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FBI Targets Thieves; Carlie Brucia Murder Case; The Iraq Debate

Aired December 01, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: They came, they sawed, and they cleaned up. The so-called Gate Cutter Burglars have been a smashing success for months, knocking off mall jewelry stores all along the East Coast with the help of a battery-powered saw and an incredible amount of nerve.
CNN's Gary Nurenberg joins us now with more from Washington as the FBI puts a task force on their trail.

Gary, what do we know about these guys?

GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that it's a crew of five that subscribes to the proposition that all that glitters is not sold. A crew of five that has taken smash and grab to a new level of sophistication. A crew that hits the road, staging heists from New Hampshire to Florida in the past two and a half years. The FBI is stymied, is now asking for the public's help, and just a few moments ago described the M.O.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS SWECKER, ASST. DIR., FBI: They are known to cut through the roll-down security gates to enter the jewelry stores. Once inside, they pry open the display cases and remove products that are not secured in the safe. In most cases the subjects do not attempt to enter the safes and usually are in the store for a very short period of time. This is a very professional crew.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NURENBERG: A professional crew, smash and grab. A sophisticated smash and grab. They do counter-surveillance. They have disabled store security systems and cameras. Thinking that they might be chased by mall security people, they have at times put super glue in the mall security vehicles outside.

The FBI says it's a crew that knows what it's doing, but the FBI is now worried that in the holiday season, because guns have been seen with this crew in the past, that there is an increasing danger. And that, Kyra, is why it is asking for the public's help right now.

PHILLIPS: Well, what does the FBI want the public to do then?

NURENBERG: There's a number, 1-800-CALL-FBI. Be on the lookout if you're in a mall, they say, for the particular M.O. of this group. They cut through the security fences in stores. And we've seen video that the FBI showed us here just a few minutes ago of people walking outside the stores in the mall while the burglars were inside getting away with lots of money.

It is a brazen crew. It has a very carefully scheduled scheme that it follows getting into and out of the stores using the same fire escapes that they planned apparently for weeks to do. FBI says look for anything unusual.

This crew has gotten away with a lot of money in the last two and a half years, $5.1 million. The investigation now includes 49 local and state police agencies, in addition to the FBI. And they're frankly, Kyra, looking for any help they can get, because on their own, so far, they haven't been able to catch them.

A reward of almost $50,000.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Gary Nurenberg. We'll stay on the story.

Thanks, Gary.

More now on the Carlie Brucia sentencing phase that's taking place. Fredricka Whitfield in the newsroom with more -- Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this is what's taking place out of Sarasota, Florida, in a circuit court. Right now, the jurors are hearing from the defense attorney of Joseph Smith, who is the 39-year-old father of three daughters who was found guilty of kidnapping, sexual assault and the murder of 11-year-old (AUDIO GAP) leaving the courtroom.

Meantime, what makes this very interesting is that a very savvy juror apparently asked if, indeed, Joseph Smith might be making a final plea himself to the courtroom in the form of admitting to his crimes. It's called an allocution. But the judge has said he's not going to permit this, because that would mean that Joseph Smith would have to be cross-examined by the prosecution. That is, those words being uttered in the presence of the jurors.

So instead, it is expected that the circuit court judge, Andrew Owens, will be hearing from Joseph Smith himself, but not in the presence of those jurors.

And then, of course, when the jurors do go into deliberation, they will be considering whether to sentence him to life or the death penalty. And this will be a recommendation to the court. It will finally be up to the judge in which to render a decision. But, he says that the considerations and the suggestions from the jurors will be weighing heavily -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Fred. We'll stay on it. Thanks so much.

Now the war in Iraq. Insurgents on the attack in the strategic Sunni town of Ramadi. The Associated Press quotes police and residents saying that insurgents fired mortars at several U.S. bases and government offices, and the U.S. military reports only one rocket- propelled grenade was fired at an observation post and that there were no injuries.

