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Oklahoma Fires Ravage More Than 30,000 Acres; Iraq's Baby Noor to Arrive in Atlanta for Surgery

Aired December 29, 2005 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's a classic dilemma for American parents. Should you put your baby in her crib and let her scream her head off until she falls asleep? Or should you let her sleep with you? Sleep with mom and dad so everyone can catch some Z's. Well, now influential child sleep expert Richard Ferber has thrown a curve ball over the parental plate.
The former guru of let them fuss until they drop, recently said he was relaxing his hard-line rules against co-sleeping. Vindication for some, confusion for others. So, I'm going to talk it over with child psychologist Dr. Sylvia Rimm, who's joining me now from Miami, Florida. Happy holidays, Dr. Rimm.

DR. SYLVIA RIMM, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: Happy holidays to you, Carol.

LIN: All right, you know, this is a huge frustration for parents, because if you have a baby and you're letting the baby cry it out until she falls asleep, it is so painful for the parents. And a lot of times, the easiest solution is just bring the baby into bed, or bring the toddler into bed. What's wrong with that? Why is that harmful?

RIMM: Well, we don't have research indicating that co-sleeping causes children problems. But we don't have research indicating that co-sleeping helps children either.

LIN: But doesn't it help everybody? Everybody gets to go to sleep. The baby's happy, the parents get to go to sleep, no one is screaming.

RIMM: Well, actually, Carol, it's parenting with foresight that's important, considering what's going to happen in the future. And I work with the other end of that problem. It's parents who write to me, because I do a syndicated column, or parents who come into my clinic with toddlers, preschoolers, even school-aged children who still insist that they must sleep with their parents.

LIN: And what's the harm in that? I mean, is it harmful for the parents or is it harmful for the child?

RIMM: It's harmful mostly for the parents. And if it's harmful for the parents, then it is also harmful for the child.

LIN: How is it harmful to the parents?

RIMM: Well, it can be harmful to their intimacy and intimacy is rather important for parents, in terms of being a role model.

LIN: All right, but what if they found time on vacation or when they got the baby-sitter and that wasn't so much of an issue?

RIMM: Well, it's also harmful often to parents in terms of sleep. And I'm basically telling you what parents are telling me. They no longer say, "Oh, it's great having my child in my bed." They're now complaining, "I can't sleep, they wake me up in the middle of the night. I don't know what to do. They kick me." Or you know, husbands complain a lot about the intimacy.

LIN: But where's the line, do you think? I mean, is it OK, maybe, if the baby comes or the toddler, but maybe not the four-year- old?

RIMM: I think it's perfectly fine for babies, even infants to sleep on their own in their own crib and they can do it.

LIN: But you know, the problem is, when they're mobile, you know, and they're out of the crib and they're in their own bed and they come running into the room. What are you supposed to do?

RIMM: Well, you simply tell them they have to sleep in their own bed.

LIN: Have you tried this? Because, you know, this is like every 20 minutes, all night long. And if you're working, what are you going to do?

RIMM: Well, it's very hard. You have to, really kind of, set a very clear limit. What I suggest to parents usually is, putting a gate up on their own room and the child understands that they can't go beyond that gate.

LIN: But then you have the screaming child at the gate outside your room?

RIMM: They do scream. That first night, they scream. And they tend to fall asleep on the floor. And the second night they're not even likely to get out of their bed to come to that gate.

LIN: All right, but one of the arguments for having a child sleep in their own bed is that it's supposed to teach them autonomy, you know, the self-soothing. Is that really important? Or I mean how important is that?

Because I wonder -- like, with my daughter, I'm afraid that if I let her sleep with me, then I'm teaching her to feel comfortable in bed, you've got to sleep with someone else. And obviously that would be a problem in the future.

RIMM: Yes, it would be a problem. And I don't have any research to document that, but I kind of like the idea that your daughter can sleep on her own. I think she can learn to sleep independently, but I don't have any research that is going to tell you that it's going to cause great harm in the future. LIN: All right, is it fair to say then every kid's different, right?

RIMM: Every kid is different, but again, that parenting with foresight, considering that you're going to have to undo this problem somewhere along the lines should give you some thinking. And you should consider the fact that it will probably be a lot easier for you and for the child if she learns how to sleep independently. Or he.

