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NTSB Investigating Chicago Plane Crash; Southwest CEO Discusses Crash; Piloting Expert Explains Factors Leading to Accident; Troops Face Deadlier IEDs in Iraq; Deadline Nears for Hostages; Congress Works to Pass Anti-Torture Bill

Aired December 09, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: From CNN's world headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Here's the stories that we're working on for you right now.
Runway crash. What caused this accident in Chicago? We'll hear from Southwest Airlines live this hour.

IEDs, the deadliest weapon in the Iraqi insurgent's arsenal. A CNN exclusive report on how they're becoming even more sophisticated.

And finally free. DNA evidence proves this man's innocence after 24 years behind bars.

All that and more straight ahead. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE ABATE, PASSENGER ON SOUTHWEST 1248: It felt like a normal landing. I mean, we landed hard on all three wheels but didn't realize that something was going awry until we were not able to decelerate like normal. And you know, the terminal to my right, because I was at the exit window, went by pretty quickly, and we were still at a pretty good clip. That's when I realized something wasn't going well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Out of control, off the runway into a busy intersection, a passenger remembers a pilot's attempt to wrestle his jet to a stop in a driving snowstorm.

And we're awaiting another news conference right now from the CEO of Southwest Airlines on last night's deadly collision between Flight 1248 and two cars on the outskirts of Chicago's Midway Airport. Thirteen people were hurt in that plane, on the ground, and a 6-year- old boy from a car that was crushed under the aircraft's nose was killed.

Weather seems, to say the least, a factor in that crash, though the feds will now look at everything. And it could take a year to get a final conclusion.

We get the latest now from CNN's Jonathan Freed. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating this accident, has said today, it could take as long as a year until the results of this investigation are known.

Among other things, they say they're going to be looking into the air traffic control tapes of what happened yesterday, personal interviews. They're going to go through the process, they say, of looking at all the possibilities, not ruling anything out, just because it might be obvious.

They're going to look at damage to the plane, obviously, visual inspections, photographs. Engineers are going to be poring over the plane. They're going to look at the mechanical history of the plane, its inspections, its maintenance history, as well as comparing that to the history of this type of aircraft.

Now aside from all of this, they say it's important to not jump to any conclusions.

ELLEN ENGLEMAN CONNERS, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We're going to focus on all aspects. The one thing that you find in accident investigations is there's no immediate, quick answer. Usually there is a series of events, a series of factors that led to the event. So it's often the first guess is not correct.

FREED: The NTSB also says that the flight data and voice recorders have been sent to Washington for analysis, and they say that weather was a component of all of this and is going to be part of the investigation.

Jonathan Freed, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Once again, we want to remind you that we are waiting for a live conference right now with the Southwest CEO, Gary Kelly. We're told he's getting ready to step up to the mic. You can see that he has arrived. This is happening at Midway International Airport. And we will take it live as soon as it happens, as we wait for him to step up to the mic via our affiliates there.

It looks like -- he's just a few -- yes, he's getting close to the mic. It looks like they're discussing security issues right now, and trying to get the press in order. So we'll bring that to you live, obviously, as soon as he steps up to -- to the microphone.

Now, any pilot can tell you not all runways are created equal. Some are long. Some are not so long. Some are surrounded by wide open spaces, some by buildings and busy streets.

Herb Stockton is a former Navy pilot and retired airline pilot who knows the ins and outs of daily aviation as well as anybody. And I appreciate you coming and talking with me today, just about flying in these types of conditions. We're waiting for this -- actually, we're going to take the press conference. Stay with me.

Herb Stockton, FORMER NAVY PILOT: All right. All right.

PHILLIPS: I want you to listen to this. We'll talk about the flying and also what Gary Kelly has to say, CEO of Southwest.

GARY KELLY, CEO, SOUTHWEST AIRLINES: I want to begin by extending our heartfelt sympathies to all those who were directly affected by the events of last night. It was with great sadness that we learned of the death of a child, who was in one of the vehicles hit by the aircraft. The entire Southwest family is grieving this loss, and our thoughts and prayers go out to the child's family, friends and loved ones.