Ramadi is the provincial capital of Anbar province, believed to be a center for making car and roadside bombs, and one of the transit routes for foreign fighters flowing into Iraq from Syria. Numerous battles between U.S. forces and insurgents have occurred there over the past two years.

Still no word on the fate of those five Westerners taken hostage and seen in this videotape last week. Diplomats are stepping up efforts to win their release, though. Four of the hostages are members of the Chicago-based peace group Christian Peacemaker Teams. The fifth is a German archeologist.

The U.S. embassy in Baghdad issued a statement condemning the kidnapping and called for the immediate release of all the hostages, who include one American.

The president's big speech on Iraq is part of an effort to boost public opinion, and polls show that he has some work to do. A new CNN "USA-Today"-Gallup survey finds more than half of all Americans don't think the president has a plan that will achieve victory.

Meantime, Hillary Clinton is criticizing the president's strategy even as she defends her Senate vote to authorize the war. In an e- mail to supporters she writes, "I take responsibility for my vote, and I, along with a majority of Americans, expect the president and his administration to take responsibility for the false assurances, faulty evidence and mismanagement of the war."

For more on Senator Clinton and the battle for public opinion, let's turn to senior political analyst Bill Schneider in Washington.

Bill, Americans think Iraqis will ever be able to keep terrorists from using their country as a safe haven?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's the big question. That is the definition of victory that President Bush proposed and most Democrats accept, that Iraq must never become a base from which terrorists can plan attacks on the United States.

That's the minimum definition of victory. Do Americans think that's likely to happen? In our poll last night we asked them precisely that, and they said, no, by almost two to one, Iraq will not be able to prevent terrorists from using that country as a base of operations for planning attacks against the United States.

So the plan for victory doesn't look like Americans at the moment think it will succeed.

PHILLIPS: Well, Hillary voted to authorize the war, Senator Clinton. And how is she navigating that role while also working toward her White House run?

SCHNEIDER: Well, she's essentially trying to moderate the differences between her and both Democrats and Republicans here. She's -- the difference from other Democrats is she says she does not demand a timetable. President Bush said he won't accept an artificial timetable imposed by politicians.

Some Democrats have called for a timetable. Not Senator Clinton.

She also doesn't describe her vote as a mistake. When asked about it she says -- and she told her supporters this in her e-mail message -- she said, "If we knew then what we know now, President Bush would have never submitted this for a vote in the United States Congress and Congress would never have voted for it."

On the other hand, she describes the Bush administration, in her words, as an evidence-free administration. She talks about having gone to Iraq twice, coming back, talking to the military about the problems over there and about their lack of ability to really train their security forces, and she said the administration just doesn't pay attention to the evidence.

What she is calling for is what she called benchmarks. She said she won't take President Bush's word for it. Like most Democrats, she just doesn't trust the president. She wants independent measures that will essentially provide convincing evidence of exactly what progress is being made.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's talk about Iraq's parliamentary election, December 15. Do you think it will give Bush a boost?

SCHNEIDER: Well, every time there's been an election in Iraq -- and they've had two already this year, one for an interim government January 30, and a second for the new constitution, October 15 -- there has been a boost. Americans have for a very short term gained some confidence that Iraq was on its way to achieving stability, that they might have a government or a constitution where the country could get its act together. But then those hopes were very quickly dashed because of the accelerating violence.

Well, there's another, third chance, December 15. The president talked bout it yesterday, when they'll elect a real government that's going to serve, presumably, a full term of office. And I wouldn't be surprised, Kyra, if we see some evidence that this has given the war effort some boost in the polls, especially -- and this is the critical test -- if large numbers of Sunnis participate in that election.

Remember, they're the base for much of the insurgent activity. And for a Sunni to go and vote on December 15 is quite literally a death-defying act.

PHILLIPS: Our political analyst, Bill Schneider.

