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Senator John McCain Closes in on Deal to Ban Torture; New York Authorities Seek to Avert Transit Worker Strike; The Singing News Anchor
Aired December 15, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Republican Senator John McCain emerged from the White House moments ago. He just wrapped up a meeting with the president. And he's close to putting the final touches on a deal to ban the use of torture against terror suspects.
McCain has been in a political standoff with the White House for months over this issue.
For more, let's go to CNN's Elaine Quijano. She's standing by live at the White House -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.
And to take a step back a little bit, of course, the president had said that -- had indicated that he would veto this amendment. But, in recent months, in recent weeks, it became clear that the White House was shifting its -- its language.
We heard last week, in fact, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, while on a trip in Europe, use the very language in this amendment about U.S. personnel everywhere being prohibited from be engaging in cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees -- and the White House certainly reaching this compromise amid some intense pressure, not just here at home, but also the international community as well -- as I mentioned, Secretary Rice in Europe answering some tough questions about the United States' policy on torture -- the president himself bringing that up in a recent meeting with a visiting European leader, the chancellor of Austria -- but, also, the president facing some political pressure, of course, here at home -- members of Congress throwing their support behind the McCain amendment.
And, so, the president understanding, the White House understanding, the difficult political dilemma, if you will, of trying to still oppose Senator McCain on this issue, Senator McCain, of course, a former POW who spent years in captivity in Vietnam -- the White House, though, by appearing with Senator McCain in the Oval Office, trying to come -- to come out and show that, in fact, they have accepted Senator McCain's amendment.
But, certainly, that was not the administration's first position on this issue -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Elaine Quijano, live from the White House -- thanks, Elaine. And the White House is reacting today to a suggestion that President Bush knows the name of the leaker who outed Valerie Plame as a CIA agent. None other than Robert Novak is making that claim. Novak was the first reporter to run with the story back in 2003. That was wife of war critic Joe Wilson as a U.S. intelligence operative.
Novak's reporting was based on sources. And the hunt to find them has led to the indictment of former Cheney chief of staff Lewis Scooter Libby, plus the continuing investigation into Karl Rove, President Bush's chief political operative.
Now, in a speech this week, Novak said -- quote -- "I'm confident the president knows who the source is. So, don't bug me," Novak said. "Bug the president."
At the White House today, this response from White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan. He was asked about Novak's assertion that President Bush knows the leaker. McClellan said -- quote -- "I don't know what he's basing that on."
And, for the record, prosecution special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald already has interviewed President Bush. He questioned the president for more than an hour in June of 2004.
And, at the U.S. Senate and at the Oval Office here, how to keep the city of New Orleans above water, when, not if, another hurricane roars in from the Gulf -- now, you can't plug a busted levee with money, but federal officials today promised to spend more than $3 billion to make New Orleans more flood-proof than ever.
After that announcement from the White House, I spoke to an optimistic Mayor Ray Nagin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAY NAGIN (D), MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: You know, I'm feeling pretty good. You know, the announcement today was very significant, from a couple -- a of different standpoints.
It reaffirmed the commitment by the court to rebuild the levee systems prior to the next hurricane season, which is June of next year. There's $1.6 billion that the president originally asked for. They're enhancing that by asking for another $1.5 billion to fortify the levees, to build them to standards that we have never seen in New Orleans, with concrete and stone, and then, finally, to move the pumping stations near the lake, to allow us to have the best state-of- the-art pumping system that the world knows. So, there was some significant announcements today.
PHILLIPS: So, we're talking $3.1 billion. That's what the Bush administration is announcing. Now, if you look at other reports, Mayor, early estimates run as high as $32 billion to fix these levees, to bring them up to be able to handle a Category 5 hurricane. So, is this enough money, my first question?
NAGIN: Well, it's enough money to give us protection that we've never had. Our levee system heights, when Katrina hit, were probably 12 to 13 feet. This design will bring the heights as high as 17 feet.
The big debate I think you're referring to is whether we should immediately build to Category 5 standards, not only in New Orleans, but throughout the Gulf Coast of Louisiana. And I -- I was encouraged that there's also study money that has been put into this bill, to the tune of $4.6 million this year and I believe $8 million next year, to study how to go to higher standards. And that's where the debate will ultimately end up.
PHILLIPS: So, right now, you're OK? You feel OK if you hear from the president's mouth or anybody else's mouth that this is the amount of money that you're going to get, and it's not going to meet Category 5 standards, but it's a start? You're OK with that right now?
NAGIN: Here's what I'm OK with. If another Katrina hit New Orleans, and this system was put in place, we wouldn't have the devastation and amount of flooding that we had where -- with this last storm. That makes me feel very -- a -- a lot better.