Thursday evening at approximately 7:15 p.m. Central Time, Southwest Airlines Flight 1248 was involved in an accident at Chicago Midway Airport. While the aircraft was landing. The plane veered off the runway through the blast fence and at the northwest corner of the runway, stopping at the intersection of Central and 55th avenues.

The weather conditions at the time could be described as one quarter to one half mile visibility with snow. The flight, which was on arrival from Baltimore/Washington International Airport, was scheduled to continue on to Las Vegas and Salt Lake City.

Flights into and out of Chicago Midway were canceled for the remainder of the evening. Our employees worked hard to reaccommodate those passengers that were affected. And we resumed flight operations this morning at 6 a.m. Central Time.

The majority of the 13 injured persons have been treated and released from local hospitals. We're still collecting and verifying injury reports, but at this time we have three individuals who are still receiving treatment at local hospitals. We're still seeking complete medical information on each injury and hopefully will have updates for you later on.

We intend to do everything, of course, in our power, to provide information and comfort to all those that have been affected. It is too early for me and certainly inappropriate for Southwest to speculate as to a cause prior to the National Transportation Safety Board can complete a thorough investigation.

Southwest Airlines employees are in the process of contacting the families of the passengers and crew members as well as those affected on the ground.

A team of 94 trained Southwest Airlines employees arrived in Chicago this morning at 3:25 and are working closely to support the NTSB and FAA as they lead the investigations.

The aircraft involved in this accident was a Boeing 737-700, tail number N471. Southwest took delivery of this aircraft in July of 2004. The aircraft was released from a routine maintenance check in our Phoenix maintenance facility on December the 7th. At that time, there were no indications that the aircraft was experiencing any type of maintenance problems.

The captain on Flight 1248 has been flying for many years and for Southwest Airlines for 10 years and is based in Baltimore. The first officer has also many years of flying experience in flying for Southwest Airlines for Southwest Airlines just over two years, also based in Baltimore. That -- this flight was the first flight for the day yesterday for both of these pilots.

Of course, this is a very sad day for us here at Southwest Airlines. And there are absolutely no words to adequately convey our grief and our sorrow over this tragedy. As a company, our main priority is for the safety and well-being of our customers and our employees, and we will work earnestly to help those in need.

So I would be happy to (AUDIO GAP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, four, three, two, one. Check five, four, three, two, one.

PHILLIPS: All right. We're having some issues with the audio there. I apologize. What you've been listening to is a live conference there with Southwest CEO Gary Kelly talking about that air incident, accident there at Midway International Airport in Chicago.

Just a couple of things that he said. Of course, the first thing he mentioned was the death of the 6-year-old boy, the little boy that was killed when that aircraft skidded off the runway and toppled on top of two cars. Obviously, expressing feelings for the family and those -- those affected in those car crashes.

Also, he talked about, with regard to the aircraft, there appeared to have been no maintenance problems. It had been checked out and released with no maintenance issues at the time of flight.

He also mentioned that the captain of that aircraft has been flying for more than 10 years, but 10 years with Southwest. And then the first officer has been with Southwest a little over two years, but also flying more than that.

And now he's opened it up to questions. We've had some issues with audio. We'll see if we can get that fixed.

But in the meantime, before we got to this news conference, we were talking with Herb Stockton, former Navy pilot and also commercial airline pilot.

And you and I were discussing a number of issues. I want -- I want to tackle all of them. But, first of all, flying in conditions like this, communications between you, as a pilot, and the tower. Very important when talking about the brake action report. Explain that, because you want to make sure when you land you can land safely. STOCKTON: Well, exactly. Prior to landing when you check in with the tower they check with most airplanes landing and ask them how the braking conditions were. And after a plane lands, they tell the tower that they were either good, fair, poor or nil.

