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Jake Goldenflame Interview; Saddam Hussein Testified Officially Today For First Time In His Trial; Jennifer Smith Stepanek Discusses Her Son's Book About Peace; Eliot Spitzer Files Lawsuit Against H&R Block

Aired March 15, 2006 - 15:28   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's a parent's worst nightmare. Whether it's Joseph Smith, a man who was not registered as a sex offender, or a known convicted child molester, nobody wants someone like that moving in nearby. And more than a dozen states are setting up zones where sex offenders can't live.
Iowa is one of them. But critics say those laws are having unforeseen and undesirable effects.

My next guest knows about this subject all too well. Jake Goldenflame spent five years in prison for child molestation. After therapy and counseling, he is now in his 15th year of recovery. He dedicates his time to helping victims heal and sexual predators not to offend again.

And, Jake, before we talk about what's happening in Iowa, you have been watching the sentencing unfold. What's your reaction?

JAKE GOLDENFLAME, REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER: I just keep thinking of that little girl, and how horrible it must have been for her to have been accosted in that way by this large, menacing-looking man.

The end of her life must have been tragic beyond words. And my heart goes out to her and her family. It's just tragic. It's tragic, what happened to her.

PHILLIPS: Well, and it was grueling to sit there and listen to everything that this man did to this little girl.

And I'm just going to come straight out and ask you. Look...

GOLDENFLAME: Yes.

PHILLIPS: ... you spent time in prison for molestation.

I mean...

GOLDENFLAME: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Put me in the mind-set of why somebody would do these types of things to someone. He's four times older than she was, twice her size.

GOLDENFLAME: Yes. Yes. PHILLIPS: Completely defenseless.

GOLDENFLAME: When we allow a compulsion that arises in us to expand and take us over, at the same time as we do so, we shut off the reasoning faculty, and we just surrender ourselves to lust.

And that lust can become so powerful a driving force that we don't even think of the consequences. And, then, afterwards, all of a sudden, it's: Oh, my God. Look what I have just done. This is a young child. I'm going to get caught.

And, in that kind of desperation, unfortunately, people will do the kinds of things that this man obviously did to this little child. He'll try and kill to keep from being captured.

PHILLIPS: And obviously this is somebody who didn't want to change, wasn't making efforts to change.

GOLDENFLAME: No.

PHILLIPS: He was a drug user, according to the judge there. He admitted to that. Your story's quite different. You decided OK, I have to do everything possible to fight this urge. And you've even told me you've never lost the urge, but it takes a hell of a lot of discipline to put yourself in situations -- or take yourself out of situations to where you won't do it again.

GOLDENFLAME: Yes, but you know, I have to tell you that quite fortunately at the heart of my recovery, there's a spiritual affiliation. It's a bond and I lean on that heavily and that's what sustains me.

PHILLIPS: That's pretty amazing. Fifteen years, Jake. All right. Let's talk about now...

GOLDENFLAME: Iowa.

PHILLIPS: A side bar. Let's talk about Iowa. You got it. Six thousand sex offenders on the registered list there. Four hundred of them -- nobody knows where they are.

GOLDENFLAME: Gone.

PHILLIPS: Now there's this new law.

GOLDENFLAME: Yes.

PHILLIPS: OK? Let's talk about this new law, and tell -- and describe it and tell me what you think about it.

GOLDENFLAME: OK. You've got a law that basically says if you're a registered sex offender in Iowa, you cannot live within 2,000 feet of a school where children would be available. And it sounds great on the surface. But if you take a map of any large city, such as Des Moines and you plot the schools and draw these circles of 2,000 feet around them, there's no place left in the city for the guys to live, so they're cast into the wilderness.

Now the first thing that happens is rural police are not thrilled by this. They say don't dump your garbage on us. We haven't got the manpower for it. Secondly, when these guys lose their homes and leave the cities, unfortunately a lot of them just disappear. They either stop registering or they can't be found. And legally, if you don't have a residence, you can declare yourself homeless, which you aren't required to give an address. So nobody really knows where you are.

And the choice that I think we have to look at is this. As unpleasant as it obviously could be to have a registered sex offender like myself living down the street from you, would you rather have that so you know where I am and you know who I am, or would you rather not know where I am, even if I wind up encamped in the alleyway right behind your home at nigh? Which is going to happen with some of these guys.

