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Abramoff Gets Six Years for Fraud; Interview with Granddaughter of Cesar Chavez

Aired March 29, 2006 - 14:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The president of the United States speaking at the Freedom House there, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that promotes democracy and freedom around the world.
He gave a speech on the war on terror. Nothing really new within that speech. But then took Q&A with individuals in the crowd.

Well, war, national security, the military, are the Republicans tougher on those fronts? No way, say the Democrats. They say the Bush administration is still on the wrong path.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: The president can give all the speeches that he wants, but nothing will change the fact that his Iraq policy is wrong.

(APPLAUSE)

REID: Two weeks ago he told the American people that Iraqis would control their country by the end of the year. But last week he told us that troops would be there until at least 2009.

These mixed messages from President Bush are taking America in the wrong direction and jeopardizing Iraq's chance for success.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, Reid's counterpart in the house, Representative Nancy Pelosi, says, "Democrats are providing a fresh strategy, one that is strong and smart which understands the challenges America faces in a post-9/11 world, and one that demonstrates that Democrats are the party of real national security."

Well, this is sentencing day for the disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Find out if he will serve time in prison. A report from Miami when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, he used to be a legend among D.C. lobbyists, a powerful presence at the political intersection where money and power collide. But when Jack Abramoff appeared in a Florida courtroom today, he was just a defendant hoping for leniency.

CNN National Correspondent Susan Candiotti joins us now live from Miami where Abramoff was just sentenced.

Susan, what happened.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.

Well, in fact,, his defense attorneys will tell you he did get the kind of leniency he sought, the lowest end of the federal sentencing guidelines for his crime. Jack Abramoff sentenced to just under six years in prison. Specifically, five years and 10 months.

He told the court he felt both chastened and remorseful. He said that he felt incredibly painful. It was painful for him, his family and friends. Especially for him, he said, and that he was seeking to make amends.

In fact, as part of his sentence, he was ordered to pay $21.7 million in restitution. The government went along with this sentence because it said that by pleading guilty, Abramoff had, indeed, saved the court time and money, that he had shown remorse, and that he was willing to make good on the great losses that he had caused in committing fraud in this deal to buy a Florida casino gambling ship.

Now, of course, as part of the deal, Abramoff must also continue to provide cooperation for that ongoing investigation on Capitol Hill into alleged corruption through his lobbying business. And, in fact, according to Abramoff's defense attorneys, Abramoff has already provided hundreds of hours of cooperation over -- and hundreds of thousands of documents over dozens of topics.

So I guess it's fairly safe to say that some people in Washington could be shaking in their shoes, depending on what exactly he's telling prosecutors and investigators as part of that ongoing probe.

Kyra, he does not have to report to jail right away, however. They're giving him at least six months while he continues to work with investigators in Washington.

Back to you.

PHILLIPS: Susan Candiotti, thanks so much.

Let's get straight to Carol Lin. She's working a developing story for us regarding Jill Carroll, the U.S. hostage being held in Iraq. Carol, what's the latest?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, it may be that Jill Carroll's family still believes there's a good chance that she is alive. Just within the last hour, while President Bush was talking about Iraq, Jill Carroll's twin sister, Katie, gave an interview to Arab television network Al-Arabia. This is just a portion of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE CARROLL, JILL CARROLL'S SISTER: I'm speaking to you today because it's been nearly two months since the last video of Jill was broadcast. We've had no contact with her, nor received any information about her condition. There is no one I hold closer to my heart than my sister Jill, and I am deeply worried about how she's being treated. No family should have to have their loved one taken from them in this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Now, Kyra, what's interesting about this is that they have made the attempt to make this appeal on what is now the number one network inside of Iraq. And just in the last hour, I was talking with our Arab affairs editor about why the family was taking this -- yet again, an extraordinary step. Well, number one, the family may see some hope that three hostages were released, found alive, last week.

And also that while the family has said that they've had no direct contact, that this is an indication that there are conversations going on, intermediary conversations going on. So the family is once again making a personal appeal.

They're showing not only this interview on the Arab network, but they're also showing these incredible pictures that we want to share with you -- of childhood pictures. This is Katie and her sister Jill when they were six years old. Also, as they were growing up, a high school picture at graduation. And another picture that was taken recently when Jill Carroll came home about two years ago.

