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Thousands Protest New French Labor Law; Congressman Tom DeLay Gives Up Reelection Bid; Deciding Moussaoui's Fate

Aired April 04, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And this just in to CNN -- let's take you to some pictures just into CNN of two (INAUDIBLE) levees broke earlier today.
This is in the Sacramento area of California, Sacramento County. The -- the one levee that broke flooded a trailer park that was nearby in Merced, California, just sort of wiped out, flooded a farmland in the Sacramento Valley -- heavy rains continuing in that area of Northern California.

This is a breach that we're talking about on the Black Rascal Creek, where it comes together with the Bear Creek. About 50 homes, we understand, are threatened in Merced.

And a private levee -- the second levee that broke was a private levee built by a farmer east of Highway 99.

Want to bring in Jacqui Jeras to -- to help us sort of sort this out.

And, Jacqui, we're seeing these levee breaches because of all of the rain that is falling and has been falling throughout California.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, absolutely.

I believe this is the Consumnes River that we're looking at there. That's in southern Sacramento County. And a levee in this area right along that river broke in January because of the heavy rains. So, this is the second time that they are having to deal with this.

The good news, on the Consumnes River, is that this is agricultural land, of course, not good news for those farmers, but it is not really threatening any people or any homes at this time. The second levee break is in Merced. About we are reporting that a trailer park is inundated there, and about 50 homes are being threatened. So, that's a serious situation.

Rainfall rates have been pretty heavy today, in fact, on the range of about a quarter-of-an-inch to a half-of-an-inch per hour. And the ground is very saturated. On top of all of this -- check it out -- we have got a watch box in California. This is a severe thunderstorm watch that we're especially concerned about some hail with these thunderstorms, as well as some gusty winds, in addition to the flood threat that we're already dealing with. I will zoom in here into the Sacramento Valley, and show you just to the north and east of Modesto, this line of storms we are concerned about producing some hail as it pushes on through -- no warnings at this time.

I also want to show you one other picture here that's going on, other flooding concerns, while we're on the topic of flooding here, Tony. There, you can see the additional rainfall that we're expecting across California, tomorrow, could see as much as two to five inches.

Into the mountainous area, well, the Red River Valley, up there in the Dakotas and into Minnesota, is also dealing with a flooding situation. In Fargo, just south of there, we got this picture in from NOAA. And I want to zoom in for you -- the river already well out of its banks, but not expected to crest until tomorrow morning at 20 feet above flood stage.

Check this out. If you will look real closely, these are cars which are lined up and blocked off on a roadway, can't get out on either way. And, there, you can see a home stuck out in the middle of everything, completely surrounded. So, hopefully, those people have been evacuated. So, that's another flooding situation we're monitoring very closely for you.

HARRIS: Wow.

OK, Jacqui, we appreciate it. Thank you.

JERAS: Mmm-hmm.

HARRIS: Man.

Politics and jobs once again a powder keg in France. Thousands poured into the street for a fifth national day of protest against a new labor law.

CNN's Jim Bittermann brings us the scene in Paris.

Jim, good to see you.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony.

In fact, things are pretty quiet now. The square behind me, the Place D'Italie, which is in the southeast corner of Paris, has now been pretty much completely cleared. There are a few people around just kind of milling around, and a few people still egg -- trying to egg on the police a little bit, but, in fact, at this hour, most of the protesters here -- who were here earlier are now gone.

They have been dispersed by the police, who kind of herded them down some of the main avenues which run off the square, and herded them away into the city. So, I think that, pretty much, now, things have quieted down here. You can never be too sure, after something like this that got together so many young people. They could perhaps turn up at some other part of town, but, at the moment, anyway, things from this perspective are pretty calm -- Tony. HARRIS: And -- and, Jim, a little surprising how things developed through the course of the day. At the beginning of the day, it -- the protest had a bit of a celebratory note. And, then, near the end here, as it was clear that it was time to bring this to a close, things turned, at -- at times, rather dramatically.

BITTERMANN: This is something that has become almost a bad habit here on the various protest demonstrations that take place, particularly lately over this unemployment law.

