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Senate Panel Opens Hearing on Domestic Spying; Tens of Thousands of Muslims Launch Worldwide Protests Regarding Cartoon Depiction of the Prophet Mohammed; Coretta Scott King Lies in Honor; Looking at Alternative Medical Facilities

Aired February 06, 2006 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So you want to know more about domestic spying? If you listened in on a long-awaited Senate hearing today you'll still be out of luck. The Judiciary Committee heard today from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, who says the program is legal but most people never should have learned it existed.
The panel's ranking Democrat doesn't agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our enemy is listening, and I cannot help but wonder if they aren't shaking their heads in amazement at the thought that anyone would imperil such a sensitive program by leaking its existence in the first place and smiling at the prospect that we might now disclose even more or perhaps even unilaterally disarm ourselves of a key tool in the war on terror.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Mr. Attorney General, in America, our America, nobody is above the law, not even the president of the United States. There is much that we did not know about the president's secret spying program. I hope we are going to get some more answers, some real answers, not self-serving characterizations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The panel's chairman, Arlen Specter, suggests a special court review that program, but Gonzales wouldn't commit to that.

Well, the whole debate boils down to security, the NSA's middle name.

Let's get some insights from our national security correspondent, David Ensor.

What do you think, the split on party lines?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, close, but not quite. The chairman, Senator Specter, and also Senator DeWine on the Republican side, both stated that they were not so sure about the underpinnings, the legality of this program.

So it's clearly something that isn't right down party lines, but yes, most of the fireworks, most of the sharpest criticism has come from the Democrats, people like Dianne Feinstein, for example. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: This administration is effectively saying, and the attorney general has said it today, it doesn't have to follow the law. And this, Mr. Attorney General, I believe is a very slippery slope. It is fraught with consequences.

The intelligence committees have not been briefed on the scope and nature of the program. They have not been able to explore what is a link or an affiliate to al Qaeda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: Dianne Feinstein of California -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: David, I talked with senators Durbin and Cornyn within the past 20 minutes -- minutes or so. And, you know, the controversy is over so many laws being broken or laws going back to 1947.

Does it look like there might be any budging or any discussion about amending any of these laws, laws that everybody's having such a hard time with? It seems to be the center of the controversy.

ENSOR: Well, you get the sense from the attorney general he's not interested in seeing any changes in the law. That's sort of the way he puts it in his testimony.

I have talked privately to some other administration lawyers who have said that if Congress were to propose changes in the FISA law, the intelligence law that we're mostly talking about, the 1978 law, that that might be acceptable. But if you listen to the way he talks, the attorney general, well, his line is, no. He wants this to be regarded as legal, as it is right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GONZALES: The terrorist surveillance program is necessary, it is lawful, and it respects the civil liberties we all cherish. It is well within the mainstream of what courts and prior presidents have authorized. It is subject to careful constraints, and congressional leaders have been briefed on the details of its operation.

To end the program now would be to afford our enemy dangerous and potentially deadly new room for operation within our own borders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: Attorney General Gonzales -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Is it possible that the senators could have the power to just end this type of surveillance?

ENSOR: They could certainly pass a law that would end it. That would probably be a court challenge by the administration, and then we would get a decision by the Supreme Court which ultimately would arbitrate this thing -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: David Ensor following the hearings for us.

Thank you so much. We'll continue to talk to you throughout the day.

Now we want to take you straight to Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of defense, holding a brief right now. Let's listen in.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: ... the department to be here, along with her team and experts in various aspects of this budget, to be able to make a presentation and then respond to your questions. I understand there have been some breakout groups on specific subjects, but that will be available for all of you to get the kind of next-level detail. The QDR, of course, has already been made available.

And with that, I will ask General Pace to make some remarks, and then we'll turn you over to Tina and her team and others -- Pete.

Pet is going to make some remarks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One question, if you don't mind.

