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President Bush Visits U.S.-Mexico Border; Immigration Debate; Escaped Prisoner in Atlanta Not Considered Armed and Dangerous; Sexuality and the Church
Aired November 29, 2005 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia, I'm Kyra Phillips. Here's the stories that we're working on for you right now.
President Bush on the border, walking the line between fighting illegal immigration and reform. We're on the story.
Held hostage. Al-Jazeera airs pictures showing kidnapped aid workers in Iraq. We're investigating.
Engaged in the priesthood. The Vatican's much-anticipated statement is out. A bishop and a Catholic reformer join me to talk about it.
All that and more right now on LIVE FROM.
Presidential visit to a broken border. One day after announcing a new drive against illegal immigration, President Bush took a firsthand look at the troubled area. He visited the U.S.-Mexican border. Accompanied by Border Patrol agents, the president rode along the Rio Grande River in El Paso, Texas.
Mr. Bush told reporters his administration will do what it takes to curb the flow of illegal immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What we've done is we have boosted the amount of money available to our -- to enforce this border. We're adding agents. We've added agents since I've become the president. We're adding more agents as a result of the bill I just signed. And we're adding infrastructure to make the cities secure, as well as the rural parts of our border secure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Now, along with his proposal to tighten border control, President Bush also wants to set up a temporary worker program. That's touched off some dissent within his own parties.
CNN's Kathleen Koch joins me now from the White House.
And Kathleen, there's talk about troubles in Iraq, there's talk about rebuilding New Orleans, and the growing deficit. Now the Bush administration focused on immigration. Why? KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the White House believes those issues are obviously very important. Their polling shows that Americans are still very, very concerned about the issue of border security, which the president, as you just pointed out, has really been discussing in great detail over the last couple of days. But it also gives the president the opportunity to make a renewed push for this guest worker plan that is very controversial.
He's really had no success in advancing it in Congress. Not only is it opposed by Democrats, but many Republicans, conservatives especially, members of his own base, who believes it -- who believe that it actually coddles illegal immigrants and puts them on the path to citizenship, law breakers on the path to citizenship. And they believe that that is not acceptable. So it's a divisive issues, but the president believes the program is important to tackling the problem of illegal immigration.
PHILLIPS: Tomorrow he'll be in Annapolis talking about the war in Iraq this time. A lot of people wondering, is he go be to address the "T" word, as Bill Schneider says, timetable, on when troops should be pulled out of Iraq?
KOCH: No, Kyra. We're told there will be no discussion of a specific timetable, and no specific numbers about -- numbers of troops that could be pulled out, drawn down from Iraq.
The president, though, will talk about a plan. And White House spokesman Scott McClellan says what will be released beforehand is something called the "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq."
Administration officials tell CNN this 20-plus page document was actually drafted back in 2003. And it outlines broad concepts and goals, but it, too, is short on specifics.
Still, the White House believes it's important to release it to reassure Americans and reassure Congress that the administration does have a game plan that it's following. That it's not simply reacting to unfolding events in Iraq -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now, where is the president heading this afternoon?
KOCH: Well, the president is heading out to do some fund- raising. Yes, his approval ratings may be low, but there are still a number of Republicans who believe that he can really draw them in and draw in the money for these lawmakers who are up for reelection.
So this afternoon, in about an hour, he'll be having lunch -- attending a luncheon in Denver for Congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave. Now, he attended yesterday a fund-raiser for Jon Kyl of Arizona. And again, the lawmakers believe he can really bring in the cash.
Now, Marilyn Musgrave is very vulnerable. She barely won reelection in 2004, so the White House is doing what it can to keep her in office and help Republicans hold on to the majority in the House.
PHILLIPS: Kathleen Koch at the White House.
Thanks so much.
KOCH: You bet.
PHILLIPS: Well, the president's plan to crack down on illegal immigration may not be easy to carry out because of various political problems tugging at him.
CNN Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley has the story now behind the borderlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): An unpopular war, economic doubts, a president in political trouble, marquee party names in legal trouble, and an election coming up. The only thing missing from the Republican misery index is an interparty dispute.
Oh, wait. There is the matter of those 10 to 11 million illegal immigrants living and working in the U.S.
REP. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: We desperately need a guest worker plan and recognize we do need the labor. They're here, and we have to deal with those who are here illegally now.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: But frankly, we are at a point in this nation's history where we cannot afford to keep our borders porous in order to provide employers with cheap labor. I mea, it just can't happen anymore.
