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Tapes of Emergency Calls from 9/11 Released; Twisters Start Fires in Kansas; French President Backs Controversial Jobs Bill
Aired March 31, 2006 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: From the CNN world headquarters here in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen. Kyra Phillips has the day off.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: And live in B Control, I'm Tony Harris. LIVE FROM starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: World Trade Center just blew up, the whole center?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that's what they say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My God, my God. This little (ph) airplane crash over here, this fellow injured. Oh, lord. It just makes me feel so bad I can't take it. Of course, I can. Oh, baby. I've got another call. But I'll (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in one moment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope that thing's right (ph), because it should be -- an explosion (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We'd feel it, too. OK, let me see something. Stay on the line?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They hung up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Pleas for help from inside the World Trade Center and those who heard them, just made public. About 130 chilling 911 calls from that September morning four and a half years ago.
CNN's Mary Snow has been listening.
And Mary, what are these tapes telling us? They are quite chilling.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are, Betty. And over and over again you hear calls like the one you just heard of operators also fielding calls, just getting inundated on the morning of September 11, trying to keep people calm. One of the things we keep hearing these operators say to callers calling in, to sit tight, to get near vents, to keep breathing, to stay away from the smoke, saying that help would be on the way.
Now, these are more than eight hours of audiotape released today by the city of New York, this after a nearly four-year legal battle. And on these tapes, you will only hear the voices of operators. The city decided that it was too painful to release the victims on these calls, that it was up to the families to decide whether or not to release their voices. But you'll see on many of these calls these operators trying to keep people staying calm.
This call, we'll take a listen to one that was placed to the fire department at about 9:02 on the morning of September 11.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are no firefighters here. We are civilians.
What do you think is -- no, I can not do that. We're getting millions of other calls, sir. All I can tell you to do is stay near the window, stay low, keep a towel by the door.
OK, if you feel that your life is in danger, do what you must do, OK?
I can't give you any more advice than that.
Just remain calm, OK? We'll be there shortly.
I'm talking about (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We've got a lot of calls coming.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SNOW: And Betty, the spaces that you hear, obviously, are the voices of victims who were calling 911. Of course, their voices had been erased from these tapes that have been made public today.
NGUYEN: Mary, 28 of the voices have been identified of the victims.
SNOW: Right.
NGUYEN: How are families reacting to the fact that these tapes have been released?
SNOW: You know, it's all across the board. You will get one major reaction, and that is that it's very painful to hear these voices. But there is division among some of the families that have been identified.
Let me also point out that of the 28 voices, one of those voices was the voice of a survivor.
But the families -- some have decided that they don't want to listen to the tapes. But there are some families who have made the tapes public and have given them to the press.
One of the families was the Hanley family. Chris Hanley was in the North Tower. That was the first tower that was hit, and his call was one of the first calls placed to 911. He was as a conference and his family said that they were very -- after listening to it, they said it was very painful, but they were very proud of the way he handles himself. And we have a short excerpt of that tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire Department 408. Where's the fire?
CHRIS HANLEY, 9/11 VICTIM: Yes. Hi, I'm on the 106th floor of World Trade Center. We just had an explosion up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What building are you in, sir? One or two?
HANLEY: That's One World Trade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit tight. Do not leave, OK? There's a fire or an explosion or something in the building, all right. I want you to stay where you are.
HANLEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're coming up to get you.
HANLEY: I can see the smoke coming up from outside the windows down...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We're on the way.
HANLEY: Sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're on the way, sir.
HANLEY: Please hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just keep the windows open if you can open up the windows and just sit tight. It's going to be awhile, because there's a fire going on downstairs.
HANLEY: We can't open the windows unless we break them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Just sit tight. Just sit tight. We're on the way.
HANLEY: All right. Please hurry.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SNOW: Now, Chris Hanley's remains were never found, and Betty, some of the other families we spoke with, one gentleman, his brother died in the World Trade Center. He said that he does not want to hear the tapes. Other family members did, so they did get them. But he said it was just too painful and that he felt that it was time to move on.
But there has been, as we mentioned, nine families who were involved in a lawsuit to release these tapes. They say that it's important to get the full story, and they want them to be made public.