PHILLIPS: Right now Peter Pace, the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, they are addressing the 2000 budget. And of course we want to listen in to their reaction on the QDR about the amount of money that will be going toward Iraq, Afghanistan, and Hurricane Katrina victims. That seems to be where the majority of that money is going.

We will continue to follow this. When Q&A happens, we will take it live. Of course you can go to CNN.com/pipeline there, where it is carrying it right now in its entirety.

Well, an outburst disrupts the sentencing proceedings of Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in the U.S. in the 9/11 attacks. Just as jury selection began, Moussaoui proclaimed, "I am al Qaeda." Then as he was being removed from the court, Moussaoui shouted, "This trial is a circus!"

He was brought back into the courtroom only to be removed again. Moussaoui has pleaded guilty to six conspiracy counts in connection with the 9/11 attacks. Once jurors are selected they will only be deciding his punishment, life in prison or death.

Whatever the politics, whatever the controversy, the people who fight terrorists still have to figure out how the enemy communicates. What they find is almost always top secret.

So CNN's Kelly Wallace did some reconnaissance of her own.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DENNIS HOPPER, ACTOR, "E- RING": What did NSA get from us?

BENJAMIN BRATT, ACTOR, "E- RING": They intercepted a call to DIMA from an American. HOPPER: Get out of town.

BRATT: The problem is, we can't listen to it.

HOPPER: Says who?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hollywood's take on super-sensitive spying by the National Security Agency on American citizens, a program so secret no one in the know will talk about it. So, we had to rely on experts like Ira Winkler, a former NSA analyst turned computer security guru who wrote the book "Spies Among Us: How To Stop Spies, Terrorists, Hackers & Criminals You Don't Even Know You Encounter Every Day."

Winkler says to avoid detection, bad guys might scramble data before it's transmitted.

IRA WINKLER, FORMER NSA ANALYST: A nice simple file like this looks like that.

WALLACE: Other ways would-be terrorists try to fly below the radar online -- hiding data inside a picture, setting up free e-mail accounts -- numerous providers offer these -- and using codes to communicate.

WINKLER: There's just so much data out there that it's almost impossible to find the right people that you're looking for just randomly.

WALLACE: Like Winkler, Rebecca Givner-Forbes spends her days monitoring the Internet. She's an analyst with the Terrorism Research Center. Her specialty? Jihadist Web sites and chat rooms.

REBECCA GIVNER-FORBES, TERRORISM RESEARCH CENTER: This particular discussion thread has an amateur aspiring jihadist asking for help with his explosives recipe.

WALLACE: She says it's hard to know if a posting is coming from inside or outside the United States.

GIVNER-FORBES: The software that they use, these message forums, allows for private messaging between members through the Web site. So then they never even have to do so much as give out an e-mail address.

DAVID STRATHAIRN, ACTOR, "SNEAKERS": I'm going to bounce this call through nine different relay stations throughout the world and off two satellites.

WALLACE: Hackers in the movie "Sneakers" show just what the NSA may be up against when it comes to monitoring phone calls. Adding to the challenge, Winkler says, terrorists taking advantage of disposable cell phones and specialized telephone cards that can't be easily traced.

WINKLER: I could walk into any store and buy a card like this. And then I could plug it into this phone that I bring with me all over the place and that card is basically good anywhere in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "E-RING": Find out where the phone was when it received the signal.

WALLACE: But as we see in "E-Ring," NBC's drama set inside the Pentagon, surveillance is just one part of the mission. Figuring out what it all means may be even more difficult.

(on camera): And that's a real-life challenge for the NSA no matter how the debate ends over the legality of its eavesdropping on American citizens.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PHILLIPS: In Afghanistan today, an assassination thwarted. A provincial governor in the northern part of the country says security forces foiled a brazened attempt to kill him.

Adu Mohammed (ph) says that the would-be suicide bomber had asked for an interview to discuss setting up a computer school. He showed up with a bomb. No one was hurt.

