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New Orleans Mayor Positive about Levee Plans; Congress Nears Compromises on Torture Amendment; Big Turnout, Little Violence for Iraq Elections

Aired December 15, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: From CNN's world headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia, I'm Kyra Phillips. Here's the stories that we're working on for you right now.
More money to rebuild New Orleans' levees, is it enough? We're going to talk with Mayor Ray Nagin about the announcement from the White House.

Election day in Iraq, what does it mean for that country and for getting American troops home?

All that and more, straight ahead. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

U.S. senators, emergency officials, mayors, and even the president, all talking levees today: specifically, why those meant to protect New Orleans didn't. And how to pay for a new, hopefully improved levee system.

Federal emergency officials met behind closed doors of the Oval Office this morning. They emerged with optimism and a dollar figure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON POWELL, GULF COAST RECOVERY DIRECTOR: First is to repair the breaches, the breaches that occurred as a result of Katrina. Second is to correct the design and construction flaws within the system.

Third is to bring the levee height to preauthorized height area pre-Katrina. That's very important. That work is being done as we speak.

Today, the president is requesting another $1.5 billion to do the following: one is to armor the levee system with concrete and stone. Very important, as it relates to breach of the levee system.

Two, close three interior canals. Close three interior canals.

Third is to provide state of the art pumping systems so that the water will flow out of the canals into -- through the lake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, one man who attended that Oval Office meeting today, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin. He joins me now live from the North Lawn of the White House.

Mayor, good to see you.

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: It's good to see you also, even though I'm not really seeing you.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're sort of seeing each other. At least we're hearing each other. That's the most important.

NAGIN: I hear you.

PHILLIPS: It's all about sound in New Orleans, right?

NAGIN: That's what's it's all about.

PHILLIPS: So let's talk about what happened today. Just overall feelings. Are you feeling good? Are you feeling maybe just a little better? Or is it still a long way to go?

NAGIN: You know, I'm feeling pretty good. You know, the announcement today was very significant, from a couple of different standpoints.

It reaffirmed the commitment by the court to rebuild the levee systems prior to the next hurricane season, which is June of next year. There's $1.6 billion that the president originally asked for. They're enhancing that by asking for another $1.5 billion to fortify the levees, to build them to standards that we have never seen in New Orleans, with concrete and stone.

And then finally, to move the pumping stations near the lake, to allow us to have the best state of the art pumping system that the world knows. So there was some significant announcements today.

PHILLIPS: So we're talking $3.1 billion. That's what the Bush administration is announcing. If you look at other reports, Mayor, early estimates run as high as $32 billion to fix these levees, bring them up to be able to handle a Category 5 hurricane. So is this enough money, my first question?

NAGIN: Well, it's enough money to give us protection that we've never had. Our levee system heights -- when Katrina hit -- were probably 12 to 15 feet. This design will bring the heights as high as 17 feet.

The big debate I think you're referring to is whether we should immediately build to Category 5 standards, not only in New Orleans, but throughout the Gulf Coast of Louisiana. And I was encouraged that there's also study money that's been put into this bill to the tune of $4.6 million this year and I believe $8 million next year, to study how to go to higher standards. And that's where the debate will ultimately end up.

PHILLIPS: So right now, you're OK, you feel OK if you hear from the president's mouth or anybody else's mouth, that this is the amount of money that you're going to get, and it's not going to meet Category 5 standards, but it's a start. You're OK with that, right now?

NAGIN: Here's what I'm OK with. If another Katrina hit New Orleans, and this system was put in place, we wouldn't have the devastation and amount of flooding that we had with this last storm. That makes me feel very -- a lot better.

PHILLIPS: So to get it to Category 5 standards, I also -- I was reading, it could take up to 30 years. Do you agree with that?

NAGIN: Well, you know, I've read lots of different things. And the problem with Category 5, is there's no real science for that. Nobody has done it. There's a system in the Netherlands that we've been studying. But there's really nothing that is designed that any scientists are coalescing behind, that say, this is how to do it, and, more importantly, this is how much it's going to cost.

So we don't know if it's going to cost $10 billion, $30 billion. We don't know if it's going to take 10 years or 30 years or 50 years. We just don't know right now, and that's why we're going to study it.

PHILLIPS: All right. So two questions: who's going to design this?

NAGIN: It's my understanding the Corps of Engineers is designing this levee system with the help of other experts from around the world.

PHILLIPS: Do you have faith in the Army Corps of Engineers? It's the Army Corps of Engineers that designed the last levee system.

