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Protests in France Over New Jobs Law; White House Shakeup?; Supreme Court Hears Case of Osama bin Laden's Former Driver

Aired March 28, 2006 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: It's our top story today. Live pictures out of Paris, France. What started as a pretty small protest has grown to possibly three million protesters, we're told now, across France.
Joining this rolling wave of strikes and protests across the country, possibly the biggest show of force yet against the government's new youth jobs law, we've seen a number of small skirmishes break out among police, some protesters being dragged away, some being arrested. Tear gas has been used. We saw the water tanks come in, actually pushing some of those protesters out of the streets.

The crowd control continues to grow. We're seeing a number of tactical officers move in and set up perimeters and try to keep these protesters calm and at bay.

We continue to talk about this new labor law, both sides of it and how it's affecting this country.

Want to get back to our Paula Hancocks on the phone. She's actually right down there in the middle of the protests.

Tell us, Paula, first of all, the significance of where we're seeing these live pictures. Why are so many of these men and women gathered in this one specific area?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is where they decided to march to today. They wanted to have the protest through the streets of Paris. Tens of thousands of them did that march, and the protesters wanted to end up here as a show of force, to be able to show Prime Minister De Villepin just how many were dead set against this law that he's trying to push through.

It's not just in Paris, it's nationwide. There's been a tremendous amount of people getting on to the streets. This appears to be the only flash point at the moment where there have been a few skirmishes with riot police. I think the riot police at the moment are just trying to cordon people off and split them up into smaller groups so they actually try and get some of them to go home.

PHILLIPS: Now Paula, did this start -- I mean, we started reporting on this because we started to see the live pictures get intense within the past couple of hours. But did this actually start overnight? Did it start early this morning? When did you actually see this begin and start to grow? HANCOCKS: Well, the actual nationwide strike that we have today, the transport strike, started last night. Some of the trains at 8:00 p.m. local time last night actually stopped working.

And then today we had about a third of the planes were grounded domestically, we had about half of the trains weren't working. And so it's more than just the students and just the union members. They actually situated some of the transport workers to walk out as well, and some bank workers, and some media also. There have been no newspapers this Tuesday, as no one went to work to actually publish the newspapers.

So it's not -- it's not just a small cross section of the community. But it's only in the last couple of hours or so that we've really seen the tensions escalate, I should say, probably when the tear gas and the water cannons came out.

PHILLIPS: So Paula, let me ask you, then, this transit strike and this media strike that's taking place -- because we haven't really talked very much about those specific strikes -- is that folded into this new labor law, or are we talking about a couple of different issues here mixed in with this new labor law?

HANCOCKS: It's the same law. The unions asked many of the transport workers to walk out to show a solidarity with the students and the unions themselves, and that's exactly what the transport workers did.

It's the five biggest unions here in France that are involved in this. That does encompass a great many workers, which is why we're seeing such -- so many people on the streets at the moment.

Across the whole of France, unions are saying there could be up to three million protesters that have come on to the streets. I mean, there's no way of independently confirming that, but there's certainly down in Marseilles, down in the south of France, there was a quarter of a million earlier on today.

A peaceful protest, but a huge public feeling about this law. Sixty percent in the latest poll, French people, do not want this law. They don't agree that it should go through. So they support these protesters.

PHILLIPS: And we're talking about a law that concerns workers under the age of 26. And these new contracts basically say that employers can terminate them without any justification within the first two years in order to prove their abilities.

Why the age 26? What's the significance of that number?

HANCOCKS: Well, the reason the prime minister picked 26 is because some of the youth unemployment figures are taken from under 25, under 26.

The unemployment rate for France is just over 9 percent. But the unemployment rate for France under the age of 25 jumps to 23 percent. The youth unemployment is almost double the national average, so this is the particular cross section of society that the prime minister wants to help and wants to target. So that's why he decided that he would target the under -- the under-26 people.

PHILLIPS: Paula Hancocks right there in the middle of those protests.

Paula, thank you so much. I know it's been a long day for you. We appreciate you bringing us all the updated information.

These protests today continue to grow. We're going to stay on top of this story, follow these live pictures. It's definitely calmed down from what we saw within the past 45 minutes or so with the water cannons and the arrests.