PHILLIPS: Well, and that's what's happening in Iowa. As we look at this map -- this is from "The New York Times", they put this together. This is Dubuque. And it's showing how this law is affecting the area. I mean, if you are a sex offender, you've got no place to go in Dubuque. And so there are people in Illinois and other areas saying look, they're coming over here in our area. We don't want them.

GOLDENFLAME: Yes. No, absolutely not. What this law does, whether it -- although it doesn't mean to do it. So the effect of this law is to repeal Megan's Law. You no longer nowhere anybody is. And as you know, I've supported Megan's Law since it went on the books. I still think it's the best way to go for you to know where people like me live.

Even if it's unpleasant to find them down the street from you, it's better than not knowing where we are than are and fearing at night that we could be, like I said, maybe in your alley. It's not a good law. The guys that are under it are, in some cases, getting hostile. And they're stating -- they've stated to the media that it makes them want to reoffend. Their anger comes up. They're not staying in recovery.

I think that this law, if left in force, could cause so many problems that we might have additional crimes. And for that reason, the prosecutors themselves in Iowa, through their Iowa County Attorney's Association, are calling for the repeal of this law.

But the politicians are afraid to repeal it because they don't want to look soft on the sex offenders. They're hoping that the court would give this law the coup de grace that they want it to get. And on May 22nd, that may happen. In a sister state, in Ohio, the same kind of law is being challenged in the federal courts.

PHILLIPS: So what's your answer, Jake? What's your -- would it be live anywhere you want, but you have to register and lifetime parole? Somebody needs to constantly be checking up on you?

GOLDENFLAME: Yes. I go for both of those. And to protect the kids at school, I think we should also have a felony trespass law on schools that says if you're a registered sex offender and you set foot on the school grounds, that's a felony. You go to prison.

PHILLIPS: Jake Goldenflame. It's always interesting to talk to you, Jake. I sure appreciate your time.

GOLDENFLAME: Thank you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Talking about Jake -- my pleasure. Talking about what's happening there in Iowa with this law that's causing a lot of controversy about sex offenders being forced out of the area. And is it making the problem worse or better? That's what's up for debate.

And this, of course, is coming off the sentencing that you just heard here on CNN. We've been following it for the past two hours. And that is Joseph Smith, the man convicted of abducting, raping and killing 11-year-old Carlie Brucia. He has been sentenced to death.

The news keep coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE ANDREW OWENS, SARASOTA COUNTY, FLORIDA: Joseph Smith. Based upon your actions, you have forfeited your life to live freely among us in society, and pursuant to the laws of Florida, have forfeited your right to live. Accordingly, it is hereby ordered and adjudged that for the murder of Carlie Jane Brucia, you are hereby sentenced to death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, talk about hostile witnesses. Proclaiming he's still the president of Iraq and calling on Iraqis to fight the occupiers, Saddam Hussein testified officially today for the first time in his crimes against humanity trial in Baghdad. He also got a reality check.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAOUF ABDEL RAHMAN, CHIEF JUDGE (through translator): Listen. Here, you are facing criminal charges. This role has ended. Your role has ended. You are a defendant in a criminal case.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FMR. PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): I don't want any tension.

RAHMAN (through translator): This is a courtroom. This is a criminal court. We are not interested in politics.

HUSSEIN (through translator): You asked the question. If it wasn't for politics, neither you or I would be here today.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Hussein's testimony made the judge so mad, he kicked the news media out of the courtroom. He eventually let them -- or us -- back in, but then adjourned the trial until April 5th.

More U.S. boots on the ground, hundreds of them, as Iraq's new parliament prepares to meet a Shiite holiday. As many as 700 troops from the First Armored Division are heading into Iraq from Kuwait, where they've been on standby as a back-up force. You probably know sectarian violence has flared across Iraq, but a top U.S. commander tells a House panel it's not that bad yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, CMDR., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I believe that we are not only the verge of civil war. I believe that the sectarian issues are controllable. I believe that the government of national unity will emerge, and I believe that the Iraqi security forces will continue to improve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The House is considering an emergency spending bill that includes more than $60 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A young life gone, but a spirit not forgotten. Coming up, the final words of poet and peace activist Mattie Stepanek. Mattie's mother joins me with some personal reflections. LIVE FROM is back after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, Mattie J.P. Stepanek was a little boy with big ideas. He suffered from a rare disease that put him in a wheelchair and eventually took his life.

