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Interview With Army Secretary Francis Harvey; Peace Activists Arrested Near President Bush's Ranch Yesterday; The Padilla Case

Aired November 24, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Here are the stories that we're working on for you right now.
Balloon accident. Two parade watchers hurt at New York's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

We're following that story.

Holidays far from home. When will these American troops get to leave Iraq? More of my interview with the secretary of the Army.

And holiday head start. Why eager shoppers in growing numbers are snapping up the bargains while you're eating turkey.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

The food says Thanksgiving, but everything else just said another day in the fight for Iraq. Car bombs and IEDs provided a bloody backdrop to the fleeting festivities savored by Americans far from home.

As many as 30 people were killed today outside a hospital in Mahmoudiya, inside the so-called Triangle of Death, and top troops from Task Force Baghdad were on hand. The military says the hospital was probably the target.

The GIs were assessing the hospital for upgrades, by one account, handing out toys to children by another. Among the dead, Iraqi guards and civilians, including children and the bomber. Four Americans were hurt, but the hospital was mostly unscathed.

Hours later, a bomb went off in the nearby city of Hilla. At least three deaths reported in a crowded market near police headquarters. Reportedly, a car bomb remotely set off.

Same vicinity, more violence. Two U.S. soldiers shot to death yesterday, two more killed today in a roadside bombing. Those bring the American military death toll to 2,104 men and women.

Last hour we played a portion of my interview with the U.S. Army secretary, Francis Harvey, who's feasting with the troops today in several parts of Iraq. Well, later in our conversation I asked him how it would be possible to know to bring troops home, as some on the home front are demanding, when the mission remains unclear to so many people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANCIS HARVEY, U.S. ARMY SECRETARY: The president has a very good success strategy. The mission is to hand the responsibility for the security of Iraq over to the Iraqi forces, security forces. And as I indicated, that is progressing quite well.

As I said, we've increased the number 50 percent, and that one- third of them are operating on their own, and up to 70 percent are operating in parallel with us. So I think the soldiers know the mission. And if the progress continues, the secretary, Secretary of State Rice said last week -- I think she said it very well -- that clearly, the levels will come down.

The timetable will be certainly dictated by conditions on the ground. But we know what the mission is, and we're making solid progress towards accomplishing that mission.

PHILLIPS: And you had time to spend with the Iraqi soldiers. What did you say to them, Mr. Secretary? And what did they say to you?

HARVEY: I had a briefing by General Bashir (ph), and he told me that -- he showed me his equipment, showed me his organization, showed me his training. And I certainly encouraged him to continue to make progress and slowly and methodically take over the primary mission of defending the insurgency.

And he took -- he looked me in the eye with a big smile on his face and said, "Sir, we got it. We're ready to go. We're going to do it."

We're going to win here because, like you, we enjoy the peace and freedom. We don't want to go back to the former regime where people were oppressed. And we know it's important, and we're -- we're up to it and we're going to do it. So that's a two-star general talking to me.

PHILLIPS: It sounds like this good progress.

And Mr. Secretary, let me also ask you about the protesters at the president's ranch today, antiwar protesters. What do you say to them on this Thanksgiving? And what do you say to moms like Cindy Sheehan?

HARVEY: Well, you know, I extend my sympathy to the death of her son. One death is one too many, and I'm sorry she feels that way.

It's America. I totally disagree with her point of view. And I often meet with the parents of soldiers who were killed in action, and my heartfelt sympathy goes out to all of them.

But as you well know, Kyra, not every parent of a soldier that has died in action feels the way Cindy Sheehan does. A lot of them, the ones I talk to, even if they disagree of the war, they're still supportive of the soldiers, because those soldiers were just like their sons and daughters.

PHILLIPS: Well, you remind me of a young captain that I interviewed. I actually met him on an airplane. He lost his leg to an IED, and I asked him if he were bitter -- if he was bitter, and he said no, he still believes in the mission and what he did, even though he lost his leg.