CROWLEY: It is Republicans versus other Republicans as the president pushes a border security plan which, if he can pull it off, could bring a little oomph to an administration that needs some. Border security is a gimme; everybody wants more of it. It is the fate of those who have already crossed the border illegally that has the president juggling inside his own party.
Pro-business elements want a lenient guest worker program
FLAKE: If you really want a secure border, you've got to have a legal avenue for workers to come and then return home. The president recognizes that, and that's why he's on the right track.
CROWLEY: Many conservatives are more focused on better patrol at the border and a crackdown inside the country.
TANCREDO: Just enforce the law, is that really such an alien concept? Enforce the law. If you do not give people a job because they are here illegally, those folks go home. You do not have to "round people up."
CROWLEY: Add to Republican crosscurrents Latin-Americans, a huge and growing voting bloc sensitive to anything that looks like immigrant bashing, and what you have is a president trying to find the sweet spot in an issue that has legal, political and cultural implications.
BUSH: The American people should not have to choose between a welcoming society and a lawful society. We can have both at the same time.
CROWLEY (on camera): Most polls show immigration reform is not uppermost in the minds of voters. But conservatives disagree. The president's credibility is on the line, said one conservative. Another suggested that if the president does not follow through with tough illegal immigration reform, conservatives might sit out the next election.
It is difficult to know whether that's a threat or a bargaining chip.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, U.S. efforts to control illegal immigration are focused on the Border Patrol. And with more criminal gangs involved in smuggling operations, that has become an increasingly dangerous job.
Assaults on U.S. Border Patrol agents nearly doubled during the 12 months that ended September 30 from 349 to 687. Assaults along the Arizona and New Mexico borders alone averaged one per day.
Christian Peacemakers in the hands of Swords of Righteousness, only one of the new and terrifying kidnap dramas in Iraq graphically depicted in a video clip you're seeing here that aired on Al-Jazeera TV. Christian Peacemakers are a human rights group that's worked in Iraq for three years. Two of its members from Canada, one from America, and a 74-year-old Brit were captured on Saturday by a previously unknown group, the swords Swords of Righteousness Brigade. It's claiming that the Westerners are spies.
And then there's Susan Oschoff (ph), a German archaeologist apparently kidnapped, along with her driver, on Friday.
And just today, Iraqi police report a half a dozen Shiite pilgrims from Iran kidnapped near Balad.
Shiite shrines in that area are supposed to be offlimits to foreigners for that very reason.
Back now to Tony Harris in the newsroom. More on that inmate that was on the loose here in Atlanta, Georgia.
Tony, what's the deal?
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Kyra.
We were just -- well, let me unplug this thing and get this out of there. All right. Watching the pictures now from our affiliate WSB here in Atlanta. This story is developing right in our own backyard. Let me turn this monitor down just a bit.
Atlanta police, and we suspect, Kyra, Fulton County sheriff's deputies, are searching right now for someone who was under arrest, being transported, but who managed to get out of the van that he was being transported in and presumably to jail.
Police tell us that the prisoner is not considered armed and dangerous. You're beginning to see more and more activity in the area of Joseph Lowery Boulevard, which, Kyra, as you k now, is southwest of the city.
The person is not considered armed and dangerous. He was picked up on drug charges, possession of coke and marijuana.
Now, Kyra, you'll remember a couple of weeks ago -- it was November 10, to be exact -- you and Fred were actually working the story. There was another escape. That man actually got away from the Atlanta police as he was being transferred to the Fulton County Jail.
And what is a little more disturbing about this story is, just a couple of moments ago, we saw pictures of school buses. And Kyra, as you know, we're coming up on that hour. It's 2:09, 2:10 Eastern Time now, where kids are beginning to get out of school. So I'm sure that police would like to get this situation wrapped up as soon as possible.
More details to come, Kyra. I'm sorry I can't hear you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Tony. That's OK. No problem.
He was monitoring, of course, the affiliate there.
Well, if you don't want to start a fight with your best pal, well don't talk about religion, politics or immigration. The conversation may end up like a debate that we're going to bring you next.
LIVE FROM has got all the news that you want this afternoon.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Tracking the president right now, this video just in. The president of United States landing in Denver, Colorado. He's got a fund-raiser to attend to.
Pictures coming to us via our affiliate KUSA. As you know, he was in El Paso, Texas, talking about immigration. And then tomorrow he'll be talking about the war in Iraq in Annapolis.
Right now just a stopover in Denver, then he'll be heading back to the White House. Well, bringing up the subject of illegal immigration seems to be one of the quickest ways to start an argument these days. Well, some people say immigrants, illegal or otherwise, well, they're important to the U.S. economy. Others say illegal immigrants pose a threat to homeland security.