Thanks, Bill.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

PHILLIPS: Well, has the world turned the corner on AIDS? A quarter century into the pandemic, the prognosis is more mixed than ever. We'll get a global perspective on World AIDS Day 2005 with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta live when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Keep your word, cap the spread of HIV and AIDS. That's the message from the World AIDS Campaign on World AIDS Day 2005. A reminder to governments big and small, each and every U.N. member state, that the U.N.'s landmark declaration of commitment on HIV-AIDS is five years old, and many of its promises on education, prevention and treatment are still just that.

This is Germany, where HIV infections have shot up 20 percent in 2005. Some say because of complacency.

The World Bank estimates that 2005 will be the worst year to date for new infections and AIDS deaths across the globe, in spite of clinical strides and campaigns like this one in Beijing to promote safe sex.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta just returned from an eye-opening visit to Rwanda, on a continent that's home to more than half of the people living with HIV.

Tell me what struck you the most.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, what was most interesting for me, as you know, there are so many stories about how bad it is. And, you know, the numbers, obviously, are not good to listen to. But there's a lot of hopeful stories there, as well, optimistic stories in Rwanda, for example.

We were in Tanzania, Rwanda, we were in Kenya as well. People are starting to talk about the fact that they are HIV positive.

There used to be such stigma surrounding this disease in many of those countries. That's getting a lot better. That's important.

Just to contrast that with India, where I was a few months before that, a lot of times patients will actually be thrown out of hospitals if they come back tested positive with HIV.

The stigma is very real in some parts of the world, but getting better certainly in Africa.

One of the things that struck me is that the treatment is working. When AIDS was a death sentence for sure, the stigma was much greater. Now that the medications are working, Kyra, people say, you know what? You can live a normal life. You can be a member of our community, and the stigma goes way down.

PHILLIPS: I remember when I saw the movie "Beat the Drum" and it talked about the cultural beliefs of how you could beat AIDS or why AIDS was happening, you know, not dealing with any sort of medicine or anything like that.

GUPTA: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Did you see a lot of those cultural beliefs or traditions going on while you were there, or was it more medical? GUPTA: It was -- I certainly have seen that movie and I've heard about those cultural beliefs, but you would be amazed at how medical it is.

We were in these tiny villages in Rankwabu (ph), which is in eastern Rwanda. And, you know, the average person on the street would know the term "anti-retroviral."

PHILLIPS: Wow.

GUPTA: And it's a part of their vernacular because that's how much AIDS is a part of their life. So, yes, they know the medications, they know the medications work, and they know how to ask for them, as well. So it's certainly shifting.

PHILLIPS: The kids, too? Are they educated on sex and AIDS and how it spreads?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, very much so. And, you know, this has become certainly a way of life for them.

When you have entire villages, entire communities where you're left with so many AIDS orphans, everyone understands HIV-AIDS, they understand how it's transmitted. And most importantly -- you know, they're doing a little dance here for us, Kyra, basically to educate community members about AIDS and how it's transmitted. This is -- this is part of how they actually educate the communities around them.

But the understanding is sophisticated. Don't mistake the fact that they're having these -- they're beating the drums and dancing for being anything less than a very good AIDS discussion and education about it.

PHILLIPS: Well, what's the message here? I mean, do they -- they start by dancing? Explain it to me.

GUPTA: Well, this particular -- this is Dr. Michael Rich, who is part of Partners in Health, and this woman is actually thanking him. You know these guys in Partners in Health actually go there and they -- you know, they move there for a decade at a time to be able to get these projects done, getting the medications there.

So in this particular dance, obviously a little bit more lighthearted. They're thanking the Partners in Health organization for the great work that they've done.

PHILLIPS: It's neat stuff.

All right. You sat down with the former president, Bill Clinton. You talked to him about a lot of things, including AIDS. I remember you told me about this interview a while back. Tell me about that time -- your time with him, and tell us a little bit about the interview.

GUPTA: I traveled with him through Africa. You know, this is his biggest post-presidency initiative. And I mean that, you know, seriously.

