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New Orleans Mayor Under Fire; Fight For Survival in Pakistan; Mission to Pluto Delayed

Aired January 17, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Delays and more delays for a first- of-its-kind mission to Pluto.
Let's go straight to Miles O'Brien. He's monitoring the rocket carrying this high-tech space probe.

What's the deal, Miles?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Two-zero-two-three Zulu. That is 3:23 p.m. Eastern time. That is the very end of this window today.

And that is all but a white flag to the weather that NASA is putting up. As it stands, we continue to look at that picture. You see the liquid oxygen as it bleeds off, about two-thirds of the way up the Atlas V rocket. It's horizontal, indicating strong winds there at the Kennedy Space Center. And those gusts are right at the red line, which would preclude them from launching at all today.

So, with it right on the edge, given the fact that it's got 24 pounds of plutonium on board, given the fact that this is 15 years in the making just to get to this point, given the year -- the fact that it's a 10-year flight to Pluto, and this is really the last opportunity to do it for quite some time, all that factored in. You don't push the envelope, as they say, Kyra.

So, we will watch it, but I -- I have got a fairly strong feeling that this going to be a "Groundhog Day" situation tomorrow.

Jacqui Jeras looking ahead for us.

Jacqui, what are you seeing?

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, the winds are pretty steady right now.

The sustained winds have picked up just a little bit, Miles, up to 24 miles per hour. Gusts are still at 32. We have seen them between 30 and 35. And I believe the threshold is about 38, when you do the math, or 33 knots, which is about 38 miles per hour.

We do have a strong cold front approaching. And the winds just to the west of here are even stronger. In fact, we have seen some gusts between 35 and 40 miles per hour just off to the west. So, that would certainly exceed that threshold. A cold front is going to be coming through Florida through the evening and overnight hours for tonight. And winds could be an issue again tomorrow. We think they will be strongest in the early morning hours, and, then, they will kind of level off, once that front starts to pull away into the Atlantic.

But we still could see winds, I think, in the afternoon hours.

And, Miles, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're looking at the same time frame for...

O'BRIEN: Yes.

JERAS: ... for a launch again tomorrow?

O'BRIEN: Yes. The...

JERAS: Winds may be 10 to 20 miles per hour, so, a little calmer -- calmer than they will be this afternoon.

O'BRIEN: Let's hope for that. The window opens tomorrow, 1:14 p.m. Eastern time.

We still, technically, have 20 minutes left in this opportunity. But, as Jacqui just told you, we are watching it, but it does not look very likely.

So, we will keep you posted, Kyra.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Maybe see you back here tomorrow. Maybe see you in a few minutes.

PHILLIPS: All right.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: I'm here for you, either way.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Minute by minute. Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right.

PHILLIPS: Well, he said New Orleans will be a chocolate city again. He also said God is mad at America.

And Ray Nagin didn't stop there. The New Orleans mayor made those comments at a Martin Luther King Day event yesterday. And, as you can imagine, he's facing some heavy fallout today.

For more, let's turn to our Gulf Coast correspondent, Susan Roesgen, live in New Orleans.

You have known Ray Nagin a long time, Susan. He -- he has always had interesting things to say.

(LAUGHTER)

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT: He does indeed, Kyra, sometimes unwise things to say, according to different people.

I talked to the mayor a couple of hours ago, and he told me he knows that he has offended some people. And, boy, did he ever. I went to City Hall down to the city building permits office, where there was a long line of people, both black and white, who said the mayor put his foot in his mouth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he was trying to play sides with all these -- the racial things that are going around right now. Like, you have the -- the black community saying, oh, the white people don't want us back here, and, then, he's trying to defend that. And, then, he's trying to defend the other side. So, his words should have just been chosen more carefully.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He used the wrong dairy product to describe us. We are more Neapolitan, not chocolate. We're more vanilla, strawberry, you know? That's -- it's stupid. It was a stupid comment, is what I think. You know, it's just pitiful. It doesn't do the city any justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROESGEN: Kyra, I also talked to the mayor himself, as I mentioned. He is doing damage control today. He said he meant to say one thing, but something else came out. He says he wasn't trying to divide the city, but he does say he wishes he could take back that comment about God wanting the city to be a majority African-American city.

He says he wasn't trying to divide people here; he was trying to unite the city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY NAGIN (D), MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: I'm apologetic. I am really sorry that some people took that the way they did. And that wasn't my intentions.

ROESGEN: What do you say to all the vanilla people in this city?