You're seeing a number more -- a larger number of riot police moving into the area trying to keep it calm throughout France. Possibly up to three million protesters right now, youth having an issue with this new labor law.

We'll follow the live pictures, we'll follow developments within this new law, hear from both sides, continue to check in with our Paula Hancocks.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, a lot of breaking news today.

Wolf, I'm all plugged in. I can hear you.

We're talking about this big change in the Bush administration right now. Bush's right-hand man handed in his resignation. I can't think of anybody else better to talk to right now. You were a former CNN White House correspondent, host now of "THE SITUATION ROOM."

I'm -- I'm curious, were you surprised by this?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not surprised at all, Kyra. A lot of speculation over these past several weeks as the president's job approval numbers went down that there needed to be some sort of shakeup at the White House.

It was widely anticipated. Look, these are killer jobs, especially the White House chief of staff. And Andy Card has been on that job since day one.

He gets up at 4:00, 4:30 in the morning. He's at the White House by 5:00, 5:30, usually one of the last people to leave, 9:00, even 10:00 at night. It's been nonstop, and it's just exhausting. And sometimes you need a break, sometimes you need some new people coming in.

Josh Bolten, just a little bit younger than Andy Card. Andy Card is 58. Josh Bolten is 51.

He's widely experienced in the White House. He was a deputy chief of staff. He went on to become the budget director. He knows the players, he certainly has the confidence of the president.

So they'll bring in a new chief of staff. And I would anticipate this is not necessarily the end of the road as far as staff changes are concerned.

Once Josh Bolten becomes the chief of staff in mid-April, Kyra, I assume he's going to want to move some other people around, maybe bring in some more faces, make himself feel a little bit more comfortable. That's natural. It's not unusual. And all of this is designed presumably to try to better serve the president.

PHILLIPS: Well, Wolf, let me ask you. I mean, everybody is talking about bringing in fresh blood, bringing in new blood. I mean, Josh Bolten is very good friends with the president. He is not from the outside. He's already been in this circle.

If you look back to President Reagan, the whole Iran-Contra affair, you'll remember he had to get rid of Don Regan, he brought in Howard Baker. Howard Baker totally from the outside. And you saw the numbers start to go up, and Reagan, of course, we saw how his reputation ended up being all the way to the end there.

So, is Bolten really an outsider coming in to shakes things up, or is he just another one of these friends from the inside circle kind of changes places?

BLITZER: He is definitely not an outsider. He's been in the inner circle of the Bush administration going back to the Bush candidacy in 2000.

He's been in the inner circle ever since. He's certainly one of the key players, has been the budget director, plays an enormous role in shaping not only the budget, but certainly the priorities of the administration. He's been a key player, and he's not that kind of new blood as if they were going to bring in former senator Fred Thompson or somebody of that line.

So it is part of the same team, but still, whenever you get a new chief of staff it does shake things up. He'll have a different style than Andy Card certainly did. And I'm convinced that this is not necessarily the end of the road as far as staff changes are concerned.

There are going to be some more.

PHILLIPS: Even U.S. Senator Charles Schumer coming forward, saying, "The good news is the administration has finally realized it needs to change its ways. But the problems go far deeper than one staffer. Simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic by replacing Andy Card with Josh Bolten without a dramatic change in policy will not right this ship."

What are your sources telling you, Wolf?

BLITZER: Well, there's no doubt that the people at the highest levels remain the same, the president, the vice president, the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, most of the key cabinet, with the exception of Gale Norton, who's leaving as the interior secretary. All those players remain on the job.

But still, within the White House, chief of staff is a really, really important job. And dealing with all the cabinet -- cabinet members, all the various government agencies, certainly dealing with Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate, and Josh Bolten will bring a different style. But as I suspect -- I think we should all just hold our breath a little bit, because in the next several weeks, Kyra, I think there are going to be some more changes.

PHILLIPS: Wolf Blitzer, thanks so much. We're going to see you top of the hour, 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

BLITZER: Top of the -- not the next hour, but the hour after that, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That's right, incase people are not paying attention to the clock.

BLITZER: And Kyra, I just want our viewers to remember, when we started this live shot it was Kyra Phillips unplugged.