So let me ask you about the IEDs. You're highly involved in making sure these men and women are prepared to deal with the enemy and the tactics. What is going on right now to deal with IEDs? "The Army Times" reporting the highest percentage of deaths are because of these IEDs.

HARVEY: There's no question that the highest percentage of deaths are from IEDs. But in that context, the number of attacks are going down over the last month or so.

We continue to find 30 to 40 percent of the IEDs -- we call them -- render them safe. As you know, no soldier goes out of a forward operating bases unless he's in an armored vehicle.

We also have a number of technology developments going on that I quite frankly can't talk about in detail, but we've got some new sensor technology that will be valuable in finding them and dismantling them before they go off. We have what we call a countermeasure technology which prevents them from being triggered. That is -- that is -- that is partially effective.

So we have a whole spectrum of technologies, including armor, that is intended to defeat this threat.

PHILLIPS: My final question, this Thanksgiving Day, what are you giving thanks for?

HARVEY: Let me return to where I started. I'm giving thanks for the wonderful young member men and women that I'm about to have Thanksgiving dinner with. I'm continually inspired by the discipline, the professionalism and the courage of our soldiers, and it's just -- it's just wonderful to be with them.

I get an opportunity to find out whether what we're doing back in the Department of Army in terms of training and equipping and organizing and supporting is being effective out here. I always learn something from them, and I go back and we -- and we improve what were given to them to meet their needs.

So it's always a great day for me. And Happy Thanksgiving to you in the United States.

And again, let's all join together and thank our soldiers, our sailors, our airmen and Marines for what they do, for what they do in serving this country.

PHILLIPS: Secretary of the Army Francis Harvey, it was an honor to interview you today, sir. Thank you so much.

HARVEY: Thank you. And Happy Thanksgiving, Kyra.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, the commander in chief chose not to reprise a surprise Iraq visit of Thanksgiving 2003. Instead, reaching out by telephone to 10 GIs from every branch of the service.

CNN's Elaine Quijano spending her holiday on the outskirts of the president's ranch, as are some uninvited critics of the war.

Elaine, why don't you update us on the protesting situation, first.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Kyra. We'll tell you about the protesters in just a minute.

First, on that phone call that you mentioned, the president delivering some Thanksgiving greetings by phone, talking to 10 members of the United States military. Now, these are service members from various branches, including the Coast Guard, the Army, Navy and Air Force.

We don't have names or a break down of that list. But there you can see the president on the phone. We're told that the members were chosen by the Department of Defense. Among them, a person serving in Afghanistan, several in Iraq, and one on a ship at sea.

Now, the president told them they were patriots and asked them to pass along his wishes to fellow service members.

As for the rest of the day, the president went on a bike ride with his chief of staff, Andy Card, and is looking forward to spending the rest of the day with his family.

Now, the protesters that you mentioned, yesterday there were about 12 protesters who turned out near the president's ranch. They pitched tents and were trying to camp out along the road there. And their arrests -- 12 people arrested -- happened in light of a new county ordinance here in McLennan County, essentially banning parking and camping alongside the road in certain areas.

But those demonstrators not only trying to send a message to President Bush, but also to the local county commissioners. They feel they have a First Amendment right to be there.

But according to one protester who was arrested, they are now facing possible fines of up to $2,500 and up to 180 days in jail -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. You -- and I'm trying to remember if I asked you about Cindy Sheehan. She was supposed to be at this protest, right, but had some sort of family emergency?

QUIJANO: That's right. Emergency, that's right.

Cindy Sheehan, of course, is the antiwar activist who became a very familiar name in the month of August. That is when she led large groups of demonstrators here to Crawford to protest against the war.

Now, Cindy Sheehan's son, of course, Casey, was killed in Iraq. And she has demanded answers from President Bush about why her son died. But Cindy Sheehan expected to arrive here in Texas later tonight to join with protesters who are gathering here -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: OK. Elaine Quijano there at the president's ranch.