And then as you prepare to land, the tower says you're cleared to land, and they tell you braking conditions are good as reported by a 727, or whatever type of aircraft they got that report from. You use that information, then, to make your decision on your approach and whether to continue with the landing or not. If they were to report breaking conditions nil, then you probably wouldn't land.

PHILLIPS: You definitely wouldn't land.

STOCKTON: Right.

PHILLIPS: So more than likely the tower talked to the plane that had just landed previously, and the pilot probably said, "Hey, thumbs up. It was good; it was fair." That could have been the situation. And the tower gave the OK to this pilot.

Is it up to the pilot to land or is it up to the tower to tell the pilot what to do?

STOCKTON: It's up to the pilot. The pilot always has the final decision. If the airport is open and the tower gives the aircraft and the pilot clearance to land, then the pilot makes the decision whether or not he thinks it's safe.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's talk about the weather conditions. Everybody has been talking about that. Not long ago the NTSB came forward with a news conference talking about the wind and snow conditions. And this is what she had to say, the representative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONNER: Obviously, whether was a significant condition that we were all facing, we do know that the winds were 090 degrees, about 11 or 13 miles an hour. Visibility was three quarters of a mile, and there was blowing snow. The ceiling was about 300 feet and overcast. We also have pulled the air traffic control tapes and we have those and are examining those as well for the communication that was occurring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: All right. There's the conditions, according to the NTSB. According to our producer on the ground, this aircraft landed on 31-C, one of the longer runways.

STOCKTON: Correct.

PHILLIPS: So does this match the runway length with the weather conditions?

STOCKTON: Well, when you're landing in bad weather like that, you always want to look for the most favorable runway for you, the longest, the one that's most favorable with the wind. So that's what they would be looking for, is trying to find out which would be the best to land on under the conditions.

PHILLIPS: So looking at that -- those wind speeds, if that plane was coming in on that runway, is it possible it could have caught a tail wind, looking at the direction and the speed of the wind?

STOCKTON: Well, if they were landing on Runway 31 and the wind was 3090, then there might have been a -- mostly a cross wind but just a slight tail wind, which would increase the ground speed a little bit.

PHILLIPS: All right. Now put me in the mindset of the pilot. Say the speed increases, you start to feel a skid. How are you trained to deal with a plane that is skidding or getting out of control?

STOCKTON: Well, all planes when you land, spoilers pop up, which put more -- more weight on the wheels, so they brake better. This plane probably has auto brakes and has an anti-skid system. So as you land, the spoilers pop up, the brakes will come on and start slowing the aircraft down.

If you do get into a skid, then you can use differential braking to try and get out of that or actually just come off the brakes and that should help straighten the plane out. If that doesn't work, you can use differential reverse thrusts to try and get the plane going straight back down the runway.

As you slow down, then it will become more with nose wheel steering and differential brakes to keep the airplane straight. But initially it's rudders and the -- and the differential reverse thrust to help you out.

PHILLIPS: And you've -- you've flown in weather like this.

STOCKTON: Sure have.

PHILLIPS: It's -- what's it like? I mean, do you -- do you look at it like any other day or are there other checks and balances you go through? What's the mindset? I mean, you see the video and you think, oh, my gosh, I don't think I'd want to be flying through that kind of weather.

STOCKTON: Well, it's not like any other day but you can land safely in those conditions. What you want to -- what you want to know about is what the runway conditions are like, has it been plowed, has the runway been sanded, what the braking conditions are, what the winds are, how long is the runway. Various things like that you would look at to make your final decision as to whether or not it's safe to land.

PHILLIPS: Something like this, I can't imagine what's going through that pilot's mind.

STOCKTON: You know he feels awful.

PHILLIPS: Herb Stockton, thank you so much. I appreciate your insight. I know that not only commercially flying through weather like that but when you have to land on a carrier and talk about short runway, not an easy thing to do.

STOCKTON: No, but it's nice to have that tail hook back there when you do that.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely. Herb Stockton, thank you so much.

STOCKTON: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Appreciate it.