LIN: Or he. OK, thanks very much, Dr. Rimm. Good to have you.

RIMM: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: In the meantime, we are going to stay up on the developing situation out at the Oklahoma fires. You've got live pictures right now. The smoke is an enormous amount of smoke, 30,000 acres have burned so far.

I just talked with the emergency management folks out there. They're getting Black hawk helicopters up, with some water-dumping buckets. They're going to try to get control of this situation, but they need rain and it's not in the forecast.

Also next on LIVE FROM, the latest on the Iraqi baby who will come to America for life-saving surgery. The news keeps coming, and we're going to keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: OK. New videotape just into the CNN Center of the fires, the grass fires out in the state of Oklahoma. I just talked with the emergency management folks out there and they're telling me that in four counties, they're sending out Blackhawk and Chinook helicopters with water-dropping buckets so that they can try to get a handle on these grass fires that have been burning for the last two days.

Thirty thousand acres alone in the state of Oklahoma have been burned so far. The weather is not on their side. So far, dozens of homes have been destroyed and firefighters are desperately trying to work to get a handle on this situation.

Now, another update on a story we've been following. We are told that Baby Noor has her Iraqi passport, her U.S. visa and a plane ticket. The little girl who suffers from severe spina bifida -- that's an undeveloped spinal cord -- will reportedly be arriving in Atlanta this Saturday for surgery that could save her life.

A short while ago, I spoke with the CNN photographer Joe Duran in Baghdad, who has exclusive access -- television access right now to the baby. He's been providing us with these pictures of Baby Noor, the little baby who's captured the hearts of so many people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE DURAN, CNN PHOTOGRAPHER: Well, Carol, yes, everybody has been working hard to get this baby the medical care that she desperately needs. Baby Noor is here now at Camp victory, resting and waiting for that hopeful flight tomorrow. She's doing well and under the care of military doctors here at the base. Her condition is good, and she has been sleeping a good part of the day.

As you know, Baby Noor was found by a platoon medic December 8th when they were doing what is called a knock-and-search operation of the family's home. The soldiers answered the house. The grandmother told that platoon that their baby was sick and medics, Navy doctor attached to that platoon, looked at the baby and notified his commanders.

From that point on, as you mentioned, there has been a relentless effort to diagnosis and give this baby the medical care she desperately needs -- Carol.

LIN: So, Joe, we want to know what's happening literally right now, because we're trying to figure out when the baby is going to make it here into the United States to get the surgery she needs.

DURAN: Well, as I mentioned, she will hopefully be on a flight tomorrow. There is no confirmation. And actually for security reasons, we cannot go into details of what is happen at this very moment. But they are hoping that the visas will be given soon, and that she will be on a flight tomorrow. They are not certain until they actually have the passports with the visas, and that has not happened yet. They're hoping that will happen sometime tonight.

LIN: OK. So some family, though, gets to go with her, and I know it's been tricky, because, you know, the National Guard unit found them -- or the U.S. troops found them during a raid, where they were looking for suspected terrorists. So do you know which family members will be able to travel with her here to the United States?

DURAN: Well, Carol, there was a raid. That raid happened days before they actually found her. They raided the house. They do these raids in the neighborhood, Abu Ghraib neighborhood, and there -- in fact, today there was a couple of IED explosions and an RPG -- an RPG attack on a post here, but when they found the baby, they were actually doing what they call knock-and-search missions.

The grandmother, like I said, had spoke with the medic, and said, you know, my baby's sick, can you please look at the baby? And from that point on, they tried to get the medical help. They've been working relentlessly to get that medical help.

The grandmother and the father will be traveling with the baby, and I understand they will be issued visas, travel with the baby. There will also be a military escort to Kuwait where there will be on another flight, a commercial flight to Atlanta.

LIN: Hey, Joe, you're a veteran war photographer. All right, I mean, you have done your time out in the field. What strikes you about this story? I mean this is usually not the side of the military that you're covering.

DURAN: Well, no, I mean, we cover all sorts of military stories, conflicts, but this has taken the attention of everyone in the company, and everybody has done whatever they can to help this baby, and have been going out there in the middle of the night. We have been out there, you know, several times, to check on the baby. And it's very risky for the soldiers each time they go out there.

