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Muslim Fury; Fashion Week

Aired February 08, 2006 - 13:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Stop the violence. That's the caption from President Bush today as protests mushroom over cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. Demonstrators marched in Kabul, Afghanistan. There was much more violent protest to the south. Five people died when hundreds of rioters tried to storm a police station and get into a U.S. base. Three-thousand protesters took to the streets in Basra, Iraq. They marched near the British embassy, stomping on, then burning the Danish flag. The cartoons first appeared in the Danish newspaper.
A similar in Karachi, Pakistan. Danish, Israeli and American flags went up in flames during a rally. Demonstrators shouted death to Denmark and death to America. Hundreds of people gathered to vent their anger in the capital of Bangladesh. They're demanding an apology to all Muslims.

Freedom of the press, respect for religion, mutually exclusive concepts? Not to President Bush. He and Jordan's King Abdullah met this morning at the White House with the Muslim cartoon protest topping the agenda. Both gave the protesters, the politicians and the press an earful.

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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: We reject violence as a way to express discontent with what may be printed in the free press. I call upon the governments around the world to stop the violence, to be respectful, to protect property, protect the lives of innocent diplomats who are serving their countries overseas.

KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: Anything that vilifies the Prophet Mohammed (INAUDIBLE) or attacks Muslim sensibilities, I believe, needs to be condemned. But at the same time, those that want to protest should do it thoughtfully, articulately, express their views peacefully.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The U.S. and other nations are looking into what, if any, role extremist groups might have played in these protests.

All this over cartoons. No one denies the depictions of Mohammed are provocative, outrageous, even blasphemous. But many also believe a host of deeper issues are fueling these protests.

CNN's Tom Foreman investigates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even in a region that produces much of the world's oil, millions of Muslims are barely connected to the global economy. They live on little money with few political rights. And that, analysts say, fuels their reaction to insults from the outside.

IMAM AJMAL MASROOR, ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF Britain: They are now allowed to freely express their views. And any opportunity they get, they jump on the bandwagon. So it's a whole mishmash of various political as well as social issues that all come to a head with this cartoon saga.

FOREMAN: Certainly al Qaeda has pushed hard for such a clash of civilizations, fanning resentment among poor Muslims into religious, cultural and militant zeal. Although Osama bin Laden and many of his lieutenants came from wealthy families, they have recruited among the poor and encouraged religious schools in poor areas to teach an intolerant brand of Islam.

That worries moderate Muslim who are offended by the cartoons but who also condemn the violence that has followed.

AHMED YOUNIS, MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL: The people that we see on TV are less than one percent of the Muslim masses.

FOREMAN: Still, that percentage, however small, is making a big noise now, just as Osama bin Laden has openly hoped it would.

(on camera): Now, some people say that poverty is simply a seabed in which a lot of bad things can happen. The poverty itself is not directly to blame. But no matter how you slice this, this is about a lot more than cartoons. It is about a lot of disaffected people, a lot of angry people who, clearly, are focusing around this issue and trying to make some things change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, the Danish newspaper's cultural editor is standing by his decision to publish the cartoons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLEMMING ROSE, CULTURE EDITOR, "JYLLANDS-POSTEN": I do not regret it, and I think it is like asking a raped victim if she regrets wearing a short skirt at a discotheque Friday night. In the sense that in our culture, if you're wearing a short skirt that does not necessarily mean that you invite everybody to have sex with you.

As is the case with these cartoons, if you make a cartoon make fun of religion, make fun of religious figures, that does not imply that you humiliate, or denigrate or marginalize a religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, amid all the rage and violence, you may not know how the protest came to be. Did you know, for instance, the cartoons were first published months ago. So why the anger now?

My next guest is a Muslim who says the situation has gotten uglier than it ever needed to be.

Irshad Mangi is the author of "The Trouble With Islam Today."

Nice to have you, Irshad.

IRSHAD MANJI, AUTHOR: Thanks for having me, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So you feel there's a story behind the story of the cartoons.

MANJI: Indeed there is, Kyra.

You know, a lot of people, as you pointed out, assume that these cartoons appeared overnight, or at least last week. The case is quite different. They appeared way back in September of 2005, and -- in Denmark. And Muslims in Denmark at the time did complain, and some of them resorted to peaceful protests in the streets. And a couple of these illustrators of these cartoons at the time reported, you know, vague threats on their lives.

So serious stuff. But nothing like the wildfire that we are seeing today.

So the question becomes, what happened between then and now to, you know, spark off this wildfire? Well, what happened is not just the cartoons; what happened is that a group of Danish imams, or Muslim political leaders , took these cartoons, went to the Middle East, and very strategically and deliberately disseminated them.

In fact, there's informed speculation that they may have even fabricated a couple of their own depictions of the prophet. One, for example, showing the prophet with a pig snout, which is insulting enough. And that much more so when you realize that in Islam pigs are considered dirty and forbidden to eat.