PHILLIPS: So, to get it to Category 5 standards, I also -- I was reading it could take up to 30 years. Do you agree with that?
NAGIN: Well, you know, I have read lots of different things. And the problem with Category 5 is, there's no real science for that. Nobody has done it. There's a system in the Netherlands that we've been studying. But there's really nothing that is designed that any scientists are coalescing behind to say, this is how to do it, and, more importantly, this is how much it's going to cost.
So, we don't know if it's going to cost $10 billion, $30 billion. We don't know if it's going to take 10 years or 30 years or 50 years. We just don't know right now, and that's why we're going to study it.
PHILLIPS: All right. So two questions -- who's going to design this?
NAGIN: It's my understanding, the Corps of Engineers is designing this levee system with the help of other experts from around the world.
PHILLIPS: Do you have faith in the Army Corps of Engineers? It's the Army Corps of Engineers that designed the last levee system.
NAGIN: Well, I have faith from this perspective.
If the state of Louisiana, which the governor yesterday said that she's going to push for a true consolidation of all the levee boards that are responsible for the maintenance and the upkeep of those levees, is combined with the Corps of Engineers in a new, improved design, fortified levees that is bringing some of the best experts from around the world, then I think we can get this job done.
PHILLIPS: And you know we've been talking so much about the Dutch and how amazing the Dutch system is, the levee system. Will they be participating, scientists from the Netherlands, with the Army Corps of Engineers?
NAGIN: It's my understanding they will. The Dutch and the Germans were incredible during the dewatering process in New Orleans. They brought pumps; they brought expertise. They were warriors and heroes, and we owe them a significant debt of gratitude.
PHILLIPS: All right, Lakeview area and also Lower Ninth Ward, obviously, the two areas that got just completely wiped out and devastated.
NAGIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Do you want those areas rebuilt? Or should these be areas that should maybe be flattened, turned into something else, and not living area, not residential areas?
NAGIN: I think the entire city of New Orleans will be rebuilt, including the area around the 17th Street Canal and the Lower Ninth Ward.
What we're trying to decide now, and with community input, is how to rebuild. How do we rebuild smarter? Do we build single-story slab homes in an area we know is most susceptible to flooding, or do we go with multilevel structures, where the first floor is parking or storage, and then people live on the second and third floors? That's the debate, and that's what we're going to figure out.
PHILLIPS: So, I'm curious. Are you going to run for another term, Mayor Nagin?
NAGIN: I am running. I am running for another term.
PHILLIPS: You are? This is the official announcement right now?
NAGIN: Look, I have a lot of experience invested. I have blood, sweat and tears. Besides, if I dropped out now, the citizens probably would kill me and tar and feather me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, negotiators in New York are trying to iron out a last-minute deal to avert a transit strike.
Transit workers set to walk off the job at midnight. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has announced a contingency plan to reduce danger and inconvenience, in case of a strike.
CNN senior correspondent Allan Chernoff is live at Penn Station in New York with the latest.
Isn't it true that he was suggesting that everybody either walk or ride their bikes, if this happens, Allan?
(LAUGHTER)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's not possible, but he certainly wants as many New Yorkers to walk or ride their bicycles, if there were to be a strike.
Now, it often seems that these contract negotiations go down to the wire very frequently. But, at this late stage, you might expect to begin hearing of progress at the negotiation table. That is not the case right now. In fact, to the contrary, we're hearing a continuing war of words between labor and management.
This morning, the chairman of the Metropolitan Transit Authority, Peter Kalikow, warned the union not only not to strike, but also to submit to binding arbitration if a deal can't be hammered out at the negotiating table. The head of the union rejected that call and said that management is trying to take advantage of a very tough environment for organized labor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER TOUSSAINT, PRESIDENT, TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION LOCAL 100: So, what you here is a scandalous attempt on the part of the MTA to jump on a -- on -- on the bandwagon of an adverse national climate.
We said yesterday that we will not agree to arbitration. We continue to maintain that position today. And we will continue to maintain that position tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: Bargaining is continuing across town.
And the key issues remain wages, pensions and the union's proposed contribution to its health insurance. Right now, union members do not have to pay for that health insurance. But the mayor is planning. He has a big contingency plan right ahead. And it's not only involving people walking and riding their bikes, but also cars coming into Midtown and Lower Manhattan. They would have to carry at least four passengers during the morning rush hour.
Taxis also would be permitted to pick up many passengers during one single ride. So, certainly, the city is going to do whatever it can to accommodate the situation, if in fact there is a strike -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now, there have been threats before, but the last actual strike was, what, 1980?