NAGIN: Oh, I say everybody is welcome. And, you know, for me, this whole thing about chocolate was a bad analogy, a bad acronym that I -- that I used. I shouldn't have used it. And I should have used something else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROESGEN: Kyra, you know, the mayor was speaking at a Martin Luther King Day event. He was whipped up in the passion of the moment.

Some people say that the mayor should have just stuck to Dr. King's words himself. He should have remembered what Dr. King said when he said, I judge a person not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character -- a lot of fallout from a few brief remarks yesterday Mayor Nagin.

PHILLIPS: Now, he's a first-term politician. And, of course, he has said some things in the past, I mean, referring to Russel Honore as that John Wayne dude.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: I mean, he has a way of saying things. Do you think that plays a factor in all this?

ROESGEN: Kyra, it does.

He is a politician. He does need to watch what he says. But he's a rookie politician. He was the head of the local television cable company before he ran for mayor, his first time ever elected to political office. And, then, of course, he faces the greatest disaster that any mayor could face. He has been under a lot of stress.

But I will tell you, Kyra, I spoke to a political analyst this afternoon who said, listen, the mayor knew very well what he was saying. It was an attempt, a clumsy attempt, to try to shore up African-American votes. But he has alienated the white voters in this city, who have been his base. So, it may be very interesting the next time when we have the election coming up and the mayor is running for reelection.

PHILLIPS: Yes, he's up for reelection. Do you think he's going to face a number of challenges?

ROESGEN: He does already, Kyra.

He has got three announced white candidates running against him, all politicians. And he may also face the head of the City Council, the African-American City Council president, Oliver Thomas. He has not announced yet, but he's making waves like he might run against the mayor.

So, the mayor could face a tough challenge, because people are looking back at his performance during Katrina. They are judging him by what he did then and what he has done since. And he could face a tough fight in April. It could the end of April when the election is held.

PHILLIPS: Susan Roesgen live from New Orleans -- thanks, Susan.

And, also, Mayor Ray Nagin is going to be on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" tonight. So, you don't want to miss that interview.

Now let's get straight to the newsroom, another developing story. (INAUDIBLE)

Tony, we have been covering baby Noor.

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We really have.

It is a -- it's a positive story overall, but a bit of a setback, something that wasn't unexpected, but just a little unwelcome setback, Kyra, to tell you about.

First, well, I will show you these, new pictures of baby Noor into CNN, the months-old Iraqi baby born with spina bifida, who was brought to the U.S. for surgery by U.S. soldiers. And the surgery was complicated. It required the repositioning of her spine in her back.

Now, that went well. She was released from the hospital last Friday, but -- after the surgery, but during a routine checkup today, doctors found a buildup of fluids in the same general area of the surgery. Don't know if it's spinal fluid or fluid from another source, but the bottom on this, Kyra, is it will have to be removed. And no date has been set for that procedure.

But, once she is back in the hospital, she will have the procedure to remove that fluid. And she will stay in the hospital for a few more days after that, just for observation -- so, a -- a bit of a setback, but not something that is totally unexpected.

PHILLIPS: Got it. Tony Harris, thanks so much.

HARRIS: Sure.

PHILLIPS: In on Saturday, out on Thursday -- doctors treating former President Gerald Ford say that they anticipate he will be well enough to go home from the hospital day after tomorrow.

He was admitted over the weekend with pneumonia. And, since then, doctors at Eisenhower Medical Center in Rancho Mirage, California, say the former president has been responding to treatment and is doing well. At 92, Ford is the nation's oldest living president.

Captured in Columbus -- the manhunt for two murder suspects ends a few miles from where the pair escaped from jail. Police found Johnny Earl Jones and Lamar Benton this morning at a motel in Columbus, Georgia.

Authorities say that the two had changed their clothes at a homeless camp shortly after escaping Saturday from a county jail in Phenix City, Alabama. That's just across the Chattahoochee River from Columbus. And a third inmate was captured within hours of the jailbreak. A jail guard who was stabbed 15 times is recovering at home.

A hostage standoff in the Southeast Georgia town of Statesboro ended peacefully today, about 24 hours after it began. Robert and Connie Brower surrendered to authorities after holding a lawyer, Michael Hostilo, hostage, claiming they had an explosive device. Both were charged with kidnapping. And authorities say Brower was upset after being convicted in a criminal case in which Hostilo was his court-appointed attorney. That standoff prompted city officials to cancel Monday's Martin Luther King parade. It would have passed the near scene of that standoff.