The point is, these imams try to do through political manipulation what they couldn't achieve through the democratic exercise of their freedoms in Denmark, namely, sow the seeds of unrest. And needless to say, they got what they wanted.

PHILLIPS: So why would these imams want to do this? Why would they want to -- if this is true, obviously, I wish I could sit down and interview these Danish imams.

MANJI: Of course.

PHILLIPS: I mean, from interviews that you've done and conversations you've had, why would they want to do it this way? Because, I mean, I know plenty of imams that would never want to incite violence or create something like this. And obviously, you know, there is more, like you say, to just the cartoons. There still is a lot of anger and resentment that is fueling all of this. There's more to just the cartoons. But why, why would they want to do this? MANJI: Right. Well, there's a benign answer and more malignant answer, Kyra. The benign answer is that because they couldn't get the newspaper to be punished or to be shut down or the journalist to apologize at the time, by protesting these cartoons, they figured that they could bring worldwide Muslim pressure to bear to achieve these results.

But what's interesting is that the journalists are standing by what they did. And the prime minister of Denmark has pointed out that in a free and democratic society, you know, the press operates independent of government. So the government doesn't have the power to punish the newspaper.

The more malignant answer is related directly to the story that you just ran, that there is deep-seeded resentment and anger against the West. And what these imams possibly wanted to do was lift the lid on that anger -- anger, of course, over the Iraq war, over the invasion of Afghanistan, the stories of torture at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. And so in many ways, we should imagine the Muslim world right now as a large grassy field where the grass is dry. And all it takes is for a match, one match...

PHILLIPS: One little controversy to go. It's like a domino effect.

MANJI: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Now, Irshad, let me ask you, because when this first came out, I had interviewed a number of different people on this. And a number of people said, well, it's against Islam. You don't ever depict the Prophet Muhammed in any blasphemous way. You aren't even supposed to be able to see a picture.

MANJI: Right.

PHILLIPS: However, I asked you this, I called another imam that I call a number of times about questions with regard to the Koran. Both of you have said that's a myth. Nothing in the -- there's nothing in the Koran that says you cannot have a picture of Prophet Muhammed.

MANJI: That's exactly right, Kyra. It's become a norm. It's become a tradition. But there is no teaching in the Koran that says this is prohibited. And as a matter of fact, in one of Dublin's most prestigious libraries, as you and I speak right now, there is a large collection of depictions of the Prophet Muhammed from the 15th century in what was then Persia, what is now Iran.

As a matter of fact, I can argue in defense of these cartoons from an Islamic perspective by pointing out that the Koran itself tells us there will always be non-believers and that it's up to Gods, not Muslims, to deal with them. And moreover, the Koran tells us that there is -- and I quote now -- no compulsion in religion. Well, that means that nobody should be forced to treat Islamic norms as sacred. And these are only norms, these are not sacred teachings. PHILLIPS: Irshad, final thought. You wrote in a column that appeared in "The Wall Street Journal": "Muslims have little integrity demanding respect for our faith if we don't show it for others, when we have demonstrated against Saudi Arabia's policy to prevent Christians and Jews from stepping on the soil of mecca. They may come for business trips, but nothing more. As long as Rome welcomes non- Christians and Jerusalem embraces non-Jews, we Muslims have more to protest than cartoons."

MANJI: Right, that's exactly right. And let's also remember that, you know, viciously anti-semitic programming comes out of the Arab world routinely. When have we Muslims poured into the streets to protest that kind of mockery of Judaism? So we really need to kind of confront our own double standards here, and not just blame the West for its double standards.

PHILLIPS: Also interesting. I was reading that Muslims did protest Mel Gibson's movie because they didn't like the way Christ was depicted. We didn't make much of that, obviously, in the news, but that did happen. I thought that was interesting. Irshad...

MANJI: You know, Kyra, I look forward to the day when we also protest the mockery of Jews.

PHILLIPS: Irshad Manji, thanks for your time.

MANJI: Take good care.

PHILLIPS: Coming up on LIVE FROM, cutting remarks. But wait, that's a good thing. We're talking style. The latest trends at Fashion Week. Get ready to clean out your closets. LIVE FROM's back in a moment.

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PHILLIPS: Now to a world where the runways have no jets, where model behavior isn't necessarily a good thing and where style is the substance. We're talking about Fashion Week. It's going on right now in New York City.

Our Sibila Vargas is all over it. Hi, Sibila.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, I'm backstage here at Carmen Marc Valvo and I have to tell you, I'm a little excited about this one today. Because I hear about him all the time on the red carpet, celebrities really seem to love him. In fact, I recently ran into Angela Bassett at the SAG Awards and she told me why she loves this designer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VARGAS (on camera): What made you decide to go with Carmen Marc Valvo and why do you like him?