CHERNOFF: That's right ,25 years ago. So, it's been a very long time. And, as I said, we have had many of these threats in the past. The negotiations have gone down to the wire.
It happened, in fact, three years ago. We went past the deadline. And the day after the deadline was when they finally did reach a settlement.
PHILLIPS: Allan Chernoff, we will stay on top of it. Thank you.
Well, sorry, folks. News broke out last hour, so, we could not get to the singing newsman. But do you hear what I hear? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON DE ROXTRA, RADIO NEWS ANCHOR (singing): George Bush burned last weekend when a big tanker caught on fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: Yes, it is he. His name is Ron de Roxtra. There he is. See, look at the face.
It goes right with the voice, Ron.
He can hear it. It's beautiful. It's music. He's got more tunes than a Broadway opening night. He's set to sing his way through the headlines right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Traffic and weather, the morning's top stories -- it sounds like the usual morning drive in just about any big city, right? Well, not in Dallas.
That's where commuters can hear a news anchor who has decided to put a musical flair to the morning headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE ROXTRA (singing): Now here's news coming on with a song, as our style for a while will light up your dial with song.
Part of what George Bush burned last weekend, when a big tanker caught on fire. Concrete got damaged. Now they got...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: That's radio news anchor Ron de Roxtra. He joins me now live from Dallas, where he sings the headlines for the "Ankarlo" morning show on 570 KLIF.
So, Ron, was this your idea?
DE ROXTRA: No, it wasn't, actually. It was Jeff Hillery, who is our news director. And he was thinking of something -- just some fun thing to do.
And one of the things we thought about was -- or he thought about -- was singing the newscast. And, so, I kind of sat down, and kind of went over some headlines, and put some stuff down, and put it to music. And off we went.
PHILLIPS: So, were you the only one that tried out for the gig? Were there a number of people saying, hey, I have got a great voice? Were there other people saying, Ron, he's crazy enough; he will do it? DE ROXTRA: No, actually, Kyra, I have a -- a showbiz background. I have done some movies. I have done stage, musical stage, not a tenor singer, but a belter, like for musical comedy.
And, so, I had a little bit of a background. But, no, it was an audition of one. It was my news director and me.
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: He said, OK, you're the guy.
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: So, we put it down and did it, and then played it three times on the newscast, at 8:00 in the "Ankarlo" morning show on KLIF, and then at noon, and then in the afternoon at 6:00, on our afternoon show, "The Greg Knapp Show," and then had people go to the Web site, KLIF.com, and vote whether they wanted more singing newscasts.
PHILLIPS: Now, so, is it going to well? Are the ratings good? Tell me about the e-mails and the calls and the feedback that you have received.
DE ROXTRA: Well, they voted on our Web site.
They went to KLIF.com and voted. And 82 percent said they want more musical newscasts. So, while it might be OK for me, I think that our -- our creative imaging guy, Dave Mefford (ph), who did all of the music, I don't know that he wants to work that hard...
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: ... because it took about five hours to put it together. But it was a lot of fun.
PHILLIPS: Now, are you involved at the -- with the writing at all?
DE ROXTRA: I did the writing. I did all the writing.
PHILLIPS: OK.
DE ROXTRA: And -- and -- and Dave Mefford (ph) and I sat down with the music. And, then, we kind of put it together. Then he edited everything. And then we put it on the air yesterday.
PHILLIPS: So, your background is actually in -- in music and theater, not in journalism, or -- or a little bit of both?
(CROSSTALK)
DE ROXTRA: Little bit...
PHILLIPS: How did it happen?
DE ROXTRA: Little bit of both, actually.
I -- I -- I got into journalism because of another job. I was an air traffic controller back in 1981 and was part of the whole PATCO thing, and -- and got out of that, and got into radio as a traffic reporter. And, then, I had done a lot of acting prior to that, summer stock and things, and got back into the acting thing, and then started making money at it.
So, I started doing commercials in Dallas and did a couple of films and a lot of TV shows, and went to L.A. for a couple years and tried it there. And then family things and life changes, and we wound up back in Dallas.
PHILLIPS: Well, what do you think? Do you think other people are going to start doing this?
DE ROXTRA: I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to start a trend or not.
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: But you had -- you had -- last hour, you had Nathan Lane on. And I'm thinking, Broadway, "Producers," that's a tough act to follow.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: Yes, it -- no doubt.
DE ROXTRA: Yes.
PHILLIPS: But you know what? It keeps reinventing itself. So, you never know.
DE ROXTRA: It does. Maybe, the next time, I will pantomime the news, and we will -- we will just do that and...
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: ... and do it over the Web or something. That would be kind of cool.