And also, they're saying that while the kidnappers are demanding that all female prisoners that the coalition has in custody in Iraq -- while the kidnappers are making that demand, Katie Carroll also alluded to that situation, by saying that her sister, quote, "always had special praise for the strength and resilience of Iraqi women and mothers."

So, Kyra, let's hope that there's some kind of, you know, progress or reaction inside of Baghdad if Jill Carroll is still alive.

PHILLIPS: Agreed. Carol Lin, thanks so much.

LIN: Sure.

PHILLIPS: Well, children out of control they're a danger to themselves and others. The goal is to get them help, but what if the only treatment left was guaranteed to be painful -- in fact, was designed to be painful? A closer look now at troubled children, their desperate parents, and a controversial treatment that critics say amounts to torture.

We want to warn you that some of these images you're about to see are pretty rough. Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Antwone Nicholson's school looks more like Disneyland than a place for kids with special needs. There are pinball machines and cartoon characters, wax figures and artwork punctuate with cornflower blues and vivid pinks. Each student has a computer, healthy food, plush quarters, heavy supervision, and constant attention.

Why then would Antwone's mother, Evelyn Nicholson, be fighting like mad to get him out of this place?

EVELYN NICHOLSON, ANTWONE'S MOTHER: He would call me up crying and say, "You've got to get me out of here. I can't take this."

KAYE: Because along with the perks at this center for troubled children come the punishments. The Judge Rotenberg Center claims to be the only one in the country using electric shock aversion therapy. They call it the Graduated Electronic Decelerator, the GED. And half their students go to school each day tethered to electrodes housed in a fanny pack.

(on camera): Really bad pain on a scale of one to 10, what would you say? Ten is really bad.

KAREEM ANDERSON, ROTENBERG CENTER STUDENT: Like seven.

KAYE (voice over): It's a therapy almost as old as electricity itself, banned as barbaric at a far higher voltage, illegal in some states. To Evelyn Nicholson, it is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" for kids.

Child psychiatrist David Fassler.

DAVID FASSLER, M.D., CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT: This is clearly an intervention which is out of the mainstream. Personally, I worry about the ramifications and the implications long term for the kids.

KAYE: Yet, Evelyn signed a legal consent form that allowed them to strap electrodes on Antwone that deliver 65 volts of electricity by remote control. He got them one at a time each time he cussed, hit, threatened, or frightened someone.

(on camera): You still signed it?

NICHOLSON: Yes.

KAYE: How come?

NICHOLSON: Because that was the only -- that was the only place they had for Antwone.

KAYE (voice-over): Now she's suing her New York school district for sending Antwone out of state so they could, in her words, torture and abuse him for engaging in aggressive, unfocused behavior.

Dr. Matthew Israel has been under fire from parents and doctors and psychiatrists since he invented the electric shock device 16 years ago. Dr. Israel calls it behavioral skin shock, a bee sting, a prick, an electric spanking, nothing like the convulsive shock treatments demonized in films.

DR. MATTHEW ISRAEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JUDGE ROTENBERG CENTER: Children who otherwise might blind themselves have been able to stop that behavior and become a much more normal life.

KAYE: Dr. Israel says he has treated 226 students on the GED. The 24/7 program costs taxpayers $213,000 per child each year.

(on camera): If you hadn't come here, what where would you be today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would be dead or in a hospital doped up on Thorazine.

KAYE (voice-over): The key to his credibility, he says, are students and parents. Inside his own colorful headquarters, Dr. Israel refused to speak to CNN without them, and his lawyers, staff, cameras, and recording devices.

(on camera): When you hear people or critics of this therapy say, this is like child abuse, this is inhumane, this is torture, does it make you all very angry?

(voice-over): These parents say their kids are the worst of the worst, head-bangers and biters, obsessive compulsives, out of control. A danger to themselves and others. That the GED, which is only administered with court and parental approval, saved their children's lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter was punching herself constantly like that in her eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thank God for the GED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wouldn't be alive today.

KAYE: According to his medical records, Antwone could also be one scary kid. He stole things, hit people, tried to sexually assault a girl.

NICHOLSON: He's 17, but he's really in between the age of a 4 and a 5-year-old child. And he can't -- he really can't function, he can't think. And he's really constantly repeating himself.