But while he lived, he wrote several books of poetry, heart songs celebrating all life. Almost two years after Mattie died, a new book is out, "Just Peace: A Message of Hope." It features correspondence between Mattie and someone who shared his hopes, former President Jimmy Carter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTIE STEPANEK, "JUST PEACE," AUTHOR: One day I went into the room of my mother, Ms. Lillian Carter. She was lying down on her bed in her room. I propped my feet up on her bed, and I said, Ms. Lillian, dear mommy, I want to run for president of the United States of America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did she say?

STEPANEK: She looked at me for a long time. And then finally she said, Jimmy, get your feet off my bed.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: And mom's repeating that even before we heard it. Mattie's mom Jennifer Smith Stepanek, along with Mattie's service dog, Mica (ph), here with us today to talk about this new book and talk about Mattie. What a cutie pie. Oh.

JENNIFER SMITH STEPANEK, MATTIE STEPANEK'S MOTHER: Oh he loves doing that. That was so exciting.

PHILLIPS: I mean, how young was he when you realized oh, my gosh, my child has a gift?

J. STEPANEK: He was actually very, very young. When he was an infant he was very ill. And I was told to prepare myself for the worst that he may never walk, talk or think like a normal child. I became aware when he was an infant, a toddler that there was something in his eyes that he was observing things.

And when he was reading things at age three, and I had not taught him to read. I had done speech therapy with him with phonics. I knew then that he was gifted.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Well, let's talk about this relationship with his friend that he calls Jimmy, of course, the former President Jimmy Carter. How did this relationship begin?

J. STEPANEK: The relationship began when Mattie really entered the dying process. He had always had a life-threatening condition. But when he transitioned and we knew he was going to die within months or years, it was one of his three dying wishes that children are often offered by different organizations.

One of Mattie's wishes was to talk peace with Jimmy Carter. Because he wanted to be a peacemaker himself. And he had learned about Jimmy Carter when he was about 7 years old and had to do a report about something that mattered. And peace mattered to him. And he learned about peace through Jimmy Carter.

PHILLIPS: So I want to read -- the book has all of these beautiful e-mail exchanges between Mattie and Jimmy Carter. This one -- and of course we took pieces of these e-mails because they are long, beautiful letters to each other.

Mattie said, "Dear Jimmy, I'm upset knowing that I'll probably die while I'm a kid or a teenager. I get upset knowing that I get scared about all of these things. I still know I believe in peace. But I hurt inside. Then someone will ask me to talk about peace, and I believe in my words. But sometimes I wish I could feel them all the same not just most of the time."

"Then I feel guilty for not feeling peaceful inside when I tell people how important it is. Am I still a peacemaker? Can I learn to be peaceful all the time? Love, Mattie."

And then Jimmy Carter writes back, "Mattie, all of us have deep inner problems. During my life there have been many times when I feel frustrated and doubted that I could fulfill a worthy destiny. Even Jesus had these feelings of unworthiness and abandonment. It may be that these are the ways to build inner strength so that when real tests come along we will be able to meet them and prevail."

"You've been given a brilliant mind and now a worldwide forum within which you can express your wisdom and insight to millions of people. One real test will be to retain two things, humility and truthfulness. With love, Jimmy Carter."

Well, he definitely retained those two things, didn't he?

STEPANEK: Yes, he did. And I think that makes very clear. A lot of people have asked me how could Mattie always be so happy, so optimistic? Mattie was not always happy. He was not always optimistic. But he always came to find some kind of hope. But Mattie had a lot of personal challenges at many levels.

And it's not easy to be a child knowing that you are going to die, a child who lives, you know, financially poor, watching the world have so much violence. But in spite of those struggles, he was still able to come back to peace because it was something that mattered to him.

PHILLIPS: Why did it matter to him so much? He was a young boy with a wonderful mother, and it seemed like he had such a peaceful life in so many ways, but he was affected by so much that was going on around him.

J. STEPANEK: Right. He lived an intense life. I think that from an early age -- because Mattie knew his brother died. He watched me go from walking to being in a wheelchair. He was aware of his own health declining.

I think that Mattie valued the gift of life more than -- you know, a lot of people take it for granted. And I don't say that lightly. I just mean we wake up we assume we are going to through the day. We get frustrated over little things. And we have a right to be frustrated.

PHILLIPS: That's true.

J. STEPANEK: I think Mattie realized something bigger and just how sacred life was in each moment. So even though he faced so many challenges, he wanted to do something good with the moments that he had.