Thanks, Elaine.

Well, in the war on terror, this week's decision to charge suspect Jose Padilla with belonging to a terrorist cell has raised some eyebrows. That's because for three years the government has said that Padilla was involved in even more serious activities, including a plot to detonate a radioactive dirty bomb.

So why did the government decide not to charge Padilla with plotting a dirty bomb attack and apartment bombings? Wasn't that what he was accused of in the first place?

Now more to talk more about the charges, CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor.

What is the answer to that, David?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there are a lot of reasons, but one key one law enforcement officials are now acknowledging is that such a trial would have required testimony or affidavits of some sort from top al Qaeda operatives now held by the CIA in unidentified locations overseas.

Those officials declined to name who they are talking about, but other officials have previously identified Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, who was the 9/11 mastermind, as the prisoners who first told U.S. intelligence officials about these plots and Padilla's role in them.

Now, the government doesn't want them to testify because it would disrupt the effort to get more intelligence out of them, and also because officials believe that the defense attorneys for Padilla would inevitably charge that information was extracted from those two individuals using torture.

PHILLIPS: Well, has the CIA used torture against them?

ENSOR: Well, it depends on how you define torture. The CIA interrogates prisoners under rules that were approved by the White House. And the president has said the U.S. doesn't use torture. But the techniques used have reportedly included some pretty unpleasant and now controversial ones. For example, making the prisoners feel as if they're drowning.

Present and former officials say, though, that the harsh techniques have produced intelligence that has saved American lives.

PHILLIPS: So the government doesn't want all the other stuff to come out in court?

ENSOR: That's right. And Padilla, apparently, may have said something about his role in the dirty bomb and apartment plots while a prisoner in the military brig, but he didn't have access to a lawyer at that time. So any such evidence couldn't be produced in a civilian court. Yet, of course, that is where as an American citizen he's going to stand trial under the lesser charges of support for terrorism that were, as you mentioned, made earlier this week -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: David Ensor, thank you.

Macy's parade mishap. A big balloon accident spins a couple of bystanders -- or sends a couple of bystanders, rather, to the hospital. We've been covering this story. This amateur video just in to us.

Pretty amazing pictures. But so far, both people that were injured we're told they're OK.

The news keeps coming. We're going to keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: And a quick update on that mishap at today's Macy's parade in New York. Mayor Michael Bloomberg says that the ropes attached to one of the big inflated balloons became entangled with a lamppost in Times Square.

You see it happen right here on this amateur video. Part of the light fixture fell to the ground, and then two people were injured.

Bloomberg says an 11-year-old girl has been treated for a head injury, and her sister, who is 26, hurt her shoulder. The mayor tells reporters that the lamppost was redesigned after a previous accident involving a parade balloon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK: It looks like it was the actual top of the light pole, which was designed back in 1996, '97 for this location, knowing we're going to have the parade every year. You take a look at most light poles, they go out into the street. This was designed to run parallel to the street so nothing would catch on it. And we'll have to take a look and see whether in retrospect that was the right decision that was made back then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, Mayor Bloomberg describes the victims' injuries as not serious or life-threatening, but he says one of the victims will be held overnight for observation.

And for some, this day of Thanksgiving is also a day to help the less fortunate. One example, this year's Feed the Hungry and Homeless Dinner in Atlanta includes a special invite for Hurricane Katrina evacuees.

Several thousand evacuees are expected to join the 15,000 or so who usually attend. The Gulf Coast natives will no doubt appreciate the 300 Cajun-style turkeys added to this year's menu.

And if you recognize some of those faces, that was our morning crew, "AMERICAN MORNING" crew on the weekends helping out.

Now, a documentary called "Bullets in the Hood" recently brought judges at a major film festival to their feet. We invite you into step into Terrance's world and see why so many are cheering for him.