The news keeps coming. We will keep bringing it to you -- more LIVE FROM right after this .

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: There may soon be a new chief judge in the trial of Saddam Hussein. Mohammed (ph) Said al-Hamash has been named to the top spot in the courtroom.

The appointment is on an interim basis, but will likely become permanent. Al-Hamash is a deputy to the man who has presided over the trial since October. The chief judge submitted his resignation Sunday, though the Iraqi High Tribunal has yet to accept it. Hussein's trial is scheduled to resume a week from today.

We're closer to finding out the winners and losers of Iraq's parliamentary elections. Uncertified final results will be release some time after Thursday. The next big step, forming the new government. It's a challenge heavy on the mind of Iraq's president.

CNN's Michael Holmes was given exclusive access to Jalal Talabani and Iraq's West Wing.

Here's his report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just another day at the office for Jalal Talabani, except, his is no simple job; he is the president of Iraq.

We were granted extraordinary access to the president at this, an extraordinary time for his country.

JALAL TALABANI, IRAQI PRESIDENT: I am optimistic. But, of course, in Iraq, there is nothing easy.

HOLMES: Election results are due any day, and then begins the job of forming a government from the various, sometimes fractious, groups who won seats.

(on camera): Do you think that forming the government could take weeks or months?

TALABANI: I think weeks.

HOLMES: Weeks?

TALABANI: I hope. Sometimes, I'm too optimistic, but I hope two or three weeks. HOLMES: Yes.

(voice-over): Jalal Talabani is a personable, even jovial, man. Many of his fellow Kurds call him uncle. He's had a lifetime at the sharp end of Iraq's often violent politics. Now he faces yet another big challenge.

As a Kurd, it will be his job to help bring Shia and Sunni together and fashion a unity government from groups rarely unified.

TALABANI: Yes. The Kurdish can play the role of reconciliation, the role of mediation, the role of bringing them together, of balancing.

HOLMES: This day, like many others, meetings with ambassadors, first from the United Nations, later from Iran, oh, and a letter from another president, of the United States, sending him good wishes.

(on-camera): What goes on in these offices and corridors is nothing short of the nurturing of an infant democracy. This is the Iraqi West Wing, if you like. And we're about to walk into the Oval Office.

Now, this is not as grand, perhaps, as the Washington version, but, make no mistake. This very much a seat of power.

(voice-over): A key point of debate lately, whether Jalal Talabani would stay on as president. He tells us, the answer is yes, but not as a figurehead.

TALABANI: I must share in ruling the country. I don't want to be a puppet president.

HOLMES: Whether the Shia majority or the Sunnis will tolerate a powerful presidency in Kurdish hands is another matter.

We covered a lot of ground, the fears of Iranian influence in Iraq, which he says are exaggerating, to the insurgency, which he says can be defused.

TALABANI: Sunni participation in the process will end all kind of pretext to fight.

HOLMES: As for his fellow Kurds and their longtime ambition of independence:

TALABANI: They are different between realities and desires. Wishful thinking, something, and what is going on the ground, something else.

HOLMES: At the end of Jalal Talabani's day:

TALABANI: Now I am going to press conference. You can come.

HOLMES: And with that, a man apparently comfortable with the weight of historical responsibility moves on to his next engagement. Michael Holmes, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Word from Pakistan this hour. Four or five foreign fighters were killed in that U.S. airstrike on a Pakistani village last week, but still no evidence that al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, was among the dead.

He was the main target of the attack. According to Pakistani officials, al-Zawahri was invited to the dinner in the village, but apparently didn't show up. Eighteen villagers, including women and children, were killed in that attack. And that triggered anti- American demonstrations throughout Pakistan.

It's the dead of winter in Pakistan. And each day, it's a life- and-death struggle for survivors of October's killer earthquake.

ITN's Dan Rivers found out how dire the situation is while living alongside a family last week in Pakistan's frigid snowcapped mountains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN RIVERS, ITN REPORTER (voice-over): This is the only way to get to the village of Muri Patan (ph), a treacherous path covered in snow and ice. We're hiking up 6,500 feet to live alongside the survivors of last October's earthquake to see for ourselves how they are surviving the winter.

The locals watch on with bemusement. We're the first non- Pakistanis to ever have set foot here. And as we arrive, the weather closes in and we're appalled by what we find.

The families here are living in flimsy cotton tents. This is supposed to be the warmest part of the day. But the children have no protection from the extreme conditions.

Bebe Saphir (ph) is comforting her baby sister in the wreckage of the family home. She's been ill for three weeks. She has pneumonia.