When we went last night to pick up Baby Noor, it was late at night and the family, in fact, asked us to leave the house and wait three blocks away because they did not, for their safety, want to leave their house and enter a military humvee, a military vehicle. So in the darkness we had to walk down the street and wait for them to come up to us. It's a very sensitive and a very dangerous spot for them. So yes, it's been dangerous, but everybody's willing to do whatever they need to do to get Baby Noor whatever help she can get.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: All right. And now a developing tore out of Oklahoma. You're looking at live pictures from our affiliate KWTV of the grass fires still virtually out of control. The winds are still picking up and now we have some videotape from our affiliate KOCO as helicopters were landing.

We understand that the Blackhawk and Chinook helicopters were sent out with water-dropping buckets and firefighters to try and contain these grass fires that so far have consumed 30,000 acres near Oklahoma City. Dramatic pictures as this story continues. The weather is not on their side. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right, new video just into CNN of firefighters on the ground, battling these grass fires near Oklahoma City. So far, 30,000 acres have burned so far. The temperatures did ease after the outbreak of fires on Tuesday, but unfortunately, it looks like there are going to be more hazardous conditions on Saturday.

So it's going to be a tough weekend in Oklahoma. They have a fire ban now and a ban on fireworks. Although there will be some fireworks going off at professional locations in Oklahoma, but firefighters are deathly afraid of the situation on the ground getting even worse.

Live pictures now, as the emergency management folks tell me that Chinook helicopters and Blackhawk helicopters are being sent out to do water-drops on these grass fires that so far have destroyed more than a dozen homes.

All right, in the meantime, we are still covering the controversy out of the National Security Agency. And the last thing that agency wants now is more attention, especially over surreptitious snooping on innocent Americans. But now comes a public admission that the nation's premiere and formerly secret surveillance network mistakenly used the wrong kind of cookie on its Web site.

I'm speaking of the tiny files that all sorts of Web sites quietly install on visitors computers acting as markers or tracking devices, applications that allow the site to recognize the user next time he or she visits. Well it turns out the NSA cookies weren't programmed to expire until 2035, violating government rules that cookies disappear when visitors shut down their browsers.

A privacy activist complained. The "Associated Press" asked questions and the agency said this, quote, "Apparently an upgrade in the software used to manage the site used default cookies which were considered persistent. After being tipped to the issue, we immediately disabled the cookies."

Much more LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right, live pictures now out of Oklahoma. This is near Oklahoma City and behind all that white smoke, those are houses on fire. More than a dozen homes have burned in Oklahoma after these grass fires started back on Tuesday.

Temperatures were up in the 80 degrees back then and the winds kicked up and this is what you've got. More than 30,000 acres on fire right now. There are helicopters being sent out right now with water- dropping buckets. There are firefighters on the ground, but you can see the winds are blowing, the smoke is tilting, it's not burning straight up.

And more houses, more lives completely changed. We also have some videotape that came in of the intensity of these flames. Firefighters have been talking about how difficult it has been to fight these fires. The weather conditions have been incredibly dry.

There's been a drought for the last six months in Oklahoma and humidity levels have dropped to less than two percent. Firefighters are expecting conditions to even worsen over the weekend and there's a fire ban, a ban on fires and fireworks in place in the state of Oklahoma.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We're watching this developing story as we're getting new live pictures in from our affiliate KWTW outside Oklahoma City. We're watching as a helicopter is picking up water. Those are 500-gallon buckets that they can use to douse these grass fires that have been burning virtually out of control across parts of Oklahoma and Texas.

And the state is doing everything it can right now to try to get a handle on these fires that have burned more than 30,000 acres and dozens of homes. So far, over Oklahoma and Texas, at least five people have died in these fires. There you can see a tight shot of the intensity of these flames. It has been such a dry season.

For the last six months, a drought in the area has caused these dry conditions and also emergency workers are saying that careless people are to blame for some of the spread of these fires. They don't want to jump to the conclusion of arson just yet, but they just want to get a hold and a control on these fires. But they are predicting that the weather conditions are going to get even dryer this weekend.

All right, much more news coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM" today with Ali Velshi.

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