PHILLIPS: And you know what? We just saw Wolf Blitzer unplugged. That's an amazing thing.

BLITZER: Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I look forward to unplugging in about exactly, oh, an hour and 45 minutes or so.

BLITZER: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Bye.

Major news from the Federal Reserve expected any moment now. Are interest rates about to climb? We're going to break down the numbers for you.

The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you unplugged.

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PHILLIPS: Any second now waiting to hear about those interest rates. The ever-brilliant Susan Lisovicz joining us for a little Q&A here as we wait.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: He used to drive Osama bin Laden. Now he's trying to curb President Bush.

Salim Ahmed Hamdan made it -- or Hamdan, rather -- made it as far as the Supreme Court of the United States. And that means a change of venue for our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

Jamie, not used to seeing you out there in front of the Supreme Court.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, this could be -- and it might not, but it could be a historic case. All the earmarks of potentially having a landmark ruling on the limits of presidential power in the war on terrorism, specifically whether President Bush had the authority to set up these military commissions which set the rules for the trials for these detainees at Guantanamo Bay and other places, as well as the review of their decision.

Now, most of the arguments today were about whether or not the court had jurisdiction because of a law passed by Congress that attempted to preempt some of that jurisdiction. But there are also arguments about simply whether the trials are fair.

Here's a little bit of what Hamdan's attorney said and some of the response he got from Justice Alito.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEAL KATYAL, ATTORNEY FOR HAMDAN: If you adopt the government's reading here, they said that they want to try 75 military commission cases or so in the first wave. You will then be left with 75 trials that take place without even the most basic question of what the parameters are that these commissions are...

JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Well, it (INAUDIBLE) fairly balanced it. I mean, I guess that depends upon your reading of the statute. If, indeed, you read it the way the government reads it, they would assert that Congress did consider these military commissions and thought that it was OK to wait until they had completed their work before -- before a full review was provided. I mean, it's sort of -- you know, you're running in a circle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Actually, that's the voice of Justice Antonin Scalia. But Scalia and Samuel Alito were the two justices who seemed to be giving a sympathetic ear to the government's argument that these commissions were in a sense authorized by Congress when it passed authority for the president to go to war and then passed this subsequent bill discussing the treatment of detainees.

But the government was getting a lot of skeptical questions from five of the other justices about whether or not this really complied with the law of war. At one point, Justice Kennedy asked them if they -- how they could argue on one hand that the military commissions were upholding the law of war, but on the other hand saying that the law of war didn't apply.

So an interesting case. And also interesting, Kyra, justice -- the chief justice, John Roberts, did not hear the case. He recused himself because he was part of a lower court panel that ruled in favor of the government. So the eight justices will decide the case probably sometime later this summer.

PHILLIPS: All right. Jamie McIntyre, thanks so much. Well, you think your job is hard. Pity Zacarias Moussaoui's lawyers, forced to try to save the admitted al Qaeda plotter from himself. In shocking testimony yesterday, Moussaoui said that he knew what has -- what was going to happen on 9/11 and was even going to take part, but he had lied to investigators earlier. Other al Qaeda operatives, however, say Moussaoui's lying now.

In statements presented today by the defense, they say Moussaoui was not part of the 9/11 plot, in part because he refused to follow instructions and kept violating the group's security measures. It's up to the jury to decide whom to believe and whether Moussaoui should get life in prison or date.

A radioactive reports brings fallout on Capitol Hill. A Senate subcommittee is hearing plenty about nuclear materials that made it past two U.S. borders in Texas and Washington State. In both cases, government investigators used fake documents downloaded from the Internet to help them sneak the nukes past checkpoints. In both cases, agents had enough material to put together a dirty bomb.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The ease with which the GAO was able to move these materials into the United States should be an alarming wakeup call to all of us. In particular, to the Department of Homeland Security, but to all Americans about the extent of our vulnerability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, one improvement should be up and running in the next six weeks, a system to help border agents to confirm whether government licenses are authentic.

Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Water cannons and tear gas on the streets of Paris. We'll see if the situation is winding down with nightfall.

The news keeping coming. We'll keep bringing it to you.

More LIVE FROM next.

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