CNN's Lou Dobbs and Univision TV news anchor Jorge Ramos debated that issue on CNN's "THE SITUATION ROOM." Wolf Blitzer asked them about the president's proposals.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Lou, what's wrong with letting these illegal workers apply for visas, get work permits to work up to six years in this country, millions of them, making them legal workers in the United States, which is what the president is proposing?
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": After the president, Wolf, proposed in 2004 his guest worker program, which most consider an amnesty program, we saw illegal immigration rise dramatically, over 40 percent within the course of eight months into this country. Three million illegal aliens crossed our borders at just the suggestion the president put forward, ill-defined, poorly formed, really unformed.
So that's the first problem with it, especially when the issue is we're in a global war on terror and the issue is border security.
Now your third -- the lower third there, you had immigration battles. This is not about immigration. This is about illegal immigration. Like everyone else in this country who considers themselves an American, I believe strongly that this is a nation of immigrants. But legal immigration is the issue.
BLITZER: All right. Jorge, what's wrong with Lou's thinking?
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: I just can't believe what I'm hearing, Lou. Because obviously this is a country of immigrants. And we're not talking about criminals, we're not talking about terrorists. We're talking about 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country who are making this a better country.
And not only that, I think -- I had the opportunity to talk to many people in the immigration field. And what they believe is that the president's proposals does not go far enough because the president's proposal that all these immigrants might stay in this country for six years, what is going to happen after that?
Believe me, they are not going to go back to their countries of origin. And I do understand there's also a very important issue with border security, but that has to be dealt at the same time as we somehow provide legal status to those who are already in this country.
BLITZER: All right. What about that, Lou?
DOBBS: Well, first, the issue is border security. First and foremost, whatever happens in ... RAMOS: Those who are here already, Lou.
DOBBS: I'm sorry?
RAMOS: Those who are already here in this country.
DOBBS: I'm sorry. What's in this country?
BLITZER: He's talking about the 11 million who are already here illegally.
DOBBS: Yes.
BLITZER: What do you do with those people?
RAMOS: What are you going to do with them? I mean, you cannot deport them. You cannot create concentration camps for them.
DOBBS: If I may finish what I'm saying. I'm sorry? What did you say?
RAMOS: You simply cannot create concentration camps for them, you cannot send them back to their country of origin. I mean, they pay taxes. They are a benefit to the society. We are all taking advantage of their work.
So the issue, the core issue is not only the guest worker program or the security concerns, but the core issue ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: OK. Now, I'm going to answer you, and I'm going to completely answer this time. You just made a reference to a concentration camp, which is certainly -- it's beneath you. It's certainly not -- I mean, that's a disgusting, disparaging remark, Jorge. I expect far better from you.
Number two, the issue is...
RAMOS: No. What are you going to do with them?
DOBBS: ... border security in this country. Three million illegal aliens crossed our border and will continue to do so if we cannot control our borders. And nothing that this president has done, nor any president before him, in point of fact, over the last 20 years has done is assure border security. Not operative -- or operational security, but true security of our borders.
Secondly, until we put that in place, this entire nation is at risk. We don't have 11 million illegal aliens in this country, Jorge, Wolf. We have 20 million illegal aliens in this country.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Meanwhile, people are trying to frame this is as a racial issue because Hispanic activists and corporate America's activists who want open borders so they can continue to exploit cheap labor are miscasting the entire discussion
The fact is this nation should be in charge of its immigration policy. There are 5.5 billion people on this planet who have greater poverty, who endure far worse living conditions than the country of Mexico.
BLITZER: All right. Jorge...
DOBBS: Vicente Fox should not be in charge of our policy. The United States government and those officials we've elected, whether they're in the White House or in Congress, should be in charge of a rational immigration policy.
BLITZER: Jorge, go ahead and respond. And Jorge, Lou makes a good point. You can't throw around phrases like "concentration camps" without fully appreciating the meaning of what you're talking about, because that has some specific historic context, which I'm sure you don't want to -- you don't want to address right now.
RAMOS: No, absolutely. And I don't think it's a racial issue.
I think what's important is that we have to deal -- and that's a core issue. We have to deal with 11 million undocumented immigrants living in this country on one hand, and on the other, we have to take into consideration that every single minute one immigrant crosses the border illegally from Mexico to the United States. And that has to be addressed.
I mean, these immigrants are coming simply for economic reasons. As long as they are making $5 a day in their country of origin and they can make exactly the same amount of money in just a few minutes, they are going to keep on coming. So even those who are proposing a wall between Mexico and the United States -- I mean, if you even want to build a wall between Mexico and the United States, you would have to (INAUDIBLE) undocumented immigrants to build it.