NGUYEN: Let's talk about that. Because you know, listening to that, Mary, I got to tell you, I don't know Chris Hanley, but to hear his voice, it puts you right there in the moment. And especially for those families who really can't handle this, just because it was so painful, what do they say is the purpose of this is all about?
SNOW: Yes, I mean, everybody, no matter how they feel about this, said that it's very painful and that hearing these tapes brings back the morning of September 11 all over again.
The families who have wanted to get these tapes released say that they feel it's a piece of history that needs to be told. They acknowledge the pain, but they also say that their real purpose is to get information about how the city responded, how the emergency departments responded to these calls coming in.
Because some have claimed that the city was not prepared to handle this, and they say they don't want to point fingers, but learn lessons from what happened on the morning of September 11, should, God forbid, there be another attack, that perhaps there can be lessons learned so that there is not a repeat of this. And they say that is their main purpose in getting a real handle on how the city responded.
And also, we're going to be hearing from some of those families this afternoon. They're going to be speaking publicly.
NGUYEN: When that happens, we're going to take it to you live. Mary Snow in New York, thank you for that update -- Tony.
SNOW: Sure.
HARRIS: Well, Betty, those tapes are yet another reminder of a day will never Americans will never forget. The voices we're hearing, for the most part, are first-responders, except in this case. Here's CNN's Soledad O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANLEY: I'm on the 106th floor of the World Trade Center. We just had an explosion on the -- on the, like 105th floor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 106th floor?
HANLEY: Yes.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING" (voice-over): A calm call for help, just minutes after the first airplane strikes the North Tower of the World Trade Center. It's September 11, and Chris Hanley was one of the first to get through to 911.
HANLEY: We have a conference up here. There's about 100 people up here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your last name?
HANLEY: Hanley. H-A-N-L-E-Y.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: H-A-N...
HANLEY: We have smoke, and it's pretty bad.
O'BRIEN: The police dispatcher then connects him to the fire department. After six rings and 44 seconds, the call finally goes through.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire Department 408. Where's the fire?
HANLEY: Yes. Hi, I'm on the 106th floor of the World Trade Center. We just had an explosion up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What building are you in, sir? One or two?
HANLEY: That's One World Trade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit tight. Do not leave, OK? There's a fire or an explosion or something in the building, all right. I want you to stay where you are.
HANLEY: Yes. I can see the smoke coming up from outside the windows down...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We're on the way.
HANLEY: Sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're on the way, sir.
HANLEY: Please hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just keep the windows open if you can open up windows and just sit tight. It's going to be awhile, because there's a fire going on downstairs.
HANLEY: We can't open the windows unless we break them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Just sit tight. All right. Just sit tight. We're on the way.
HANLEY: All right. Please hurry.
O'BRIEN: New York City notified the families of 27 other victims about 911 calls. Those tapes are being released today, without the voices of the victims. Chris Hanley's parents released his entire 911 recording to the "New York Times." They say hearing their son's voice again was difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The memories and the sadness and we're quite amazed that he had so much grace under pressure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a long time and he's been in our hearts right along, and it's kind of painful to hear it again, to hear him, you know, live like that, but I thought he distinguished himself very nicely under a great deal of pressure. I'm proud of him for that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And this one note: Chris Hanley's remains have never been recovered.
And once again we are standing by to hear from some of the 9/11 families from midtown Manhattan. When that happens, we will take you back to New York live.
NGUYEN: Well, Tony, first it was wind, then it was fire. Kansas is reeling from a one-two punch. Severe storms hit the state yesterday, but that was just the beginning.
CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman reports from Hutchinson in south-central Kansas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We came to Kansas to cover twisters. Instead, we're covering fires touched off by a twister.
We're here in Hutchinson, Kansas. This is Reno County in the south-central portion of the state. The twister touched down yesterday afternoon, and it started at least 14 prairie fires, including one right here.
You can see it burned down this shed, but very fortunate for the people that live here, because the people that own the shed live in that house. The fire came right up to their home. Firefighters and the people who live here using their hoses, kept the fire away from burning down their home.
But at least five other houses did burn down in this county. The good news, no serious injuries anywhere in the entire state of Kansas. And there were several tornadoes that touched down in the southeastern corner of the state and the northeastern corner of the state. Also in Nebraska to the north in the suburbs of Omaha, a tornado touched down, but no serious injuries there, either.
