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Interview with Ken Salazar; Spain Nets 15 Terror Suspects; First Same-Sex Unions in Britain

Aired December 19, 2005 - 14:24   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So how far can the government go in the war on terror? Critics say President Bush broke the law when he authorized the government to intercept the international communications of U.S. citizens. But the administration points to Mr. Bush's powers as commander in chief and to a resolution that Congress passed after the 9/11 attacks.
Senator Ken Salazar is a Colorado Democrat and a former Colorado attorney general. He joins us from the Russell Rotunda at the U.S. Capitol.

Senator, good to see you.

SEN. KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO: Hello, Kyra. Good to see you.

PHILLIPS: Well, what do you think, did the president break the law?

SALAZAR: You know, I think it's arguable that he did break the law, and I think it's important for the U.S. Senate to hold hearings to make that determination. There is nothing specific in any of the laws that he has cited or even in the Constitution that would give the commander in chief the power to go ahead and spy on American citizens. And that's what has happened here. And so I think it's very important that we scrutinize what it is that he did and make a determination as to whether or not the law has, in fact, been broken.

PHILLIPS: Well, the president has come forward and said, look, I told Congress about everything that I've done. This is what he said in his speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: There is the check of people being sworn to uphold the law, for starters. There is oversight.

We're talking to Congress all the time. And on this program to suggest there's unchecked power is not listening to what I'm telling you. I'm telling you we have briefed the United States Congress on this program a dozen times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Do you agree with that? Has he done that? And does that justify what he did? SALAZAR: You know, I disagree that he's briefed the United States Congress. I, for one, have not been briefed on the fact that there have been this -- this spying mission has been conducted against American citizens. And I think it's a very serious issue, and I think it's something that definitely needs to be taken a look at.

When the court has taken a look at this in the past, including the U.S. Supreme Court back in the 1970s, they found that it was unlawful to engage in electronic surveillance on American individuals unless you had a court order. Here it was clear that the president could have gotten a court order from the secret FISA court, he could have used other authorities to make sure that there was the right kind of process before spying was engaged in. And so I think there is a very important question that faces the American people today as to whether or not the president has broken the law.

And I think that's why Senator Specter's decision to hold hearings on this issue is something that's very important. I think the American people deserve to know the truth.

PHILLIPS: We'll get back to those hearings in just a minute. But you mentioned the FISA court. The president said, look, I didn't have time. I needed to get the information for the sake of national security, I had to go forward. Do you think he should be able to do that?

SALAZAR: You know, the FISA court is controlled by the Department of Justice, and there -- it's a secret court, and they never had any trouble at all going to that court and getting warrants to conduct numerous searches. That has been going on ever since 9/11, ever since the FISA court was created. So there was no reason why a FISA court order could not have been entered in these cases.

PHILLIPS: Well, the president has also come forward and said, look, you have got to protect America's secrets. And when stories like the one that came out in "The New York Times" talking about the eavesdropping comes out, it's a threat to national security. Here's what he said, he gave an example.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: In the late 1990s, our government was following Osama bin Laden because he was using a certain type of telephone. And then the fact that we were following Osama bin Laden because he was using a certain type of telephone made it into the press as a result of a leak.

And guess what happened? Saddam -- Osama bin Laden changed his behavior. He began to change how he communicated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: What do you think about that? Too much information, a threat to security? Just thinking about having the opportunity to even get Osama bin Laden, wow. SALAZAR: You know, I think that there is already a court process with the secret FISA court in place where a warrant could, in fact, be issued. Many of those investigations, in fact, 99.99 percent of all the investigations conducted by the federal government probably are never heard of by the public until there is a reason to go forward and make them public.

Law enforcement and our federal agencies are good at keeping secrets. So I don't think that the president's efforts here would have compromised in any way national -- national security.

I think the most important thing that we need to keep in mind here is, that as we engage in this war on terror, which is going to be a long war, that we ought not to trample upon the civil liberties of Americans, because we are not going to be a free America if we become a police state. And that's what we really put into the balance when we start having secret courts and secret spies and all of the things that have been going on.

You know, America deserves better, and America deserves to have the kind of free democracy that we have fought for, for more than two centuries on this land.

PHILLIPS: But do you agree that it's a different time right now when it comes to the threat that we as Americans face? 9/11 is something that has never -- it never happened before. Anything -- nothing came close to an attack like that on U.S. soil.