KAYE: When Antwone first arrived at the center, Dr. Israel says he acted out constantly. Mouthing off got him a reprimand, physical aggression was punished with a zap. Dr. Israel says after many zaps that number dropped to near zero.

(on camera): Your mom told us that you told her it was very painful. Is that true?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. It was painful.

KAYE (voice over): Dr. Israel says his treatment is also about rewards. Kids who behave well get treats and games. Bad behavior brings a single two-second skin shock.

(on camera): A student can wear up to five electrodes strapped to their arms and their legs. I strapped one here to my arm just to see how powerful the shock is. It's delivered with a remote control.

Oh! Oh, man! That hurts. That hurts.

(voice-over): What long-term harm or good prolonged treatment would have on a mentally handicapped teenager like Antwone is anyone's guess. His mother has ordered the treatment stopped.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Wow. Randi Kaye joining us live now to talk more about that piece. First of all, why did you want to see what it felt like, Randi? Just sheer curiosity?

KAYE: Sheer curiosity, and I think just watching these kids, some of them are very young, they're receiving this therapy. And we've heard so much about it from the folks who run that center saying that it feels just like a bee sting. And I can tell you that I wanted to know if that was true, and I didn't think that was true after feeling it. You saw the reaction.

It felt like this constant bombardment of pins on your skin. It goes right into the muscle, and you lose complete control of your muscle. And in this case it was my arm, Kyra. And so I can understand why it helps control these children if they're acting out. But it was really, really painful.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's interesting, because we've heard of this type of therapy in very extreme cases with adults. It sometimes seems so old-school in many ways. You even mentioned the movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." So is this one of the only doctors practicing this? Is this becoming more of a trend? Do you think he could be forced to stop doing this?

KAYE: It doesn't appear that this is a trend. He says that this is the only place in the country that is using this therapy. Could it be stopped? That remains to be seen, because right now about half of their students there in Canton, Massachusetts, are coming from the state of New York.

And right now, because of the Antwone Nicholson case, the state of New York is looking to have it banned, have this treatment banned for the students that they're sending to this center. So that, in a sense, could put the center out of business. It could certainly put the GED, the shock treatment, out of business, which Dr. Israel has designed.

PHILLIPS: Well, is there actual proof that this is working for, say, a majority of these kids, or is it a minority of these kids? And when we say that it's working, I mean, do they go home and they behave themselves and get up and are pleasant children?

KAYE: Well, first of all, they're not on it forever. They do what they call fading it out. That's how they refer to it. So they're on it for a little while, it seems to be working, and then they'll fade out the number of shocks that they're getting. They can stay there as long as they believe they need to stay there. These are the kids who really have no place else to go except for the Judge Rotenberg Center in Massachusetts. So they can stay there into their adult life, in fact. And as far as proof as to whether or not it's working, Dr. Israel says that just to see these children, it changed their behavior and to see them stop acting out and stop attacking the staff and stop hurting themselves, that is proof in itself.

PHILLIPS: Randi Kaye, thank you so much.

KAYE: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, carrying on a family tradition or joining us the enemy? A famous activist granddaughter seeks to make her own name as she steps into the political arena. What does her abuelita have to say about that? We're going to ask Christine Chavez when LIVE FROM returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The emotional battle over immigration has arrived on the Senate floor in Washington. Lawmakers are expected to consider two bills. One would create a guest worker program for illegals. It's backed by many Democrats, as well as some Republicans. A different bill, backed by most Republicans, focuses on tighter border controls and increased law enforcement.

President Bush, you might say, is somewhere in the middle. He favors the guest worker program, but he is also calling for better border security. The House has already passed a tough immigration bill that classifies illegal immigrants as felons.

The immigration battle continues on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT." Like President Bush, Lou is in Mexico today. It's a "Broken Borders" special report, starting at 6:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

The late Senator Robert Kennedy called Cesar Chavez "one of the most heroic figures of our time." Here's a look at the man and his struggle to help migrant farm workers in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): As a young boy, Cesar Chavez was in the field every day on his family's small farm in Mexico. During the Great Depression, in the 1930s, the family lost their farm and moved to California. That began a life of migrant labor, moving from farm to farm in search of work.

At 17, he joined the Navy in 1946, spending what he later said were the two worst years of his life. Out of the service, he returned to migrant farm work. In 1962, Chavez started the National Farm Workers Association and began crisscrossing California, talking to migrant farm workers.