That afternoon, Mohammed Sabir (ph) and his wife, Kartun (ph), take me past the wreckage of their home where they lost their first daughter to the grave of their second child, Havin (ph). This childless couple offer silent prayers.

Havin (ph) was just 18 months old. She died just 24 hour ago, a victim of the cold. We've camped in the middle of this snowbound community to experience just how grueling life here is. The more we look, the more desperate this place seems.

The most vulnerable of Muri Patan (ph) are weakening each day. The nearest doctor is a six-hour walk away. For some, it's an impossible journey.

By 6:00, it's dark, and the temperature is dropping below freezing. Fully dressed, an entire family huddles together to try and sleep.

(on camera): When we came to this village we weren't quite sure what to expect. But this is about as desperate as it gets. There are a dozen people crammed into this tent, and the tent itself is really flimsy. It's not even waterproof.

The blankets they've got won't keep them warm at night. And the ground here is frozen solid.

We're only putting up with this for a week. But for these people, they've got to stay here every single night.

(voice over): Going to bed here brings fear. It is the night, and it's gnawing cold that so often claims the weak.

Dan Rivers, ITV News, Pakistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: We want to take live pictures from NASA right now. We're continuing to follow delay after delay for a first-of-its-kind mission to Pluto.

As you know, this rocket is -- is carrying a high-tech space probe that is going to, hopefully, lift off from Florida's Cape Canaveral some time today. It could be scrapped. Our Miles O'Brien is on it. We are going to keep following it. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, are we going to Pluto or not?

O'BRIEN: Not today, Kyra.

See you back here tomorrow. Yes, they got it right down to about two minutes and 45 seconds to launch. And it appears that the weather was right on the edge. They were going to try anyhow. And one of the flight controllers in charge of the flight control system, which is part of the guidance system getting it to orbit in the right direction, reported no go, a red-line situation.

I -- I'm not exactly sure if it was weather related or a technical problems. But, in any case, no chance to launch for today. We will see you back here tomorrow.

PHILLIPS: It sounds good. Thanks, Miles.

Well, one of the most iconic spots in Manhattan is the legendary Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. But would you stay at the Waldorf if it were in Arizona?

Susan Lisovicz, live from the New York Stock Exchange, just a couple miles away from the landmark New York hotel, with the story.

I think, no matter where is it, people would stay at the Waldorf.

(LAUGHTER)

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I was laughing, Kyra, because I may be a couple miles away, but I'm light years away, if you know what I mean. Our offices are quite modest compared to the Waldorf.

But, Kyra, soon, you may be able to stay at the Waldorf-Astoria without being on Park Avenue. Hilton Hotels, which has owned the Waldorf since 1949, will re-brand three of its other properties with the Waldorf name. Starting February 1, the Waldorf-Astoria collection will be added to names of the Grand Wailea Resort in Maui, the Arizona Biltmore in Phoenix, and La Quinta Resort near Palm Springs, California.

The Waldorf will just be the latest luxury stand-alone hotel to see its name expanded to a chain of properties. Others include the St. Regis, Ritz-Carlton, and Fairmont. And Hilton wants to cash in as well.

Well, we are nearing the end of the trading day here. And it looks like investors came back from their three-day holiday weekend in a selling mood. The big negative today, undoubtedly, a nearly $2.50 jump in oil price to well above $66 per barrel now.

Let's take a look at the effect it's having on stocks. The Dow industrials have been under pressure all day, down 51 points, or half- a-percent. Just last week, the Dow topped 11000. Now it's at 10908.

The Nasdaq composite, meanwhile, dropping about 14 points, also half-a-percent.

Some big news expected after the closing bell that could set the trading tone tomorrow. Intel, IBM, Yahoo! all report their quarterly profits -- big tech bellwethers.

And that's the latest from Wall Street. Stay with us. LIVE FROM will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So, are you having a hard time keeping all your flu strains straight this year?

There's bird flu, also known as avian flu or H5N1, which hasn't been seen in the U.S., and pandemic flu, which hasn't erupted anywhere, but has generated a lot of discussion. And then there's the ordinary seasonal flu, which is making its presence felt, in varying degrees, across the country.

On this CDC map, you can see, it's worse in the Western states right now. They're shown in red.

And we want to sort out some of the flu news, how to avoid it, and what to do if you do get the bug, and what to make of the CDC advising against some common antiviral drugs.