But the big problem here was at least 5,000 acres scorched with either a power line that came down or a lightning bolt. Authorities aren't sure, but it was very scary, because there were at least 14 fires simultaneously blazing. And you can see, this fire still going the very next day, but right now, it appears the people who live here are out of danger.
This is Gary Tuchman, CNN, in Hutchinson, Kansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Well, calm water, a dinner cruise, the unlikely makings of a disaster in the Persian Gulf. More than 130 people were on the boat that capsized late yesterday off Bahrain. Only about half survived. Rescuers say they pulled 57 bodies from the water, and 13 people are still unaccounted for. The boat was chartered for a party celebrating a milestone in a major building project in Bahrain's capital. No word on what caused it to tip over.
Straight to Carol Lin now, working on a developing story out of France for us -- Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: That's right, Tony. Paris, France. Right now, the president of France, Jacques Chirac, has just made an announcement that he is, in fact, going to support that new controversial jobs law.
You are looking at the neighborhood of Bastille in central Paris right now, where people are gathering, and probably just getting word that the president is going to support a law that allows French companies to fire anybody without cause under the age of 26.
What the president said was, "Look, we want to create jobs. We want to give young people the opportunity to get training, that they can get better jobs later in the future. They're not going to get those jobs unless French companies are encouraged to hire people."
French companies discouraged from hiring people because of the really strong unions in that country that make firing people so much more difficult. So we're watching as this crowd is gathering.
Tony, the reason why this is such a hot-button issue right now. You saw what happened last Tuesday when police had to come out in the streets, using tear gas and water cannons. There were some estimates that a million people across the country of France came out in the streets to protest this new jobs law.
A sea change in the country right now, Tony, as they're trying to deal with something like 23 percent of young people are unemployed.
HARRIS: That's right.
LIN: So elections are coming up. They feel like they've got to do something, and it looks like he's going to be backing his prime minister, De Villepin, whom he's grooming to be the next president.
HARRIS: Well, Carol, I know you'll be watching that for us. It has the potential -- we saw earlier in the week, as you mentioned, that this got a little bit out of hand. So I'm sure you'll keep an eye on it and let us know as developments warrant. Appreciate it, Carol.
NGUYEN: Well, coming up, one river, two stories, a life saved, others lost. Heroism and horror on the border when LIVE FROM continues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's fine.
HARRIS: And right now we are standing by -- or is the press conference about to begin? Let's take you to New York City now, where we are hearing now from some of the families of 9/11 -- 9/11 victims.
ALEXANDER SANTORA, FATHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: My name is Alexander Santora. I'm the father of Christopher Santora, who died on 9/11. He was a probationary firefighter in Engine 54.
AL FUENTES, RETIRED CAPTAIN, FDNY: My name is Al Fuentes. I'm a retired captain, FDNY.
GLEN CORBETT, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF FIRE SCIENCE, JOHN JAY COLLEGE: Glen Corbett, assistant professor of fire science here at John Jay College here in Manhattan.
NORMAN SIEGEL, ATTORNEY FOR 9/11 FAMILIES: Let me first begin by thanking the law firm of Kramer, Levin, Naftalis and Frankel. They have been for the last couple years pro bono co-counsel with me on this historic case, and the resources that we are -- in this room as well as this morning. Without them, we could not do that.
The partner is Tom Moreland, and his associate Elisa Sennett (ph), and we thank them enormously for their assistance and their support.
Today we received 12 DVDs from the city of New York: tapes and transcripts of the 911 calls made on September 11, 2001. The 911 telephone calls and tapes and transcripts comprise an invaluable historical record of what transpired on September 11, 2001. The family members in this lawsuit with the "New York Times," want to learn all that they can about what happened on September 11 so that they can uncover information, first, regarding the last moments of their loved ones' lives. As you will hear, some of the family members still do not know what happened in those last moments.
But in addition, they believe that disclosure of these materials will provide the public with vital information regarding the management and effectiveness of rescue operations and safety in high- rise buildings such as the World Trade Center. What went wrong, but also what went right that day.
Disclosure will assist and stimulate efforts to build safer buildings and plan more effective rescue operations that, in the event of a future similar terrorist attack, the loss of life will be minimized.
The 911 Commission report states, and I quote, "Although" -- (cell phone ringing) -- I'm against the death penalty except for that.
