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French Protesters Promise More Activity Until Government Repeals Labor Law; Rwandan Genocide Survivor Shares Story; Investigations Continue in Iraq "Massacre"

Aired April 05, 2006 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Can one million French protesters be denied? That's the question one day after a huge series of strikes and demonstrations that stopped trains in their tracks and shut down the Eiffel Tower. Protesters are promising more of the same unless the government repeals a controversial new labor law.
CNN's European political editor Robin Oakley is monitoring today's developments. Robin, are the protests continuing?

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Just a few wildcat actions in provincial cities today, Fredricka, nothing much in Paris. But the message from the unions and students to France's lawmakers is absolutely clear. Don't fiddle about with the new labor law. Just get rid of the whole thing, or we'll be back on the streets in big numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OAKLEY (voice-over): The government admitted more than a million took part in the latest demonstrations against the hated First Employment Contract Law, or CPE. Students and unions claim three million took to the streets. Emboldened by that, they insisted the new law must not just be amended, as President Chirac has already conceded, but scrapped altogether

BRUNO JULLIARD, STUDENT LEADER (through translator): The only possible solution to the crisis is a withdrawal, pure and simple, of the First Employment Contract.

OAKLEY: The unions gave the lawmakers, as they began meeting yesterday, until the parliamentary holidays begin on April 17 to scrap the law. Otherwise, they insisted, there would be more strikes and demonstrations.

RENE VALLADON, UNION LEADER (through translator): They have decided to keep in permanent contact and to meet again all together on April 10th, 2006. They are ready, and in case no rapid decision on the withdrawal of the CPE, to organize new mobilizations.

OAKLEY: Opposition to the CPE law has, too, given the French left new purpose. In the National Assembly, Socialist leader Francois Hollande repeated the calls to Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who many predict will be brought down by the dispute to repeal the law. But in an impassioned defense of his efforts to conquer youth unemployment, he insisted he wouldn't be quitting. DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPIN, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): You've appealed for responsibility. That is, indeed, our next rendezvous. It isn't a rendezvous of words, it is a rendezvous of acts, and I will be there always -- always.

OAKLEY: The talks in parliament between unions and lawmakers of the majority UMP, which is preceded over by de Villepin's bitter rival for the right presidential nomination next year, Nicolas Sarkozy, will continue into Thursday. But for many, the attempt to introduce more flexibility into French labor laws has come in the wrong way at the wrong time.

DOMINIQUE MOISI, POLITICAL ANALYST: What was deeply wrong in what has happened was the combination between the calendar and the manner. The calendar was in the midst of a presidential campaign, and the manner was brutal and unpolitical.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OAKLEY: First the French government has to get out of the hole it's in over the new labor laws. But even if it can do that, the big question will remain: can this country be modernized to face up to the global economy -- Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Robin Oakley, thank you so much for that update.

Well, neighbor turning against neighbor. A nation descending into genocide. Over 100 terrifying days, nearly one million people were slaughtered in Rwanda.

Immaculee Ilibagiza survived that killing spree by hiding in this tiny bathroom with seven other women, all in that bathroom for three months. A dozen years later, she has put her powerful and painful story on paper. The result, "Left to Tell: Discovering God Amidst the Rwandan Holocaust." It's on the "New York Times" bestseller list. And she's here to tell us more of her story.

Thanks so much for being with us. We're glad you're able to be with us, and congratulations on the courage of telling your story and those of so many other Rwandans.

IMMACULEE ILIBAGIZA, AUTHOR, "LEFT TO TELL": Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here, too.

WHITFIELD: Well, before we talk about that bathroom, the significance of that bathroom and how you and seven other women found refuge there, let's talk about what preceded that, which was almost everybody in your family and everybody else virtually you knew were killed, and somehow you were one of the lone people left standing. How is it that you believe you survived?

ILIBAGIZA: I do believe that I survived because I was left to tell. I think it's the will of God that I was, you know, able to live because I really don't think I'm better than anyone who died. I just was left for a reason, to tell people about the story, what had happened and what God DID to me, you know, for my heart today to be free of anger, of hatred.

WHITFIELD: And the story that you tell, so riveting in the pages, of the survival techniques that you really put into play in order to get through these horrifying days. You ended up finding refuge, along with seven other women, in a tiny bathroom. But before that, you sought the help of a pastor by recommendation from your father, right? You went to this pastor, and what happened when you went to him?

ILIBAGIZA: I went to him, and I remember when I met him first, I told him what my father told me, to come there. And he told me, I am worried that they are going to kill you, as they did in the (INAUDIBLE). So he went to put me in his bathroom. And it was at three in morning when he came to get me. And we were eight people. We sat there. He told us not to make any noise, not to talk to each other, not even to flush the water until somebody is flushing the water, you know, in the next bathroom. So we heard them talk. It was a small bathroom, three feet by four feet. He told me...