Elsewhere, a U.S. service member was killed today in a shootout. Militants attacked his patrol in eastern Afghanistan and then fled.

Live pictures once again from Auburn Street here in Atlanta, Georgia, as a number of people continue to file in through the Ebenezer Church, paying their respects to Coretta Scott King, who, as you know, died at the age of 78 last Monday. This is the same church her husband Martin Luther King Jr. used to preach right there at the pulpit, right behind her.

And then going on right across the street, the Horizon Sanctuary, a musical tribute continues to Coretta Scott King.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Deep, dark, and too often deadly, especially in the past few weeks after at least 16 deaths in West Virginia coal mines between January 2 and February 1. Coal mines nationwide stand down for safety.

The Mine Safety and Health Administration wants operators and workers to take time before each shift to review procedures and rehearse responses to inevitable accidents. Among the recommendations, making sure miners know where emergency oxygen is and how to use it, having up-to-date maps and clearly-marked escape routes, and holding drills to cut the time needed for escapes.

Apologies from Lebanon after fiery protests yesterday targeting the Danish Consulate in Beirut. The protesters, Muslims outraged by cartoon depictions of the Prophet Mohammed. The Beirut protest was planned and well publicized, but it still took Lebanese security hours to get the upper hand. Our Brent Sadler is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): The fire- gutted aftermath of a blazing inferno. But Muslim anger at what demonstrators denounced as Western disrespect for Islam was mixed, say authorities here, with violent political extremism, igniting this firestorm aimed at Danish diplomatic interests.

Religious blasphemy, explains Middle East analyst Rami Khouri, originally lit the fuse, but other critical factors he claims are now at play.

RAMI KHOURI, POLITICAL ANALYST: It's political provocateurs who are trying to incite violence. Two, you have a strong religious sentiment that is critical and really angry at what happened with these cartoons in Europe. And three, it's just the wider context of Arab and Muslim fear about what the Western world is really trying to do in the Arab world.

SADLER (on camera): The Danish Consulate is on the fourth floor of the high-rise office block, but reinforced steel doors kept the rioters out. Other levels, though, were looted and ransacked.

(voice over): Lebanese ponder the problem if their own newspapers, but many outside the Islamic world are trying to understand why a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed offends Muslims so much.

We sought answers from these undergraduates and their lecturer discussing the history of Islamic movements at the University of Beirut.

PROF. AHMED MOUSSALI, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF BEIRUT: The casting of doubt on the figure of the prophet which is seen by the Muslims as such by these cartoons is as if they are saying that Islam is not a true religion.

SADLER: American student Sara Barclay from Philadelphia plans to study here a year. A Christian believer, along with many others here, she says that while empathizing with Muslim classmates, she questions the potentially damaging scale of global protests in the name of Islam.

SARA BARCLAY, U.S. STUDENT: I think that this sort of reaction and the violent reaction is wrong. I think there was -- there could have been other ways to deal with it more diplomatic.

SADLER: Muslim students in this class say any image of their prophet, including Jesus, is wrong. But some believe that as a result of the violence in Beirut and in neighboring Damascus, Syria, their cause may have been damaged in the battle over the principle of press freedom.

DIANA KOBAYTER, LEBANESE STUDENT: We need to show them that they are wrong. But by doing this, we are losing this ability to show them that they are wrong.

SADLER: Many in Lebanon seem to agree that storming the Danish Consulate was wrong and suspect a peaceful protest backed by embarrassed Muslim clerics was possibly hijacked to serve a different agenda set by organized Islamic extremists.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: The cartoon controversy rages around the world. We're going to talk with a journalist on the scene in Afghanistan later this hour on LIVE FROM.

The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: I guarantee you, Coretta Scott King can hear the sounds of Angela Christy (ph) right now in the heavens. Amazing musical tribute going on there at the Horizon Sanctuary right across the street from Ebenezer Church where Martin Luther King used to speak. That is where Coretta Scott King right now, her body lying in honor as people pay their last respects right across the street.