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Growing up in the rough projects in one of New York's more dangerous neighborhoods, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Terrance Fissher had already learned that sometimes a single moment can change your life forever.

TERRANCE FISCHER, FILMMAKER: Yes, right here we've got one of the murals right here. This is my boy Castro.

TUCHMAN (on camera): How long ago was he killed?

FISCHER: He has been killed a couple years -- it's been, like, a couple years right now.

TUCHMAN (voice over): In the inner city, murals often commemorate those who died in the streets.

FISCHER: This is Jamarel (ph) right here, AKA Joff (ph). This is my boy Pop (ph) right here. My boy Pop, AKA Stoppo (ph).

TUCHMAN: Terrance knows all too well about gun violence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The unarmed teen was shot and killed by a New York City housing cop at around 1:00 this morning.

TUCHMAN: Terrance's close friend was that unarmed teen. He and Timothy Stansbury (ph) had been friends and neighbors since elementary school.

FISCHER: He was a chilled dude, funny person, make you laugh all day.

TUCHMAN: A few months before Timothy was killed, Terrance had enrolled in a community documentary film program. He began shooting this film about gun violence featuring teens from his neighborhood.

FISCHER: See this man? 22 -- 1,900 (ph). Man, I can't get no better than that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have the gun in your possession, how do you feel? How does the gun make you feel? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all want to show me how it feels?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're lucky that wasn't loaded.

TUCHMAN: And in this film, Terrance offered this advice...

FISCHER: Wow. Do you see what a man can do to another man's life by just pulling the trigger? That's all he has to do.

TUCHMAN: Terrance had no idea how prophetic his words would become. Timothy was killed just after that scene was filmed. And especially shocking, the circumstances behind the shooting.

(on camera): On a January night in 2004, Terrance was on this rooftop with his friends Timothy and Lashawn (ph). They were walking roof to roof, which is not an unusual thing to do in some urban neighborhoods.

They were at a party a few apartments down. They climbed up to up the roof to come here to Terrance's apartment. Once they reached the roof of his apartment, they walked down a stairwell to get some CDs. They got the CDs and started climbing back up the stairs.

Lives would change seconds later.

FISCHER: We was laughing, giggling, talking real loud. The next thing you know, a door just opened, and just seeing a cop just put his arm into the door like at least about, like, right here and he shot in.

I heard no voice. The only thing I heard was a shot, and then I heard Tim screaming after that. It was a nightmare. I thought it was a nightmare.

The cops shot him. He was 19 years old. I thought that he shouldn't have been a victim of gun violence at such a young age.

TUCHMAN: At the time, no one, not even the New York City Police Department, could find a reason why this New York City Housing cop, Richard Neri, pulled the trigger before investigating what was on the other side of the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the facts we have gathered, there appears to be no justification for this shooting.

TUCHMAN: Officer Neri did not want to talk on camera, but has said it was an accident, that it was dark and he pulled the trigger unintentionally. But the fact is Officer Neri killed an innocent teenager.

Ironically, the victim's mother has been an employee of the New York City Police Department for almost 15 years.

PHYLLIS CLAYBORNE, TIMOTHY STANSBURY'S MOM: What happened? Why he had to go like this? TUCHMAN: The death of Timothy dramatically changed Terrance's film project. He and his co-producer Daniel Howard decided to make Timothy's story the main thrust of the film, and to do it through Terrance's eyes.

DANIEL HOWARD, FILMMAKER: We thought that it would be powerful if we could get all of this to show a sense of reality.

TUCHMAN: While filming the community's reaction, a grand jury convened on the fate of Officer Richard Neri. The decision? There was not enough evidence for an indictment.

Terrance and many others in Bed-Stuy were shocked.

FISCHER: We could have did anything. We could have got together and really started a riot. But we chose not to.

TUCHMAN: On the first anniversary of Timothy's death Terrance attended a candlelight memorial in Bed-Stuy. Days before, he had attended a screening of his documentary, "Bullets in the Hood: A Bed- Stuy Story," at the Sundance Film Festival.