He is very serious about AIDS. He told me, flat out, that, "Look, this is the most concrete thing that I can do. I help negotiate lower drug prices. That helps save people's lives."

It is very concrete. And I thought -- I was very struck by that. But he also has a way of just boiling things down and making it very simple. This is how he put it to me...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: AIDS used to be about two things. Nobody wanted to talk about sex and death. You know?

Now we know it's also about drugs. We know it's about contaminated blood transfusion equipment. And we know it doesn't have to be about death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: And that's what he's basically saying. That is his message, is, look, we understand that we haven't figured out AIDS yet, we don't know how to cure AIDS yet. But we've gotten much better at treating it.

People are living normal lives and normal life spans, as well, with AIDS. And that has done more than anything else to reduce the stigma of this disease in many countries.

PHILLIPS: But is there more talk about use of condoms or abstinence? Or what are those children being taught in those small villages?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, you're sort of touching on a somewhat touchy subject because...

PHILLIPS: Controversial.

GUPTA: It is controversial, because we're talking about something known as PEPFAR, which is the President's Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief, $15 billion over five years. A lot of money, the biggest domestic initiative towards HIV-AIDS that we ever heard about.

But a lot of that money is being designated for abstinence-only programs. And, you know, obviously that's controversial. It's just not an option in many of these countries, abstinence-only programs.

Forced sex unfortunately is a part of the culture for many women in these countries, so it's just not possible. So it is a touchy subject.

What I will tell you is what I saw is that the money, for the most part, some of this PEPFAR money, is going towards medications and other monies are coming in to buy condoms, to allow people to have their normal way of life and help fight AIDS at the same time. PHILLIPS: Is it too broad of a question to even ask you about a cure, a vaccine?

GUPTA: No. I think it's an important question. And I asked the same question.

I say, are we going to hear the term "cure" and "AIDS" in the same sentence? So I've asked the researchers the same thing. And, you know, that may be the most disheartening part about this whole question, because I don't think that it's going to be anytime soon that we're going to hear about a vaccine for HIV-AIDS.

There are currently 10 vaccine trials going on around the world. They're all sort of similar vaccine trials, meaning that if one doesn't work, there is a good chance none of them will actually work.

And, you know, it's a tricky virus. This is a really tricky virus, which is why it's been 25 years and the number of deaths continue to increase.

But people are getting better at preventing it. People are getting better at reducing the stigma of it. And the world is engaged.

I mean, people used to think about Africa and think, we're just never going to fix that problem, it's never going to get better. And it is. And I think that's what we saw more than anything else out there.

PHILLIPS: A lot of promotion.

What a great trip. I mean, professionally, as a doctor, and also as a journalist. I'm envious.

GUPTA: Yes, well, and, you know, the doctors that are out there, these Partners in Health doctors, I really -- my producers will tell you, I just walked away with such great admiration. I wanted to just throw off my hat and join them right now, because it is so concrete, Kyra.

You can save people's lives every single day. In the few days that we were in the small village, I saw a women who came in, was deathly ill, was probably going to die. And before I left she was walking out of the hospital.

PHILLIPS: Wow.

GUPTA: It was one of the most concrete sort of, here are the medications, we're saving lives every single day. It's happening out there.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, a programming note for you. Tonight, former president Bill Clinton joins Anderson Cooper to discuss the global fight against AIDS and more. The CNN exclusives is on "AC 360" at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

Well, in China, HIV-tainted blood supplies infected some 70,000 people in the 1980s and the '90s. But some are now just finding out.

CNN's Tara Duffy met one woman for whom AIDS is just one burden of many.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TARA DUFFY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): "If you don't learn the words, you won't understand what the pictures are about!" Liu Xianhong scolds her son. This 31-year-old mother, who only completed grade five herself, is teaching her 8-year-old at home.

Mong Chong (ph) is HIV positive. So is Liu.

She pulled him out of school this year.