So...
BLITZER: Let me bring Lou in for a second.
Lou, what do you say to the president who says, you know what? Our economy needs these workers, these millions of workers, because American citizens, by and large, don't want to do a lot of these jobs that these illegal immigrants want to do?
DOBBS: Wolf, I'm so sick of hearing what Americans don't want to do. First, what most Americans don't want to do, nearly all Americans don't want to do, is work for exploitive wages. Nor should anyone in this country be asked to work for exploitive wages, as is happening with illegal aliens.
If we need a workforce, then by God, let's create a rational immigration policy in which this country makes a conscious, reasonable, rational decision and reaches out to the world and says these are the talents we need, whether it is in terms of manual labor, whether it's in terms of engineering, whether it is in terms of research, whatever. But let's do it intelligently, rationally, and represent the national interest and our middle class.
BLITZER: All right.
DOBBS: The Pew Research, by the way, on this issue, as these millions of illegal aliens cross our borders, the people they're displacing from jobs first are Hispanic workers in the lower-paying jobs in this country already. So again, there's just more victims being created.
BLITZER: All right -- Jorge.
RAMOS: Immigrants are needed in this country. We all know that immigrants are needed in this country. And something has to be done about it. But we have to deal with this issue and dealing with reality, not only with what many people might perceive as an anti- immigrant feeling all over the country after 9/11.
BLITZER: And one final word from you, Lou. When the president says -- when the president says he's opposed to amnesty, you don't believe him, do you?
DOBBS: Since you put it straightforwardly, let me answer you straightforwardly. No, I don't believe him. And I didn't hear a specific, substantive solution offered by this president. And I think that's a shame, because every survey -- tonight we asked our audience if they believed that the president put forward a reasonable, specific, substantive proposal today, and they said -- 98 percent of them said they did not believe so.
I mean, that's -- that's tragic.
BLITZER: We have to leave it there, gentlemen. Thanks very much, Jorge Ramos, Lou Dobbs. We'll continue this debate down the road.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: And you can catch Wolf Blitzer live in THE SITUATION ROOM weekdays, 4:00 p.m. Eastern, and again at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
We're also -- we're staying on the story that's coming out of Atlanta, Georgia, a search for an inmate here that -- these live pictures coming from WAGA, our affiliate here in Atlanta, Georgia.
Evidently, an inmate somehow escaped from a prison van as he was being transferred. He's on the loose now. We're following that story. We'll bring you more information as soon as we get it.
All the affiliates here in Atlanta bringing us these live pictures. We'll continue to follow what police are doing.
Also, straight ahead, the Vatican's statement is officially out, but out is something you better not be if you want to become a Catholic priest. We're going to discuss an issue that's sparking a whole lot of debate today.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: It was just in ruins just four years ago. Now the area where the World Trade Center once stood is getting ready for new tenants. Some famous New Yorkers took part in the groundbreaking ceremony for the new world headquarters of brokerage firm Goldman Sachs.
New York Governor George Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Charles Schumer were on hand. The 43-floor building will rise across the street from Ground Zero. It's scheduled to be finished in 2009.
Well, true love doesn't come cheap. The cost of buying everything on the 12 days of Christmas list has gone up 6 percent this year.
Susan Lisovicz live from the New York Stock Exchange with more.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And turning now to polls and politicians, Gallup editor-in-chief, Frank Newport, joins me from Princeton, New Jersey. Frank, California Republican Congressman Randy Cunningham -- we were talking about this yesterday a lot -- pleading guilty to charges of tax invasion. Is this likely to hurt the reputation of members of Congress in general?
FRANK NEWPORT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, GALLUP: Well, unfortunately, Kyra, no, the reputation of Congresspeople in general is so low, it doesn't have much further to go. We just finished our annual update here at Gallup, on the perceived honesty and ethics of a variety of professions.
Just to give you the bounds, nurses come in at the top -- 82 percent, very high or high honesty and ethics rating. It goes down from there. I put journalists in, senators and then members of Congress, 14 percent, almost at the bottom. Just a couple professions below that, including telemarketers, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, President Bush focusing on border security again today. He made that stop in El Paso, definitely a hot-button issue. A lot of Americans are divided on it. Where does the public stand?
NEWPORT: Well, you know, it's an interesting question about how hot a hot-button issue it is. First of all, Bush's approval rating on handling immigration is not good at all. In January it was 34; now it's at 26. That's about 10 or 11 points below his overall rating, so we do have that.