OK. I'll step back. I quote from the 9/11 Commission report. "Although Americans may be safer, they are not safe. For Americans to be safe, it is crucial to uncover and analyze what transpired on September 11."
As the commission states, we need to look backwards to look forward. Without disclosure of all -- all the information of what actually occurred on September 11, we are in no better position to protect ourselves in the future. What is at stake here is the fundamental right, the fundamental right of citizens to be informed about their government. An open democratic society should opt for openness and access to historical records, and should always, always reject secrecy. Secrecy only invites more questions, alienation and cynicism.
The 911 tapes and transcripts that we've heard, that we've listened to this morning, read the transcripts, and you'll be hearing from the family members with their specific reaction, informs us what the 911 operators relayed to 911 callers.
For example, the 911 operators were not informed that the rooftop rescues were not taking place and, therefore, did not communicate this information to callers, who informed the operators that they intended to ascend to the roof.
Second, some of the 911 calls reveal how long some of the people remained alive.
The 911 tapes clearly demonstrate that the 911 operators were not given a uniform script. Their comments demonstrate their unfamiliarity with the building. Over and over again 911 operators told callers to open the windows. You know, and we know, that you can't open the windows at the World Trade Center.
We listened and read 911 operators' comments and at times they were inconsistent and contradictory. You have generally the mantra by 911 operators saying, "Just sit tight." "Just sit tight." On the other hand, there are 911 operators who said, "Get out of the building as soon as you can," and some who said, "Ascend to upper stairs."
For the future, we need a protocol in place, someone in government, when God forbid something like this happens again, must be responsible to prepare a uniformed script. Someone must be calling the 911 central command and instructing people in writing what they should be telling people.
Elected officials and politicians should stop doing the media interviews, but remember that they have a responsibility to call the 911 command center and give out the instructions.
We emphasize, and individuals will make this point over and over again so that people do not misinterpret or comments, we do not -- do not criticize the 911 operators. We do not want the 911 operators to become the scapegoats. The fire commissioner last night began this scapegoating process. We will not allow that to happen. What we will criticize and what we want in change is the system that the 911 operators operate in.
Not having the callers' voice takes the guts out of the 911 tapes and transcripts that we received this morning. We will continue our fight to obtain the callers' voices, including perhaps going back to the New York Court of Appeals and asking them to revisit the issue of making the callers' voices public. We lost on that issue 4-3.
Interesting, one of the points that the court of appeals and the decision made was they were concerned about the sensationalism that the media would use the tapes and transcripts for. We feel up to this point that that fear is unfounded. The media has been professional, responsible and sensitive at this point, and if we can create the record that the fear that the court had about the media is not accurate, then maybe we can have them reopen this issue.
But there were gems even in the material that we had. For example, on part 2 from the fire department tapes, a fire dispatcher says the following. "Yes, because they're buildings, big buildings, and they don't think. They don't think, how could you have a building and no way to get out of it? That's ridiculous. Anyway, if you have, like, a chute, like you'd just slide down. That way the people don't have to walk down and more people can get out. Just slide down the chute and you're out the door. That's what they should have. But you can't tell the rich people around here. Have a good day."
On part three, page 37, show the information that's giving out. The 911 operator says on page 37, they're outing the fire. We all know that that wasn't what happened.
On page 38 of the transcript, which is at 9:18 a.m. in the morning, the announcement over the P.A. system in the background says the following, quote, "The condition seems to have subsided," end of quote.
On page 40, though, an operator tells the caller to go upstairs.
These are just some examples of what we read and listened to at this point, again indicating inconsistent and contradictory remarks and that the 911 operators themselves were in the dark.
HARRIS: You've been listening to Norman Siegel, an attorney for some of the 9/11 families.
Let's bring in Mary Snow, a CNN correspondent in New York. And Mary, just in the last couple of moments, Norman Siegel reading from the transcript there, pretty powerful stuff.
SNOW: it is, Tony. And these audio tapes were more than eight hours, so you can imagine that it's taking time to go through them.
But as he pointed out, as Norman Siegel pointed out, and as you can see in these tapes, that there was so much confusion and understandably so, of course, within the course of time.
The one operator at one point early on, among first calls, saying it was believed that there was a helicopter. It was unclear whether there was a helicopter or a plane.
Another call came in saying they thought perhaps that a bomb had gone off.
