what we're trying to figure out -- when exactly this pilot is going to attempt to bring this aircraft in for a landing. We're not sure. It could be happening within this hour.
But we're keeping a close eye on the live pictures. We can't get the aircraft in range now live right now, but this is taped from earlier. You can see the landing gear issue. The nose is down, left side of the aircraft no problem. But the right side, you'll see the landing gear locked at about a 45-degree angle. So the pilot right now, you know talking with the tower, talking with his or her crew. Seven people on board, trying to figure out when, in fact, can make a landing. It should all go smoothly. That's what all our experts have been saying, from our instructors to our pilots who have flown this type of aircraft, that this is -- here we go, here's more tape from the front of that aircraft. You can actually see the right side of that landing gear locked up on the right side.
But we're monitoring this for you. And as soon as that aircraft gets ready to make a landing, don't know if it's going to be in Hillsboro, Oregon, or at Portland International Airport. I know they're trying to figure that out right now. Obviously, going for the longest runway, the widest runway to have much -- as much room as possible to bring this aircraft down if, indeed, that right side of the landing gear will not come down completely 90 degrees.
So we're following this story. We'll bring you the live pictures as soon as the pilot gets ready to land that aircraft.
Meanwhile, we are talking about the most wanted man in Iraq. Is he dead? Well, no one seems to able to say for sure after a military raid on a Baghdad home. Eight suspected insurgents were killed when that house exploded.
CNN's Nic Robertson says some of the dead are unrecognizable, and so DNA testing is being done. But experts say don't count on Abu Musab al Zarqawi being among them. A National Security Council spokesperson calls suggestions to that effect, quote, "highly unlikable and not credible."
Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has been talking with those in the know there. Barbara, what are they telling you?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, this is a tantalizing tale that just gets more and more mysterious with no final answers just yet.
It was Saturday in Mosul when U.S. and Iraqi forces approached a house that they believed insurgents were meeting in. They got into a heavy gun fight, we are told, and then the house exploded. Two U.S. servicemen apparently were killed. There were a number of injuries.
But here's where it got interesting. Of the eight insurgents inside, apparently as many as three blew themselves up. And that's a very unusual tactic when they get into these shoot-outs with insurgents. Usually the insurgents fight to the death, if you will.
So, when the insurgents blew themselves up, this really got U.S. officials rather curious. Who was in the house? Who was so concerned about the possibility of being taken alive by U.S. forces that they decided instead to blow themselves up. So, there is, at least, we are told, one corpse that they are doing DNA sampling and trying to do fingerprint matching on.
This was all on Saturday. Of course, now it's Monday night in Iraq. If there are results of those tests, we are not being told what they are. And there are two widely divergent views in Washington. There are official spokesmen who say it's very unlikely Zarqawi was there, that he wouldn't be in Mosul because it is a place where the U.S. has a lot of good intelligence and he would risk being caught.
But I must tell you, there are other officials out there who are very familiar with the thinking of senior U.S. military commanders, who say they are still, still hopeful that maybe it could be Zarqawi.
And there is one other very interesting wrinkle. This one set of remains, this one corpse, whatever it was, it apparently led the U.S. to go to a another unnamed government and try and get some DNA samples of somebody that they think that corpse may be. So, it's all still very tantalizing -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Interesting story. Barbara Starr, thank you so much.
And in with the talking points, out with the tirades. In the in- or-out debate over U.S. troops in Iraq, the emotional, sometimes personal, almost physical debate of late Friday night in Congress, has given way to clear-headed speeches on well-entrenched positions. From Dick Cheney, who last week branded some war criticism reprehensible and dishonest, this attempt to calm the partisan rancor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Recently my friend and former colleague Jack Murtha called for a complete withdrawal of American forces now serving in Iraq with a drawdown to begin at once. I disagree with Jack and believe his proposal would not serve the best interest of this nation.
But he's a good man, a marine, a patriot, and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion. What is not legitimate and what I will, again, say, is dishonest and reprehensible is the suggestion by some U.S. senators that that president of the United States or any member of his administration purposely misled the American people on pre-war intelligence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And among the administration's critics and Iraq war skeptics, Democratic Senator Joe Biden is front and center. After Cheney spoke, Biden said this to the Council on Foreign Relations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: By misrepresenting the facts, by misunderstanding Iraq and misleading the war, I believe the administration has brought us to the verge of a national security debacle. As a result, many Americans have already concluded that we cannot salvage Iraq, and that we should bring our troops home and bring them home as soon as possible, as my grandfather would say, if not immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Now, the touchy topic of torture. As the debate intensifies over CIA interrogation tactics, CIA Chief Porter Goss insists that torture is not part of the equation. "USA Today" quotes Goss saying, "This agency does not do torture. Torture does not work. We use lawful capabilities to collect vital information and we do it in a variety of unique and innovative ways, all of which are legal and none of which are torture."
While the official U.S. policy forbids torture, is there an unofficial policy that takes a different view? Former CIA director Stansfield Turner has already called Dick Cheney the vice president for torture. And now a man who's served as former secretary of state, Colin Powell's chief of staff, points another accusing finger. Retired U.S. Colonel Larry Wilkerson believes Cheney and Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld are making decisions about prisoner interrogation, decisions that the president himself might not know about.
Speaking on CNN's "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer, Wilkerson minced no words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY WILKERSON, FMR. STATE DEPT. CHIEF OF STAFF: There's no question in my mind that we did. There's no question in my mind that we may still be doing it. And there's no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated: in the vice president of the United States' office. And his implementer was Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And for their part, Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman General Peter Pace disdain Wilkerson's charges. Also speaking on "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer, they said they had recollection of seeing him at any meetings with Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I can't imagine he was at a meeting with the vice president or me or anyone else at a senior level.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He was the chief of staff of the secretary of the state.