ANGELA BASSETT, ACTRESS: Oh, it's almost spring and I just love how feminine his designs and cuts are. Always feel beautiful in them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VARGAS: And I'm joined now by fashion editor Kate Betts. Thank you so much for joining us. Everybody just loves him. Celebrities just eat him up. What is it about Carmen Marc Valvo? What is his design, what defines him?

KATE BETTS, TIME STYLE & DESIGN: Well, I think he's very elegant and very sophisticated. It's not fashion that wears you. You can kind of wear the dress and be yourself. And he also really pays attention to fit. I mean, these are clothes that hold you in in all the right places and they're elegant and they're fashion-forward. So it's kind of a great combination of all those things. They're really -- women can really wear them and feel good.

VARGAS: Exactly. I mean, I see a lot of women that are curvaceous, I mean, smaller women, thinner women, all different types of sizes. So he seems to kind of be in touch with that.

BETTS: Yes, he pays attention to it. In fact, his dress -- there's one dress that's like a best-selling dress for him called the shutter pleat dress that has the horizontal pleats. And it's beautifully crafted inside because it really is a strapless dress, it really holds you in. You really feel good, it's very glamorous, kind of in the old Hollywood style. So I think it's perfect for the red carpet.

VARGAS: A lot of celebrities wear him, but can the average woman wear him? I mean, is it expensive?

BETTS: These -- you know, he has two collections. One is couture and that's like in the upper $3,000 to $4,000 range, which is really expensive. Then he has a less expensive line, the Carmen Marc Valvo Collection, where he has dresses between, like, $300 and $400, $500 that are of the same kind of trends and fabrics, but they're a little more affordable. So it's actually very -- you know, he reaches a very wide audience that way.

VARGAS: Obviously, there's a lot of designers that are going to be showing here at Bryant Park. What is the expectation of Carmen Marc Valvo. Where does he stand?

BETTS: I think people look for glamour, glamour, glamour, glamour. And it's -- you know, not just the red carpet. Women who go out at night who want to feel glamorous, even if they're not wearing a full-length gown, a beautiful cocktail dress, a gorgeous suit. You know, I've seen some furs here today. I mean, he -- it's very glamorous, but it's very wearable.

VARGAS: And a lot of designers are focusing on glamour this year. And also -- you were talking about fur -- there's a lot of fur trimming. Have you seen other trends? BETTS: We've seen a lot of Michael Kors this morning, a lot of very American style, kind of almost preppie. You got that feeling a little bit at Marc Jacobs with the grunge thing. There's a whole sort of collegiate feeling, a little more casual than the glamour we've been talking about.

And then there's also this whole sort of rocker chick look with the very skinny pants and, like, shiny brocades. And I think that's going to be a whole new thing for evening.

VARGAS: It also seems like anything goes now. I mean, when you go from designer to designer you see there's a wide variety.

BETTS: Yes, everybody has their own style obviously. And mostly designers have learned the hard way that they do best when they stick to what they do best, their own style. So ...

VARGAS: This fall, what's the accessory that we just cannot do without?

BETTS: I think it's the big, oversized handbag that we saw at Michael Kors this morning, which were gorgeous with the fringe and the studding and the suede and the big hobo strap.

VARGAS: All right. Well, we'll be looking forward to that. And, Kyra, I hope you have your bag.

PHILLIPS: I'm waiting for you to bring back all kinds of great things, Sibila. Sibila Vargas, thanks.

Well, nobody ever got rich betting against Wayne Gretzky, but all bets are off now that Operation Slapshot has sidelined one of Gretzky the Great's assistants and may even implicate his wife. The smart money's on LIVE FROM, right after this.

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PHILLIPS: Hockey by day, bookie by night. The NHL is rocked by charges that one of its coaches helped run a nationwide sports gambling ring. New Jersey State Police say the Phoenix Coyotes' assistant coach, Rick Tocchet, took bets from a half dozen hockey players.

Operation Slapshot tracked more than 1,000 bets on sports other than hockey. Tocchet's boss, Coyotes' head coach and part owner Wayne Gretzky, stands by his friend and assistant for now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE GRETZKY, PHOENIX COYOTES COACH: Obviously, we feel bad. You know, it's a situation that, you know, obviously concerns the organization at this point. So other than that, hopefully things work out and, you know, I don't know a lot of the details, but hopefully things will work out.

QUESTION: You fully stand by him? GRETZKY: Yes, you know, right now, I mean, everyone in the world is innocent until proven guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Also implicated in placing bets, Gretzky's wife, actress Janet Jones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: We've heard that your wife may also be involved. Is that ...

GRETZKY: Oh, really? I don't know. I mean, that -- you'd have to ask her that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Police allege Tocchet ran the gambling ring with a New Jersey state trooper. The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. The next hour of LIVE FROM straight ahead.

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