So a lot of people are saying, look, you -- the rules have to change, the president has to act in a more secret way in order to prevent another 9/11. And a number of people, of course, coming forward, supporting what the president has done, saying we haven't had another 9/11, so whatever he's doing it's working, let's keep it that way.

SALAZAR: Kyra, I think that 9/11 did change our perception as to our own security here on the homeland, and that's why there is a very strong bipartisan coalition that wants to renew the Patriot Act. We want to renew it before it expires at the end of the year.

The main problem, frankly, with us not capturing the al Qaeda terrorists before 9/11 was that there was this wall of communication between federal agencies.

The president himself a month before 9/11 was briefed on al Qaeda possibly attacking American citizens with an airplane.

So we had information; it's just that the information wasn't being shared. That's what the Patriot Act gets to and that's why Democrats and Republicans alike passed the reauthorization of the Patriot Act on a 100-0 vote.

So, yes, things have changed. But as we move forward to deal with the issues of terrorism, it's also important for us to remember that the cornerstone of our liberties is in our Constitution and we should not trample on the Constitution. PHILLIPS: Senator Ken Salazar.

Thanks for your time, sir.

SALAZAR: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, an anti-terrorist operation in Spain has netted 15 people suspected of recruiting jihadists to fight with insurgents in Iraq. According to Spanish police, one of those arrests was an Iraqi man linked to the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi. More than 100 police took part in raids in various parts of the country.

Joining us for more on the story, CNN's Madrid bureau chief Al Goodman.

Al, let's talk about the suspects arrested. What will they be charged with?

AL GOODMAN, CNN MADRID BUREAU CHIEF: Well, they'll charge them with some sort of links to al Qaeda. Apparently, now the Spanish authorities, Kyra, can hold them for 72 hours, that's three days. They can extend that for a couple more days.

So we're not expecting the arraignments for a couple days. During this time, the police will be going through apparently voluminous material that was taken in these various locations, mainly in southern Spain in Seville and Malaga Provinces, also in a province near Barcelona called Lerida Province. And also one arrest coming in Spain's Balearic Islands in the Mediterranean in Palma de Mallorca -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Tell us more about the recruits. What do we know about these recruits and where -- how they're communicating and how they're traveling?

GOODMAN: Well, I was at the news conference of Spanish Interior Minister Jose Antonio Alonso a short while ago this day here in Madrid and he sort of dodged questions. He said that they had to keep things very tight because of the investigation.

I asked him if any of these recruits who were going to be sent to fight against Western forces in Iraq were women. He didn't want to answer that question.

What he did say is that the police thought that there were two recruits ready to go to Iraq. Of course, this cell is charged with recruiting and indoctrinating them, getting them ready and financing them with forged documents as well to send them over to Iraq.

He also says notably that this type of activity that they think they uncovered in Spain is the same type of thing that's going on in other countries. They say this is an al Qaeda pattern right now. They've found it here in Spain -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: So are you saying that Spain has become somewhat of a staging ground for al Qaeda in Europe?

GOODMAN: Well, investigators would say that they have known that for some time.

Now, just in the past two years besides these 15 arrests these days, just in the past two years about 200 suspected Islamic terrorists have been arrested in Spain. Many remain in jail and are awaiting trial.

Just a couple of weeks ago, a group of Algerians were arrested. Seven were remanded to jail, were kept in jail after the arraignment -- some others were let go -- because of suspected logistical support for al Qaeda.

So authorities say that in addition, of course to the Madrid train bombings last year that killed 191 people, Spain has been a very fertile ground for sleeper cells and all sorts of al Qaeda activity -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Al Goodman live from Madrid, Spain.

Thanks, Al.

Making history in Great Britain today, three same-sex couples were legally united in civil partnerships and hundreds more expected. Among them, music man Sir Elton John. But their dash down the aisle was not without protest.

ITV's Penny Marshall has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENNY MARSHALL, ITV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was a journey to the register office and into the history books.

Shannon Sickles and Grainne Close never thought they'd be able to register their partnership in law. Now their union is legal. Their rights as a couple have been recognized.

GRAINNE CLOSE, MARRIED SAME-SEX PARTNER: This is a very privileged position we're in this morning, and for us this is making a choice to...

SHANNON SICKLES, MARRIED SAME-SEX PARTNER: Have our rights, our civil rights acknowledged and respected and protected as any human being.

MARSHALL: This moment confirms the social changes of the past decades, making homosexual civil marriages legal.

But while wedding guests mingled with those who'd come to celebrate history's progress, there were some who'd come to object.

