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New Cardinals; Quest for Meaning

Aired March 24, 2006 - 13:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Lost and found more than six decades later, and today a final tribute. When his remains were discovered last October high in the Sierra Nevada, no one knew who this frozen Army airman was. Well, through DNA testing he was finally identified as Leo Mustonen. Just 22 years old, his plane crashed on a training mission in 1942. He's being buried next hour near his hometown of Brainerd, Minnesota. Remembered by old friend, the military Honor Guard and relatives who no longer have to wonder whatever happened to him.
Fifteen men are now members of a most exclusive group, one that advises the pope and one day will pick his successor. Today's ceremony was a first for Pope Benedict XVI.

Our faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher joins me here in Atlanta to fill us in.

You've actually been to this ceremony in the past, and it's pretty amazing, isn't it?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH & VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, I would say short of a conclave, this is sort of the event at the Vatican, because it's the one time when all the cardinals from around the world come, and they have meetings and talk to the pope and the new ones get installed.

PHILLIPS: Of course, we don't have to worry about whether it's black smoke or white smoke, like we did last time.

GALLAGHER: Oh yes, it's infinitely easier from a reporting point of view, absolutely.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about some of the interesting cardinals. First, William, is it, Levada?

GALLAGHER: Levada.

PHILLIPS: Levada. OK, he was formally archbishop of San Francisco. He is the top-ranking American at the Vatican, because, of course, he took the job of Cardinal Ratzinger. Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict, and he appointed William Levada, now Cardinal Levada, to take his place at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which, you know, is the Vatican office, which enforces the doctrine of the Catholic faith.

So this man is now the top-ranking American Vatican cardinal. And in fact, was the one that gave the address today at the Vatican to the pope, kind of representing the rest of the newly chosen cardinals.

PHILLIPS: I have a sort of soft spot for him because of his Irish heritage.

GALLAGHER: Irish and Portuguese, yes, born in Long Beach.

PHILLIPS: That's great.

GALLAGHER: And did a lot when he was archbishop of San Francisco. He was also in Portland, Oregon.

PHILLIPS: Well, he was very active, too, in regard to issues regarding gays, right, and sexual abuse?

GALLAGHER: Yes. And, I mean, You know, it's very interesting the choice by Pope Benedict to put him in that position, and there's been a lot of speculation as to why, and certainly part of it has to be in the way that he has been able to sort of walk a fine line with some of the more difficult issues in the Catholic Church.

PHILLIPS: So, do you -- can you say you feel he will, in some way, be more progressive on this? Will he take issues differently from his predecessor?

GALLAGHER: I think no, is the short answer, because he has worked under Cardinal Ratzinger at the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and he is somebody who knows how to uphold the doctrine of the church. I don't think Pope Benedict would have appointed him otherwise. So while he may be able to, you know, be able to deal with lots of different people. He still maintains his line. I mean, I think that's the bottom line.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. What about Archbishop Sean O'Malley of Boston?

GALLAGHER: Well, of course, we all remember him, because he was brought in after Cardinal Law resigned.

PHILLIPS: Clean up the sex abuse scandal.

GALLAGHER: The sex abuse scandal.

And so, again, another choice of somebody who was in a difficult situation and had to try and balance what was going on at a difficult time during the Catholic Church. So a recognition of him. Boston is traditionally a city in which has a cardinal at its head, but he was looked over in the 2003 consistory (ph) by Pope John Paul II, so this is his hanks and his honor, in a way, to be made a cardinal.

PHILLIPS: Recently we talked about a number of issues out of Boston, if I'm remembering correctly, about gay adoption and some other issues. Could the archbishop be a little more progressive in these areas, or no? Is he going to take more of...

GALLAGHER: Well, again, I think you would have to accept that all of these men are people who essentially agree with the bottom line of Pope Benedict, of John Paul II, of the Catholic Church..

PHILLIPS: No one is going to come in there and be a rebel?

GALLAGHER: Not in that sense. But there are plenty of other ways to be relevant. And I think that certainly -- look at Cardinal O'Malley. I mean, he's a Franciscan priest. He wears the robes. He wears sandals. He's taken a vow of poverty. I mean, he's a very sort of different type of priest than we're used to seeing. So again, I think that he will and the people of Boston have sort of welcomed him, and Pope Benedict is recognizing his work there.

PHILLIPS: And of course we focused on the two Americans. We want to give you a chance, though, to tease your special coming up next week.

GALLAGHER: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Very special special.

GALLAGHER: Well, you know, we're already at the first anniversary of the death of John Paul II.

PHILLIPS: It's amazing how time flies.

GALLAGHER: Isn't it?

PHILLIPS: Yes, it's incredible.