Dr. Peter Wright is with Vanderbilt Medical Center and Vanderbilt Children's Hospital in Nashville, Tennessee.

Good to see you, Dr. Wright.

DR. PETER WRIGHT, VANDERBILT MEDICAL CENTER: How do you do?

PHILLIPS: All right.

So, we want to make clear that we're talking about ordinary flu right now. We won't even venture into bird flu, unless, of course, you bring it up and add a link.

(LAUGHTER)

WRIGHT: OK.

PHILLIPS: But regular...

(CROSSTALK)

WRIGHT: No. I...

PHILLIPS: Regular flu, looking at the past year, is it getting -- is it worse this season than last season, or is it getting better?

WRIGHT: We have flu almost every season. And this year looks very much like last year so far, a typical, not a particularly severe or unusually severe winter.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about -- we -- we ran this story yesterday talking about these two antivirals that were proven to not be working very well. And I hope I don't butcher the names, like usually do, but rimantadine and amantadine.

Did I say that right?

WRIGHT: Not quite.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Say it correctly.

WRIGHT: Rimantadine and amantadine.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: There we go. It's the dine, not the dine.

All right.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: All right. Tell me why these are not working.

WRIGHT: Well, I think it's fair to say this was surprising news, but they looked at strains, the number of strains from this year. And, virtually, all of them were resistant, in the same way we think about bacteria being resistant to antibiotics. We understand why. It's a small genetic change in the virus. But why this happened with this particular strain and whether it will continue to be a problem in future years, I think we just don't know.

PHILLIPS: All right. So, it's still kind of on the back-burner.

But we have been talking so much about Tamiflu and Relenza. If you were to compare these two to those two, can you even do that and say that one or both are better than the other pair?

WRIGHT: Well, they -- the -- the two pairs of drugs -- and they really are pairs, because they work in very similar ways each to each -- each the other -- are -- are both in our armamentarium. They are both drugs that we have against flu.

I think it's fair to say that the Tamiflu-Relenza pair is the one that is most used by physicians now. And, so, we still have that important drug to treat the seasonal flu.

PHILLIPS: So they're working?

WRIGHT: Yes. They do appear to be working.

PHILLIPS: Now, what about stockpiles? Is there enough of these drugs for the regular seasonal flu? And then looking ahead to bird flu, you know, we've been talking about stockpiling and there isn't enough. Where do we stand on both issues?

WRIGHT: I would predict that there would be enough for the seasonal epidemic of both of these anti-virals, Tamiflu and Relenza. I don't think there will be any problem. There was some concern about hoarding, about either people or countries creating their own individual stockpiles, but I think that there is enough of those drugs around to use them as appropriate to treat influenza. Not every case of influenza needs to be treated with any of these drugs, I think it's fair to say.

PHILLIPS: Final question, a lot of people having questions about flu shots.

WRIGHT: Well, I think it's fair to say it's not too late still to get a flu shot and there is some flu vaccine around. We are using the flu vaccines, the flu shots, increasingly in recent years, finding new groups that really need to have those, to have that protection. Although it's not perfect, it really is the best thing that we have to prevent flu. I would take one flu shot for ten doses of tamiflu.

PHILLIPS: Noted. Dr. Peter Wright of Vanderbilt. Thank you so much.

WRIGHT: You're very welcome.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, secret wiretaps versus civil liberties. Alberto Gonzales versus Al Gore. The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Invaluable weapon in the war on terror or a threat to the structure of our government? Very different views on the warrantless surveillance on e-mails and phone calls by the National Security Agency in the wake of September 11.

The invaluable weapon view of that of U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and the Bush administration in general. The threat to the government view, a quote from Al Gore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At present we still have much to learn about the NSA's domestic surveillance. What we do know about this pervasive wiretapping virtually compels the conclusion that the president of the United States has been breaking the law. Repeatedly and insistently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Nation's senior law enforcement officer begs to differ. Appearing last night on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE," Gonzales also suggested Gore has no room to throw stones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: With respect to the comments by the former vice president, it's my understanding that during the Clinton administration there was activity regarding the physical searches without warrants, Aldrin James (ph) as an example.

I can also say it's my understanding that the deputy attorney general testified before Congress that the president does have the inherent authority under The Constitution to engage in physical searches without a warrant. So those would certainly seem to be inconsistent with what the former vice president was saying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The White House weighed in as well, claiming Gore's hypocrisy, in the words of Scott McClellan, knows no bounds.

What would Martin Luther King think? A lot of controversial statements on the civil rights leader's birthday. Two prominent politicians mixing race with politics in remarks about the holiday. Guess what the result was? Controversy.