Well, you see what's happening right here. The torch has been passed. And one mourner saw it as she viewed the body of Coretta Scott King today lying in honor at the church right here where her late husband preached.

And then as you can see, the multicultural tribute to Mrs. King's lifelong love of music, entertainers, family and friends are on hand.

So is our Rusty Dornin.

Rusty, I know you are there on Auburn Street. You're in the middle of both, but boy, I wish you could be inside the Horizon Sanctuary right now. It's incredible.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It would be a lot nicer in there and a lot more rousing than it is out here, Kyra. These folks out here are braving the elements. It's very chilly, it's been raining all afternoon, but thousands of people have been filing by the casket in the old Ebenezer Baptist Church.

And when you say Martin Luther King used to speak there, that's just putting it mildly. He used to give inspirational sermons during the '60s, preaching nonviolence and social justice. He was a pastor here, along with his father before him. They actually were co-pastors together for a number of years.

Apparently the Southern Christian Leadership Conference was borne out of meetings that were right here at the old Ebenezer Baptist church. And of course Coretta Scott King was also a member here. It is only fitting that she be honored here in Atlanta by her fellow churchgoers and her fellow members in the city. And people have just been pouring in. As you said, across the street at the new Ebenezer Baptist Church, there's about 1,500 people there that have been listening to a variety of musical celebration of Coretta Scott King's life.

Let's take a listen.

(MUSIC)

DORNIN: The rousing celebration, again a variety of artists. We still have not yet heard from Gladys Knight, who is set to perform "The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me."

And also, Oprah Winfrey came. She came by the old Ebenezer Baptist Church to pay her respects to Coretta Scott King, and she is staying here. And she is going to tell the folks in the new Ebenezer Baptist Church a little later towards the closing of the service her feelings, her thoughts about Coretta King's life.

The closing remarks will be made by Yolanda King, one of the daughters in the King family.

Of course the funeral tomorrow expected to -- President Bush is expected to give several comments. And I almost forgot, the service tonight is going to feature many of the heroes of the civil rights movement who will be speaking and honoring Coretta King's life -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We should just say it's a nonstop celebration of her life for days to come. Right, Rusty?

DORNIN: In her hometown, yes. Not necessarily her hometown, but where she spent much of her life.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely. Rusty Dornin, thank you so much on Auburn Avenue, right there downtown Atlanta, Georgia.

Moving on to a deadly shooting at a music video shoot in New York. Police say that a bodyguard for rapper Busta Rhymes was killed by a single shot to the chest early yesterday. Several other celebrities are said to be on hand at the time. Police are investigating reports that the shooting followed an argument between one of the stars entourage and the production crew.

Well, the venues are ready, the snow is in place, the athletes are poised for the start of the winter Olympics in Torino, Italy, four days from today. But the Alpini elite Italian military unit believes that you can never be too prepared.

Here's our Alessio Vinci.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): They are trained for war, although here they are practicing for their own shooting competition.

And they are trained for search and rescue operations in case of avalanches or worse. But this time the Alpini have a different mission: preparing the terrain for Alpine skiing competitions, securing safety nets all along the slopes, and removing obstacles that at high speeds could prove fatal.

(on camera): During the downhill race, skiers fly down this slope at over 100 kilometers per hour. At such breakneck speeds, the preparation of the slope is as important as the athletes' training. A bump or an icy patch in the wrong place could have dire consequences.

(voice over): Bode Miller knows it well, although on this occasion he managed to walk away on his own. It is not always that way.

COL. GIOVANNI MANIONE, 3RD ALPINE REGIMENT: There might be a huge risk from the safety point of view if the nets are not well -- well laid down, and if they left some hole on the bottom, that might cause serious danger and injuries to the athletes.