GALLAGHER: And it will be next Saturday. It's the actual day he died. He died on April 1st. Next Saturday will be April 2nd. And it's a two-hour look inside the papal apartments, inside the hospital where he was. We talked to the doctors. We went back and talked to all the people who were at his bedside in those last hours. It's really the final days. And there's some surprising things that they tell us. It was very fascinating for me as a journalist to cover it, to go back and talk to them, and say, what really happened? What did he really say at the end? How did it all happen?

And then of course the conclave. And we got to talk to lots of the cardinals who were involved in the conclave, and so what really went on inside the Sistine Chapel?

PHILLIPS: Oh, wow.

GALLAGHER: And so we saw it all from the outside. We saw the window, we saw the smoke.

PHILLIPS: That's right, we talked about it for hours.

GALLAGHER: But we -- but now we get to see what they say about really happened on the inside.

PHILLIPS: All right, next week, we'll have some of your pieces and talk more about it, Delia.

GALLAGHER: Good. PHILLIPS: Thank you so much.

GALLAGHER: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, not since Frasier and Ali has there been such a heavyweight match-up. In one corner, the Dalai Lama; in the other, Richard Quest. LIVE FROM on a quest for zen. Go grab your mantra, meet us back here in about 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A lot of questions still remaining to why a woman would want to shoot her husband. She has confessed to authorities, we're told, and now her three children are in the custody of the government. We're talking about the slain minister's wife, now to be charged with murder. It's a story that we found out this morning. These pictures coming to us through one of our affiliates, WHBQ.

This is what we know, is that Mary Winkler, 32 -- we just finally got her mug shot in -- is going to face a charge of first-degree murder. The body of her husband, Matthew Winkler, 31 -- he was a popular preacher there in the small town of Selmer, Tennessee -- he was found at the family's home Wednesday night. Mary Winkler apparently was found later with her children in Alabama. She was questioned by authorities, and we were told that is where she confessed to the murder. She's not made a public statement, but it's a story we're continuing to follow.

Let's get straight to Tony Harris now. He's working a developing story for us in the newsroom. Those protests going on, protests against immigration reform, Tony. They seem to be getting bigger and spreading across the United States?

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that's it, spreading, Kyra. We told you about -- and you're right. The students in Los Angeles who were protesting any kind of a crackdown on immigration. Kyra Phillips, take a look at this scene. We'll get the picture that best sets the scene for you in just a moment at this massive demonstration that is going on right now in Phoenix, Arizona.

We'll get the shot that best depicts this, but this is huge. Here's the thing. This is part of a wave of demonstrations that are scheduled to be capped off tomorrow in the Los Angeles -- OK, here's a better picture -- that are scheduled to be capped off tomorrow in Los Angeles, with a large, coordinated demonstration where the organizers expect up to 500,000 people to participate, all in opposition to any real crackdown on immigration.

But, obviously, here's the scene in Phoenix. We showed you the picture out of Los Angeles earlier in the hour. Things are getting started at least a day earlier.

Now, this week -- next week, as you know, the Senate will take up immigration reform, with at least four different proposals kicking around. And the bill that has sparked all of this demonstration today was the bill that was passed by the House that was sponsored by Congressman Sensenbrenner that makes entering the country illegally a felony and calls for construction of, what, 700 miles of security fencing all along the U.S./Mexico border.

President Bush is in a tough spot here. He is asking for, first of all, a civil debate next week on this subject. But the president wants a couple of revisions that have him at odds with his own party: immigration reform that includes a guest worker program. And then there is the question of what to do with the more than 11 million people already in the United States illegally and if they will be given any kind of chance to earn legal status in the country.

Once again, Kyra, just amazing live pictures. Don't -- well, you know, we thought we would have an estimate from the organizers of this, the Border Action Network, of how many people are on hand for this, but as you can see, clearly, thousands of people taking part in this rally in opposition of a crackdown on immigration in Phoenix, Arizona.

We will keep an eye on this and similar demonstrations breaking out across the country -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're talking about one of the fastest growing populations.

HARRIS: That's right.

PHILLIPS: ... even in Los Angeles, you know, I remember, just within the past decade or so, Tony, just how many were moving to Los Angeles and these issues were hot and heavy, especially on the governor, on Schwarzenegger's campaign. You remember all the controversy about dealing with types of reform. That's just in, you know, Los Angeles. But I'm being told those pictures actually stopping traffic.

HARRIS: Wow. Oh, yes.

PHILLIPS: They've gotten so big and it's gotten so spread out.