PHILLIPS: So, has anyone written in or called and said, OK, you drive me crazy; I can't take this in the morning, Ron?
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: We had a couple -- well, we had a couple of guys that wrote in. One guy said, hey, Ron, don't quit your day job.
We had one lady write me. And she said, I love your singing. My cat loved it, too. In fact, every cat in the neighborhood liked it.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: So, it was kind of fun. We got the response we wanted. So, that was good.
PHILLIPS: Now we know your listenership.
DE ROXTRA: Yes.
PHILLIPS: All right, Ron, so, you have -- you have prepared a little something for us.
DE ROXTRA: Yes.
PHILLIPS: You're going -- you're going to take us to the next break, right?
DE ROXTRA: Sure. I will -- will do that.
And -- and we had a teacher in North Texas last week that -- that, unfortunately, told her kids that Santa Claus did not exist.
PHILLIPS: Oh.
DE ROXTRA: And, so, I thought, you know, if I was going to do that story -- pardon the glasses.
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA: But, if I was going to do the story, I would do it this way.
PHILLIPS: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
DE ROXTRA (singing): Jingle bells, Christmas smells, cookies, cakes and pies. Kids are watching Santa with big and wanting eyes. When teacher told the kiddos that there was no Saint Nick, it saddened all the children and put the parents in a snit.
But she took it back and apologized, and delight the kids did squeal when she told them Santa called her to say that he was real.
PHILLIPS: Aww.
DE ROXTRA: So, there it is.
PHILLIPS: Ron, you're a poet as well.
DE ROXTRA: Well, I -- you know, Charles Osgood, I'm not, but I try.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: It's...
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: I love it. I can't wait to go to Dallas, Texas, and listen to morning show. If you're there...
DE ROXTRA: Come on down.
PHILLIPS: OK. Listen to the "Ankarlo" morning show, 570 KLIF.
DE ROXTRA: Five to 9:00, Monday through Friday, you bet.
PHILLIPS: Ron de Roxtra, what a pleasure.
DE ROXTRA: Thanks, Kyra. And merry Christmas.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Ron.
DE ROXTRA: OK.
PHILLIPS: Same to you.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: Well, Mona Lisa, she is one of the most famous paintings of all time. Her mysterious smile, though, has kept people guessing for hundreds of years. What do you think is on her mind? Guess what? Well, we know.
We're going to tell you straight ahead on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: After months of resistance, the White House has finally decided to accept Senator John McCain's plan with regard to torture of terror suspects in this war on terror.
David Ensor, national security correspondent, joins us now.
And, David, we have been trying to find out more details about what exactly is laid out in this new plan, McCain saying, look, we decided -- or came to an agreement on how the Army manual is going to lay out to interrogate, and, then, number two, that they will be tortured.
But when it comes to CIA and civilian interrogators, we still are not quite sure what they will be able to do.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they're still waiting to see the actual fine print, the -- the black and white, when it's made law and signed by the president.
But -- but, that said, the real -- what comes -- what it comes down to, Kyra, is a definition of the term cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. How do you define that? And, up until now, that has been defined under regulations approved by the Justice Department that the CIA and contractors and others who might be interrogating prisoners have been obliged to follow.
Now, that same set of regulations are -- are going to become law. It's going to be the law of the land, that you can't use cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment against prisoners, even if they're al Qaeda bosses being held overseas.
Now, some of the things that I understand have been allowed under the regulations that the Justice Department has -- has had in place up until now -- and those were approved, we understand, by the White House, include, you know, forced standing, dark cells, loud music, sleep deprivation, and slaps.
They did include, earlier on, in the -- in the -- in the post- 9/11 period waterboarding, which, of course, is the famous -- now famous technique -- or infamous technique -- under which a -- a prisoner is turned sideways, so that his feet are above his head, and he's made to think that he's drowning for a minute or two to try to get him to tell things.
Now, U.S. officials say some of these rather harsh interrogation techniques have drawn intelligence from prisoners that has saved a lot of American and European lives. The question is whether this passage is going to change any of that.
Really, it isn't clear at this point, because it depends on how the Justice Department decides to define cruel, inhuman and degrading. And the law, at least as far as what we have heard so far, doesn't specifically lay down which techniques are to be made illegal.
PHILLIPS: So, in -- in the past, CIA, civilian interrogators, and the military have sort of operated under different torture tactics. Is that right? And, then, it's possible that all three entities now may be operating under one?
ENSOR: Well, I think, really, this is addressing itself to -- I mean, there is a military code. It's rather clear.
It's -- it's in black and white already. And the military follows it. Abu Ghraib was -- was an exception, but that -- those people are being prosecuted. They're going to jail. But the CIA has these top al Qaeda prisoners overseas. And, really, this is mostly addressed to, how do they treat those prisoners?