There have been joining in with the protesters in the crowd and infiltrating, if you will, with them these folks who are just bent on causing trouble. Some of them may also be concerned about the issue. But the fact is, what they really seem to be interested is -- is going and confronting the police.

And, during the afternoon today, a number of our people were out in the streets, a couple of our cameramen and reporters and whatnot, who saw, in the crowds, a number of these people who looked like they are bent on causing trouble. And, sure enough, when they came here to this square at the end of the parade -- the end of the demonstration route, that's when the trouble occurred. They started throwing rocks and bottles and whatnot at police.

And the police basically are under instructions, in the last couple of these demonstrations, to clear the end point, clear the -- wherever the end point of the demonstration is, to clear it at a certain time of day. About 15 minutes before that time took place, the police moved in and started clearing the square. And that's when there were a lot of rocks and bottles.

And some tear gas was used, but -- but, basically, not as bad, I don't think -- I don't think the confrontations were anywhere near as bad as what took place a week ago, when they had to bring out water cannon and whatnot to finally clear the square.

HARRIS: That was a -- yes, that was a bizarre scene last week.

CNN's Jim Bittermann for us in Paris -- and, Jim, thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you.

Visit northwestern Tennessee, and you will see miles upon miles of debris, homes, schools, businesses reduced to rubble by the storms that raked the state on Sunday.

The governor took a look himself a few hours ago and later spoke with CNN's Jonathan Freed, who joins us from the hard-hit town of Newbern.

And, OK, Jonathan, walk us through that scene, that picture behind you.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi. Good afternoon, Tony.

Absolutely. This is, in many respects, based on the traveling around in this area that we have done in the last couple of days, very much the -- the signature wreckage of this area. This used to be the United Methodist Church. And, up there, you could see where the platform was.

Tony, there are some twisted metal chairs left over from where the choir most likely sat. And down here, on this level where I am, would have been the chapel, where the congregation would have assembled.

And, if you look around here, we're right in the middle of the path that that tornado, on Sunday evening, carved, roughly 20 miles long. We're about halfway along -- along that path. And the tornado was going about 200 miles an hour, Tony. It was between a quarter- and a half-a-mile wide, and it just plowed right through here, taking everything with it.

All you can see down there are slabs of homes, wreckage strewn everywhere.

Now, one of the people who was right in the middle of it all and got some warning is a local horse farmer. He has about 100 horses, but he lost 20 of them to the storm. But he didn't lose himself or his wife or his grandchild, because they were quick-thinking, and they remembered to get to somewhere safe in the interior of the house. That was the bathroom.

And let's listen now to how he describes what happened after that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUD CUNE, TORNADO SURVIVOR: But felt -- I felt the house shutter and move. I thought it shook it on the foundation a little bit. I had no idea, until I opened my eyes, that -- that we was looking at the sky.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED: He said that, when he came outside, the house was gone and that the highest part of the house that was remaining were the walls of that bathroom.

And he was just thankful that they were OK in there and that at least that they had the foresight to get in there, the way that you're told to do.

Now, earlier today, Tony, we looked up and we saw a three- helicopter formation going by here. That was the governor of Tennessee, having a chance to really see the damage for himself for the first time.

And one of the things -- I had a chance to talk to him. And I asked him if it is helpful -- he, of course, had seen the damage on television. I asked him if it was helpful to him, in terms of motivating him to -- to take various courses of action, make decisions about how he is going to respond to the aftermath of a storm like this, if it is helpful to see it firsthand. He said definitely. And he said that, even more than that, that he's occasionally surprised by how much people on the ground appreciate the fact that he takes the time to come out. He said he wouldn't assume that they would, but he says it's always warming for him, anyway, to get that kind of a reception -- Tony.