Nonviolent activism was the foundation of his movement. In 1965, he began leading what became a five-year strike by California grape pickers and a nationwide boycott of California grapes.

In 1971, Chavez's group became the United Farm Workers of America. After a long battle with the Teamsters Union, both in the fields and court, a truce was signed in 1977 giving the UFW the sole right to organize farm workers. Chavez died in 1993. A year later he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Like the Kennedys, the Kings, and other families at the heart of America's civil rights struggles, members of the Chavez family also grew up in a world of social activism. For Christine Chavez, that activism started at a very tender age. She was just four when she was arrested while taking part in the famous grape boycott.

Now, she's taking a step that no one in her family has ever attempted, running for public office, and a seat in the California Assembly. Christine Chavez joins me now live from Los Angeles.

Christine, great to see you.

CHRISTINE CHAVEZ, FMR. UFW POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

PHILLIPS: I want to talk about that protest and being arrested at four years old, but I noticed your button. Is that the same button that your mom made you wear to school?

CHAVEZ: Yes, it is. You know, my mom growing up -- you know, when we were growing up, she used to have us wear this button in all of our school pictures because, you know, from the time we were in kindergarten to sixth grade, you can see us having this button on, because she said while she was growing up -- you know, they grew up in a heavily agricultural area, and they weren't allowed to wear this button to school, and so it was just -- it's a sense of pride that we wear this button everywhere.

PHILLIPS: What does it say on -- does it say anything on it, or is it just ...

CHAVEZ: No, it is the symbol of the United Farm Workers and a symbol that is known throughout the entire -- you know, not only the Latino community, but the entire community.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely. Well, I want to stick to some of those interesting stories since you were a child. Take us back to Detroit. You were four years old. I'm not quite sure how much you can remember about that moment. I'm sure you remember your grandfather very well, but what happened?

CHAVEZ: Well, we were in front -- our family was sent to Detroit, Michigan, to work on the grape boycott, and I was there with my mom and my dad, and a dozen other farm workers and my sister Theresa (ph). And we were out in front of an A&P supermarket, and the police came and told us to leave. And we looked at my parents, and they told us to stay put. And they asked who the picket captain was, and my mom said it's my sister, Theresa. And, you know, they -- the police were taking everybody to jail, so they took, you know, our entire family and my -- and the farm workers to jail as well.

PHILLIPS: And there you are holding the sign. Si se puede, which, of course, we heard for decades throughout your family. Do you remember that moment? Do you remember why you were there? Do you remember your grandfather explaining to you why it was important?

CHAVEZ: You know, it was always very important for my grandfather to have not only myself, but our entire -- my entire 31 other cousins involved in the farm worker movement. And, you know, we joined him on so many different marches and rallies.

And he used to tell us, you know, in this family we don't have family picnics, but we have family pickets because the entire family would be, you know, on the line or at a march or handing out leaflets in front of a supermarket.

PHILLIPS: And from four years old to your adult life -- you were arrested not long ago. I saw the picture on your Web site. Give me a little background.

CHAVEZ: Well, you know, another lesson that my grandfather taught us was that we had to show solidarity with different unions. And so here in Los Angeles, I had the opportunity to be arrested with the hotel workers during their campaigns, and also with the janitor workers when they were protesting one of the defense companies over some of the lack of medical insurance that they were providing to their workers.

Also, you know, during the big United Food and Commercial Workers strike, I had the opportunity to show solidarity, once again, with the workers there and be arrested with them. And it's just something in our family that many of us have done.

You know, every time we're going to, you know, get arrested, we call the matriarch of our family, my grandmother Helen Chavez, and tell her, and she's always very excited and very encouraging.

PHILLIPS: I definitely want to talk about Helen some more, because I know abuelita has been very influential in your life. But what's interesting about that recent picture of you being arrested, it reminds me of the story that you tell about being with your grandfather, and he didn't want you to stay at the Plaza Hotel. Am I getting this story right? And then ...

CHAVEZ: That's right.

PHILLIPS: OK, tell the story. This is ...