And it's a very difficult issue, because, on the one hand, you do want to get any intelligence you can that might save lives. On the other, the -- as Mr. -- Senator McCain said, the country doesn't want to be seen as torturing or committing cruel and inhuman and degrading treatment to anybody.
PHILLIPS: David Ensor, national security correspondent -- thanks, David.
ENSOR: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Practice makes, well, not perfect, but, apparently, for the most part, fairly successful elections in Iraq. That country's third nationwide balloting in a single turbulent year was probably the smoothest, possibly the least violent, with, by far, the biggest turnout.
At stake is a full-fledged four-year parliament, from which will come a government that all sides will see as legitimate -- at least, that's the hope of the outgoing government and many other governments, including the one in Washington, where President Bush met with Iraqi expats who voted in Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And there's a lot of -- lot of joy, as far as I'm concerned, in seeing the Iraqi people accomplish this major milestone in the march to democracy.
There's -- millions of people voted. And I haven't seen all the tabulations of the vote, but we're -- we are certain that the turnout was significant and that the violence was down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Polls opened in Iraq at 7:00 a.m., 11:00 p.m. Eastern time. And it's safe to say that the earliest voters were among the most enthusiastic.
CNN's Anderson Cooper certainly got that impression from an English teacher he met in Baquba.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Is today an exciting day for you?
BUTHANA MEDHI, IRAQI POLL WORKER: It is very -- an exciting day, because it represents the first of the beginning of the -- our new life in Iraq.
COOPER: You feel -- you feel Iraq is starting a new life?
MEDHI: Yes. Yes, we are so excited, because we -- we will start a new stage in our life. We will start the democratic life here in Iraq.
COOPER: Do you think...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Do you think things will really change or will it take time?
MEDHI: I think it takes time, because we are not -- our people is not qualified perfectly to accept the new ideas.
We are -- some of the Iraqis are ignorant to the -- so -- to the political process. So, it needs some time to understand the -- and the process very well.
COOPER: There is so much -- there has been so much violence. There has been so much bloodshed. Do you think the violence will -- will continue for -- for a long time?
MEDHI: No. I -- I am sure that it will end -- it will end in the future, and we will start a very developed life. I -- I think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: You can catch more of "ANDERSON COOPER 360" 10:00 and 11:00, Eastern time, all this week.
Still to come on LIVE FROM, is this the campus of a major American university or a disaster zone? Well, it's both, of course -- Tulane University in New Orleans bouncing back and handing out the first post-Katrina diplomas -- academic achievement, indeed. We have got two of the graduates with us.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Hurricane Katrina spared nothing when it pounded, flooded and ruined New Orleans. The Civil War-era campus of Tulane University fared about as well as everything else, meaning not well. But from the muddy rubble, Tulane emerges, and remarkably will graduate seniors this term. Wynette Boykin (ph) and Sharon Kirkpatrick (ph) are two of them.
Ladies, welcome and congratulations.
SHARON KIRKPATRICK, TULANE UNIV. SENIOR: Thank you.
WYNETTE BOYKIN, TULANE UNIV. SENIOR: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: I can tell you're excited. No doubt. I know Sharon, you finished your last paper on Monday. Right, Sharon?
KIRKPATRICK: Monday night at midnight.
BOYKIN: Monday night at 2:35 a.m.
PHILLIPS: My gosh. Wasn't that a great feeling when you just crossed that last t and finished it off?
KIRKPATRICK: It really was. It was amazing. I had a professor on the line with me at midnight going through my grade with me. It was incredible.
PHILLIPS: The both of you are getting your master's degree in social work, correct?
KIRKPATRICK: Right.
PHILLIPS: Talk about firsthand experience, oh my gosh, I mean, what a hands-on education for both of you.
Wynette, take me back to the storm and tell me what happened to you -- but how you used your social work with those that were affected by the storm.
BOYKIN: Well, I ended up staying for the storm because -- I actually tried to leave for the storm but the roads were actually blocked off. They told me to turn around and go back to my apartment. So I ended up staying at my apartment with my friend and his mother and his cousin, and it was just -- it was really crazy. I had to hold it together. I had to be the strong point within this group of people, and help counsel them.
PHILLIPS: I was reading that you even had to loot to stay alive. You had to -- you were worried about being electrocuted because of the wires and not being able to see anything, right? It was pretty hairy for you?
BOYKIN: Yes. I mean, well, you know, my friend's mother called us during the storm and her roof caved in. We had to go through the water during the storm when it was there to go get them. It was just so horrible. The power lines were down. I was really frightened at the time.
