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Jury: Death for Smith; Execution Milestone

Aired December 02, 2005 - 13:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: He's best known for representing Jack Kevorkian, but now lawyer Geoffrey Fieger has hired his own defense attorney. The FBI and the IRS raided Fieger's Michigan law office yesterday. Fieger lawyers said the agents were looking for documents related to campaign contributions made during last year's presidential race. The lawyer also says the government is focusing on donations to the John Edwards campaign. For his part, Fieger says Republican prosecutors are simply out to get him. In his words, it's McCarthyism all over again.
(MARKET REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Can't be dead fast enough. That's what a grieving mother says about the man charged with killing her 11-year-old daughter. A Florida jury deliberated five hours yesterday before recommending that Joseph P. Smith be executed for murder. The final decision is up to the presiding judge. That could come as soon as January. Prosecutors say Smith is the man seen on this videotape leading 11-year-old Carlie Brucia to the place where he raped and killed her and abandoned her body. People with emotional ties to that case say the jury's decision is the right one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN SCHORPEN, CARLIE BRUCIA'S MOTHER: He may be condemned, but he's still breathing and my daughter isn't. If he was to die tonight, yes, I might get a good night's sleep.

He damned himself. He did this all to himself. His evidence was left, and then he showed his true colors while he's been incarcerated. So there's -- he did it to himself. He couldn't be dead fast enough for me. I want him dead. I want him dead now. My daughter's not breathing. She'll never breathe again. I can never hold her again.

I've got to wait for appeals for you know, he dies? It matters to me.

DEBRA RIVA, PROSECUTOR: Obviously, this is the goal that we were all hoping to achieve. We thought this was a just recommendation in this case. We really cannot comment any further about it since we do have future proceedings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: A convicted murderer died by lethal injection this morning in North Carolina, not exactly news by itself. That state ranks seventh in the land for the highest number of executions. But Kenneth Lee Boyd's case is a watershed. He's the 1,000th convicted criminal to receive the ultimate punishment since it was reinstated in the 1970s. It's a distinction Boyd himself didn't choose for a crime he never denied.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Seventeen years on death row. Kenneth Lee Boyd was given two murder trials, both times the same sentence -- that Boyd should die for gunning down two people while his children watched. One of the victims was his wife of 13 years.

It was March of 1988. Boyd drove to his father-in-law's house in Stoneville, North Carolina. There he found his estranged wife and her father. He shot them both dead. Kenneth Lee Boyd then called police and turned himself in.

KENNETH LEE BOYD, EXECUTED TODAY IN N.C.: I'm not blaming nobody for this. I blame me. I blame Kenneth Boyd. I've done that. You know, I don't put no fault on these people or nothing.

PHILLIPS: His defense? he was driven by alcohol, depression, and suffered blackouts from post-Vietnam stress. A jury twice saw only murder. His first trial that same year was overturned for a technicality. Six years later a new jury, the same verdict.

The state of North Carolina has now put 39 inmates to death since capital punishment was resumed in 1984. Kenneth Lee Boyd is the fifth to die this year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: So 1,000 executions -- it's not really a milestone, just a number, but it keeps alive the debate over capital punishment's viability in this country. Is it just a penalty? Is it cruel and unusual? Is it an effective deterrent? It's a debate that divides Americans, decides elections, and is the cornerstone of many a personal and political philosophy.

My guests today both feel very strongly about the death penalty. They should. Both have deep emotional ties to capital cases. Linda White and Bill Green join me live from Houston. Great to have you both with me.

LINDA WHITE, DAUGHTER RAPED, KILLED IN 1986: Thank you.

BILL GREEN, SON MURDERED IN 1998: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Just to start out, so our viewers can get a sense and get to know your children, Linda, let's start with you and tell us about your daughter, Cathy O'Daniel and what happened.