New York senator and possible Democratic presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, compared the Republican controlled House of Representatives to a plantation and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin urged black evacuees to return to what he called "Chocolate New Orleans," declaring that God wants New Orleans to stay a majority African- American city. Joining us to discuss the remarks, probably debate the remarks, nationally syndicated newspaper columnist Roland Martin, he joins us in Chicago, and in Washington, Ron Christie, a former adviser to both President Bush and Vice President Cheney, and the author of "Black in the White House." Great to have you both.

Let's get right to it. Let's listen to what Hillary said yesterday and let's talk about it. Here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D-NY): When you look at the way The House of Representatives has been run, it has been run like a plantation. You know what I'm talking about. It has been run in a way so that nobody with a contrary point of view has had a chance to present legislation, to make an argument, to be heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Ron, are you offended?

RON CHRISTIE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: I think Senator Clinton should do one of two things, she should either apologize to the American people for her outrageous remarks, or she should resign from the United States Senate.

As one who is a direct descendant of slaves, one who is a direct descendant of the terrible beating and raping and other terrible behavior that took place on plantations, for Senator Clinton to come out on Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday, a man who celebrated civil rights and peace, and make those terribly racially divisive comments, she should either retire from the United States Senate and resign, or she should apologize to the American people.

PHILLIPS: Roland?

ROLAND MARTIN, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I think first of all, I didn't agree with her use of the phrasing because everyone wants to pander to certain audiences on these types of occasions. I certainly hope that my counterpart's indignation is the same with those Republican senators who did not endorse the slavery apology that took place several weeks ago. But again, this is what we often see.

We have politicians who want send various messages. Hillary Clinton wants to appeal to African-Americans, because her support is not as solid as one thought it would be as she leads into this next election as well as laying the foundation for 2008. But it's no different when George W. Bush appears before Bob Jones University.

People send different signals to their respective bases in order to shore up their support. That's what she did. I don't think it was right. I don't agree what the Republicans are doing in The House in terms of stifling debate, but for her to use that kind of language wasn't proper.

PHILLIPS: So Bush went to Bob Jones, Clinton played the sax on "Arsenio Hall," Reagan went to Mississippi to talk about civil rights, Ron, it looks like she's just trying to garner the black vote.

CHRISTIE: Well, Kyra, if she's trying to garner the black vote by bringing up the worst in this country from one of the worst periods of American history, I think Senator Clinton has a lot to learn. Instead let's stop this. It makes me so angry that the Democratic leadership has been silent with her remarks. I know we'll talk about Mayor Nagin's remarks in a moment.

Instead, what the Republicans have done, and what they'll continue to do, is run on an agenda. To run on an economy which is creating more jobs, which is trying to run on the No Child Left Behind legislation which is narrowing the gap between achievement between African-American and White students in reading and math.

Let's talk about positive results, let's talk about meaningful policies. These sorts of comments to racially pander tore try to look for votes is just absolutely despicable. Let's focus on politics.

MARTIN: Actually, Kyra, I think one of the things we could also talk about is a lack of ethics by this Republican-led house, by also Tom DeLay and his...

CHRISTIE: Now, but we're talking about...

MARTIN: ... with Jake Abramoff. And -- but see, but that's precisely my point. The point is, we were talking about how politicians pander. And so my counterpart wants to automatically go to the Republican spin when he also wants to avoid a lot of the problems they have talked about. She was correct in what the Republicans have done to silence even their own members of their own parties.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Are you talking about diversity in the House of Representatives? Is that what you're talking about, Roland?

MARTIN: No, no, no, no, no. What I'm talking about is this here. She was wrong to equate what they are doing with being on a plantation. But I thought it was an appropriate analysis to criticize how they have been able to stifle debate, how when they were opposite of what the ethics committee did, they removed the chairman because he was too tough on fellow Republicans. So I think she was correct to criticize the House and their actions, but she should simply not have used the plantation remark to do so.

CHRISTIE: Kyra, and this is what absolutely makes me upset. We're to talk about a member of the United States Senate who talked about plantation, who was hearkening back to the worst time...

MARTIN: No, I was actually talking about both.

CHRISTIE: Excuse, I didn't cut you off, so don't do the same.

MARTIN: We're talking about both. CHRISTIE: Please don't cut me off. What we are talking about is using that sort of inflammatory rhetoric. If Senator Clinton has a problem with what's going on in the House of Representatives, Senator Clinton can talk about policies or talk about issues. But to just throw out these comments in front of an all black audience is absolutely atrocious.