VINCI: Should that happen, the Alpini are just as ready to help.

Colonel Manione led his men in several war zones, Kosovo and more recently Afghanistan.

MANIONE: In fact, in Afghanistan we are doing the same job we are doing here. We are working for the spirit of peace. So, although technically it is completely didn't, spiritually it is exactly the same thing.

VINCI: A spirit world athlete will surely appreciate.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Italy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: All right. Real quick now, who is Ben Bernanke? Don't feel bad if you don't know. Your broker knows, though.

Bernanke is the guy who is replacing Alan Greenspan as Federal Reserve chairman. He was sworn in privately last week, but this morning President Bush visited the Fed for a public ceremony. Greenspan was there, too, along with another former Fed chairman, Paul Volcker.

One city wants to go to the source of its garbage problems. It's targeting fast-food chains.

J.J. Ramberg has more on that story live from the New York Stock Exchange.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Diagnosed with a disease her doctor said would kill her, Coretta Scott King looked elsewhere for hope and healing. Her search led to a Mexican clinic that specialized in alternative cures, past tense. That clinic is now closed. Its founder in treatments under scrutiny. CNN's Dan Lothian has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the border, 16 miles south of San Diego, Michigan army veteran Dick Doletzky put his life in the hands of a small alternative medicine clinic after he was diagnosed with cancer. He was referred by a relative who had been treated there.

DICK DOLETZKY, PATIENT: I've just been in great shape ever since, and I said, if I ever get cancer, that's where I'm going.

LOTHIAN: Santa Monica Health Institute in Rosarito Beach has claimed its holistic approach of magnets, diets and oxygen therapies can heal chronically and terminally ill patients, like those battling cancer. What some call quackery was just the right prescription for Doletzky, who says he's suspicious of traditional treatment and the U.S. health care system.

DOLETZKY: They don't want to cure cancer, it's all money.

LOTHIAN: But here, patients said they were offered hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would have died if they had not taken me.

LOTHIAN: The families of other patients have been less impressed and blame the clinic's unorthodox treatments for hastening deaths of relatives being treated there.

And just days after 78-year-old Coretta Scott King checked in for treatment of advanced ovarian cancer and then died, the Mexican government ordered the facility closed, citing unproven treatments and unauthorized surgeries. The clinic claims the government's action is unrelated to King's death. The founder and director says they are working with the health department to correct any alleged infractions, and he expects the clinic to re-open soon.

(on camera): This case puts the spotlight on alternative clinics growing in popularity south of the border. They are often controversial, operating outside of U.S. regulations and oversight, and experts say the claims they make and treatments they offer are sometimes dangerous.

(voice-over): But patients who say they've exhausted all traditional treatments like chemotherapy and radiation or have lost faith in those therapies say they're willing to take the risk.

BRENICE BRITT, PATIENT: They know what they're doing. They're saving lives.

LOTHIAN: And in this case, they seem unaware of or unfazed by the criminal record of the clinic's founder, 72-year-old Kurt Donsbach. Among the list of charges and accusations, court records show he pleaded guilty to federal charges a decade ago, of smuggling illegal medications into the U.S. from Mexico. And Donsbach, who has no medical degree, was charged by authorities in California during the '70s for practicing medicine without a license.

For now, his Mexico operation is closed, patients told to find other facilities. But it's clear more and more Americans will keep traveling south of the border, hoping to find the miracle cure.

Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: King's children say they didn't know the clinic founder had a criminal past. As a matter of fact, they say the clinic came highly recommended to them. But Mrs. King is just one of many people who turned to holistic healing, searching for something, anything, that might give them longer life and peace of mind.

Dr. Deepak Chopra explores the healing power of the mind, body and spirit. He has written a number of best sellers including "Perfect Health: The Complete Mind Body Guide," and "Quantum Healing: Exploring the Frontiers of Mind Body and Medicine." And Dr. John Abramson also knows mind and body medicine. He's taught at Harvard University and has written about better ways for doctors to take care of their patients in his book "Overdosed America. " Both are here to share their wisdom.