However, when we asked Americans what's the most important problem facing the country, in no ideological group do we find more than one out of ten mentions immigration. It's Iraq and the economy. Even among conservatives, who, to be sure, are significantly more likely to mention immigration than moderates and liberals, it's only eight percent. That's why I say it's not an extremely hot hot-button issue.
Big differences are, however, by ethnic groups. Look on the right. These are Hispanics. The question we asked, should it be easier for an illegal immigrant to get into the U.S. and get citizenship. That's the key. Seventy percent of Hispanics on the right there say yes, it should. Look at the huge differences. Just 19 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 30 percent of blacks agree, so there's a major, major ethnic division in the way that people look at the world of immigration -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, another controversial issue. Tomorrow, the Supreme Court hearing arguments on its first abortion case in five years. It will decide whether New Hampshire's parental notification law meets constitutional muster. Give us a sense on where the public stands here.
NEWPORT: Interestingly, it was 30 years ago that we first asked this three-part question, kind of our classic Gallup question. Should abortion be totally unrestricted, be legal with limits, or illegal? Back in 1975, you see the majority were in the middle. Legal, but with restrictions.
Look what we found now. We just updated it, almost identical. The majority of Americans continue to say legal, but with restrictions. Relatively few on either side of the issue.
However, when it comes to restrictions on abortion, this surprises a lot of people, Kyra. Sixty-nine percent of Americans say yes to parental consent before an 18-year-old or under woman is allowed to have an abortion. And on the right, 64 percent say of Americans say yes to a law which would require a married woman to have her husband notified before she could have an abortion legally, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Frank Newport, interesting stuff. Thanks, Frank.
Well, are your kids shooting people, blowing them up, ripping off their heads? Well, they might be if they're playing the latest crop of video games. But how can you tell which games might be too violent for your kids? Well, you could turn to the video game report card released in Washington just a short time ago by a family group and a leading senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Video games have become a form of art, and like all art throughout history, they can either educate and elevate, or they can demean and destroy those who are watching, or in this case, playing those games. And the essential facts are that this video game industry has each year become larger and larger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN's Kimberly Osias now joining us from the nation's capital with more. Let's talk about how easy it is just to get into some of these video games, Kim.
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, you're right. It's all about access. And actually, this group was saying that they sent sort of their own undercover folks, if you will, to go buy some of those games.
And when they went up to the cashier, they admitted that they had were 17 or under and that's sort of the bar for the M rating or mature rating. And the cashier said -- when they told them their age, she said, oh, you've got to give me a more correct year, wink, wink, you know. Then they corrected it, paid their 50 bucks and got the goods.
And it's not even that you have to go to the store. I mean, take a look at this. This is just a couple clicks away on the Web site. This is "True Crime New York City." It's one of the most egregious offenders. It's sort of this year's "Grand Theft Auto." And that, incidentally, is still on the list of not to buy games.
And you just -- it says it does caution you're about to view content that you may not be eligible for. But, actually, there used to be a drop-down bar. You'd just kind of dropped down kind of and you can see samplings of the material right there.
And it is -- you know, I'm certainly no prude by any means, but it is graphic. Look, you can see, he's shooting up. And you know, it's cops shooting other people. This rogue cop gone bad, Kyra, and lots of flames and the language. I mean, whew!
PHILLIPS: So, Kimberly, I didn't know if you were going to continue to talk more about that. Sorry, Kim. But you look at that and you see, like you said, a rogue cop going bad. There's bad language in there. It's very violent.
OSIAS: Yes.
PHILLIPS: And I know we want to talk about what parents can do to protect their kids. I mean, you're saying that there is supposed to be some type of limitation, but parents are buying it anyway, and obviously, salespeople are giving them the wink, wink, and saying just tell me what I, you know -- I need to here and I can buy them right?
OSIAS: Well, Kyra, it's not even parents just buying it. I mean, this issue is 17-year-olds and younger buying it when they shouldn't. And, you know, this industry is saying it's so difficult to regulate, really. And that's part of the rub.
I mean, therein lies the issue, is how do you do that? And, you know, obviously, the software companies, on the flip side, are saying, it's objective. I mean, how you can you really tell somebody how to parent? We're taking a look at -- I think that's zombie stubs the zombie. And you can see, I mean, let's just take a listen if we can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow, you sure calmed him down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got a wife and kids!
OSIAS: Showing no mercy, I've got a wife and kids.
PHILLIPS: Yes, you see the splattering blood.