Many of the callers we told, as we just heard, to sit tight, to get near a vent, and some told to go open a window, and as we also heard, that there were -- there's no way to open a window within the World Trade Center. So, again, the families have been pushing to get this material made public, saying that there are lessons, however painful they are, to hear these final moments and the chaos that was inside the towers, that lessons can be learned.
HARRIS: And Mary, it looks like the push will continue. Norman Siegel alluded to the fact that the legal effort will continue to get the callers' voices made public, as well.
SNOW: That is true, and there are some families, though, who are adamantly against that. They believe that the time has come to move on. There has been closure here.
Also, I do want to point out the New York City police commissioner, Ray Kelly, released a statement a short time ago, saying the release of these tapes remind -- this is his words -- "remind us once again of the remarkable performance of the 911 operators who displaced professionalism and compassion under the most trying of circumstances, often staying on the line with anguished callers until the very end.
HARRIS: OK. CNN's Mary Snow following this story, as it develops and unfolds for us in New York. Mary, we appreciate it.
Just a look ahead for just a moment, when we come back with more of LIVE FROM, we will talk to a family member of one of the 9/11 victims. This is a woman who lost her son on that fateful day. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: President Bush and the leaders of Mexico and Canada have wrapped up their summit in Cancun. Now last hour, Mr. Bush faced reporters alongside Mexico's Vicente Fox and Canada's Stephen Harper. They talked about trade, border security and, of course, immigration.
Mr. Bush has made a guest worker program the centerpiece of his immigration reform plan, though many in his own party object to that. He acknowledged strong feelings on all sides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I expect the debate to bring dignity to America. In recognition that America is a land of immigrants and people ought to be treated with respect and this debate ought to be a debate that does not pit neighbor against neighbor, that focuses on three elements. One is that we are a nation of laws and, therefore, must enforce our laws, and that includes enforcing the laws of people coming into our country illegally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: While the debate rages in Washington and leaders confer in Mexico, a group of volunteers is taking matters into their own hands. They call themselves the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. You may have heard about them by now. They patrol U.S. borders and report suspected illegal immigrants to Border Patrol officers.
Now Chris Simcox is the group's president. He joins us from Phoenix. We want to thank you for being with us.
Well, that summit wrapped up, as you know, just a bit earlier today. Do you think there was enough push to make sure that the U.S. borders are safe, that they are shoring up those borders to make sure that illegal immigrants aren't crossing into them.
CHRIS SIMCOX, MINUTEMEN CIVIL DEFENSE CORPS: No, Clearly our government is more interested in rewarding illegal behavior. They've got the cart before the horse. We need to secure that border. And those stark reminders of September 11th should remind us that there are criminals and terrorists entering this country every day, in the form of rapists, murders.
And the FBI just reported today of breaking up a Hezbollah smuggling operation in Mexico. Those are serious threats to national security. The president has it backwards, and this month of April, 7,000 American citizens will do the job that President Bush refuses to do.
NGUYEN: Now you're saying rewarding them for breaking the law. You're referring to what some lawmakers are calling amnesty, if this guest worker program flies, correct?
SIMCOX: Absolutely. It's more like sham-nesty. Senator McCain should be shamed and run out of office, or any elected official should be, for siding with lawbreakers and refusing to enforce the laws of this nation, they have no business holding elected office.
NGUYEN: All right, well, let me ask you this. OK, if you're not for this guest worker program, what do you do about the 11 million immigrants in this country? What do you do about that problem?
SIMCOX: What you do is you secure the borders in the name of national security and public safety. You enforce the laws. You cut off the magnet; you cut off jobs. People will self-deport. They'll go home. Then what we start doing, once we secure the border, then we come up with a guest worker program for those who are waiting in line in the countries of origin that they come from. We reward them, and that's an incentive for people to go home, get in the back of the line and come in just as....
NGUYEN: All right, but what about the 11 million illegal immigrants inside the United States? What do you do? Do you round them up? How do you find them? How do you go about transporting them back? I mean, what's the solution here?
SIMCOX: You know, they will self-deport. When we start enforcing the laws, which by the way, it's a class-five felony to hire an illegal alien in this country.
NGUYEN: Do you think they're going to pack up and leave?