WHITE: Cathy disappeared on her way home one evening late in November of 1986. She was, we thought originally, abducted by two 15- year-old boys but -- well, for five days we didn't know what happened to her. But when the facts came to light we felt like she had been abducted. And that's still not clear. But we do know she encountered them in her attempt to stop and get gas. And she was subsequently raped and murdered later that evening, or the early hours of the next morning.

PHILLIPS: All right. I want everyone to remember Cathy's story and what happened to her. And now Bill, I want you to tell us about your son Michael.

GREEN: Well, our son Michael was 25 years old. He was a deputy constable here in Harris County. Michael stopped a carload of gangbangers. There were six cars. That was September 29th, 1998.

And while trying to interview or talk with some of the people in the car, he took one person out of the car who was a individual by the name of Michael Lopez. At that time Michael, only like several weeks being 18 years old. And he began to question, a young man turned around and either hit Michael or slapped Michael -- several different ways he explains it. But anyway, he ran.

Michael basically caught this individual, he put him down on his knees, and hands on his head. And he just told him, he said son, you shouldn't have done that. He said, you're under arrest at this point. Michael never had his gun out or anything like that. And the young man said that our son had treated him just wonderfully, I mean, didn't hurt him, didn't abuse him.

The young man said Michael did everything he should have. But however, at this point, at this point as Michael kneels down and takes his hand into his left hand and Michael starts to put a cuff on it, the young man takes his hand off of his head and he reaches down into his pocket, he pulls out a pistol, and he puts it behind his own head, and when he does he shoots our son behind the ear.

And I suppose as Michael is falling he shoots again and he misses. At this time, of course, that was -- that shot killed our son. At this time he decides to run back to the car, but seeing other officers arrive on the scene, he turns around, goes back to where Michael's at, he turns our son over, he puts the gun in his throat, and he shoots him again and then flees the scene.

PHILLIPS: I know it's not easy for you to talk about, Bill. I appreciate you just continuing with the story. And actually, as you were explaining the story of what happened to your son, Linda, I heard you gasp. It's not easy to hear these stories, is it?

WHITE: Oh, absolutely not. There's no way to portray what happened to Bill's son and my daughter as anything but horrible tragedies.

PHILLIPS: Now, here's where the two of you agree, or where you two have something in common. That is your children were brutally murdered. In your case, Linda, your daughter was raped and murdered. But the two of you differ on the death penalty, which I find is very interesting. Linda, you are against the death penalty. You have even been quoted as saying "I believe the death penalty is about who we are as a society, not what the offender has done to deserve punishment. As long as we model killing as an appropriate response, we will continue to be the most violent society within the highly developed nations."

With what happened to your daughter, why do you feel so strongly with regard to being against the death penalty?

WHITE: In the beginning I was not necessarily against it, I vacillated a lot. I don't think anyone that's been through what Bill and I have been through can ever say that they didn't have moments when they very much agreed with that woman this morning.

I want him dead. He can't die soon enough. I think we all have those feelings. And I think in the short term that executions may be beneficial to some victims perhaps, but I think in the long term they only add to the level of violence in our culture.

And I think they help create people like the boys that killed my daughter and the young man that killed Bill's son. And I want us to be concerned about -- more about the future and doing what we can to resensitize us to the sanctity of life and every single human life.

PHILLIPS: And Linda, you actually sat down with one of the men that was involved in your daughter's murder. We're going to talk about that in a minute. And Bill, you are very much for the death penalty. We're going to talk to you about that. We're going to take a quick break and continue our discussion right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We want to continue our discussion about the death penalty. My guests both have quite emotional ties to the capital cases. Linda White and Bill Green, joining me once again from Houston. We -- both -- we've talked about both of your children.

Linda, you against the death penalty. Bill, you are very much for it. Tell me why.

GREEN: Yes, I am, Kyra. I have respect for Linda White's feelings. I mean, if that's what she believes and that's what'll get her through the crisis and so forth, well, then that's fine. That's her belief.

Mine is totally different. You know, my belief -- when I was told this morning that they had executed the 1,000th person that took place at 2:00 last night -- and I guess perhaps Linda might think, well, oh, what an atrocity for 1,000 people to be executed.