And I'll take this one step further, Roland. If a Republican member of the United States Senate went to an African-American church and talked about the Democratic leadership being nothing more than a plantation with the way that they run things, the Democratic party would be out having press release, making call after call for that senator to resign. I am tired of the double standard.

MARTIN: Yes. They would doing just...

CHRISTIE: Excuse me, I didn't cut you off.

MARTIN: ... what you're doing.

CHRISTIE: I am tired of the fact that they are -- there is a double standard that the media does not recognize...

MARTIN: That's why you're here.

CHRISTIE: ... that the Democrats get away with this when it's a Democratic white politician, but if a Republican member comes forward and says that, then all hell breaks lose.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's move into part two.

MARTIN: Not true.

PHILLIPS: Let's move into part two. Gentlemen, do we know the recipe for chocolate? I'm just curious.

CHRISTIE: No, I wish we know.

PHILLIPS: Well, you know, according to Nagin, he knows the recipe, but let's start with what he first said about New Orleans becoming chocolate again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: This city will be chocolate at the end of the day. This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: All right. Then came all the questions from reporters. This one reporter from WDSU, a local station there, went up to Mayor Nagin and said what exactly did you mean by chocolate, sir? This what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAGIN: How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk and it becomes a delicious drink. That's the chocolate I'm talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: OK. Everyone is laughing, I'm sorry. It's just really hard to -- Roland, I want you both to respond. But is he OK?

MARTIN: It sounds like Mayor Nagin is trying to open a candy store once he actually leaves office. I mean, the reality is -- again, this is an example of a politician trying to pander to an audience. There's lots of criticism in New Orleans right now about the city; was 67 percent black, losing that because it has political implications, economic implications,. And that's what he was trying to do. Sure, under lots of pressure, trying figure out what is the future of the city.

Again, nonsensical comments that made absolutely no sense. And so, again, I don't know if Willy Wonka -- if you saw that movie, something along those lines, with the chocolate factory. But it doesn't make any sense. New Orleans is indeed changing, but he was trying to speak to a black audience by saying, oh, don't worry we will remain a chocolate city, which is still left in doubt.

PHILLIPS: Ron, I'm going to get you to respond. I just want you guys - I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, if you have a screen there in front of you.

CHRISTIE: I can see it, yes.

PHILLIPS; My friend from New Orleans sent this to me. Already a Web site, "Willy Nagin and the Chocolate Factory." You can buy a t- shirt or you can bumper sticker. "Willy Nagin and the Chocolate Factory," www.iamnotchocolate.com.

CHRISTIE: Kyra, here's one where Roland and I are going to agree. I think it was silly, I think it was nonsensical. I'm sure the mayor thought that he was reaching out and bring more folks back to New Orleans. And one thing I applaud the mayor about is he immediately apologized today. He recognized that his comments were off base, were off mark. He apologized for that.

And on Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday, a day of celebration, I don't think that sort of language or that sort of tone has any proper place in the discourse. But I applaud Mayor Nagin -- while he said something very silly and inappropriate, he had the courage to stand up and admit that what he was saying was wrong.

PHILLIPS: Well, you know what's interesting...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Roland, remember when he talked about the HUD secretary months and months back. MARTIN: Alphonso Jackson.

PHILLIPS: Thank you, Alphonso Jackson. He actually came forward and said New Orleans is probably not going to be as black as it once was. And a lot of people started talking about that and saying, you know, it's a shame because the black community is such a huge part of the make-up of New Orleans and the culture and the music and everything else. So it looks -- I mean, could he have meant -- did he have the same, you know, agenda here and just didn't really say it in a very sensitive way?

MARTIN: Well, first of all, the reason we see the bumper sticker and shirt really was how he tried to explain it afterwards. Because also Washington, D.C., its nickname is chocolate city. The reality is -- the issue, when Alphonso Jackson made the comment -- a guy who I know and respect, know from Dallas, we're homeboys from Texas -- is that New Orleans not being majority black has huge implications in terms of the city council, the state legislature, the House and the Senate.

And so that's one of the reasons why you have this sort of -- this anger that's brewing up because the implications are major. So it's not something that you really can joke about, because there are people who potentially could not have their jobs if New Orleans goes from being majority a black city to majority Hispanic or white.

PHILLIPS: Ron, final thought, because we've got to wrap it up. But this is the last thing New Orleans needs now, is some sort of racial uproar amid everything else.