OSIAS: I mean, clearly the guy's -- yes, a lot of that. And showing no mercy there, killing anyway, even though he has a wife and kids.
PHILLIPS: Well, I think there's definitely some issues with parents, too, Kimberly, that buy this stuff for their kids. I mean, they should know, that if you're at a certain age, that, I mean, these just aren't healthy for your children to be playing.
I mean, it really -- it leaves a tremendous impression on them. What about the profanity and the violence as compared to the in the past? I mean, when you and I played video games, what, it was "Pac- Man" and "Galaxy."
OSIAS: Yes, that's right. Of course.
(CROSSTALK)
OSIAS: I'd like to go back and playing some of those games, but they are so antiquated. I mean, so, you know -- not ten minutes ago, ten years ago. But, yes, it's definitely different. And, actually, in 1990, you know, one out of, I think, six or seven had instances of profanity.
And the words now, I mean, they've really ratcheted up the verbiage. And it is definitely a different game. Now, the one thing -- I think we're looking at the Xbox right there. They actually have a console, or they have kind of like V-chip technology, I understand, that prevents children from actually watching it.
And I think there's -- what the software company is saying is look, the next gen, they will have the advanced technology that will prevent children from watching stuff that their parents don't want them to watch. But that's the next gen.
PHILLIPS: Right, we saw it happen with movies.
OSIAS: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Probably the same type of thing with video games.
OSIAS: And, you know, Kyra, with movies, I mean, we saw how easy it was. I mean, I know I'll own up to the fact that I remember -- you know, you can easily get into an R. You sort of say you're going to a PG-13 and then move on over.
PHILLIPS: Right. Oh yes, definitely. Hey, the kids still do it. What are you talking about? Kimberly, thanks. Well, it was so well-written that we wanted to read it again. The Vatican statement is officially out. But out is something you better not be if you want to become a Catholic priest. That's right. We're going to discuss an issue that's sparking a lot of debate today. That's coming up on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, time for an entertainment update. First up, some new awards nomination. Also, he's rude, he's arrogant and he's going to be around for a while. We're going to tell you who we're talking about.
Nick Lachey, he won't be a newlywed much longer, but can still play one on TV. We'll head straight to Los Angeles, get all the details from our entertainment correspondent, Brooke Anderson. Hey there, Brooke.
BROOKE ANDERSON; ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Kyra. Lots of pomp and circumstance this morning in Hollywood as the nominations for the 2006 Independent Spirit Awards were announced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
Good morning. Before we tell you the Spirit Award nominees, we'd first like to announce the nominees for the three filmmaker grants. Each award includes an unrestricted grant of $25,000. The finalists for the IFC...
ANDERSON: Felicity Huffman, Dina Corzun, Laura Linney -- who you see there -- S. Epatha Merkerson and Cyndi Williams all received best female lead nominations. While Jeff Daniels, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Terrence Howard, Heath Ledger and David Strathairn got best male lead nods.
"Brokeback Mountain," "Capote" and "Good Night and Good Luck" were among those films nominated for best feature. The awards will be handed out March 4 in Santa Monica, California.
Now, you'll be able to get five more years of Simon Cowell telling it like it is. The "American Idol" judge has just reached a deal with FOX television to appear on the show for at least another five seasons. "American Idol" not going anywhere anytime soon.
Just how much Cowell will be making wasn't revealed. But one thing is for sure, he'll be keeping it real as they tells "American Idol" hopefuls what he thinks of them.
And the simple life is not yet over for celebutantes Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie. The E! Entertainment Channel has given new life to the show, picking it up for a new season. Fox recently dropped "The Simple Life," saying it wouldn't air a fourth season.
You may recall that Hilton and Richie haven't been on speaking terms for a while. Neither has given an explanation on what led to their falling out. So, in the fourth season of the show, the two don't have to come into contact with each other. They'll take turns running households with a family involved each week deciding who did the better job. A little bit of a competition there.
E! will air the 10 new episodes next spring.
And Nick Lachey is no longer a newlywed in real life, but he does plan to play one on television. The 32-year-old Lachey will film a sitcom pilot for the WB. In it he'll play a baseball star navigating a new marriage. The show will be considered for the network's Fall 2006 lineup.
Nick Lachey and wife Jessica Simpson jointly announced their separation last week, announcing they had deciding to part ways after three years of marriage.
You may remember, the two were very public about their marriage and their love for one another in an MTV reality show, it was called "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica." Kyra, I hope this new newlywed role works out for Nick.
PHILLIPS: I have a feeling he's not going to have any problems meeting someone, Brooke.
