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Massive Labor Protests Cause Disruptions Across France

Aired March 28, 2006 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Incredible live pictures right now out of Paris, France. More than a million people, we are told, that are joining this just rolling wave of strikes and protests across France right now.
Basically, you've got the majority of youth coming together in the biggest show of force yet against the government and this new labor law. We're even starting to see a number of skirmishes break out with police.

You can see the water tanks that have been brought in. There you go, that's a international sign that we all know very well. Protesters there, going up against those water tanks. Also, Paula Hancocks reporting that tear gas also has been dispensed at these protesters.

Chris Burns on the phone with us right now. Chris, can you tell us exactly where you are? Chris Burns are you with me?

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I'm at our -- yes, if you can hear me. I'm actually at the -- our CNN office. But I was with the protesters all day, and it was peaceful -- generally peaceful. There were a couple of incidents. But this is the typical pattern where you have, at the end of a protest, things do cut loose.

You have what -- do they call it cassaldes (ph) -- the people who like to break things. But you also -- we're also seeing here militant students holding out, refusing to evacuate the square. Police are under orders to evacuate the square this hour and, of course, some of these students are refusing to go.

This is just one of more than 130 protests across the country, plus strikes in all kinds of sectors. It idled a third of the flights -- of plane flights in this country. Buses, subway systems, the Eiffel Tower was shut down -- banks, energy, chemical, steel, oil, postal workers, food processing -- across the specter and the gamut of all kinds of sectors, people were striking today, this one-day strike, to make the point to the conservative government that they do not agree at all with this new employment law.

PHILLIPS: So put it in perspective for us. We've got about a million people, we're being told, throughout the streets here. Are we talking a million people against this labor law? Are we talking a combination of for and against out here? I mean, can you kind of give me a perspective?

BURNS: No, these are definitely a million people who are very, very much against this law and the organizers are pretending and ...

PHILLIPS: There's nobody in this crowd ...

BURNS: ... claiming there were as many as three million people. No, in this crowd, these are all opponents of this labor law, making this very clear to the government, that they believe it should be withdrawn. There are, though -- keep in mind, there are a lot of -- a number of students we talked to who are sick and tired of this multi- week demonstration by students.

They want to go back to school, they want to take final exams. And, of course within Dominique de Villepin's, the prime minister's, own party, he's got very strong support by conservatives that he should go ahead with this law -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's talk -- let's give a little background to this law, Chris. We talked a little bit with Paula Hancocks, but she's right down there in the middle of it all. And it was kind of difficult to hear her. But basically, let's talk about Villepin.

I did understand that she was saying he really didn't go into intense negotiations with regard to this subject matter. He basically made a pretty quick decision, which is what has created such a massive response in such a short period of time. Is that right?

BURNS: Well, absolutely. It added insult to injury. What happened was de Villepin was in a hurry to do something about those riots, riots in mainly immigrant neighborhoods outside -- in neighborhood suburbs outside of Paris and other cities, where rioting shook those areas last fall.

So two months after those riots, he announced this is -- he announces this law. He rams it through Parliament under a special article of the Constitution that lets him do it without any debate. His conservative-controlled Parliament rams it through without asking the labor movement, without asking youth, without asking these students, and that is what makes them so livid is that fact.

Also, of course, provisions of that law, that say you can't appeal if you get fired within the first two months. I mean, to some Americans, that's outrageous that you can't go hire a labor lawyer and contest this. You can't do that. So they see this as extremely outrageous and that's why they're fighting it.

On the other hand, de Villepin is trying to fight unemployment of as high as 50 percent in those riot areas and among youth in general, nearly one in four. The country has to do something about unemployment. If they loosen this labor -- if they bring this labor law to loosen the provisions, it will encourage employers. They're very happy about this law.

They'd love to see it, to hire youth without all these requirements to pay all these taxes, all these charges, to hire people. It would make it much more flexible and that's why he believes it would fight unemployment. He's got a similar law that's in effect right now that has been hiring thousands of people a month just by loosening that labor law.

PHILLIPS: Well, you know, the part about -- now, tell me if I'm correct about a part of this contract. You were saying that it would allow some of these young men and women under the age of 26 to be terminated without justification for the first two years. Is that correct?

BURNS: Yes, that's absolutely -- that's absolutely correct and that's -- and de Villepin said that he's willing to tinker with it if they're willing to talk, but they don't want it.

PHILLIPS: Well, Chris ...

BURNS: They want him to pull it completely off the shelf.

PHILLIPS: Well, let me ask you, I mean, is there -- is anybody saying this, in the long run, would be better because our youth need to see that they need to be disciplined and hard workers and can't take any job for granted. So is the idea that this will discipline the youth in some way with regard to a work ethic, or is that -- is that not a part of the thinking here?