PHILLIPS: Sharon, you grew up in that area. You had probably never seen anything like this. Tell me what was your situation like?
KIRKPATRICK: Well, first of all let me go back to Wynette. She didn't mention that she didn't get out because she was taking homeless people to the Superdome for shelter.
BOYKIN: Yeah.
KIRKPATRICK: Their van had broken down and she was using her car to get people from the shelter she worked at.
PHILLIPS: So Wynette, you were getting them over there, in addition counseling them, right?
BOYKIN: Yes. The girls -- I worked at Liberty House, it's a homeless shelter with adolescent women, and they have up to three children and I had to take my car, and take them to the Superdome. They were so frightened. I told them it was going to be okay. They were just scared. When I dropped them off I just felt like it was going to be something bad that was going to happen at the Superdome. It was a lot of people there, just a lot of people, angry people at the Superdome at the time.
PHILLIPS: Sharon, you're bragging about your friend, there, but you did the same thing. You had to jump in and do crisis counseling. Tell me your story.
KIRKPATRICK: Well, this was the very first storm I had ever evacuated for. I wound up spending a week in Baton Rouge and five weeks in Dallas. And when I got back I started my clinical placement at Catholic Charities. And after a couple of weeks they asked me if I would work as a program manager for a new outreach program that they're starting. We're putting crisis counselors out into the streets and into the disaster recovery centers, basically trying to helping people get through this.
The mental health impacts are going to be enormous from this storm. We're really seeing a lot of people struggling. BOYKIN: I agree. I completely agree with you.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about how it's completely -- you guys, you knew what you wanted to do when you were going for your master's degree in social work. Both of you knew you really wanted to help people that are dealing with tough times.
But this is just -- I mean, talk about a double whammy. This has probably completely changed your outlook -- not only changed you, but changed your outlook, and definitely going to change your career path. Sharon?
KIRKPATRICK: Yes. I mean, it's hard. It really is. One of the hardest things is when you're faced with people and you can't provide them what they need. I was siting across from one of the Catholic Charities workers and she was on the phone with a woman living in a truck with her husband and her 14-year-old asthmatic son. And she had the FEMA money but she couldn't find housing, and we weren't able to help her. When my co-worker got off the phone, she just broke down in tears.
It's difficult work --
BOYKIN: It's very difficult.
KIRKPATRICK: -- trying to help, you know. Part of what we do is send outreach workers into the field. The other part is trying to take care of them, emotionally.
PHILLIPS: And Wynette, has it changed your outlook? And how is it going to make you a better social worker?
BOYKIN: It's going to make me a better social worker by being able to relate to the situation. I'm currently -- well, I was doing my internship at the Housing Authority of New Orleans, and one of the things that we're doing right now is we're taking the Section 8 and public housing residents and we're trying to help them find homes. But during this counseling process, you know, I can really empathize with the residents because we kind of went through similar things as far as struggling.
So it really made me see that when you're in a desperate situation, you will do anything to survive.
PHILLIPS: The both of you have survived. You're getting your degree. Hallelujah. Congratulations. No doubt. You'll not be out of a job, that is for sure. Go ahead, Sharon -- you had a final thought?
KIRKPATRICK: I just wanted to say thank you for the faculty and staff at Tulane School of Social Work who stepped up and put this semester together for us. It was a monumental feat that they got it done.
PHILLIPS: You guys, the two of you hung in there as well. You could have said forget it and you didn't. And we congratulate both of you. We'll keep in touch, okay?
BOYKIN: Thank you.
KIRKPATRICK: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Sharon and Wynette, thanks, you guys.
Tulane officials weren't sure that the doors would open for next term, so thorough the damage was, but they will, believe it or not. Spring semester '06 will commence at what university officials call a smaller but stronger school.
There is a price, however. The staff will take a big hit -- about 700 faculty members and other workers won't be returning. Also slashed: the graduate school, several academic programs and half the sports teams. The almighty budget down $100 million. The university will also have to shoulder a lot of the hurricane cleanup, renovation, and rebuilding.
Still, administrators are more than hopeful for a sizable return rate, though. They expect almost all students displaced by the hurricane to be back on campus for spring.
So, Mona Lisa -- happy, sad, somewhere in between? The science behind the smile, right after this.
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PHILLIPS: "Mona Lisa," the Da Vinci matter piece perhaps is the most famous painting of all time. Her smile has intrigued art lovers for five centuries. Now a team of Dutch researchers believe they figured out why. CNN's Zain Verjee has the story.