A fond good night to a man who sent generations of Americans off to dreamland with a story, a moral and always a happy ending. Make that lots of stories, lots of morals and lots of happy endings. Two hundred plus and Stan and Jan Berenstain gave birth to the Berenstain Bears in 1962.
Bet you didn't know that the couple worked with a publishing executive at Random House who happened to be a pretty fair author in his own right. Ted Geisel, aka Dr. Seuss, of course. Of the decades, the Berenstains tackled such timeless family issues as schools, siblings, doctors, dentists, neighbors, teachers, bullies.
While the bears always learned their lessons, they never changed. Stan Berenstain passed away on Saturday in Pennsylvania where he grew up and raised his own family. He was 82 years old.
LIVE FROM is back after a quick break.
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PHILLIPS: Well, an explicit new document from the Vatican puts the issue of homosexuality within the priesthood on the front burner. Although work on the statement began during the tenure of Pope John Paul II, Benedict XVI recently raised the stakes by saying there was a need to, quote, "purify the church" in the wake of the sex abuse scandals.
The new document, called an instruction, says, "The Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question can not admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called gay culture. A
Archbishop Tim Dolan joins me now from Milwaukee. And theology professor Thomas Groom is with us from Boston to discuss a document that's frankly somewhat confusing. I want to ask you both, why be so specific about homosexuality, priests are supposed to abstain from all sexual relationships, right?
ARCHBISHOP TIM DOLAN, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN: You're right on target. That's one of the things I've said all along. The same thing really applies to heterosexual candidates.
Any candidate for the priesthood who has not lived a life of sustained chastity, and had sexual relations, whether that be with women or men, or any candidate for the priesthood who would identify himself by his sexual urges, weather they be hetero or homo sexual, on either side, should not be admitted into the seminary, you're right.
PHILLIPS: So, Professor Groome, why isn't everybody held to the same standards, whether you're homosexual or heterosexual?
PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: Archbishop Dolan is absolutely right, Kyra. The sixth and ninth commandment applies to every Christian, to every Jewish person, to everybody who accepts the Decalogue as our moral norms. And then add to that for priests the vow or the promise -- the promise of celibacy for the diocesan priests, the vows of chastity for the ordered priests.
So whether they're heterosexual or homosexual, they're all called to this responsible abstinence and to responsible sexual maturity. So that applies, regardless of whether the person is heterosexual or homosexual.
PHILLIPS: All right, well, Archbishop, let me ask you this. Because we're talking about, obviously, the sex abuse scandal. And when we talk about homosexuality, are we talking about -- I mean, it's two separate things, homosexuality and pedophilia. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're a pedophile.
DOLAN: You bet it is, Kyra. And I don't think it's fair to say that this document, this instruction, is the direct result of the sexual abuse scandal. It's been in the works, as you said so correctly, for a good decade or so. And you're right -- there's -- it's terribly unjust to say, to equate homosexuality with the pedophilia scandal. So that should not be a conclusion or a presupposition...
PHILLIPS: But the document is saying no gays. So what it sounds like is, well, if you get rid of all gays in the church, then there won't be any problems with molestation again.
DOLAN: Although that's not how I read it, Kyra. I think the -- what the document is saying is that someone with homosexual inclinations could be considered a candidate for Holy Orders as long as he has led a life of sustained chastity, as long as his self- definition does not depend upon his sexual inclination, and as long as he doesn't feel the need to be part of the gay subculture, the church would consider. So I don't think it's a no gays policy.
PHILLIPS: Professor Groome?
GROOME: Yes, I think the archbishop's reading of it -- it is an ambivalent, ambiguous document. And I think it would be read variously by different people and it leaves itself open to interpretation. And maybe that will be a blessing of it, that, as it's implemented, that seminary rectors and bishops and confessors and spiritual directors will find themselves in a situation of discernment, rather than any kind of a blanket ban on gays in priesthood.
I think the church has a valid concern at this point in time, at least according to some of the statistics. And even my friends in the gay Catholic community are also concerned about it, and that is that priesthood not come to be perceived as some kind of a gay profession. That would be unfortunate for priests and for the church. And some of the statistics one hears quoted gives some cause for concern in that regard.
Now, as I said, my gay Catholic friends are equally concerned about it. Because their attitude is that if 8 or 10 percent of the general population is gay, then 8 or 10 percent of just about every profession will be gay. Now, gays in the priesthood, as Archbishop Dolan says, are bound by the same rules and regulations as heterosexuals in the priesthood, of chastity and of celibacy.