RUMSFELD: Fine, that's fine. But in terms of having first-hand information, I just can't imagine that he does. And it's also -- the allegation is ridiculous.
PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: I was in every meeting with the Joint Chiefs, I was in every meeting combatant commanders. I went to the White House multiple times to meet with the National Security Council and with the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILKERSON: Meeting with the combatant commanders. I went to the White House multiple times to meet with the National Security Council and with the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Wilkerson says he's not surprised that Rumsfeld and Pace didn't remember him. They made my point for me. Decisions were not made in the principle's process, he goes on to say. The deputy's process and the policy coordinating committee process, they were not made in that process.
Of course, he talked on "AMERICAN MORNING" this morning saying he doesn't understand that they would say that they don't remember him or know him, because he said that they have all worked together in the past.
Well, straight ahead, grim warnings. Images of what's believed to be a text message from the suspected mall shooter in Tacoma, Washington. We're going to have a live report and we're monitoring also, as you can see on the screen, live pictures from Oregon, as a Gulfstream V is trying to make a landing. Landing gear is stuck on the right side.
We're following that for you, too. We'll let you know what happens. We'll bring it to you live once that plane, that Nike corporate jet comes in for a landing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: We're still following that developing story out of Hillsboro, Oregon. You can see here by the various live pictures, we're following a Gulfstream V that's having landing gear problems. It's a Nike corporate jet, we believe there may be high-ranking executive on board.
You can see that by this tight shot, this freeze frame of the video, that the nose, obviously, the landing gear is down there. Left side is OK. It's the right side where the landing gear is locked in about a 45-degree angle.
So, right now, the pilot has been, gosh, working this scenario for about two hours now. Making, circling the airport there at Hillsboro, Oregon, not sure if it's going to land there on that runway or at Portland International Airport. We know there are seven people on board.
There you go, you can see the live pictures, various touch and go scenarios. The pilot trying to figure out how, indeed, he or she is going to make that landing and balance that with getting as much fuel out of the tank as possible. To alleviate any issues of an explosion, because of fuel in the tank.
But according to our experts, everything should be OK. This pilot is doing everything by standard operating procedure and we hope to bring you a safe landing as soon as that aircraft gets ready to touch down. We're following its every move airborne and we'll bring it to you live when it happens.
Meanwhile, we're talking about a number of other things today, including the quote, unique and innovative, but legal way to interrogate.
That's how CIA chief Porter Goss describes approved prisoner interrogation methods. But what exactly does this slippery phrase mean and who does the interpreting?
Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, wants to spell it out in a new amendment that says, quote, "no individual in the custody, or under the physical control of the United States government, regardless of nationality or physical location, shall be subject to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."
Retired Army General David Grange joins me from Chicago, to talk about what the military allows, what's officially off-limits and why interrogation is such a tricky business. Tricky business, indeed. You know about it first hand, general. First of all, good to see you.
BRIG. GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Same.
PHILLIPS: And let me ask you, first of all, tell us why John McCain -- what is the difference between the John McCain amendment and what is already in place militarily, the Geneva Convention.
GRANGE: Well, I think part of it is just more focus on the verbiage that's used. But you're still going to have the situation where, what's the definition of inhumane? You know, there's a lot of techniques that are used that are not physically or, let's say, physically abusive. But, in some ways, maybe mentally abusive.
In other words, lights for a long period of time or loud music of certain types. Certain loud music and certain types that I would think would be torture. So, it depends on the definition of what you mean by torture, inhumane treatment, et cetera.
PHILLIPS: Well, how do you define what is OK and what isn't, because it seems like it would be a -- you'd be operating on a case- by-case basis, and you're also talking about terrorists that don't care about dying. And, so, you know, how far can you really go with somebody that, like a suicide bomber, that you might have been able to capture or an Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? It just seems like such a gray area.
GRANGE: Well, I think it is. I think the best way to sort it out is like this. I mean, you can't say, OK, for certain people, we can torture because we'll save lives in the end, so it's OK. You cannot be in a position to designate certain categories of people.
What you have to do, it's a moral dilemma, there are tough decisions sometimes. It boils down to judgment. And if it's going to be some type of interrogation that has lasting implications, mentally and physical, then it's probably inhumane.
And so, I think it boils down to that type of judgment in certain cases that we've seen. In Iraq, obviously, that judgment was abused. In other cases, I know it's followed very closely to the guidelines, and no one would dare go across this gray line, even though it's sometimes confusing. You have some pretty basic things. I don't think I would ever have a problem with that.
PHILLIPS: You have obviously been in a situation where you have had to interrogate someone, right?
GRANGE: I haven't personally interrogated anyone, but I know of an interrogation that took place in the field of battle or operations that I was a part of.
PHILLIPS: Could you think of one?
GRANGE: I must be honest -- do what?
PHILLIPS: Could you think of a situation that you were in then, where -- did you oversee? Were you in charge of soldiers that had to do the interrogating?
GRANGE: No, I was not. But, I do know of adjacent units that did interrogate prisoners of war, and I don't know of any situations where they were abused or didn't hear of any anyway.
It's, I tell you, if you compare the United States military to other armies in the world, for the most case, I mean, we have a moral high ground. There's no doubt about it. I'm very proud of that.
Plus, you go through, you go through training yourself different levels of training, and we won't get into some of the specifics in the more advanced levels of how you resist interrogation if you're captured.
And so, you have a sense of what could happen to you, physically and mentally, and you keep that in mind. If the roles are reversed. Personally, I'm very proud of what I've seen in our military and how it's handled.
PHILLIPS: General Grange, always a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much.
GRANGE: Thank you.
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