Well, a new kind of weapon is being aimed at American troops in Iraq right now. Exclusive new pictures of a deadly threat when LIVE FROM continues. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: In Iraq, insurgent weapons are becoming even deadlier. There are now improvised explosive devices, IEDs, that can penetrate the armor of U.S. vehicles.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When this vehicle was blown apart by an improvised explosive device, an IED, debris flew in every direction. IEDs remain the No. 1 killer of U.S. troops in Iraq.

But look at this picture provided to CNN by the Army. It's one of the first images shown publicly of the damage caused by a new type of IED, a so-called explosively formed projectile that can penetrate U.S. armored vehicles.

The energy of an EFP blast is focused in one direction, right at the vehicle, leaving the armor full of blast holes. In this case, four soldiers were badly wounded.

Lieutenant General Russel Honore, who trained soldiers headed for Iraq, is one of the few talking about this type of danger.

GEN. RUSSEL HONORE, U.S. ARMY: When the energy is concentrated in one area, it projects out that metal, and that metal cause -- can be effective against almost any armor, including the M-1 tank.

STARR: In this photo from May, two explosively formed projectiles hit the door, penetrating the armor. The driver was killed instantly.

Another photo shows an attack against a contractor's armored vehicle by two of the new types of bombs.

Army documents accompanying the photos call these weapons an extremely serious threat. The technology has been available for decades. Much of the information exists on the Internet. But it is new to Iraq.

Here is how they are made. One end of a steel pipe is sealed with a plate. Then the detonation turns the plate into a lethal dart that travels at a rate of more than a mile per second. It can penetrate four inches of armor from a distance of more than 300 feet, according to the Army.

U.S. and British intelligence believes Iran and Hezbollah has now provided expertise to the insurgents to make the weapons. These new bombs have even been packaged inside foam and painted gray to match concrete. And they are set off using infrared devices much like you might find on an automatic garage door.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, the deadline for -- the deadline nears for four peace activists now seized in Iraq. An insurgent group is threatening to kill the American, the Brit and two Canadian hostages tomorrow if their demands are not met.

CNN's Aneesh Raman is following that and other developments in Baghdad.

Aneesh, let's start with the latest on the hostages.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, good afternoon. As you say, just hours to go ahead of that Saturday deadline for the four western aid workers, including American Tom Fox. He was last seen on a video released on Wednesday, wearing an orange jump suit as a prisoner, blindfolded along with the British national. The two Canadians were not shown.

They've been in captivity for about two weeks now, being held by a previously unknown insurgent group calling itself Swords of Justice. Their demand is that all prisoners be released and that the U.S. and British governments begin withdrawing troops from Iraq.

Now U.S. President George Bush has said that he will not negotiate with terrorists, although they are actively trying to find the location of where Tom Fox and the others are being held. Britain's foreign secretary, Jack Straw, did invite the kidnappers to call and at least begin some dialogue with the British government, adding, though, that they would also not negotiate.

So again, we are just hours away from that deadline, a deadline that we had seen on Wednesday, Kyra, that got pushed until Saturday -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, we've been talking about the additional hostage, Ronald Schulz, possibly word that he has been killed. We have not been able to confirm that. What do you know, Aneesh?

RAMAN: Yes. Essentially, what we're being told by the U.S. government is they have no knowledge that anything has happened to Ronald Schulz. He was kidnapped on November 25, is being held by a known insurgent group, the Islamic Army in Iraq, a group known for attacks, known for beheadings. They are demanding, as well, the release of prisoners who are part of their insurgent group.

Yesterday there was text messages posted on a web site saying that he had been killed. No video, as we tend to see in these gruesome cases. And again, the U.S. government saying they have no knowledge anything has happened to him yet -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Also, as we monitor, of course, the situation with the hostages, you actually went out on the campaign trail with Allawi. What was that like? And did you get a chance to have some good conversations with him while you spent time with him?