SIMCOX: We should hold employers... NGUYEN: Absolutely. They'll have no choice. They can't get social services. They can't get a job. They should start saving their money, return home, get in line and wait for a realistic program that should be two years down the line. First, we secure that border.
SIMCOX: All right, let me let you take a listen to Christine Neumann-Ortiz. Now she organized a protest in Milwaukee last week, and this is what she has to say about the current situation. Take a listen for a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE NUEMANN-ORTIZ, PRES., VOICES DE LA FRONTERA: This is a modern day civil rights movement. And there is a new form of racism that is being promoted at the highest levels, and that is -- and it's not welcoming. It is about a new kind of racism, with citizen versus immigrant. And the reality is that we all can agree that this immigration system is broken, and it's broken because we have a global economy, we have trade agreements that have meant we have open borders for U.S. businesses, U.S. capital, U.S. goods, but we have very restrictionist policies on labor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Chris, let me get your reaction. Is this a new form of racism?
SIMCOX: The racism argument is old and tired. This is about rule of law, public safety and national security. We have a situation where hundreds of thousands of people are marching in the streets flying flags for foreign countries, demanding that our federal government not enforce the laws. That's a recipe for anarchy. In fact, many of those groups making racism claims are also planning on civil unrest if we don't reward them and give them amnesty. That's anarchy.
NGUYEN: And one of the points of contention is this bill that's passed the house, the one in which says if you're an illegal immigrant, you're a felon basically, and if you help illegal immigrants you could face criminal charges as well. Is that the only way to fix this problem, or is it simply too harsh, as you've see thousands of protesters in the streets saying that it frankly is?
SIMCOX: Well, we don't need new laws. And that's something that so many of us who are pragmatic and logical about this, we don't need laws. The laws that we have on the books now make an illegal immigrant a felon, as well as anyone who hires them, or transports them or houses them. They're already felons. What good will it do to create new laws? Let's enforce the laws we have now on the employers. Let's secure the border to stop the flood. There are record numbers of people coming across the border right now, because Senator McCain, and Senator Kennedy and the entire Senate just said we're not enforcing our laws. We've already apprehended over half a million people coming into this country since the first of the year. There's a virtual tidal wave of people coming because our government refuses to enforce the laws. NGUYEN: Let me ask you this quickly. The Minutemen movement has decided to enforce the laws themselves. They're patrolling those borders and reporting illegal immigrants who cross to the local authorities. But you're doing something new, and that starts tomorrow. Tell me about that.
SIMCOX: Well, we don't enforce the laws. What we're doing is we're filling the breach. We're taking jobs that President Bush and the Senate refuse to create. We need jobs for Border Patrol. In fact, we need the National Guard on the border. We're down there to help the good men and women of Border Patrol who've been abandoned by the federal government and will provide them the resources to do the job that they took an oath to do, unlike the president and the members of the Senate. We're out there to report suspicious activity, to be eyes and ears for Border Patrol and show America and Washington, D.C. that we have the will to secure the border and we'll remain on that border until we're relieved from duty by the National Guard or U.S. military.
NGUYEN: And starting tomorrow you're going to create this month- long campaign along the border.
SIMCOX: Thirty days, 24/7 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California. Also along the northern border, and we also have a coastal watch group in Florida. This is a civil defense movement. We're filling the breach that the president and Senate refuse to fill in providing for homeland security. You have the largest port of entry into this nation that is controlled by a foreign government and criminal cartels. That's a recipe for disaster.
NGUYEN: Chris Simcox, president of Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. we want to thank you for joining us today. Thanks so much.
SIMCOX: Thank you.
NGUYEN: Well, there's more on the summit in Mexico and the Bush administration's position on illegal immigration. That is ahead right here on LIVE FROM, so don't go anywhere.
Plus, another group's quest for the American Dream, sometimes leads to a nightmare. Illegal immigrants in Chinatown, coming up on LIVE FROM.
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TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S./Mexican border is many things to many people. It's an entry, an exit, a gateway, sometimes a graveyard, a place of courage and sometimes cruelty, as our Jeanne Meserve discovered on the Rio Grande in Texas.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to have three that came out of that 14-14. They're already across the drag road. JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Every day border patrol cameras help catch illegal immigrants crossing the Rio Grande at Eagle Pass, Texas. But some days they capture much more. Events that tell us about the best within us and the worst.