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ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That face, those eyes, and that smile. Mona Lisa is a masterpiece and also a mystery. What makes a legendary beam so compelling? Researchers at the University of Amsterdam believe they know. They applied emotion recognition computer software to Leonardo da Vinci's work. It measures a person's mood by examining key features, such as the curve of the lips and the crinkles around the eyes.
Here's what they found, according to the British weekly, "New Scientist." Mona Lisa was 83 percent happy, 9 percent disgusted, 6 percent fearful, and 2 percent angry.
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PHILLIPS: Six percent fearful? What do you think she was in scared of? All of those people who came to visit?
VERJEE: Yeah, exactly. Why are they all looking at me? Have you ever seen the Mona Lisa?
PHILLIPS: You know, I haven't. I wish if I would have known that we were doing this I would have brought my pictures in. They all have a reflection because she's behind glass. So, I took all these pictures, but you can't really make it out.
VERJEE: You can't see it. And when you go and see it hanging in the Louvre which I have as well it's actually surprisingly small. I was taken aback by that. And the other thing, too, is that there's such a crowd of people there. And all of these flashes going off. So, it's also difficult to see.
But the glass that you mentioned Kyra, is interesting. It's actually behind the glass in order to protect it. There's something like -- it has its own in-built air-conditioning system in that. So it's some like 68 degrees Fahrenheit, and 55 degrees humidity, just to make sure it preserves.
PHILLIPS: So it's not just -- oh, I always thought it was so it wasn't -- it couldn't get stolen.
VERJEE: Right.
PHILLIPS: Is it both?
VERJEE: That's one thing. Another is just to preserve it. But what has happened in the past before, people have thrown stones at it, and it's been destroyed by acid and things like that.
PHILLIPS: How could they throw stones at it? Some people find her annoying I guess.
VERJEE: Just vandals.
PHILLIPS: So, what's the big deal about the smile, you think?
VERJEE: The mystery, Kyra, the mystery behind a woman's smile. You know, everybody, art historians and you know, just lay people looking at her, why is this woman smiling? A lot of art historians will say look, the real key here is in a technique that Da Vinci used, called the formato.
Now looking at picture right now, and essentially that's sort of the interaction between light and dark. And there you see the different shades around her mouth, the different shades around her eyes. And you know, that basically lends itself to an image that you don't really know what kind of mood this woman is. And you don't really know what kind of -- what time of day it is.
PHILLIPS: Do we know who she is?
VERJEE: No. We don't know. That's also a mystery. But most art historians will say this is Lisa, who was a wife of a very prominent, very wealthy Florentine businessman in 16th century whose name was Franchesco del Giocondo (ph). And sometimes the Mona Lisa is called "La Gioconda" because that's believed where she's from. Interesting also, she has no eyebrows.
PHILLIPS: I never really noticed that. You what I did notice, though, you and the Mona Lisa have a lot in common.
VERJEE: What? No eyebrows?
PHILLIPS: Not the no eyebrows, the smiles. Look at that. Zain Verjee and the Mona Lisa. Actually I think your smile is a lot more beautiful. Although both of you are very mysterious. That is true.
VERJEE: Mysterious? How?
PHILLIPS: Yes. There's some mystery behind that smile of yours.
VERJEE: Well, what was interesting, is there? I don't think so.
But behind Mona Lisa's smile, another thing was that back in the 16th century, if you just smile a little, women you know expected to curl slightly around the corner of their mouth. And that was sort of viewed as quite beautiful and quite elegant. So, you can see that sort of slight -- rather than showing 38, 36 white teeth, you know, pearly whites. The Mona Lisa has the mystery there.
PHILLIPS: And the elegant Zain Verjee.
VERJEE: OH, thank you so much.
PHILLIPS: All right. I know you're sticking around. "THE SITUATION ROOM." OK, minutes away.
LIVE FROM is not over. We've got a lot more ahead including video of the day. We'll explain this amazing scene. And of course bring you Wolf Blitzer. That's amazing in itself. We'll be right back.
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PHILLIPS: And this just coming to us here at CNN. An Iraqi official coming forward, actually saying that terror suspect Abu al Zarqawi had been in custody in 2004, but was released by mistake. Hussein Kamal, Iraq's deputy minister of interior, confirmed to CNN today that Iraqi security forces did have Abu Musab al Zarqawi, Iraq's wanted terror suspect, as we said, in custody last year. But they said they released him because they didn't know his identity.
Kamal wouldn't provide any other details. A U.S. official did come forward say he could not confirm that report, but added it is plausible and would not dismiss this report.