Well, let me tell you what my opinion was -- is -- my God, that means that there has been in excess of 1,000 victims. There has been over -- in excess of 1,000 people killed by these murderers who have been executed, not counting the ones that are on -- that are on death row now. PHILLIPS: Linda, you -- the two -- they were 15 at the time, the two boys that were involved in your daughter's murder and rape. You actually sat down with Gary Brown. You didn't talk with Marion Douglas (ph), but you sat down with Gary Brown.

Why did you do that? What was it like? What did he say to you? And did you feel any sense of peace after you did that?

WHITE: It took a long time for me to get to the point in my life that I was interested in sitting down with Gary Brown, and that's a much longer story than we have time to tell. But that was 14 and a half years after Cathy's death. And by the time I sat down with him, I'd spent a year preparing to meet with him. It was part of a program that we have in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

I sat down with him because I wanted to ask him some questions that only he could answer about the night that my daughter died. I was finally ready to ask and hear the answers to those questions, which I never had been up to that point. I also wanted to hear him say to me how sorry he was.

He knows, I know, and everyone knows that that can never, ever bring my daughter back, it won't change it, but I won't kid you. I liked hearing it. I wanted to hear him say it. I wanted to have him look in my eyes and my daughter Amy's eyes, who was Cathy's daughter before she was mine -- I wanted him to have to look at us and accept that responsibility. And he did. And brought me a lot of peace, believe me.

PHILLIPS: So you felt he was remorseful?

WHITE: Oh, absolutely. I have no question.

PHILLIPS: And so you're raising your daughter's daughter, your granddaughter.

WHITE: Yes, I am.

PHILLIPS: Wow.

Bill, have you ever had a chance to speak to Michael Lopez, the man who killed your son, and would you ever want to speak to him and...

GREEN: No, I wouldn't.

PHILLIPS: OK.

GREEN: The only time I'd want to see -- and of course, the Texas legislature, our D.A., our family, the state of Texas has been cheated out of Michael Lopez's death. The only time I would want to see Michael Lopez was strapped to a gurney with a needle in his arm and so forth. And I -- especially his dad and my wife, Janet -- and so forth.

Let me -- let me say one thing. And I've said this I guess many, many times. Number one, most -- probably 99 percent of these people -- only have one regret. And keep in mind, that's because they were caught. And with respect for Linda, but for her to want to sit down and nature or coddle or love this particular individual or anything of that nature -- he's only sorry that he got caught. That's the only regret. That's the only probably regrets that these people have, that they were, basically, caught.

Now, when we talk about Michael Lopez -- and something Linda touched on just a minute ago -- where his deal has been commuted from a death penalty over to a 40-year sentence and even given -- since it's a new law and new day -- he was even given the seven years off of the 40, which he'll have less time to serve in the prison system.

But as far as Michael Lopez, I wish he would have met his day with his -- his day with death. Every day, as Linda mentioned about her daughter, every day that Michael Lopez is,alive, there will be a sun up and sundown that our son won't see that he will surely see. Every breath of air he draws will be a breath of air that our son will never get an opportunity to draw and so forth.

So no, I don't -- I don't ever care to see Michael Lopez. And upon Michael -- should he have kept the death penalty, upon his death -- and don't let anybody tell you any different. Linda can't speak for me any more than I can speak for her. But I'll tell you right now, his death would have been some closure to our family and it would have been of little closure, but it would have been some closure and so forth. Yes. I would have looked forward to that day.

PHILLIPS: Well, I tell you, I praise you both. I respect both of your opinions. But even more so, I respect both of you for being such incredible advocates for what you believe in and being such strong parents. I can't even imagine going through what you have gone through with a child.

But I just -- as we go to break, Cathy -- or Linda, I want to lift up your daughter, Cathy. Bill, I want to lift up your son Michael, and just honor their memory today and thank you both very, very much for sharing your stories.

GREEN: Thank you.

WHITE: Thank you, Kyra.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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