Gentlemen, great to see you both. John, let's start with you. Dan Lothian mentioned in this piece that this clinic talked about oxygen chambers, magnets, diets, is there any proven medical documentation that shows that this works?

DR. JOHN ABRAMSON, AUTHOR, "OVERDOSED AMERICA": Kyra, I'm sorry to say that there's not, and so many of these therapies that people go elsewhere for, feeling that American medicine is not looking out for their best interests, are going to try unproven therapies that don't end up helping.

I think it shows, though, that people need their hope and their life spirit supported, and so many times we in American medicine fail to do that. I think maybe we're driving many of our patients across the border looking for hope.

PHILLIPS: John, you bring up an interesting point about lifting spirits. Deepak, in many ways you look at the clinics. It is like a manipulation of truth. We know there exists this ancient wisdom. Within that there is holistic healing. It's mind of body versus these alleged gimmicks that help save people. Explain how the manipulation takes place with something that's very real.

DR. DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR, "PERFECT HEALTH": This holistic center is not really a holistic center.

Holistic medicine simply means understanding that our cognition, our perception, our social interactions, our moods, our emotions, our personal relationship relationships, all these influence our biological response. So there's a lot of good integrated medicine being practiced in the United States, and now there are courses. I teach one at Harvard for the training of internists once a year. Many university hospitals are offering electives for medical students.

Holistic medicine is much more than giving somebody acupuncture or an herbal supplement. It is understanding really the integration between mind, body, spirit and environment and social interactions as well.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about some examples. I want you and John to respond to this. If you go to the National Institute for Health, it says that 62 percent of Americans used alternate or complementary treatment such as prayer, natural products, meditation, yoga, diet- based therapies. John, are they using these because they are working?

ABRAMSON: Yes, they are, Kyra, because just like Deepak is saying, health is a mixture. It is a combination what science can figure and what's in the human spirit or the human soul or the existential experience. What we need to do as physicians is combine both of these modalities so that when we provide the best of science, we are also providing the caring and healing that happens on a subjective experience level.

PHILLIPS: Deepak, you do that. Your specialty as an M.D. was brain chemistry. When people come to you, you never give them false hope, but you do combine the spiritual sense with the medical side. It is something that Einstein and Gandhi talked about all the time. These laws of nature we can never understand. How do you start with someone that comes to you and says I need your help. I'm dying

CHOPRA: I always try to bring them to a state of peace, to a state of settled awareness, to a state of calmness because we know that when your mind is silent and quiet, then your body actually heals itself better. On the other hand, if you are very stressed, then there are all kinds of hormones that interfere with the healing response. You know, adrenaline and cortisol and many other things.

At the same time, I think to say false hope is sometimes to use that expression as an oxymoron. There's no such thing as false hope. Either you have hope or you don't have hope. You know, statistics do not apply to the individual patient. It's like asking somebody from New York City, you know, that the average income of a person in New York City is maybe $60,000, doesn't tell me what your income is if you come from New York City or knowing the average temperature in Atlanta for the year doesn't tell me what the temperature is today.

So I always tell the patients you must believe in the diagnosis, but not necessarily in the prognosis because many things that you can do to offer yourself hope. I think that's a good place to start.

PHILLIPS: John, you talked about a number of medical schools across the country incorporating courses in prayer, meditation, alternative medicine, and you've written about Overdosed America, too many people dependent on drugs, doctors telling their patients they need certain drugs because they get a kickback from certain companies.

Is it a good sign that we are seeing more medical schools talking about alternative medicine?

ABRAMSON: Kyra, it is a wonderful sign, and yet too much of our medical knowledge is coming from the drug companies and the medical device companies and is developed because it is going to generate profits instead of health.