"The other kids said he wouldn't live for long," she told me. "I felt that's too much pressure on my son. I'm afraid he couldn't take it."

In this rural part of northeast China ignorance about HIV-AIDS often means discrimination and stigma surround those who are HIV positive and their families. Liu's husband has had trouble finding work since people in their village found out that Liu and their son have HIV.

Some 75 percent of people with HIV in China do not know they have the virus. Liu only found out this year that she and her son were positive.

She told me, "It felt like the sky was crashing down. I had heard of this disease called AIDS, but didn't realize how serious it was to have it. I was very scared."

She believes she was infected 11 years ago from a blood transfusion after giving birth to her daughter. Zhu Xianping, Liu's husband, has tested negative for the virus.

She said, "I told my husband we should get a divorce. I told him, 'You're not so old, you can find someone else. I can take care of our son.' But he refused. I was really moved, but I feel such a heavy burden."

Liu says one doctor at the hospital later told her that the blood used was obtained illegally. No one else will even acknowledge she was treated there.

She said, "In their hearts they know the truth. They just won't admit it."

She says she tried repeatedly to speak to the doctors there about what happened. One day she and her extended family went to the hospital once more.

Liu says they were met by a group of about 30 men, armed with wooden sticks. They attacked her, her husband, her brother-in-law and her parents-in-law. They only stopped hitting Liu when she said she had AIDS.

She told me, "My husband and my father-in-law were lying on the ground. My husband looked dead and I was terrified."

A month later, her parents-in-law and her husband were still in another hospital recovering.

ZHU XIANPING, LIU'S HUSBAND (through translator): I want to find the perpetrators. Why did they beat the family members of someone with HIV?

DUFFY: Liu is not sure exactly who the men were, but she says at least one was a policeman. Local police and the hospital told us they had never heard of the incident documented by a local photographer after it took place.

We asked China's health minister about the harassment of people with HIV and their families who are seeking compensation from hospitals.

GAO QIANG, CHINESE MINISTER OF HEALTH (through translator): We need to protect the legitimate rights and interests of people with AIDS, but we also need to protect the rights and interests of the doctors.

DUFFY: He also said that cases involving hospital disputes should be settled by the courts. Liu is suing the hospital.

"I will use everything I have to fight them," she told me. "No matter success or failure, I won't have any regrets because I tried."

With her health failing, she says her only hope now is for her husband and for her daughter. Liu is pushing her, too, to study hard. For Liu and her family these past few months have been a difficult crash course in HIV-AIDS.

Tara Duffy, CNN, China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Straight to the newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield working the story out of Fort Worth. These pictures coming into us from WFAA. Something about shots fired at a military base -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes. You're looking at the live pictures right now of the naval air station joint reserve base in Ft. Worth, Texas, where you see in the far distance a number of law enforcement vehicles that have responded to this reporting of one person wounded following a shooting.

Most of this information coming from our affiliate WFAA there in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. Of course we've got a lot of calls out to various locations to try to get the whole story on this. But this is an air base, a -- that specifically is host to a number of fighter attack and airlift units for the various reserve components of the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines. So it's a very comprehensive and very important installation there in Ft. Worth, Texas.

And now we're getting some new information that report three people have been wounded from these shots that have been fired at the naval air station joint reserve base there in Ft. Worth, Texas. And of course, when we get more information on the circumstances of these shootings and the wounding now of three people reportedly, we'll be able to bring that to you -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll stay on the story.

Well, don't let the bed bugs bite. That's the thrust of a lawsuit that's been filed against a Manhattan hotel. Two Swiss tourists say that there were extra guests in their room at the Hotel Pennsylvania, very hungry bed bugs.

The woman claimed that they were nearly eaten alive with bites all over their bodies. So a spokeswoman for the hotel says that her client does not comment on pending litigation.

Well, you know the expression "What goes up must come down." But that does not apply to cable TV bills. Susan Lisovicz live from the New York Stock Exchange to explain.

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