DR. IAN BROWN, FREE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH: This is a particularly sad day for Northern Ireland. We were the last part of the United Kingdom to have the ban on the practice of homosexuality overturned. Now we find ourselves in the even more tragic position of being the first part of the United Kingdom to stage a sodomite wedding.

MARSHALL: Nearly 700 gay couples will follow in the footsteps of this pair this week.

Chris Flanagan and Henry Kane plan to marry in Belfast later today.

CHRIS FLANAGAN, PLANS GAY WEDDING: We are committing ourselves the way any other couple would. We've planned, we've planned to stay together for the rest of our lives. So we want to show it like a normal heterosexual couple would. You fall in love, you get married, and that's what we're doing.

MARSHALL: These Belfast brides have become the star players in a momentous day in gay rights history, but their fight's not yet over. It's not clear if this union recognized here will have legal status internationally.

Penny Marshall, ITV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Another one of those ceremonies being planned, Sir Elton John.

Let's talk more about that, Sibila Vargas.

You've got all the scoop. Are you going?

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Oh gosh, wouldn't I love to go.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Quite a celebration, I bet.

VARGAS: Quite a celebration.

And also, let me just tell you that BET is remembering the late comedian Richard Pryor.

I'll have that and more when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: ... to the newsroom, Tony Harris working a story now, the passing of a Mafia kingpin known to many as "The Chin."

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: That's it, Kyra.

The Associated Press is reporting right now that mob boss Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, better known to anyone who follows organized crime as Vinny The Chin, has died at the medical center for federal prisoners in Springfield, Missouri. He was 77 years old. He headed up the Genovese crime family, and outfoxed federal prosecutors for years, Kyra, by faking mental illness until he was finally convicted of racketeering in July of 1997. He was actually dubbed "The Odd Father" for his bizarre behavior, actually wandering around the streets of Greenwich Village in a kind of ratted out bathrobe and slippers.

Did we see that picture already?

He finally admitted the strange behavior was nothing more than an elaborate con job a few years ago, April 2003 to be exact, during a court hearing.

Now, at the height of his power, "The Chin"'s crime empire stretched from Little Italy to the docks of Miami.

Vinny "The Chin" Gigante dead at 77 -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Tony.

We'll keep checking in with you for all the latest news.

All right. We're going to check in on entertainment with Sibila Vargas, too, right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: And in entertainment news, music legend Elton John making history by wedding his long-time love in Britain. CNN entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas in New York with all the details on the nuptials -- Sibila?

VARGAS: That's right, Kyra. Elton John says it will be the happiest day of his life. He's talking about his upcoming civil partnership. John is set to hold a civil partnership ceremony with long-time partner David Furnish on Wednesday.

John and more than 600 same-sex couples plan on forming civil partnerships in England and Wales on the first day. It is the first day such ceremonies become possible. The singer says, quote, "It has been a long struggle for equal rights to gay people in Britain, but now in the 21st century, we have real civil rights."

And it's been a little more than a week since the passing of comedian Richard Pryor. Tonight, cable channel BET will pay tribute to Pryor. The BET special, called "The Life and Legacy of Pryor" will featuring fellow comics, family and friends sharing their personal experiences with the late comedic legend. It's "Richard Pryor: The Funniest Man Dead or Alive" and airs at 7:30 Eastern tonight. Comedians Dave Chapelle, Chris Tucker, Wanda Sykes, and "Saturday Night Live" producer Lorne Michaels will all remember Pryor.

And "King Kong" dominated the weekend box office, raking in $50.1 million. And that may be no surprise to the many people who saw it, but some Hollywood analysts expected "King Kong" to have a debut at the weekend with $60 million. But, not to worry, the film did take it in $80 million overseas in its first five days. So, Kyra not so bad for the big, big ape.

PHILLIPS: Yes, not bad at all. I can't wait to see it. I tried to see it this weekend, but I had to go see the...

VARGAS: I haven't see it. I haven't seen it.

PHILLIPS: Really?

VARGAS: And even the second version that most people didn't like, I loved it. I love him, King Kong. He rules.

PHILLIPS: I know. I loved the original. It's one of my favorites. All right. We'll talk to each other, I guess, after we see it. Thanks, though, Sibila.

Well, coming up on LIVE FROM, belly laughs await. Some kids are just fine with a visit to Santa, but to others, he's kind of scary. Some cases of Claus-trophobia, coming your way. You won't want to miss these pictures. They are hilarious.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

PHILLIPS; White beard, twinkly eyes. Who doesn't love jolly old St. Nick? Well, it turns out, plenty of small fry erupt in large terror at the very sight. Of course, it probably doesn't help when all the grown-ups laugh at their plight. But we couldn't stop laughing ourselves, either. Neither could the newspapers across the country. Like Denise Joyce with "The Chicago Tribune," which has had a huge response to its Scared of Santa photo contest.