HARRIS; And, clearly, what you have here is this very well- coordinated effort in the days before the debate begins next week in the Senate to try to have a voice. These are groups that are clearly trying to influence that debate next week. To what extent, we'll find out certainly next week, but, clearly, this is a well-organized, well- coordinated, effort.

PHILLIPS: Tony Harris, thanks so much.

HARRIS: Sure, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead on LIVE FROM, a training flight crashes in the Sierra, Nevada. An airman is missing, frozen in time for more than 60 years. Well, next hour, the man's family and the military bid him a final farewell. That's straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Zen and the art of television interview. Is this even possible when a Tibetan saying tells us much talking can be a source of danger? Nevertheless, our intrepid Richard Quest is up to that challenge. He sat down with the Dalai Lama to extract some spiritual wisdom. Topic a, China.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THE DALAI LAMA, SPIRITUAL LEADER: Our problem dealing with people from China. Huge country. Very big nation, economically, militarily, manpower, everything, very big nation. Dealing with that, we need more patience.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, about 8,000 Tibetan refugees call Dar Es Salaam (ph) their second home. Many more cross the border each year in search of a new life, often just passing through for a blessing from his holiness before settling elsewhere.

It's a bustling community, doggedly preserving religious, educational and cultural traditions.

(on camera): Do you get angry?

THE DALAI LAMA: Oh, yes.

QUEST: Really?

THE DALAI LAMA: Oh, yes.

If you ask some stupid question, I may lose my anger.

QUEST (on camera): Oh.

But people never think of the Dalai Lama as getting angry.

THE DALAI LAMA: That is nonsense. I'm a human being. Of course, I spend lot time or energy trying to -- shaping my mind, try to less these negative emotions, less anger and jealousy.

I'm Buddhist. From the Buddhist viewpoint, it may take several lifers. Year by year, decade by decade, you can see some improvement. Now, my mental state compare, say 20 years ago, 20 years ago, today, I think, hopefully, at least hopefully, I think my mental state much better. Thus, I believe (INAUDIBLE) my practice. But still, I'm a human being. I'm normal human being.

QUEST: No, no, no.

THE DALAI LAMA: Therefore, I prefer -- I should have angry or anger in order to do I'm not a human being.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Richard Quest joins me now live from London with more of his close encounter with enlightenment. Now, Richard, tell me as you were that close, eye to eye, did he reach you?

QUEST: Oh, not only that, he gave me a big hug. I was a bit concerned, Kyra. This is his holiness, the Dalai Lama. Was I allowed to touch him? Would it have been a diplomatic faux pas to touch his hand. Not a bit of it. Walk into the room, the man with that infectious laughter goes, ha, ha, ha, big hug from Dalai Lama. And I'm just sort of left thinking, this is one of those career moments that you will, or I will remember.

PHILLIPS: Every dreams of an interview like that. I'm extremely jealous, but then again, I'm not being very spiritually sound if I'm being jealous. So I have to be very thankful that you got this interview.

Tell me more of what he was like and what you really walked away with, Richard?

QUEST: We were there primarily to talk about spirituality. And the key question, the key question, do you have to have god to be spiritual? Now in the same program that I was making, an American pastor, says, yes, you do have to have god. The Dalai Lama is very clear. You can have something called secular spirituality. It is about being good within. And that's the one thing you feel when you meet this man. He has striven for 50 years, five decades in exile, Kyra. And this man has striven to be at peace and try to find tranquility. And he says you can do it without having any God, if you like, into the equation. That was most surprising for me.

PHILLIPS: Well, did he -- was he somehow saying that God is in all of us? However you look at it, God is in all of it's us, just a matter of finding it and figuring out how to bring it out in the best way?

QUEST: No, I think he was more suggesting that actually in some cases God can be a hindrance to finding that spirituality, in the sense -- and I can hear the right Christian movement, frothing at the mouth, reaching for their laptops and texting their approbation even as we speak, but what the Dalai Lama is saying, is it is about doing good, what they call the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And if you can do that and if you can train your mind to get rid of the anger, the jealousy. Bad luck there, Kyra, you're going to have to work a bit harder on that. If you can get rid of all those, then you stand a chance. Meditation, for instance, whether it be transcendental or otherwise.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'm a big believer in meditation. It's the discipline part, that's it. Richard Quest, I can't wait to talk to you more about this. I can tell...

QUEST: Chocolate and ice cream.

PHILLIPS: Oh, that's easy to fight, believe me. That's not the demon.

Richard Quest, what a great conversation.

Well, straight ahead, we're talking about discharged hospital patients now. Quite a different story. Dumped on L.A.'s Skid Row.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE Going to be welcomed and treated with dignity; don't drop them off like baggage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Problem has gotten so bad, a surveillance camera has been set up. The sad tale of that tape, straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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