BURNS: Well, some might argue that case, because the -- otherwise, what, of course, a lot of youth would like, is a permanent contract, which basically means a job for life and that is what companies are so terribly terrified about. They would like to have sort of a test session, a probationary period, this two year period.

They're willing to cut it down to a year if they have to, but they need time to be able to decide whether they're going to hire somebody, especially somebody who is low-skilled or unskilled, low- wage. They need time for that.

So that's why de Villepin has this contract for first employment, CPE, though some people are quipping that the CPE actually stands for, in the French letters, "how to lose an election" and that's why he has to be very careful about how he handles this.

PHILLIPS: You know, that's interesting. It makes me think of, you know, growing up in a home of professors, the issue of tenure. And I remember, you know, my parents coming back, say, boy, as soon as some of those teachers got tenure, their work ethic changed.

Of course, that wasn't with everybody. But it's interesting that the theory here is they don't want to take a risk until these individuals have proven themselves, right?

BURNS: Well, that's basically it, exactly. They want to see somebody proving their worth, and -- however, I guess, if you put your mind in some of these youths' minds, they study very hard for very long. They have a degree, and they would like to get a job. They would like to get a job with security.

And what is being offered to them is a low-wage job with absolutely no security, no guarantees. The boss can fire them, no questions asked, in the first two years of that contract. That's absolutely outrageous to a lot of these students who think it's just an insult.

On the other hand, you've got these businesses that are terrified of taking risks because of those very high labor charges that can amount to 50 percent of somebody's salary. And that -- in fact, we went and talked to some business, smaller businesses who say that it doesn't matter about this probationary period, cut my labor taxes. That's what's going to encourage me to hire these youth.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. Cut labor taxes. Taking notes here, Chris, as we're chatting. Chris Burns there in our bureau, monitoring these live pictures. Chris, sorry about the delay between the two of us. We're going to take a quick break, though, and then head out back to the center of that protest, where our Paula Hancocks is. We're going to talk more with Chris and more with Paula about these protests. Chris says possibly three million people scattered throughout France right now, protesting this new labor law. We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We continue to follow these pretty amazing live pictures out of Paris, France, right now. We're being told possibly three million protesters throughout France. And we're talking about a new labor law. We're told even the scale of these protests, possibly the biggest in modern French history.

You can see here, they started out pretty peaceful a few hours ago. And now we're actually seeing arrests being made. We're seeing some of these protesters being dragged through the streets. We're seeing water tanks brought out, trying to keep these protesters at bay. Even tear gas.

Our Paula Hancocks right there in the middle of it all.

Paula, we were talking with Chris Burns. When you and I were talking, we were saying possibly about a million people. Chris is getting even bigger numbers now, possibly three million protesters scattered throughout France right now, including a large majority of those individuals right around you where you are.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, yes, and it's very difficult to get exact figures of how many people are on the streets. The unions themselves, who organize these protests, are saying there are 3 million across the country.

But in this particular square where I am, there's definitely tens of thousands that are still in this square. The police are trying to disperse and trying to get many of them to go home. And they're also cordoning off certain areas of this square. They're actually binding people up at the moment with the water canyons on one side, which inevitably is going to push people towards the other line (INAUDIBLE) on the other side (INAUDIBLE) square.

PHILLIPS: Paula, I'm having a little bit of a hard time hearing you and understanding you. I don't know if you're able to move around a little bit to see if your cell phone gets a better connection. You're kind of cutting in and out. But if you can continue to hear me, the government coming forward and insisting to -- trying to -- well, really stand by its decision on this new labor law, telling these protesters that they believe this contract is vital to fighting the youth unemployment.

And that goes back even to the protests you and I were talking about earlier, back in 2005. We saw those protests in the poorer suburbs that created those riots where they were burning cars and burning buildings. Is there another -- is there a majority, minority, I don't know how the numbers play out -- of students that support the government and think that this new law is vital to fighting youth unemployment?

HANCOCKS: Well, obviously, (INAUDIBLE) a small cross-section of the students at a protest like this. There are some students that did say that they actually wanted to go back to university, they wanted to actually take their final exams. There's suggestions that those exams, which are supposed to be in April, May, June, could actually have to be postponed because universities have been closed for some time and disrupted study.

The majority of students don't want this law to go in. And it's perfectly from the protests, as you can see in this particular square at the moment. They're dead set against. They (INAUDIBLE) have job security, and they think it will be very easy for big employers to sack them for no reason and give them very little notice. And the compensation is not necessarily going to be what they want.

So this is the reason they're protesting today. Obviously, the prime minister thinks this is necessary, that it will actually make this labor market more flexible and to start the employment. But people I'm standing in the middle of now do not agree with that one bit.