WHITFIELD: And in addition...

ILIBAGIZA: He told me he couldn't even tell his children or people in his home.

WHITFIELD: And I just wanted to explain, Immaculee, that we're also seeing the photographs that are included in your book, photographs of you going back to show that very tiny bathroom. And we're also looking at what appeared to be you pulling a chest that would end up covering the front door that the pastor would put into place so that nobody would even see that that door to the bathroom was there, right?

ILIBAGIZA: That's right, yes. I remember asking him, you know -- again it was something like a light into my heart, like God telling me, please tell him. I told him that if he can push it in front of the door. And then the next day, when they came to search, they even searched right inside that cupboard.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

ILIBAGIZA: So they couldn't see, you know, the door behind. It saved us completely.

WHITFIELD: "They" meaning, you know, the Hutu rebels were coming, these killers were coming, looking for more Tutsis to kill. You and these other seven women are in that tiny little bathroom. How is it that you were all A, able to sit, and then keep quiet and comfort one another and grieve the losses of all of your family members all at the same time?

ILIBAGIZA: I know. I think it was just a miracle, really. It was a small bathroom. Of course, it was just a matter of surviving, you know. The first week, we were complaining, how can we be here? For what reason? But when they started to search, we knew how lucky we were to be able to fit in that hidden place. WHITFIELD: And you could hear their voices when they were searching. You knew when they were nearby, right?

ILIBAGIZA: Oh, yes. We heard their voices. They were calling my name. It was people I knew, you know, who were my neighbors who went to school with me. We knew, of course. We heard them singing outside, you know, saying that we are cockroaches. We are the enemy of the country. Yes, it was horrible. It was right there -- I mean, five inches away from where we were.

WHITFIELD: So here you are -- sorry. So here you are hearing the voices of your neighbors, people that you knew and thought you could trust, and now you are having to trust this pastor, too. How worried are you that perhaps, you know, he may be convinced to think otherwise of you all, that he would be -- ultimately betray you?

ILIBAGIZA: You know, there was a certain moment in my life, where I knew I just had to trust in God. That was the only house in that bathroom -- in the village that had two bathrooms inside, you know, one house, in the whole village. So I knew I was protected by God, you know?

Many times when he would have to tell me things, I'd just have to tell him how I felt. It was never that I felt that we are in his hands, you know? And he told me himself when I met him last year that there was a time he wanted to take us, you know, to let us go.

Of course, he couldn't take us. You know, he didn't even know what they can do to him if they ever find him. But for him to take the decision not to send us away also, I think it was not up to him. I had to trust completely in the higher power.

WHITFIELD: Wow. And for 91 days, at least that, you did that, holding onto your rosaries, saying prayers. Were there ever moments where you had to help pull everybody else together, the other seven women in that bathroom together? Surely some people had to say, you know what? I can't do this anymore. We thought we'd be here for hours, maybe days, but now we've lost count of how many days.

ILIBAGIZA: I know, there was a moment, you know, especially the first weeks, where I thought that, you know, this is too much pain, you know. I wish I can just go and give myself to the killers so I can end this torture.

But the moment I started to pray, every minute of my time in the bathroom, and I was able, you know, to grow spiritually inside of me, especially when I forgave the people, when I knew for sure that there was no way they could know what they were doing, you know -- I was praying for them, you know -- I said that in my spirit I was busy.

So there I had something to do. I knew that. There is a reason I was there. I was not bored anymore. I knew I have to pray for the killers, to pray for people who were dying. So I couldn't give up anymore.

WHITFIELD: And that's so remarkable, too, that you really do underscore in your book that out of all of this, even while you're enduring this, you were forgiving the killers of your family members, of your brethren, all throughout the community. Throughout all of this, you are forgiving of them and all that transpired. Why?

ILIBAGIZA: Because, you know, when you are angry, you know, sometimes it can get to a level that you think it is poisoning. You know, it is too strong. And I felt it. I was there, so I knew how bad it could be. And for me, it was the grace of God that I was able to let go.

I felt much better when I was not angry. And, you know, it was there. You know, I felt like it was luggage I took off, you know, my shoulder. And I tell everyone today, you know, if they can forgive, that is the only way to peace, you know, to heal the world.

And I think that is why I am able, you know, to smile, to live, you know, because I have many people who are still very angry. And, of course, I understand them, but if you can only make that step and let go and pray for those people, you know, for the evil to go out, those people are not evil.

It is evil that passes through them, that uses them. You know, I'm sure a 100 percent. And I give a chance to the world now. You know, I believe we can make the world a better place if you only can just love better, you know, and try to forgive more.

WHITFIELD: Well, you are an amazing woman, an amazing inspiration with an incredible story to tell and how you are also helping so many other Rwandans, particularly young people who have endured the same hardships as you.