NAGIN: Well, I have faith from this perspective. If the state of Louisiana, which the governor yesterday said that she's going to push for a true consolidation of all the levee boards that are responsible for the maintenance and the upkeep of those levees, is combined with the Corps of Engineers in a new, improved design, fortified levees, that's bringing some of the best experts from around the world, then I think we can get this job done.

PHILLIPS: And you know, we've been talking so much about the Dutch and how amazing the Dutch system is, the levee system. Will they be participating, scientists from the Netherlands, with the Army Corps of Engineers?

NAGIN: It's my understanding they will. The Dutch and the Germans were incredible during the de-watering process in New Orleans. They brought pumps; they brought expertise. They were warriors and heroes, and we owe them a significant debt of gratitude.

PHILLIPS: All right. Lakeview area and also lower Ninth Ward, obviously the two areas that got just completely wiped out and devastated. Do you want those areas rebuilt? Or should these be areas that should maybe be flattened, turned into something else, and not living area, not residential areas?

NAGIN: I think the entire city of New Orleans will be rebuilt, including the area around the 17th Street Canal and the lower Ninth Ward. What we're trying to decide now with community input is how to rebuild. How do we rebuild smarter?

Do we build single story slab homes in an area we know is most susceptible to flooding, or do we go with multilevel structures, where the first floor's parking or storage and then people live on the second and third floors? That's the debate and that's what we're going to figure out.

PHILLIPS: So I'm curious, are you going to run for another term, Mayor Nagin?

NAGIN: I am running. I am running for another term.

PHILLIPS: You are. This is the official announcement right now?

NAGIN: Look, I have a lot of experience invested. I have blood, sweat and tears. Besides, if I dropped out now, the citizens probably would kill me and tar and feather me.

PHILLIPS: Mayor Ray Nagin, right there on the lawn in front of the White House, thanks for your time, sir.

NAGIN: Thank you so much for your coverage.

PHILLIPS: My pleasure.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is in New Orleans. He's there on the ground. He of course has been spending a lot of time with the Army Corps of Engineers, spending time with this levee system.

Ed, your overall impressions on what the mayor had to say, this announcement by the administration? I'm still confused. Even though it's a lot of money coming forward it still doesn't seem to be enough to get it to Category 5 standards.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's clear, you know, you heard in the press briefing that they did a little while ago and from your questions, everyone pretty much stopping short of saying, and as the mayor was saying that, you know, the idea of Category 5 protection.

And let's be frank about this, the reason we're talking about it so much is that that is what people here in New Orleans are pretty much demanding. Anywhere you go in this city, and you ask people, this is how this debate and this issue is framed for many people here.

They say Category 5 protection is needed. They kept talking over and over that another Katrina-like catastrophe won't happen here. But Katrina here in New Orleans was a Category 3 store. People here aren't really worried about Hurricane Katrina anymore. What they're worried about is a Hurricane Andrew, a Category 5 storm. And that is, frankly, what this debate is kind of squared away, and the terms under which it's being debated here, by the people here in the city.

You know, we've heard over and over again that people will not come back, businesses will not come back if they're not assured that this will not happen again. And they talk about it, as I mentioned before, as well, that they talk about it in terms of this city withering and dying away if that doesn't happen.

The Army Corps of Engineers has also been struggling over the last couple of weeks. Allegations that the levees weren't even originally built the way they were supposed to. They had a big public event at the 17th Street Canal levee to show that they were, indeed, what they hope will prove, that the levees were, indeed, built the way they were supposed to have been and deep enough.

But right now, they're still trying to assess whether or not the current design that exists here in the New Orleans area is the kind of design that can withstand a much stronger storm. So at this point, they're not even sure exactly what design will be able to withstand a much stronger storm if one were to come here in the future.

PHILLIPS: Ed Lavandera, live from New Orleans, thanks, Ed.

We're just getting word now that Republican Senator John McCain has reached a deal with the White House over McCain's efforts to ban use of torture against terrorism suspect. Senator McCain held a strong hand during the negotiations. His proposal already passed the Senate. Yesterday, the house endorsed the idea as well. The White House had threatened a veto, arguing that McCain's proposal would have limited presidential authority.

For more now on the agreement between Senator McCain and the White House, let's get to our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry.

Ed, there was a lot of pressure on both sides of this. What do you think led to somewhat of an agreement now?

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of factors. International pressure on the Bush administration to drop its opposition, first of all.

But second of all, lawmakers up here are trying to get out of town for the holidays. This is one of the last pieces of business. And they start smelling that jet fuel to head home for the holidays. And all of a sudden, you see all kinds of breakthroughs. Over the next 48 hours, we're going to see a flurry of activity.