There have been several reports of missed opportunities in capturing the excused terror mastermind. You may remember back in April, we covered this story. U.S. troops had raided a hospital in Ramadi based on credible intelligence that terrorists might be there. And then two U.S. military officials told CNN that after searching the hospital, they found no suspects. There's been a lot of rumors and information that's come forward that said that al Zarqawi had been at the Ramadi Hospital, possibly injured and that groups affiliated with him had issued statements that he was at that medical center. But, of course, nothing turned out there.
Al Zarqawi has never been arrested. And, of course, he's not in custody to this point. But now, Iraq's deputy minister of interior coming forward and saying that Iraqi security forces did have Abu Musab al Zarqawi in custody, didn't know his identity. This happened last year. They let him go by mistake.
Let's check in now with Wolf Blitzer. He's standing by in Washington to tell us what's coming up at top of top of the hour in "THE SITUATION ROOM." You might be talking about Zarqawi, I would assume, Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Kyra, one footnote to what you just reported. I spoke a little while ago with the number two general in the Iraqi military, Lieutenant General Nasir Abadi and he said he didn't think that story was accurate. He said, yes, Abu Musab al Zarqawi was in the hospital last year. They got word of it, they rushed to the hospital, but by the time they got there, he says, Zarqawi was gone. So he's not sure that's precisely the truth.
So we're getting all of these conflicting versions right now. We're going to continue to watch this story, Kyra, and get the latest information for our viewers during the course of "THE SITUATION ROOM." That's coming up at the top of hour.
We're also watching a compromise or a deal involving torture. That historic election in Iraq at a multibillion dollar plan to try to shore up the levees in New Orleans. A very busy day indeed here in Washington, around the country, around the world.
Also, we'll speak with the attorney general of the United States, Alberto Gonzales. He's going to be here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Hillary Clinton and the race for the White House. We have a brand new poll coming out right at the top of the hour. We'll find out where she stands. Who are the front-runners for the Republican nomination?
And get this. In the 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour of "THE SITUATION ROOM," Rush Limbaugh's drug case. His politics to blame for his legal troubles? His lawyer is joining for his side of the story. All of that coming up, right at the top of the hour -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Looking forward to it, Wolf. Thanks so much. We'll take a quick break. More LIVE FROM, right after this.
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PHILLIPS: Dog lovers have a new hero in Salem, Massachusetts. It's firefighter Richard LeBlanc, who didn't balk when he needed to smooch a pooch. Little Pixie was home alone when fire broke out and by the time firefighters pulled her out, she'd stopped breathing. Well, LeBlanc immediately gave Pixie mouth-to-snout resuscitation in an effort to revive her, and guess what? It worked.
Another firefighter gave Pixie oxygen and then it off to the vet, who says she's doing fine. Salem Fire Captain Alan Dionne says that firefighters always try to save lives and that means every life. Not a dry eye in the control room. Vicki, there she is. The dog lover. She's got 15 of them. Yes, she did the same thing, right?
Closing bell time on Wall Street. CNN's Ali Velshi is staying on top with the biz world's up and downs..
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fifteen dogs?
PHILLIPS: Now, I'm being a little sarcastic. Actually, you know what Vicki did? Vicki, she's got three, and that includes one or two, Vicki, from New Orleans? Two from New Orleans. She went out there, when everything hit and worked to save hundred and hundreds of dogs. That's right.
VELSHI: Well, I'm a dog lover, so that's all right.
PHILLIPS: Where there you go. That's why Vicki always puts you in the show.
VELSHI: I got to tell you, if I were a dog in Manhattan, I'd be very worried about this transit strike because everybody's going to be on the sidewalks.
PHILLIPS: OK, what's up with the mayor saying, hey, walk, take your bike out?
VELSHI: Yes, he's big on the bike thing. Remember a few years ago, when we were about to have a strike, that was the thing. He showed everybody he bought a new bike and showed everybody about this. Bloomberg's big on the whole subway thing.
But, you know, we're getting close to the deadline. It's a few hours away. And here in New York, it's all hands on-deck, Kyra, with the possibility that this might be the last ride home for a lot of people if the subway workers decide to go on strike tonight.
Over on Wall Street, there's no -- I mean, this could cost the city a lot of money, Bloomberg estimates about $400 million a day. The issue on Wall Street is not that they're worried about major economic effect, but, you know, after 9/11 the Wall Street traders and the financial companies really developed some contingency plans to keep them able to work. Some worked from home, some people will telecommute. They've hired big coaches to take people to work in case there's a transit strike.
PHILLIPS: Well, you know what I heard?
VELSHI: What?
PHILLIPS: I heard Lou Dobbs is going to pick you up, Allen Chernoff, Susan Lisovicz, Kathleen Hays. He's going to...
VELSHI: I'm going to hold on to the back. I'm going to have to hold on to the bumper with tape board or something.
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