ISMAEL MARTINEZ, BORDER CROSSER, (through translator): Here's the point that we got into the water. And we crossed through here.
MESERVE: Ismael Martinez, his mother, his sister and three others wadded across the Rio Grande to the United States in the early morning darkness of September 23, 2004, to join Ismael's father who had a job milking cows on a dairy farm in Wisconsin. Border patrol cameras saw them and agents found them.
STEPHEN F. WHITE, MARTINEZ FAMILY LAWYER: They came out, all six of them and prepared to be arrested. But that's not what happened.
MESERVE: In a deposition, one of the agents says he told the Mexicans to go back to their effing country. The Mexican's say they were ordered back into the water at a deep stretch of the river.
Could you swim?
MARTINEZ: No.
MESERVE: Could your mom swim?
MARTINEZ: No.
MESERVE: Could your sister swim?
MARTINEZ: No.
MESERVE: In a videotaped statement, a Mexican who was in the group says they asked the border patrol for help but the agents instead threw rocks.
GERARDO OJEDA, BORDER CROSSER, (through translator): Because of the rocks they were throwing, the women started panicking. And not being able to feel the bottom of the river they became desperate and were grabbing on to us trying to save themselves. The river's current kept taking us further out.
MESERVE: The border patrol's own infrared cameras captured the women's struggle. Eventually they disappeared beneath the water.
MARTINEZ: My mom and sister, I couldn't see them.
MESERVE: They drowned, along with another woman in the group.
In depositions, the border patrol agents deny ordering the Mexicans back into the river or throwing rocks. And an investigation by the Department of Homeland Security did not result in any disciplinary action.
ALAN LANGFORD, U.S. BORDER PATROL: There was no findings of misconduct. To the best of my knowledge, it's been presented to the U.S. attorney and he declined prosecution. There was no evidence indicating that it occurred.
MESERVE: But Ismael's father is suing for $240 million. The case is pending.
WHITE: Because I don't think anybody should be put in the circumstance that they were put in. It shouldn't happen anywhere. It certainly shouldn't happen in the United States.
MESERVE: The drownings and the alleged misconduct are horrific, but in this very same stretch of river, a tale of heroism and it happened right there.
Border Patrol Agent Daryl Lee was on patrol last February 22nd when again border patrol cameras saw illegal immigrants entering the U.S. When Lee approached them, the immigrants went back in the water and one got in trouble.
DARYL LEE, U.S. BORDER PATROL: They came to a point where he took his last little breath. He had kind of struggled up, his face barely broke the water this time and he just kind of bubbled a little bit and went down and that's when I made my decision, you know, that he wasn't going to -- probably not coming back up.
MESERVE: Video from boarder patrol cameras show Daryl Lee diving into the water, swimming towards a man he could no longer see. And then a bubble. A successful rescue.
LEE: And I just felt that if I couldn't live with myself if I stood by and didn't do everything within my ability to save another human life.
MESERVE: One river, two stories, that turn a lens on us as well as our neighbors.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Eagle Pass, Texas.
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HARRIS: And Jeanne tells us Ismael Martinez, whose mother and sister drowned, is back in Mexico. His dad has returned there, too. They say if they try to cross into the U.S. again, they'll go overland.
NGUYEN: Well, President Bush and the leaders of Mexico and Canada have wrapped up their summit in Cancun. Earlier today, Mr. Bush faced reporters alongside Mexico's Vincente Fox and Canada's Stephen Harper.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more on the administration's plan, and she joins us now live with that.
Hi, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Betty. President Bush is leaving Cancun. He has left. He's headed to Crawford, Texas -- from Cancun, Mexico, to Crawford. But of course President Bush wrapping up that two-day summit with, you mentioned, of course, Vincente Fox, the president of Mexico, and of course Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
After this convention, of course, the big question what is next, what have they actually completed during this? No major news, no major resolutions. Some broad statements about agreements on trade and security for North America, but still the immigration reform issue, the legislation on the table, very hot issue.
President Bush essentially speaking to two audiences, his Mexican host, assuring him that there is a way for workers to work in the United States on a temporary basis and perhaps provide some sort of path to citizenship. The other group, of course, Americans, specifically conservative Republicans, who have been very concerned about border security.