At the same time that we're turning towards a genuinely more holistic approach, we are also having our science serving commercial interests over and above the health interests over and above the health interests, and I think that's the real challenge that we have to meet in American healthcare.

PHILLIPS: Deepak when you recently talked to doctors at Harvard, I know we have some video of this seminar. What did you want those doctors to walk away with, maybe the most important thing you wanted them to walk away with when you talked to them?

CHOPRA: The most important thing is that subjectivity is very important in determining patient's biological responses. That when your patient feels cared for or loved, then there's a response in the brain. It is called limbic resonance that actually accelerates the healing process.

You know, I totally agree with John when he says that drug companies have a vested interest in promoting medical education. Eighty-five percent of the pages in medical journal are mostly advertisements for drugs. And these drug companies frequently sponsor what are called CME credit educational programs.

It is a fact that 36 to 40 percent of patients in American hospitals suffer from what is called iatrogenic disease which is disease as a result of medical prescriptions. The number one cause of drug addiction in the world is not street drugs, but legally prescribed medication from physicians.

PHILLIPS: So if someone is ill, they're watching this segment. The National Institute of Health says, look, if you're looking for alternative ways to go. They have a checklist. Look for training qualifications and licensing. Brief consultation on the phone. How often he or she treats patients with your condition. Scientific support for the treatment. What happens on first visit or assessment and charges payment options.

I want to ask you both to -- I want to ask you both --- John, would you add anything to this, if someone was looking for an alternative route right now?

ABRAMSON: I sure would, Kyra. I would say talk to your primary care doctor because primary care doctors have the unique position of addressing a person's whole needs, as well as their medical need. So talk to your primary care doc, share with your primary care doctor your concerns, and make a plan with your primary care doctor that integrates what you need along with the best science. PHILLIPS: Deepak, what would you add?

CHOPRA: I would add the fact that -- first of all, everything that John said. But I would also say that patients should question the legitimacy of alternative treatments, but they should also question the legitimacy of many mainstream treatments that are offered by regularly licensed physicians, whether they are chemotherapists or radiation oncologists. Just the fact that you are more informed and that you question so-called medical authority allows you to actually make choices that are much more intelligent.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. John Abramson, it's so true what positive thinking can do in many ways in our lives. Gentlemen, thank you very much.

CHOPRA: Thanks.

ABRAMSON: Pleasure, Kyra, thank you.

PHILLIPS: Honoring Coretta Scott King in music and in words. Expected soon, a special tribute from Oprah Winfrey. Also coming up, Gladys Knight. We're going to bring that all to you as soon as it happens. The news keeps coming. More LIVE FROM right after this. .

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Protests over the prophet drawings turn deadly outside the U.S. air base north of Kabul, Afghanistan. The Associated Press reports at least two protesters were killed in clashes with police, and there were similar scenes at the capital.

On the line with us from Kabul, journalist Tom Coghlan.

Tom, can you give us a sense -- I mean, we see the video, but we really don't know how this is escalating and how big it is getting and if it's happening all through the night. Give us a feel for what you're seeing.

TOM COGHLAN, JOURNALIST; Well, I think the protest in Bagram today was certainly a violent one. Two protesters died during the protests at Bagram Air Base, the main U.S. air base north of the capital of Afghanistan, Kabul.

Now, what seems to have happened is that about 2,000 protesters marched towards the base. And there's an outer security ring there, which is manned by Afghan security forces. When the protesters reached that outer ring, some kind of clash developed, and Afghan police opened fire.

Now, eight Afghan policemen were injured, two protesters killed and a further five protesters injured. The U.S. military spokesman from within the base. They're playing it down, they're saying it wasn't such a big event. They say the number of protesters they put in in the low hundreds, and they say that the event was largely peaceful. It's unclear, but (INAUDIBLE), there's the weight of evidence coming from the Afghan side from this outer ring of security, suggests that there were people killed and it was a pretty violent protest there -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, as we look at the videotape too, it looks far from peaceful. Tom, do you think this is just about the cartoons, or other frustrations finally coming to a boiling point? This has just been an outlet for all of it?