HARRIS: CNN's Jonathan Freed for us in Newbern, Tennessee -- Jonathan, we appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, the Hammer is hanging it up. Have you heard this today? Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay says he's leaving Congress behind, moving to Virginia, moving on to other things. The Republican congressman has been a lightning rod for critics. DeLay and two associates are now facing trial in Texas on a money-laundering charges. DeLay also has been linked to a lobbying scandal. He denies any wrongdoing in both cases. But he says his decision to step down is the right thing to do to his party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R), TEXAS: My loyalty to the Republican Party, indeed, my love to the Republican Party, has played no small part in this decision. Having served under Republican and Democrat control in the House, I know firsthand how important it is for Republicans to maintain their national majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: DeLay says he will leave some time in June. We will keep you posted.

Still ahead: He was the only man in America convicted in connection with 9/11. Now a jury must decide the fate of Zacarias Moussaoui. Should he live or die? Coming up, we will hear from the mother of a passenger aboard one of the planes that fateful day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Now, the jury that said Zacarias Moussaoui is eligible to die for his crimes must now decide whether he should. Jurors go back to court Thursday to hear testimony about whether Moussaoui should receive the death penalty or life in prison. Moussaoui is a confessed al Qaeda conspirator. And he testified he was scheduled to fly a plane into the White House on September 11, 2001. Families of people who were killed on 9/11 are scheduled to testify at his sentencing.

One of the family members the Moussaoui jury will hear from is Alice Hoagland. Her son, Mark Bingham, was a passenger on United Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11. And she will be speaking for Moussaoui's defense.

Alice Hoagland joins us from our San Francisco bureau.

Alice, good to talk to you again.

ALICE HOAGLAND, MOTHER OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: Thank you.

HARRIS: Good to...

HOAGLAND: Thanks for inviting me.

HARRIS: Good to talk to you yesterday on the phone, much better to talk to you from in front of a camera there.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Good to see you.

HOAGLAND: Thank you.

HARRIS: I -- I have to ask the obvious question. You're testifying for the defense.

HOAGLAND: That certainly sounds peculiar, doesn't it?

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: It does sound a little peculiar.

HOAGLAND: I -- I'm glad that I didn't have to testify in the phase one. The jury has done a very good job of determining that Zacarias Moussaoui is indeed eligible for the death penalty.

I was hoping and praying that that would be the case. I -- I applaud the jury for that decision. The phase two now focuses on whether or not he should actually be put to death. My -- my focus then, when I'm asked to testify, will be that I don't want to see this man become a martyr, number one. And, number two, I think that, in America, we have a higher standard to uphold than Zacarias Moussaoui has upheld.

That higher standard is for the sanctity of life. He is a vile and despicable human being, who has demonstrated his hatred for us and his -- his anxiety about killing us. He wants to kill us, in the thousands, if he can. Nonetheless, if we can -- if we can be true to our higher selves and offer him what he did not offer my son and the others on September 11, which is mercy...

HARRIS: Yes.

HOAGLAND: We have already demonstrated that we're a just people. We have put him on trial and let him speak for himself. He has condemned himself out of his own mouth.

Now it's up to us to follow through with that and show mercy to him, keep him alive, but keep him incarcerated.

HARRIS: Alice...

HOAGLAND: OK. Let's talk.

(LAUGHTER) HARRIS: OK. Let's -- let's talk. You laid it out for us. Let's talk about it.

I -- I wonder...

HOAGLAND: OK.

HARRIS: ... if you would feel the same way about this if Moussaoui had an even more direct link to your son's death?

HOAGLAND: Well, it's hard to imagine anybody having a more direct link who still lived through it...

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

HOAGLAND: ... because, originally, although the FBI has backed off this position, they called him the 20th hijacker. You know that there were 19 hijackers. They were -- they were split up into teams of five.

The -- the team that was assigned to Flight 93 appeared to be one man short. There were only four guys on that team. So, the logical assumption is that Moussaoui was intending to be the -- the fifth one. And the truth is, yes, yes, it would -- that -- I -- I don't want to push this now, because I...

HARRIS: No. Go ahead. Go ahead.

HOAGLAND: I -- I have to -- I have to talk myself into this. OK?

HARRIS: Right.

HOAGLAND: We -- we all are a big continuum of urges and emotions. My higher self tells me this is the best direction to go. My lower self argues that it is -- that it is -- that -- that it is the thing to do to put him to death.