Good to see you, Denise.

DENISE JOYCE, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Thank you. Good to see you.

PHILLIPS: So how did the idea come about?

JOYCE: Well, I'm a member of a features editors journalism group called the American Association of Sunday and Features Editors. And every year we have a conference at which we pool ideas and we say, steal this idea, this would worked great for us. So this was actually an idea that Jan Tuckwood (ph) of "The Palm Beach Post" did back in 1999 and I sort of filed it away as something I thought that the "Tribune" readers would really enjoy.

PHILLIPS: And you got pictures, I mean, from all years. Even back to the '50s. So let's just get right to them. Do you actually have the list or I'll kind of guide you through these?

JOYCE: I have some here. So if you put them up there, I'll kind of tell you what it's about. This was actually our third place winner. This is from 1965. This was Pamela Mendricks (ph), sent in by her mother Mary Jane Mendricks (ph) of Hoffman (ph) Estates.

And one the cue staffers did a brilliant job of writing these captions and what she said about this was that "Miss Pamela had the mind to hang on to that candy cane while emitting a category five scream." So, like I say, that was our third place winner. PHILLIPS: And I understand that mom keeps the sibling rivalry aflame by pointing out that Pamela's older sister had backed out at the last minute.

JOYCE: At the last minute, right. We found there was a recurring theme through some of these with the moms.

Oh, this is like -- this was our second place winner. This was sent in by Judy Hennessey (ph). This is circa 1969 and what you have, you have 5-year-old Todd on the left, you have Lisa, seven, on the right and this poor little 2-year-old Amy screaming in a chair. And what you can't tell but what mom shared with us is that Todd and Lisa are holding on to Amy's coat so she can't escape. The mom was probably trying to get the picture.

PHILLIPS: The kids crying at the plastic Santa. This is just classic.

JOYCE: Well, actually. Yes. This was our first-place winner. We thought, it didn't even take a real Santa. This is little 2-year- old Amy, who's now -- she'd probably be totally embarrassed. She's 24 years old now, but in 1981, she was two years old. This is Amy Miller (ph), sent in by her mom, Valerie Miller (ph) of Lansing, Illinois. It's suburban. This is just -- it was a just a stitch. I said -- we saw that and I thought, it's just a plastic facsimile was enough to send little Amy off.

PHILLIPS: And I was reading that mom like torments Amy with this picture every single year?

JOYCE: Every single year she brings it back out and I think she actually had subsequent ones that she pulls out, too. When we contacted some of these people to tell them that we were going to be showing these again, they say that they just got such a kick out of this.

Now this one set us off, too. This was -- not only do you have the twins crying, but you actually set Santa off. It looks like Santa is getting ready to let go. This is Madison (ph) and Nicholas (ph), sent in by their grandmother from Skokie, Illinois.

But we sort of made an observation. We found that twin boys were more likely to cry than twin girls. We found that one-year-old and two-year-olds are more likely to cry spectacularly. And we also decided that whatever Santa is paid to do this, it's not enough.

PHILLIPS: Poor guy. I'd love to know why he was crying. Something has to be going on. All right, now this Santa? A little scary to me, Denise.

JOYCE: Well, we actually ended up with a sub-category, because we had so many great pictures where the kids aren't really screaming, but they really should be. I mean one look at this Santa and you're thinking, this is a scary guy. We're thinking maybe "America's Most Wanted" might be interested in this guy.

PHILLIPS: He might be sipping on the whiskey, too, you know. He's got the little flask there in his back pocket.

JOYCE: Right. Yes, or maybe -- yes, yes. He's been overindulging in something.

PHILLIPS: Now did you get any pictures or any submissions where it was maybe a little too much and you thought, "Ooh, we can't print that?" Any funny stories?

JOYCE: Well, we didn't really want to be cruel. The funniest story, there was a black-and-white picture, I think from like the '40s that sent in and we did run it. It didn't slow us down, but at the far right there is this -- at first we thought it was a doll because the kid absolutely looked so terrified. But the Santa had this sort of an Al Jolson-looking mask, but it was actually a kid.

PHILLIPS: We actually have the picture, there it is. And quite honestly, it kind of freaked us out too.