COGHLAN: Well, there are certainly frustrations in Afghanistan amongst the ordinary people here. I think you could say that the majority view in Afghanistan, as far as these specific cartoons goes, was expressed by the President Hamid Karzai yesterday, and actually on CNN, where he said people are generally upset. They regard those cartoons that appeared in Danish newspapers as ignorant and generally Islamophobic. To see the religion, the Islamic religion, as synonymous with terrorism. But I think the majority of Afghans would not be in the business of smashing up the Danish embassy or any other embassy, though they are upset, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Tom Coghlan, journalist there based in Kabul, Afghanistan. We'll continue to check in with you and follow those protests. Thank you.

Racial segregation for safety's sake in a California jail. Officials hope keeping African-American and Latino inmates far apart will reduce the racial tensions that led to riots this weekend near Los Angeles. One inmate was killed, dozens were hurt. Black and Hispanic inmates also fought in a nearby lock-up. Now most of L.A. County's jails are on lockdown.

He's one of the best-known names in the fashion. Will Oscar De La Renta's designs look good on you? Well, maybe if you could afford them. LIVE FROM gets some insider tips right after this.

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PHILLIPS: He was a man with a plan, became the best known Latin American designer in the world. He's exceeded now Oscar de la Renta. Sibila Vargas at Fashion Week in New York. Sibila, tell us about this man.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's just wonderful. In fact a lot of his models were walking down this cat walk. We're here at the main tent and this is where all the action goes down. But Oscar is from the Dominican Republic. And he spoke to me about how his Latin roots influenced his style.

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OSCAR DE LA RENTA, DESIGNER: My sense of exuberance in clothes comes from my roots, from where I come from. I think we live in a really wonderful country, and, you know, I try to go to (INAUDIBLE) as often as a I can. And for me has been almost a great sense of security up to a certain point to know where I come from, what I'm all about, and always feeling extremely proud of being a Dominican. I remember when I started my career and people will ask me think of my name, de la Renta, they thought it was Italian. They thought I was Spanish. When they heard the name de la Renta, and I said, "I come from the Dominican Republic," I saw their faces will fall down, because its not tradition for fashion, the Dominican Republican, why a Dominican designer? And I said, "I'm going to turn a negative into a positive. I want to be the very first Latin American designer known worldwide."

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VARGAS: And he certainly is known worldwide. I mean, this man has been doing this for about four decades now, maybe even a little longer than that. Everybody loves him. I mean, I've been looking at his styles for many, many years now. A lot of celebrities also wear it.

But he told me about this year specifically, about this fall. He said it's about the strong, confident woman. So we're going to see a lot of boldness and Carolina Herrera, I also got to speak to her earlier today, I don't know if you saw that Kyra, but she said the same thing. So expect a boldness. Last year it was more like frilly fashions. But this year its about bold women, a lot of women presidents out there, a lot of dignitaries. So you're going to be seeing a lot of that influence this year. Back to you.

PHILLIPS: All right, Sibila Vargas. Looking for more influence, that's for sure. We'll see you coming up again in the next hour. Thank you.

Once again, we want to take you not far from the CNN Center to Auburn Avenue, downtown Atlanta, Georgia, where we're all remembering Coretta Scott King. Today and tomorrow we'll be having special coverage of the funeral service that will be taking place, but right now the Reverend James Forbes (ph) speaking at Horizon Sanctuary, the main church across the street from Ebenezer Church. Ebenezer is where Martin Luther King Jr. used to preach with his father, and that's where you see Coretta Scott King lying in honor right now as well- wishers come by to pay their last respects.

We are expecting the great Gladys Knight to start singing across the street. We are going to bring that to you live as soon as she starts.

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