And people in my own family will disagree with me. And I -- and I respect everyone's opinion. There are many thousands of people who are affected by the ugliness, such as Moussaoui demonstrates. And I -- I respect all the opinions of the September 11 families.

HARRIS: Alice...

HOAGLAND: I am just expressing mine.

HARRIS: Yes. No, no, no, I appreciate that.

Alice, I -- I'm curious. You had a wonderful answer to this question yesterday. And -- and I'm still curious today, as I think back over your answer yesterday. I want folks to hear it today. Do you believe your son would share your view concerning what the fate of this man should be?

HOAGLAND: Well, Mark Bingham was a many faceted man. He was very hard to pin down. He was -- he was a rugby player. He was a very sweet and gentle guy. He was a gay man. And he had friends from every walk of life, straight, gay, atheist, communist...

(LAUGHTER)

HOAGLAND: ... Catholic, Jewish, Palestinian, and Muslim. He was coming back on Flight 93 to attend the wedding of his good friend Joe Salama, who was a Chi Psi brother and a Muslim.

It -- I don't know what Mark would have told me.

HARRIS: Yes.

HOAGLAND: You tell me what Mark would have told me.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: That's interesting. I -- I -- I have thought about it. I have thought about your response to that.

And -- and, obviously, you -- you have better insights there than I do. But I don't -- I don't know the answer to that.

Let me ask you about the movie that is going to be in theaters, oh, in a couple of weeks, "United 93."

HOAGLAND: "United 93," uh-huh.

HARRIS: A good idea, a bad idea, in your view?

HOAGLAND: I think it's a wonderful idea, because, honestly, anything that keeps the -- the important lessons of September 11 alive and in front of the American people is a valuable thing.

And, furthermore, I have confidence in director Paul Greengrass. He has gone to great lengths to garner the -- the good opinion of the Flight 93 families. And he certainly has mine. Even if Flight 93 did not have the potential for drama and -- and pathos that it does, he would still be able to do a lot with the material.

As it is, there is plenty of material there to work with. There's lots of ugliness. There's lots of tension, lots of bloodshed. But the reason that I think it's going to be good overall is that there's also a story of heroism, how a plucky group of brave people were able to pull it together and, in a very short space of time, use what limited information they had, and made a powerful decision.

They called upon their teamwork, their important sports skills and strength of spirit, and were able to take a vote and run down the aisle and attack attackers in the cockpit and in the cabin.

HARRIS: Alice, I would -- I would love to debate it a little bit with you, but I -- I love your answer, as -- as usual.

It's -- it's great to see you. Thanks for your time.

HOAGLAND: Thank you very much.

Good to talk to you again.

HARRIS: We're going to check the markets when we come back.

The news keeps coming. We will keep bringing it to you -- more LIVE FROM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: A boom in big money is resulting in a record number of American millionaires. British market research firm TNS Financial Services says 8.9 million households had a net worth of $1 million or more in 2005. Wow. The total doesn't include their main home. It doesn't necessarily include champagne wishes and caviar dreams, either.

Most millionaires worked, saved, invested, in hopes of having a good retirement, leaving money to their kids, and giving to charity.

Well, if you are not a millionaire, can you afford to retire well? If your answer is yes, you might want to double-check your balance sheet. A study suggests, workers are out of touch when it comes to saving for their golden years.

CNN's Ali Velshi is live in New York with more.

Ali, good to see you.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't know what the problem is here, Tony. We talk about this all the time.

HARRIS: Yes. You know what it is?

VELSHI: You know...

HARRIS: Do you know what I think it is. I think we -- we are -- we're not aware of exactly how much.

VELSHI: Yes.

HARRIS: What is the number? What is the number that we need?

VELSHI: What -- what you need to retire.

HARRIS: Yes. What do you need?

VELSHI: All right, well, look here. Seventy percent of Americans say they have enough. They say they know what that number is.

HARRIS: Yes.

VELSHI: But most of them don't even know what the number is.

And some big figure, about more than half of Americans, have less than $25,000 saved up.