The book is "Left to Tell, Discovering God Amidst the Rwandan Holocaust." Immaculee Ilibagiza, thank you so much. And, again, congratulations on your sheer courage for coming forward and sharing your story like this and teaching so many of us so many valuable lessons.

ILIBAGIZA: Thank you so much also for having me.

WHITFIELD: Well, the news keeps coming, and we'll keep bringing it to you. More of LIVE FROM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Last month, CNN broke the news as the U.S. military in Iraq was launching a criminal investigation into whether marines overreacted to an insurgent attack and needlessly killed 15 Iraqi civilians.

A few days later, "Time" magazine published a detailed account of what some survivors claim was a massacre. Here's an update on the investigation from CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, as first seen on "A.C. 360."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was this gruesome videotape provided to "Time" magazine by an Iraqi human rights group that began to unravel the U.S. military's official version of what happened at Haditha last November 19th.

A Marine Corps press release issued the next day stated 15 Iraqi civilians were killed from the blast of a roadside bomb.

But the images of blood-splattered walls, bodies wrapped in rugs, and bullet wounds belied that story, strongly indicating the men, women and children had been gunned down by the Marines who shot their way into several houses.

The only survivors in one of the houses were a brother and sister. And only one is talking, Eman Waleed, who was 9 at the time.

EMAN WALEED, SURVIVOR (through translator): I heard explosions by the door. The Americans came into the room where my father was praying and shot him. They went to my grandmother and killed her, too. I heard an explosion. They threw a grenade under my grandfather's bed.

MCINTYRE: Eman Waleed showed her wounds in this interview, aired last week on Britain's "ITV News." She told essentially the same story in an account published earlier in "Time" magazine, saying the attack that killed seven of her family members was unprovoked.

WALEED (through translator): We were all crying, but the Americans were also screaming. They were shouting at my father before they killed him.

MCINTYRE: Reporter Bobby Ghosh, who helped write the original "Time" article, believes the young girl is telling the truth as she knows it.

BOBBY GHOSH, "TIME" MAGAZINE: She is very credible. She lost her entire family except for one younger brother. Father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, uncle -- seven members of her family were mowed down in her home in her presence.

She cannot know whether the soldiers did what they did deliberately. She only knows the facts of the case that her family were killed by the soldiers. And this is no longer in doubt anymore.

MCINTYRE (on camera): It was "Time" magazine's investigation that forced the U.S. military to consider the awful possibility that the killings might have been done by undisciplined Marines on a rampage after losing one of their own, Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas, to an improvised explosive device, or IED.

(voice-over): The "Time" account quotes U.S. military officials familiar with the investigation as saying, "the Marines say they came under fire from the direction of the Waleed house immediately after being hit by the IED."

The officials say one group of Marines entered the house, "walked into a corridor with closed doors on either side, and thought they heard the clack-clack sound of an AK-47 being racked and readied for fire. Believing they were about to be ambushed, they broke down the two doors simultaneously and fired their weapons."

GHOSH: The first report was so far off the facts. That is disturbing. It was also disturbing that they took so long to begin an investigation. Essentially it would appear they waited for us to bring them the tape before they even began to examine this seriously.

MCINTYRE: CNN was the first to report last month that an investigation was underway. The Pentagon will say little about the probe beyond the public statements by the three-star general who ordered it.

LT. GEN. PETER CHIARELLI, CMDR. MULTINATIONAL CORPS IRAQ: We take these allegations of potential misconduct seriously, and they will be thoroughly investigated.

MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, the U.S. has apologized to the families and given them $2,500 for each of the 15 victims.

That doesn't impress the young girl who says her father was shot while praying.

WALEED (through translator): They kill people, then they say sorry. I hate them. I hate the Americans. The whole world hates them for what they have done here.

MCINTYRE: Military sources tell CNN criminal investigators are looking into the civilian deaths, while a separate non-criminal investigation is reviewing whether the initial inaccurate reports were a deliberate cover-up.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And to read the full "Time" magazine report on this story, you can go to CNN.com/world and to get a fresh perspective on the day's top stories from Anderson Cooper join "AC 360" tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

Some generous winners coming up next. You're watching LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Some big winners are spreading the wealth in Nebraska. Three of the men who shared the biggest Lottery jackpot in American history, all three immigrants to the U.S., are sharing some of their winnings. They're making a $6,000 donation to a homeless shelter in Lincoln.

One of the three men had actually stayed at that shelter once. They were part of a group -- the three men were part of a group of eight co-workers who won a $365 million Powerball jackpot. And new developments this afternoon in the investigation at Duke University, where a female dancer has accused several members of the men's lacrosse team of rape. An update on that story when the next hour of LIVE FROM begins in a moment.

The news keeps coming, and we'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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