MARTIN: I absolutely agree with you. What New Orleans needs to do, which it's continue to do, which is to regrow, to reexpand, to bring in new life and new diversity to this city. With a city with that cultural heritage and that richness of diversity, I look forward to a New Orleans being rebuilt black, white, all people of all stripes, different races, being back in that city.

Because it's the jewel of the South and I just look forward to the day that the people who have been displaced by this terrible tragedy get -- once again get the opportunity to move back home.

PHILLIPS: Ron Christie and Roland Martin, what a pleasure. Great talking points today, gentleman. Thanks so much.

CHRISTIE: Thanks, Kyra.

MARTIN: Go and get some chocolate cake, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That's right. Send me a couple of Wonka bars, will you? Thank you.

MARTIN: Will do. Will do.

PHILLIPS: Don't forget your bumper sticker. All right, guys.

Well, 300 years after his birth, we celebrate the wit, the wisdom, the inventions, the money. LIVE FROM is all about Benjamin, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We've all heard of stool pigeons, but what an about a stool parrot? A British woman named Suzy Collins had been secretly meeting a guy named Gary in a flat she shared with her alleged boyfriend, Chris Taylor and Taylor's African gray parrot, Ziggy. Stay with me now.

When Ziggy squawked, "Hi Gary," as Collins answered her cell phone, Taylor grew suspicious. Ziggy also made smooching sounds every time he heard the name Gary on the tele. Confrontation and break-up ensued.

Collins says, "I'm not proud of what I did, but I'm sure Chris would be the first to admit, we were having problems." After realizing he couldn't bear listening to Ziggy harp on the incident, Taylor asked a local parrot dealer to find him a new home.

The now-wiser Taylor says, "I wasn't sorry to see the back of Suzy after what she did, but it really broke my heart to let Ziggy go."

He was a man of science and a man of the arts, the most lovable curmudgeon of all the founding fathers. You can see his face on the 100 dollar bill, but if you want to see where he lived, you'll have to go to London.

No time for the trip, but sit tight and enjoy a tour of Ben Franklin's home with CNN's Jim Boulden on this, the American Merlin's 300th birthday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Boston can claim his birth place 300 years ago and Philadelphia his residence as a founding father. But those original houses are long gone. You have to come to London to see a house where Benjamin Franklin wrote and thought and created for 16 years. In these rooms, he researched the Gulf stream, experimented with the lightning rod and perfected a number of his inventions.

MARCIA BALISCIANO, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN HOUSE: He started his Franklin stove in Pennsylvania but carried forward in this house and, in fact, in one of the rooms we've got the remnants of a Franklin stove that he was working on which matches his description from letters.

BOULDEN (on camera): Benjamin Franklin wanted to improve everything he saw including this, an instrument known as musical glasses. He thought this sounds OK, but maybe there's a we to have the glasses rotate and not your fingers.

(voice-over): So in this very house he invented this, the glass harmonica. Though I couldn't get much of a musical note out of it. He also saw his first pair of bifocals in London and set about improving them.

(on camera): Franklin wrote that he often used this staircase for exercise, he sort of had his own stairmaster.

(voice-over): After laying derelict for decades, millions of dollars have transformed number 36 Craven Street into a museum. The owners are sure he would approve of the new show put on for tourists.

(on camera): So here is William Hewlett, says Hewlett-Packard.

(voice-over): So is the Royal Society of the Arts, which gives out a medal each year in his name. It feels this man of science would support its current focus on the environment and globalization.

(on camera) Do you think Franklin would approve?

PEGGY EGAN, RSA: I definitely think Franklin would approve. He was a fantastic enlightenment individual, and practically everything we're doing now would be of interest to him, definitely.

BOULDEN (voice-over): Franklin came to his London residence a British subject, in 1775 he left a reluctant American patriot.

BALISCIANO: This house does service the de facto American embassy because it's people like William Pitt that come to negotiate with Franklin, even if he's fallen out of favor with George III, it's still thought that if anyone can pull together an 11th hour reconciliation, it's Benjamin Franklin.

BOULDEN: In that endeavor, of course, he failed. Jim Boulden, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: More than 200 years after Ben Franklin left this world, an astonishing number of his words live on. You may be surprised to find out how relevant many his quotation still are, like this one: "Search others for there virtues, thyself for thy vices." Here's a classic you probably already know: "Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead." Today we might add and the survivor isn't a parrot.

Oil hits a three month high. A check on the financial markets is next. Ali Velshi straight ahead.

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