Now, here's how you work out the math on this, Tony. Let's say you like your life the way it is. You want to live a similar lifestyle. Most folks say that you can live on about two-thirds of what you earn right now. That's because a number of the expenses that you have won't exist in retirement. You will -- you will replace them with other expenses.

So, let's just, roughly, say, 70 percent of what you earn now is what you want in retirement.

HARRIS: OK. OK.

VELSHI: Well, so you have to -- if you wanted to retire today, you would have to have enough to put that money away, spend 70 percent of what you earn, and have that money grow over the next...

HARRIS: Wow. OK.

VELSHI: ... how ever many years you're going to be in retirement.

The thing is that, while most Americans think that life expectancy is in their 70s, the fact is, smart financial planners are telling people to plan to 95. And, unless you have a reason to know that you're not going to live that long, you don't want to be caught holding the bag when you're 85 or 90, because you thought you were going to live until 75.

HARRIS: And -- and here's the -- here's the disappointment of it all.

If you're planning to retire, you want to retire, you have got a whole plan set up for your retirement, you get there and realize, whoa.

VELSHI: You don't have enough.

HARRIS: I can't...

VELSHI: Yes.

HARRIS: ... cover this.

VELSHI: That's absolutely right.

So, let's -- the average American earns about 40,000 bucks, right?

HARRIS: Yes.

VELSHI: So, if you're the average American and you want to live a sort of a lifestyle that you're accustomed to over the next 30 years -- let's say you want to plan properly to live for that -- you would have to have half-a-million in the bank account today. And that money would have to continue to invest and grow. And you would take out some of that money and spend it, half-a- million dollars. About half of Americans have $25,000 for retirement.

HARRIS: Well -- well, Ali, what is the problem here? Are they getting poor financial advice?

VELSHI: Well, I think it's...

HARRIS: No financial advice at all?

VELSHI: It's two things.

A lot of people grew up with the idea that there would be pensions. And now that we have 401(k)s and IRAs, we don't manage our money as well as we should. We are not diversified. We follow too many trends.

The -- the other thing is just, we're not good savers. Americans are not savers.

HARRIS: Yes.

VELSHI: We have a negative savings rate. We love to spend, because the money will always come in. And interest rates are low. And we take loans. The fact is, you have to think of retirement as a whole separate department. You have to think of it as a -- as a bill. You have to decide, you're putting away for that.

And Americans just don't do that. If you start good and earlier, Tony...

HARRIS: Yes.

VELSHI: ... you don't have to put away so much money.

It's just that when you get to 40, 50, 55, 60, and then realize you're -- you're -- you're in a pickle, you know?

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: And it's still easier to save now than when you're in retirement.

HARRIS: Right.

Are you in pretty good shape? Because I have -- I have just sort of resigned myself to the fact that I'm just going to have to work until I drop.

VELSHI: Yes. No. I'm -- I'm probably one of those, too.

HARRIS: Yes.

VELSHI: We -- you know, that's part of the option is either working longer. A lot of people get into sort of a business or a home-based business, which you can do a lot of these days. But, fundamentally, when you're 85 or 90 years old, Tony, and maybe you're -- you're healthy enough that you're not dying, but you're not really maybe healthy enough to work, what do you do then?

HARRIS: Yes. What do you do?

VELSHI: What do you cut out of your expenses then?

HARRIS: All right. You're going to...

VELSHI: So, it's serious.

HARRIS: You're going to be back with us at the top of the hour, you know, Ali, to...

VELSHI: Well, markets are going to look OK.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: I will be -- I will be back with you at the -- at the top of the hour...

HARRIS: OK.

VELSHI: ... to tell you about that.

HARRIS: Yes. That's...

VELSHI: So, if you're invested, you're OK.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Yes. OK. Ali, we appreciate it. Thank you.

VELSHI: Good to see you.

HARRIS: We are going to take a break. And we will update you on the situation in Paris, another day, a fifth day, of demonstrations, protests -- pictures from earlier today. It got a bit heated at times, tear gas, pepper spray, as you can see there -- more LIVE FROM right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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