But to have mature gay men in the priesthood, it would seem to me, it would continue to be a blessing. I think the danger would be if priests would ever became perceived as veering toward becoming favoring of gays, as it were, over heterosexuals.
PHILLIPS: But the document doesn't say anything about mature gay individual. I mean, when you look at the questions that a representative from the Vatican will ask these men in seminary -- do the seminarians know how to use alcohol, the Internet, television, with prudence and moderation? How does the seminary monitor seminarians' behavior outside seminary? Is there evidence of homosexuality in the seminary? Do the seminarians or faculty have concerns about the moral life of those living in the institution?
I mean, it sounds like that if you come forward and say you're gay, then you're going to be out. Archbishop?
GROOME: Unless you can...
DOLAN: Go ahead, Professor, you're making sense.
GROOME: Well, unless...
PHILLIPS: You both have good points. Go ahead, Professor.
GROOME: Thank you. But unless one -- if one is sexually active and isn't practicing celibacy while a seminarian, he's not likely to maintain a celibate lifestyle afterwards. So, I mean, celibacy is a charism (ph) that -- and one matures into it. It's not as if you instantly have it and then have it forever, as it were. It's always a struggle. It's always a commitment. It's maintained by prayer and the grace of God, as it were. And always a struggle for any normal, balanced, sexual person.
So that type of training and formation will be requisite and an absolute necessity for people of heterosexual or homosexual tendencies going through seminary. So I think that there will be discernment, there will be decisions to be made. And hopefully it will not mean a kind of a gay subculture that will emerge in our seminaries. That would be tragic.
PHILLIPS: Well, and we could get into a whole other conversation about whether being gay is a sin or not. And I don't want to get into that whole discussion. I want to stick to this document and this new policy.
And since you're at Boston College, Professor -- Archbishop, I'm going to ask you this question, because we looked at the Boston College newspaper and there was actually an editorial that was written, Professor, in your college paper.
I just want to read something. And it said "now his stubbornness" -- talking about the pope "puts the entire church in danger because of this policy. Far from solving the sexual abuse crisis, the Holy Father and his advisers have merely found a scapegoat. Even worse, they're just mimicking a policy already in effect. A 1961 church document recommends refusing ordination to homosexual, although it's been widely ignored since then. Essentially, we're back to square one."
Archbishop, is that true?
DOLAN: No, I don't think they've read the documents, certainly not the same one I've read. Sometimes when it comes to documents from the Apostolic Sea, people get like Oliver Stone and they get kind of paranoid, and think there's conspiracy theories. This is a very nuanced, responsible, moderate, temperate document, I think.
And as the professor hinted at a little earlier, it's really nothing new. It's kind of an articulation and a capsulation of a policy that's already been in effect. I think the Vatican felt that it hurt enough people, expressed some of the concerns that Professor Groome just expressed and felt the need to rearticulate some of the timeless teaching of the church.
So I don't -- I think what you just read, Kyra -- although I admit that that is out there, that's hyperbole. That's exaggerated.
PHILLIPS: Archbishop Tim Dolan, also theology professor Thomas Groome. Quick thought? Professor, we have to go. Quick thought?
GROOME: Well, I think the document has a nuance to it that previous drafts that were leaked did not. There was a previous draft leaked that had his absolute ban. And this document does not do that.
PHILLIPS: Point well made. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. And just to be fair, it's not just the Catholic Church that's taken a strong stance against homosexuality. Here's how some other organized religious organizations approach the issue.
Although some Anglican churches in North America and Europe ordain non-celibate gay clergy, the Church of England only accepts celibate gay clergy. Now, most Anglican churches in Africa and Asia reject gay priests.
And here in the U.S., the ordination of an openly gay bishop created a deep rift in the Episcopal Church. You may remember, we covered that for a number of weeks. And the United Methodist Church bans ordination or appointment of self-avowed practicing homosexuals. It defrocked a lesbian minister in October.
Now, the official Southern Baptist stance bars gay ministers, although some small liberal Baptist groups in the U.S. do accept them. As for the Jewish faith, openly gay rabbis are accepted by the Reformed Jewish Movement. Orthodox Judaism rejects the discussion outright, believing homosexuality is abomination.Now, the conservative movement is still debating whether to allow gay rabbis.
And for the Koran, well, it forbids homosexuality. Some Muslim states impose the death penalty. In other Muslim countries, homosexuals may be imprisoned.
Well, 90 days and still no relief for hundreds of homeowners from New Orleans. Some of them still not seeing Hurricane Katrina's damage first-hand. They're angry and they're frustrated. We're going to hear more from them, next hour in LIVE FROM.
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