JOYCE: Well, exactly. But that kid on the far right -- I guess the kid, Roman Sakorski (ph), he's the little baby sitting on the lap -- lives in Waukesha, Wisconsin. But he said, "But mom," -- they asked him, "Why would you send us over there? Why did he wear that horrible mask?"

And they go, well, it's to protect his face from the biting snow. But I guess he talked like every Christmas, they would just dread going over to their grandmother's house to see Santa.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'll tell you what, those pictures had us roaring in the newsroom today. Hysterical. It's such a great idea, Denise.

JOYCE: Well, I'm glad that you guys are getting a kick out of it. And if more people want to see that, through the efforts of Daniel Gordon -- Danielle Gordon of our Internet group.

Those are still up on our Web site. So if people want to go look at more, because people are still sending in these pictures. If they go to www.chicagotribune.com/scaredofsanta, there's still the photo gallery up with even more additions. And people can still send some stuff and go through those and post some of the really good ones.

PHILLIPS: Denise Joyce, "Chicago Tribune," thank you so much.

JOYCE: Thank you so much.

PHILLIPS: And you know what, we sort of copied your idea. We were inspired so we've asked viewers to send in pictures. So we've got a few too, and we're going to try and do it the rest of the week because we've been getting such a great response. Do you want to see our pix?

JOYCE: I think that would be great.

PHILLIPS: OK, here we go, Denise. Good to see you. And we'll keep in touch. We'll go online. Right here, we've got a lot of e-mails sharing your favorite photos for the season. Some screamers, not screamers. Now, remember General Russell Honore? The man who led the cleanup in the days after Hurricane Katrina? This is his precious, perfectly angelic grandson. This is little James Russell (ph). Is he just a cutie pie? Of course he wouldn't scream and yell. He's a tough kid. His dad's a general, for goodness sakes.

All right, here we go, we've got some screamers. Tim from New York said that this photo of his little girl Alex inspired him to create a Hanukkah card. And here's the card. He said he gets lots of laughs from all their friends.

And here's some more kids with a little case of Claus-trophobia. This is screaming Sabrina (ph), 18-months, with her mom at Saks in New York. And Angela in Chattanooga sent us this photo of Jacob (ph) just waiting away on Santa.

And little Britney (ph) sent this phone of her nephew Ian (ph) and her niece Ireland (ph). Both a little freaked out. And poor Santa, not quite sure what to do there. I think they're poking him.

Well, keep them coming. E-mail us your photos. We want to show them to everybody, LIVEFROM@CNN.com.

And they're doing something in New Orleans that they haven't been able to do in more than three months. They're hopping aboard the street cars. Coming up, we're going to take you on a ride through history. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you can hop on a streetcar in New Orleans again. The city's historic trolleys resumed limited service yesterday, picking up passengers and raising spirits.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): When streetcars rolled through New Orleans for the first time since Hurricane Katrina, it marked the renewal of a long, cherished tradition. The first New Orleans streetcars began running in 1835. Running first on steam, but later pulled by horses because they were quieter.

In the 1890s, wires were strung above city streets. Trolley poles were raised and the horses were replaced by electricity. At first, there was nothing particularly special about the New Orleans streetcars. Most big cities had extensive systems.

But Tennessee Williams may have been first to establish that special link between New Orleans and its streetcars. His 1947 play, "A Streetcar Named Desire" was set along the tracks in the French Quarter. There really was a Desire Streetcar Line, but buses took over the route just a year after the play opened.

Buses, in fact, were taking over for streetcars nearly everywhere, not just in New Orleans. By the mid 1960s, the only remaining New Orleans route, along St. Charles Avenue, was a quaint reminder of the past, using cars that dated back to the 1920s.

Even the St. Charles Line was threatened, but in 1973, it was placed on the National Register of Historic Places. The St. Charles streetcars were becoming a tourist draw. And for the first time in decades, New Orleans began expanding the system.

A riverfront line started in 1988 and just last year, streetcars began running down the city's main drag, Canal Street, for the first time in 40 years. Both of these new lines used newly built streetcars designed to resemble the antique cars on the St. Charles line.

But when Katrina struck, water flooded the building that housed the new cars. The old St. Charles Line cars stored in a different building weren't damaged, but the overhead power lines along the St. Charles Line suffered heavily.

And now in order to get service up and running as quickly as possible, transit officials will run the St. Charles cars on the river front and Canal Street lines, offering free rides until March. There's no timetable yet for repairing the damaged street cars, or for restoring service to the St. Charles Line.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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