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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I expect the debate to bring dignity to America, in recognition that America is a land of immigrants and people ought to be treated with respect. And this debate ought to be a debate that does not pit neighbor against neighbor.
It focuses on three elements. One is that we are a nation of laws, and therefore must enforce our laws. And that includes enforcing the laws of people coming into our country illegally.
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MALVEAUX: And, of course, the other two elements that the president had mentioned is the interior enforcement; that is, not hiring illegal immigrants in the first place. And of course his guest worker program.
The big question here, Betty, of course, is whether or not he has satisfied his critics, conservatives who, of course, take a look at his program, the guest worker program, say it's an amnesty program.
The president was asked very clearly, point-blank, whether or not he would veto any legislation that didn't include the guest worker program. He dodged the question, saying, well, I'm assuming it's going to be a comprehensive bill. But Betty, I'll tell you, Republicans who I've spoken to say they're not even sure there is going to be a bill, that it's just too contentious and that they are certainly worried about those mid-term elections -- Betty.
NGUYEN: So much debate surrounding all this. Suzanne Malveaux, we'll be watching it. Thank you for that -- Tony.
HARRIS: Betty, coming up, LIVE FROM gets back to basics.
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SHARON STONE, ACTRESS: Is this where we're going to do it?
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HARRIS: Wow! Take that back to "Basic Instinct 2," Sharon Stone going for the jugular again, but will critics beat her to the punch? Find out in a few.
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HARRIS: You ready for this?
NGUYEN: I'm ready, bring it on.
HARRIS: Hi, Betty, good to see you.
NGUYEN: I'm kind of scared of it, though.
HARRIS: Hi!
NGUYEN: Yes, finally you join me over here.
HARRIS: Everything all right? Anything I should know?
NGUYEN: All's well.
HARRIS: OK. Time to lock up the ice picks. Sharon Stone, back as a psycho siren in "Basic Instinct 2." I did say that, psycho siren. But moviegoers, well, could they be the real victims this time around?
CNN's Sibila Vargas samples some opinion.
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SHARON STONE, ACTRESS: Do I make you uncomfortable?
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fourteen years after Sharon Stone made more than a few people uncomfortable with her scandalous leg-crossing scene in "Basic Instinct"...
STONE: It's nice.
VARGAS: The actress is hoping you'll find her hotter than ever as the psychopathic seductress Catherine Tramell in "Basic Instinct 2."
STONE: Oh, is this where we're going to do it?
VARGAS: And with more than a decade since Stone's show stopping moment, the question is are fans ready for round two?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she going to cross her legs or uncross her legs? That's really the big question.
VARGAS: Are you curious to see that leg-crossing scene, or... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's all right. I think I'll pass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's like 60, 70, now, so a little past my age range.
VARGAS: Well, for the record, Stone is actually 48 years old.
STONE: This is what the 40s look like and it ain't so bad.
VARGAS: "Newsweek"'s Sean Smith told me Stone's cinematic follow-up comes with a history as dramatic as the movie itself.
STONE: How do you picture it, Doctor?
VARGAS: In 2001, the actress sued the producers because they had failed to make the sequel by an established deadline.
SEAN SMITH, SENIOR WRITER, "NEWSWEEK": She sued them for $100 million, saying in addition to the money that she wasn't paid that she had gotten in shape and had gone to costume fittings and had turned down other roles, and so she had lost all this potential income.
VARGAS: Ultimately, they settled out of court, but not before a handful of leading men like Viggo Mortensen had turned the role down.
SMITH: Aaron Eckhart was offered $6 million and still didn't want to do it. The studio wanted Benjamin Bratt, but Sharon was concerned that he was too young and that he would make her look too old.
VARGAS: Early reviews have panned the sequel and Smith jokingly refers to Stone's performance as being "so over the top that it elevates the bad movie in a must-see diva extravaganza."
SMITH: She makes "Mommie Dearest" look small. At 48, to look like that and move like that and to act like that is pretty remarkable.
VARGAS: Of course, for skeptics who think otherwise, there's always this alternative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Want to see sexy? All right? Uh oh.
VARGAS: Sibila Vargas, CNN, Los Angeles.
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NGUYEN: All right. That wasn't sexy, but Stone 48? Looking great.
Hey, coming up, some timely information for most Americans. And you want to listen up, Indiana, because this year, we mean you, too.
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