PHILLIPS: Paula Hancocks, joining us by phone right there in the middle of these protests. We're going to take a quick break and continue to follow what appears to be about three million protesters scattered throughout France right now, protesting this new labor law, a labor law that these youth say just is not fair. Contracts that give them no job security, while the government says these contracts are vital to fighting youth unemployment.

We're going to follow it, and talk more about these protests, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Our international desk, monitoring the same thing we're monitoring right now, that's these live pictures out of Paris, France.

What started out as a pretty small protest has now grown. Possibly three million people across France right now. They're joining just a massive wave of strikes and protests across France and the biggest show of force yet, we're told, against the government's new youth jobs law. We've seen a number of skirmishes break out with police right now. You're seeing the various crowd control, tactical units lining up and organizing. Because it was starting to get a little chaotic there. We saw the water tanks roll in to try and move some of those protesters out of the way, try to get them to calm down. Tear gas also being used.

It looks pretty calm right now. Moments ago, we did see some of the police, members of the police, taking away some of those protesters and arresting them. We've been talking to Paula Hancocks, she's right there in the middle of it. Also our Chris Burns, he's in the bureau.

On the phone, political analyst Dominique Mousi, he's the Deputy Director of the French Institute for International Relations. Can you hear me OK?

DOMINIQUE MOUSI, DEP. DIR., FRENCH INST. INTL. RELATIONS: Yes, I can hear you.

PHILLIPS: Are you right there -- tell me exactly where you are.

MOUSI: Well, I'm walking in the streets and in that part of Paris it's quiet. But it has been the biggest demonstration and a very strong symbol that the government hopes that the demonstrators would decrease today has been proven wrong. In fact, it's mounting by the day.

PHILLIPS: Dominique, obviously we've been hearing a lot from the protesters why these young men and women are against this new labor law. They say it's depriving them of job security. These contracts that would allow employers to terminate them without any justification within the first two years.

Yet the government is standing by this law, saying, look, this is vital to fighting youth unemployment and an issue that -- boy, we could talk about high employment all the way back to the French Revolution in 1789.

What is your take when seeing both sides of this and as a political analyst, does the government have an argument here?

MOUSI: Well, as a French citizen and not as an analyst, I'm very sad. Because on the one hand, I find the protesters very reactionary, very anachronistic in their refusal of modernity.

On the other hand, the way the government tried to implement a justified reform was extremely negative. I mean, you don't do that, especially so close to a presidential election. It was a recipe for disaster. And the end result of it is that reform will be proven nearly impossible and extremely difficult in the country which needs reform most. So by the end of the day, I'm sad. Between the anachronism of the people and the despotism of the authority.

PHILLIPS: You know, from a personal angle, you bring the point up that you're a native, you're from this country. Is it a part of your culture, a part of your education, to never forget the revolution? It's very much embedded in your culture? I mean, the youth have always believed it's the right of being French to revolt like this, right?

MOUSI: Yes, there's an element of that, but it's anachronistic, it's immature. By the end of the day, negotiations start to take shape and then you negotiation and that's -- it's very, very bad it shouldn't be that way.

PHILLIPS: Even the Prime Minister Villepin came forward and told the national assembly that he regretted the union's refusal to enter talks. Why weren't there better negotiations? Can you even look at the situation and say, look, one party is more at fault than another?

MOUSI: No, I think both parties are at fault to a large extent. In a normal country, too. I would say that the opposition would display the role, a positive role, like in Germany, saying if the reform is necessary, let's support it. And the opposition played exactly the opposite role, showing, also, signs of immaturity. So by the end of the day, the country's seams (ph) were revealed in that story. I'm very sad for it.

PHILLIPS: All right, from a personal side, you're talking about how you're saddened by this. Now I want you to put on your political analyst cap for me and tell me how does France go forward looking at possibly three million protesters here? I mean, Villepin has a major issue here on his hands. How do you go about dealing with this massive problem?

We saw what happened in 2005 in November. We saw how out of control those protests and riots got on behalf of the immigrant community, burning of car, burning of buildings. And we're starting to see some of that here. There have been a number of arrests that have taken place.

MOUSI: The line is falling apart. I can't hear you any longer. We'll have to cut it.

PHILLIPS: All right, Dominique, we'll try to get connected to you again. Political analyst Dominique Mousi, he's trying to work his way to the protests, calling us from the cell phone. He is actually the deputy director of the French Institute for International Relations, trying to give us a little bit of a perspective, personal perspective and also a political analyst perspective on what we're seeing here.

If you're just joining us, we're going to take a quick break, but we're following these massive protests, possibly one of the biggest protests across France, biggest show of force yet against the government's new youth jobs law. We're going to continue to follow these live pictures and try to talk to more protesters there in the center of Paris.

We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM after this.

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