What we have here is a breakthrough, an agreement in principle, according to various Republican officials on the Hill. But I want to stress, not a final deal. What the breakthrough is, as you mention, is that after months of opposition, the White House, according to various Republicans up here, finally agreeing to a tweaked version of John McCain's ban on the use of torture on detainees.

We do not have what the tweaks are yet; all that is going on behind closed doors. But the reason why it's not final is that there are some very powerful Republican lawmakers who still have to sign off on these tweaks.

There was a big meeting just a few moments ago that wrapped up between the Senate Armed Services chairman, John Warner, who's on board with the McCain ban on torture, and the House Armed Services chairman, Duncan Hunter, who has been previously opposed but has been moving slowly towards the McCain position.

After that meeting, Senator Warner said he expects that later this afternoon, they will, quote, "put ink to paper and seal this deal." And then Representative Hunter told CNN's Andrea Koppel that it's close but there's still a lot of details to be worked out. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: And that bill, of course, includes a -- includes package on detainee treatment. And we're working to merge the two vital American goals of treating people humanly and, at the same time, maintaining an effective intelligence gathering system.

We think we're going to be successful. And we're coming down to the closing strokes. Senator Warner and his staff have been working with our people very effectively. And we think we're about ready to do something that's good for the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: And there's wide speculation here on the Hill among Republican officials that Senator McCain may even be headed over to the White House later this afternoon to formally seal this with the White House. But I want to stress no official confirmation from the White House, and Senator McCain's office is still not saying anything about this deal -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, Ed, quickly, just with regard to tactics. If you're talk about the military, you're talking about civilian interrogators, and then you're talking about CIA, is there a possibility that they would all have the same rights, when it comes to interrogation tactics, or torture, of some sort, or will it be defined that each one of those entities will have different rights?

HENRY: We don't have the language now, but I can tell you from the push that we've seen in recent days, is there's been a strong push up here among various Republicans to make sure there's a level playing field.

There has been concern up here from McCain and others that maybe there was a loophole in the existing law. And that it was only U.S. personnel that were covered by the ban on torture. But that basically contractors hired by the CIA could do the dirty work, if you will. And you could technically say U.S. service personnel are not -- they're not torturing anyone, but meanwhile, contractors were doing it.

What McCain and others want to do is make sure it's all across the board clear and final, full ban on torture. We'll wait and see what the final language says, though, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ed Henry, we'll stay in touch, thanks so much.

Straight ahead, we're going to check in on the Iraqi election, LIVE FROM Baghdad.

And also coming up, a story you're going to see only on CNN. In New York, doctors and funeral homes accused of selling body parts for profit. CNN's Deborah Feyerick investigates.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Fingers are purple and hearts are light on a red letter day in democratic Iraq. A whole lot more than a bone fide parliament is at stake in that country's third nationwide election this year. And indications are the third time really was a charm. Heavy turnout, even among Sunnis, relatively light violence, strong hopes for a government that all sides can call their own.

CNN's Aneesh Raman fills us in on the end of the voting and the start of the counting. He joins us live from Baghdad.

Aneesh, quite a statement today.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was, Kyra.

Millions of Iraqis pouring out, as you say, in the Kurdish north and the Shia south, but also in Sunni areas. Really, not trying to go through a symbolic exercise in democracy, but with very real concerns. And today was a critically important first step. We've reached the end of the transition period now, laying the roots of the permanent democracy.

And the people who came out today said this four-year government has certain responsibilities. The Iraqi want -- the Iraqis want securities -- the security situation dealt with. They want basic needs guaranteed. And they want compromise among their political leaders.

So the chances now incumbent upon the leader we'll see come into office next year to deliver to the Iraqi people, to deliver to the world, but a huge amount of faith are being poured into this process today, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about when we could see official results. How long do you think it will take?

RAMAN: I don't know if the American public would have the patience, but Iraqis will have to wait to see. Two weeks until election results are certified. And that's when the political bargaining begins. None of these lists are going to have enough seats to have an absolute majority. So they're going to have to form a coalition.

And in those discussions, everything will be up for grabs: the constitution, the security situation, troop withdrawal time lines. All of that could be discussed early on, which means we could have weeks, maybe a month or two before a coalition is formed and a prime minister is named, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Aneesh, not a lot of violence, especially if you compare it to the other elections that have taken place. What can we say that is -- is that owed to Iraqi police and military? Is it U.S. troop training of Iraqis? Is it just the attitude is changing? Is it less insurgents? What do you think?

RAMAN: Well, it's perhaps a mix of everything. Two main points, though. First, the country's under virtual lockdown. No travel allowed. The borders have been closed.

But Iraqi security forces have been manning these stations, these polling stations for days. They have been the face of the operation. It's a huge security presence around election day.