RAMAN: I did. You know, the campaign here is fierce. These are hugely consequential elections, and secular politicians like Ayad Allawi are essentially battling the leading Shia coalition that is much more conservative, much more theocratic.

And they're out on the streets. I went to a rally that was very much like sort of a meet and greet you would see back home, except for, of course, the security situation.

Movement in campaigns is key. You want to go house to house. You want to shake as many hands as you can. In this case, the people had come to him. He had a lunch with them.

I spoke to some of the young campaign workers, some people like those we see in New Hampshire in the primaries, working endless hours because they really believe in this guy. And there are similar workers, young workers who are working for the other candidates, as well.

There is a sense that this is the future in this moment of Iraq, defining the future and setting in place some sort of system that can begin to change the present. They're aware of the historical import -- import. But changing today and tomorrow is of clear concern to the young people here -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman, live from Baghdad. Thanks, Aneesh.

Well, Congress is getting closer to approving a ban on torture. The White House has been battling a Senate passed anti-torture bill, but now there are reports House Republican leaders are nearing a deal to pass similar legislation.

CNN congressional correspondent Ed Henry joins us now from Washington. Ed, where do things stand right now?

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Basically, two congressional sources familiar with these high level talks tell CNN that the House negotiators have indicated to the Senate leaders that, in fact, they are now ready to embrace McCain's ban on torture.

This is a complete 180 from where the House negotiators started in recent weeks and months. House leaders led by Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, had been resisting this ban on torture of detainees. As you mentioned the White House has also been very resistant.

We're being told and cautioned by our sources this is not a final deal. In fact, John McCain is still privately, as he has been for days, negotiating with White House national security advisor Steven Hadley to try to massage the language in this defense bill in such a way that the White House can live with it.

But our sources are also telling us that right now the language that they've seen is virtually word for word for what McCain wrote earlier in the Senate version of this bill. So the bottom line is we're expecting a deal to be ratified, possibly as early as Monday, that would codify the McCain ban on torture by -- of detainees by U.S. personnel, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: What does this mean for Cheney, who's been lobbying McCain and others to stand down on this amendment?

HENRY: You know, Vice President Cheney, as you mentioned, has been very active. A couple of months ago, he pulled Senator McCain as well as Senator John Warner and others into a private meeting in the Capitol and pushed them very hard. He's been lobbying vigorously against this ban on torture, saying that the administration needs this flexibility in the war on terror, to not put this -- not codify this in the defense bill, not make it law.

But I can tell you that a lot of Republicans as well as Democrats are looking at this and seeing what seems to be John McCain on the verge of a victory over the vice president as yet another sign that this administration is facing stiff resistance, not just from Democrats but from Republicans on the Hill with their agenda, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now, you caught up with the Sec. Def. yesterday, I believe.

HENRY: That's right.

PHILLIPS: Did you get a chance to ask him any questions about this? Knowing you, you went after it.

HENRY: Well, you know, the Bush administration has been facing, if you've seen Secretary of State Rice this week, internationally, has been facing intense pressure, other administration officials as well, to go on the record against the use of torture. You're right, I did catch up with the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld in a Capitol hallway yesterday. He did not seem in the mood to talk about this issue. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Sir, is the administration giving in on the McCain torture amendment? Are you goig to accept the language?

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The White House has been doing all of this. You'll have to talk to him.

HENRY: But you're the defense secretary. Are you accepting the torture amendment in the McCain language? Presumably this is your area.

RUMSFELD: I've said to you the White House is handling the negotiation on language (ph). (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: So there you have it. The defense secretary saying he's not really involved in these negotiations, even though this is really his area of responsibility.

This coming, of course, at a time of great speculation that maybe the secretary will be leaving at the end of the year or the beginning of next year. Of course, he has shot down those rumors for now, saying he's not going anywhere, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ed Henry, great job. Thanks so much, Ed.

HENRY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, straight ahead -- well, if you light up, you will be let go is what I'm being told, even if it's in the privacy of your own home. We're going to explain one boss's controversial new policy a little bit later on LIVE FROM. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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