And Mattie had this whole concept of heart songs. And he said a heart song is your gift. And it's whatever you need or desire most that's what you give to others. And what he needed and desired most was happiness and love and hope and peace. So he spent his entire life giving that to other people.

PHILLIPS: Well, and he really paid attention to the news. He wrote another e-mail to Jimmy Carter. And it was about the war in Iraq. Actually I take that back, Jimmy wrote this to Mattie. This is why I found this interesting because the former President actually asked him for advice. And I thought this was great. "To Mattie, I'm really grieved today at the inevitable deaths of many innocent Iraqis and at least a small number of our superb American troops. I really need your ideas about what might be done. One or more of your poems would certainly be helpful. There have been a lot discouraging times in my life, as well as yours, but we can prevail with faith and determination. With love, Jimmy."

And then your son wrote back, "Dear Jimmy, I'm hurting about the war just like you. I cried last night when I saw the attack on Iraq. I'm very sad about it all. I'm also glad, though, that I'll try to help the situation with our book about peace. I think perhaps it should be called 'Just Peace' since the word just has many denotations and connotations.

"It seems that for as far back as history has been recorded, people have sought peace. But it also seems that people have given into violence in the name of eventual peace. I want to look at patterns and see if we can break the cycle or at least make the circle of gentle peace seekers and peacemakers larger and stronger. Love, Mattie."

I just am amazed. I feel like I'm reading, you know, e-mails from a Ph.D., 30-something educator. And this was your child having these conversations.

J. STEPANEK: Yes, and I had not read all of those e-mails prior to his death. President Carter sent me the collection of e-mails that he had saved. Mattie shared with me a lot of his written work, but not everything, particularly the older that he got. He didn't run to me and say look what I did, you know, as he got older.

But Mattie was a very thoughtful person. He thought carefully about his opinion on things. And he was very excited that he and President Carter could work together on a book that might change things, because in the book he addresses that exact situation, that conflict has always existed and it will always exist. Violence has changed. And that's why we really need to make peace something that matters and begin planning peace.

PHILLIPS: Why do you think that Jimmy Carter asked your son for advice? Has he ever said to you, boy, I've met with so many people, so many world leaders, but it was this about your son? Like, what was it that he said that just made it click that he could learn?

J. STEPANEK: I think it was a growing relationship between the two of them. When Jimmy Carter first called the intensive care unit to talk peace with this dying child, I believe that his expectation was to talk to a dying child about being a dying child. And instead he talked to this 10-year-old who was passionate about peace -- sincerely passionate.

So he started calling him on a regular basis. And then the surprise meeting on "Good Morning America," and President Carter has said repeatedly that the depths of Mattie's passion and his insights and integrating personal conflict with world conflict has changed his life and his views more than any other person he has ever met in his entire life.

PHILLIPS: The book is called "Just Peace: A Message of Hope," written with Jimmy Carter and your son. And we're actually going to go to break. But if you don't mind, I'm just going to ask you to read this poem that your son wrote, "Eternal Echoes." I just thought it was beautiful. If you don't mind, and we'll just let you take us to break.

J. STEPANEK: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

J. STEPANEK: "Eternal echoes. Our life is an echo of our spirit today, of our essence, as it is. Caught between our yesterday and our tomorrow, it is the resounding reality of who we are as a result of where we have been, and where we will be for eternity."

PHILLIPS: Jennifer Stepanek, thank you.

J. STEPANEK: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, we're moments away from the closing bell on Wall Street. Ali Velshi standing by to crunch the numbers. But first, folks at H&R Block face a little bit of an extra headache this tax season. I asked them ...

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: What's the wait?

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Are you ready? Are you finished?

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: I -- you know, I don't want to trigger any kind of investigation by chatting with you too much about this, Kyra, but I'm not always on top of these things as quickly as I should be. Hopefully I'll be able to make the deadline this year. Anybody from the IRS who's listening to this, pay to no attention to me.

However they've been paying some attention to H&R Block in the past, and this morning, in fact, New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer launched a lawsuits against H&R Block for $250 million.

Here's how it goes. It says that in helping some people prepare their tax returns, they encouraged them to open this particular kind of IRA account. And it was a kind of a account that gave very little interest, and as a result of that, the fees on that account ended up costing these people more -- 85 percent of the hundreds of thousands of people who opened these accounts ended up losing money in the end.

Attorney General Eliot Spitzer wants them to cough up $250 million. H&R Block says, don't blame us, people actually did better as a result of those accounts. So we're going to be tracking that story, Kyra.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

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