The second, from Sunni politicians that I've spoken to, is that the domestic insurgency really is waiting this process out. They have allowed themselves to withdraw, if you will, from the violence, and they're waiting to see how this government form, what type of government takes shape, and what kind of a voice the Sunnis have.

So there is a potential, in addition to everything else, for a split perhaps in the insurgency, the domestic insurgents and the jihadists like Zarqawi. And that all, again, is incumbent on this government really delivering to the people here.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman, live from Baghdad, thanks, Aneesh.

Well, Iraqis abroad began voting Tuesday in 15 countries, the U.S. among them. Here, the State Department estimates almost a quarter million expats were eligible to express their views in five states.

Reporter Gary Nuremberg is live in McLean, Virginia.

Gary, good turnout.

GARY NUREMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra.

Neither rain, sleet nor slow were able to keep some of these Iraqi nationals away from the polling place here in McLean today. It's the third day of voting, and officials here say about 1,400 persons had voted when the polls opened for business at 9 a.m. this morning.

There are only five polling places in the United States, so McLean is drawing Iraqi nationals from throughout the northeast. We've talked to people who drove here from New York, from Massachusetts, and from other places, hundreds of miles away, in order to cast their ballots.

Abdul Al-Mugotir was born in Iraq, left when he was 5, was most recently in the country about three weeks ago. Now lives in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Abdul, why take the time, spend the money, make the effort, to come all the way here to vote?

ABDUL AL-MUGOTIR: I think it's going to pay off. It's going to pay off for all Iraqis. It's going to pay off for all the world that Iraq is stable. And I think my vote here will count. And I think it's worth all the money in the world to come and do this vote.

NUREMBERG: Are you optimistic that this will bring a working democracy to your country?

AL-MUGOTIR: Most definitely. Most definitely. I think there's a lot of things going on right, Saddam's trial and the voting, and this is the four-year voting for the new president. And I think there's nothing -- nothing can go wrong. Nothing but good is going to happen.

NUREMBERG: You're 20 years old?

AL-MUGOTIR: Yes.

NUREMBERG: This is your first Election?

AL-MUGOTIR: Yes, it is.

NUREMBERG: Show me your finger. I want you to steal the line from your friend. When I asked him about his finger what did he say?

AL-MUGOTIR: Yes, we were sitting over here talking. He said that we're not dipping our fingers in ink; we're dipping our fingers in freedom.

NUREMBERG: Abdul, thank you very, very much.

AL-MUGOTIR: You're very welcome.

NUREMBERG: Kyra, polls open until 9 p.m. tonight. Apparently, we're not going to get results out of Baghdad or out of Iraq until several days from now. But the votes will be counted here, and we should get some early results maybe after midnight.

PHILLIPS: Sounds good, Gary. We'll keep checking in with you. Thank you so much.

Well, coming up on LIVE FROM, up the creek without a paddle. Imagine seven million commuters thumbing their way to work. Oh, yes, in New York City, a possible transit strike looms. We're going to have that story in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": President George Bush has had quite a ride in 2005 and is the key decision maker in a year when the news never stopped. President Bush is a candidate for "TIME" magazine's "Person of the Year."

LISA BEYER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, "TIME": There is rarely a year when the person who most affects the news, for better or worse, isn't the leader of the free world, the president of the United States of America.

So, given that that's the case, certainly in the year 2005, when the president of the United States was the one who was waging a war in Iraq, and trying to make the region and bring democracy to Iraq and that was having great consequences for the region as a whole, given that the president of the United States was the one who was called upon to answer the greatest national disaster in this country, the Katrina disaster, which was huge. It was a huge story.

The president was -- was really at the center of all of the biggest stories of the year. And could arguably be, once again, the "Person of the Year."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, in parts of the east today, it's a winter wonderland and a great day to stay indoors, if you still have power, that is. There was ice as far as north Georgia this morning, with sleet and snow further northward.

Let's get a fix on what's happening out there right now. Bonnie Schneider in the weather center.

Hey, Bonnie.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right. Sounds good, we'll keep talking to you, Bonnie. Thanks so much.

Well, crunch time in the Big Apple. Negotiators are trying to iron out a last minute deal to avert a threatened transit strike. Transit workers are set to walk off the job at midnight.

Now, a strike would throw the nation's largest city into chaos. Can you just imagine? Seven million subway and bus riders would be affected. Officials say that a strike would have a devastating affect on the economy, costing the city $400 million to $600 million a day in lost business. The cost of overtime for police officers would total an additional $10 million a day.

Now a big win for big tobacco. Susan Lisovicz has that story from the New York Stock Exchange.

But first, Susan, do you take the subway to work?

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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