CHAVEZ: Well, we were actually at a -- he was invited to speak at a conference, when -- I think I was about 15 years old, and my sister and I accompanied him to New York. And on the plane ride over, he asked us -- you know, we were looking through his itinerary, and we noticed that the conference is putting him up in, I believe, it was the Park Plaza Hotel, but a very fancy hotel in New York City.

And, of course, my sister and I being teenagers wanted to stay in the hotel, but my grandfather had a strict policy. He would say that no matter where you went all across the United States, we could find a supporter, and we could stay at their house and save the conference or the labor union or whoever it was bringing into speak, save them money.

And, so, you know, we begged my grandfather the entire way. We wanted to stay in this fancy hotel, and so finally he gives in. So we pull up to the hotel, and there's a picket line of hotel workers out there. And so my grandfather said out of the car, out of the car. And so my sister and I, you know, stayed there and walked the line with the rest of the hotel workers.

PHILLIPS: So he made you join them and walk the line?

CHAVEZ: Absolutely, absolutely.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Now, your grandmother, Helen. You talk about being inspired, of course, by your grandfather, but you know the old saying, behind every great man, an even greater woman. We're seeing a beautiful picture actually of your grandmother and your grandfather with Kennedy right now. Tell me about her.

CHAVEZ: You know, my grandmother has always sort of stayed in the background, but I'll tell you this. If it wasn't for her, I don't believe my grandfather would have been as successful as he was. It was my grandmother who had to explain to her children why he was going to miss a game or a school play. It was my grandmother who went to go work back in the fields when my grandfather began organizing farm workers.

And it was my grandmother who, you know, comforted over 40,000 people when they came to pay their respects to my grandfather. And I remember her telling us that we can't cry, that we have to be strong for the farm workers that they need to know that this is a movement that's going to continue even though my grandfather is not with us anymore. And to this day she continues to, you know, inspire not just myself, but all 31 of her grandchildren.

PHILLIPS: Well, you have truly grown up in this movement, a movement that we are seeing right now. Protests all across the country. There's two questions that I want to ask you, as you look at everything that's happened, especially within the past five days or so.

My first question is, is there anything that saddens you about what you are seeing happening right now?

CHAVEZ: No, I think, you know, the big march that we saw here just to see so many people energized around an issue that's going to -- you know, around this House proposed bill that would criminalize our moms and our dads and our aunts and uncles. You know, to see people out there marching is exactly in the spirit of Cesar Chavez and the Lotus work.

And then, you know, to see the students out there, you know, marching out of fear, but also out of hope that they can protect their moms and their dads and their aunts and their uncles. It gives us a lot of hope and...

PHILLIPS: Well, did your dad support illegal immigration? There's been a lot -- or your grandfather support illegal immigration? Because there's a lot of back and forth that has been going on. As you know, his name has been used quite a bit lately.

CHAVEZ: Right. You know, for the last 40 years the United Farm Workers have been on the forefront of protecting undocumented farm workers. I mean, as you know, many farm workers, you know, that work in the fields now 80 percent plus don't have documentation to be in this country, and for the last 40 years the United Farm Workers has protected the rights from everything from pesticide protection to wage to medical benefits for, you know, not only legal farm workers, but undocumented farm workers as well.

PHILLIPS: I'm going to ask you to stay with us. We have got to take a quick break. We want to come back because I want to get your response to something that James Sensenbrenner, Republican House Judiciary chairman, had to say today. Christine, stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: And we're talking to Christine Chavez, of course, the granddaughter of the legendary Cesar Chavez. She's running for a seat in the California assembly. And I wanted to get you to respond to a recent interview that James Sensenbrenner had about illegal immigration. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), HOUSE JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN: They'll flood our schools. Our health care system will collapse, and our social services system will end up being overtaxed. And we've got to get control of our borders because if we don't, we're going to see our economy collapse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Christine?

CHAVEZ: Well, I believe, you know, we also do need enforcement, but we can't do it with just enforcement alone. The United Farm Workers have sponsored an ag jobs bill that would essentially put 500,000 hardworking farm workers, farm workers that feed this nation on a path towards earned legalization. And to criminalize people that are only here to work is ridiculous.

PHILLIPS: Christine Chavez, we're going to follow the race. We suer appreciate your time today.

CHAVEZ: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: It was a pleasure to meet you.

CHAVEZ: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, riding the rails in a desperate bid to reach the United States. A closer look at the passengers aboard the train of death. Details when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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