Not expecting to win an award, he left before the winners were announced.

FISCHER: I didn't even know nothing about Sundance. I'm like, where are we, Sundance? All right. And so I ran up on it, like, wow, I didn't even know it was like this.

TUCHMAN: And then Terrance got a call he couldn't believe. They had won the Sundance Special Jury Prize, an acknowledgement from the film committee that picking up a camera could be more powerful than picking up a gun.

FISCHER: This is the last mural right here, Timothy Stansbury, AKA Drag.

Drag, I love you, dog. You're my heart, man.

TUCHMAN: A true friend who took a single tragic moment and turned it into a lasting tribute.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, New York.

PHILLIPS: Well, what will people do to get their hands on an Xbox? A lot of things, I'm told. Some of the answers may surprise you. All the news you need before you start your holiday shopping, LIVE FROM is on it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Hope you rest up after you eat up today, especially those of you planning to get up early to power shop. The day after Thanksgiving, AKA Black Friday, tomorrow is the official start to what nervous American retailers live and die for, a hopefully busy and profitable holiday shopping season. Many malls and big box stores will open long before dawn with deep discounts, in-store promotions and anything to get spenders and their checkbooks out of bed.

We won't go into what's hot and what's not discussion, but Microsoft has to got to be happy about the response of the Xbox 360, and not just from the die-hard gamer geeks. The game system has sold out at stores across the country, and we're hearing bizarre reports on how far some people will go to get one.

Listen to this. Everything from store stampedes, gunpoint robberies. and we've even seen models offered on eBay with bids upwards to triple the retail price.

Well, forget Thanksgiving dinner. We know that most of you are really hungry for a good deal, right? And retailers have cooked up several gimmicks to satisfy that appetite.

Here's CNN's Gerri Willis from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRAD PAISLEY, SINGER: Hit the hay, darlin'.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Want a phone call from country music singer Brad Paisley? All you have to do is go to Target.com and sign up. On its Web site, Target is offering prerecorded celebrity phone calls to shoppers. Sign up, and the likes of Brad Paisley will buzz you Thanksgiving night and tell you to go to bed.

PAISLEY: Take your boots off and let me lull to you to sleep.

WILLIS: Or model Carolyn Murphy will call you Friday morning to wake you up.

CAROLYN MURPHY, MODEL: Bet you've never been woken up by a swimsuit cover girl.

WILLIS: So you won't miss Target's two-day Thanksgiving sale.

(on camera): It's just one of the many gimmicks retailers are using to get you shopping after you've had your turkey and stuffing. The National Retail Federation predicts 130 million Americans will hit the malls on Black Friday, so named because the Friday after Thanksgiving is often the most profitable. That's when retailers' bottom lines often swing out of the red and into the black.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a huge momentum and inertia built in to holiday spending. I mean, it's determined by such basic human instincts and drives that, you know, the most likely forecast is that holiday spending this year is going to go the same way it did last year.

WILLIS: This year, stores like Sam's Club are opening 5:00 Friday morning and serving breakfast. Kmart isn't even waiting that long. Its stores are opening after most people have Thanksgiving dinner, from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. And Macy's is reportedly going to pay you to shop. The store will give away $1 million in gift cards on Friday worth anywhere from $10 to $500.

If you'd rather shop from home, Web sites like Google's shopping site Froogle.com allow you to shop locally, even check the inventory of stores in your area.

And BlackFridayAds.com offers a one-stop preview for many deals on Black Friday, both online and in the stores.

I'm Gerri Willis, and that's the "Bottom Line."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And straight ahead, Jordan's King Abdullah calls for an all-out war against terrorists. A report from the kingdom straight ahead.

The news keeps coming. We're going to keep bringing it to you all afternoon. Happy Thanksgiving.

A quick LIVE FROM break right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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