Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Immigration Debate Heats Up as Thousands Protest Across U.S.; Egyptian Religious Official Calls for the Destruction of Ancient Treasures

Aired April 10, 2006 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: It's a border state in a state of uncertainty. A battleground in a war over immigration reform, Texas is the scene of statewide rallies today. And that includes Houston, where CNN's Ed Lavandera is right now.
Ed, set the scene for us.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, as you can see we're in the middle of a swarm of people. This is the end of the rally that started about two hours ago here in the Houston area, just on the outskirts of downtown. They've marched their way, and this is the culmination here, with another public rally in this park in downtown Houston.

Organizers had expected anywhere between 10 and 20,000 people showing up here. They've spent the last two weeks organizing the rally. And even though we haven't heard an official count from police here in Houston just yet, I would not be surprised if they surpassed the number of people they expected to turn out for this rally today.

At one point in the march, as we were coming over, I walked the entire length of the route with the people. At one point, at the highest vantage point, you could see that the line of people lasted a good -- at least a mile or so. So what we've heard over and over again from these people here is that many of them have stories of relatives who are here illegally or have been deported, that they are -- continue to push for legal status for many of their family members that are illegal immigrants here in the U.S. So they continue to push for that.

And every single one of these people, you ask them over and over again if they feel like rallies like this are making a difference in this national debate, and they -- many of them protesting like this for the very first time say that they can completely feel that what -- their voices are being heard here.

So, in that sense, you sense a lot of excitement for the people who are here on this hot muggy day in downtown Houston, protesting and the chants over and over again. Many of them start with messages to President Bush, and they're hoping that he's hearing what they have to say here today -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ed, you know what's interesting is I'm looking at these live pictures, and your photographer is giving us a good sense of how big this is and -- I mean, you are seeing all gender, all different types of races. Obviously this is not -- these aren't just illegal immigrants that are out here, but you're seeing a lot of support from a number of ethnicities. Have you had a chance to talk with anybody else to why they're out here supporting Latinos?

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, one of the interesting things -- as the rally was starting up, I had an Asian-American woman who had run up behind and grab my arm and asked me to put her on TV, that she wanted to let Hispanic Americans know that the Asian community was with them. You see a lot of that. We've seen a lot of African- American support here in this rally, as well, today.

One of the things I expected to see a little bit more of and have not seen so far -- even though we have seen a little bit -- is the counter protests to all of this. People who are clearly in a large segment of the population here in the U.S., who want to tight -- more tight controls of immigration and more security on the border. I suspected and I expected to see perhaps a little bit more of that counter protest along this route here today. And we quite frankly haven't seen that.

PHILLIPS: All right, Ed Lavandera, coming to us there live from Texas. Ed, thank you so much.

And we mentioned earlier that a high school near L.A. that greased a fence to keep students from running off to immigration rallies, and a school district outside Washington that's opening the gate.

More on that now from Matt Acklin (ph) our affiliate in Washington, WTTG.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT ACKLIN, WTTG REPORTER (voice-over): Although Montgomery County schools will have no part in the protests, students who want to participate will get credit for it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reasoning behind that is because it allows students to learn civics. They learn to participate in the community's political activities.

ACKLIN: But hold on a minute says Brad Botwin, whose son is a high school student.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a question of safety. I would not send my son downtown if there were supposed to be 100,000 people downtown.

ACKLIN: These pictures were taken recently of students doing clean-up projects, even providing musical entertainment at a school event. All of it counted toward the student learning service requirement. But some just don't understand how participating in a protest should get the same credit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, you can go to the other extreme. Instead of CASA, what if this was the Ku Klux Klan having a rally downtown? Would Dr. Weiss (ph) sanction sending our students downtown for an event like that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; No student is required to go down and participate in the protest. It's simply an option. And if students -- and parents don't want their students to be there, by all means, they should not send their students.

ACKLIN: It is state law all students must complete 60 hours of student service learning before they graduate. And with time running out for many seniors, some worry the seniors may be putting themselves in the middle of a heated controversy just to make it out of high school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have students that are desperate for the hours to graduate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, in the past hour, a number of marchers are filling the streets of Manhattan.

Let's get straight to our senior correspondent Allan Chernoff, there in New York City.

Allan, give us a sense for what's taking place. Who's speaking and what's happening, as you're in the middle of the crowd there.

ALLAN CHERNOFF: That's right. Well, Kyra, only a few minutes ago, Senator Clinton was speaking and she was calling for a (AUDIO GAP), which is exactly what all of these people want. This is a very broad coalition that you're seeing over here, not only in terms of nationality. And as with (INAUDIBLE), you can see the various flags, Ecuadorian flags, Mexican flags, Dominican flags and of course, many American flags.

Now, we also have people here from immigrant organizations, community groups. And a lot of these people are U.S. citizens, but some are illegal aliens. And we also have many American-born people here who are union members. So it's a very broad coalition here. Right now, I'd say we have about three blocks worth of people here.

And the protesters are (AUDIO GAP), they are crossing over the Brooklyn Bridge. They also continue to walk down from Chinatown and also walking down from Greenwich Village. The organizers here have given us estimates of 50 to 100,000. Frankly, what I see right now, it doesn't seem like it has a chance of coming anywhere near the number.

But certainly nonetheless, many thousands of people here and they certainly are quite vocal, calling for Washington to move forward on immigration reform. Certainly, a lot of disappointment that the Senate was not able to push forward a bill last week. They are still hopeful here, though, that some action can be taken in Washington -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Allan, are you able to hear me OK if I ask you a question or is it... CHERNOFF: Yes, I am.

PHILLIPS: Well, you bring up an interesting point there at your rally, because we saw it with Ed Lavandera and we're starting to see it more and more now versus say a week or two ago, and that is the diversity of people at these rallies. Not just a Mexican issue, but you're seeing so many different types of immigrants coming out. It's turning into a much broader protest, would you say?

CHERNOFF: Well certainly here in New York City, as you know, there so many immigrants from all over the world. As a matter of fact, the New York Immigration Coalition is comprised of more than 150 different community organizations. So that, of course, spans the globe, everywhere from Russia to China, Mexico, Central America, all over the globe. So of course there are people from all over the world here. But, of course, predominantly Hispanic. No question we have, of course, had much chanting, much discussion here.

PHILLIPS: Allan Chernoff, right there in the center of that protest in New York City. Kind of losing the signal every now and then because he's actually on a wireless camera. Pretty awesome technology and it is working pretty well. Allan Chernoff thank you so much. We got everything you said there.

Our live coverage of these massive immigration rallies happening across the country continues. The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. Another live shot, this one coming from WABC of the protest there in New York City. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Mass arrests in one of Canada's worst mass murders in a decade. Five people are said to face charges in the death of eight people linked to a biker gang. Their bodies were found over the weekend stuffed into abandon vehicles on a farm in Southern Ontario.

Police today searched a nearby farm owned by a gang member. They described the shootings as an internal cleansing of The Banditos motorcycle gang.

A Bingo game turns brutal near Toronto. Now four women are wanted for questioning. Police say they have parking lot surveillance tape that shows the women kicking and punching a 58-year-old man. The victim had just won a thousand dollar jackpot. After the beating he staggered back into the Bingo hall, collapsed and died. An autopsy is planned.

Could The Sphinx be on borrowed time? Some in Egypt think maybe. A hard-line religious leader says figures of pharaohs and statues have no place in Islam.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has the monumental details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is a brisk trade in cheap knockoffs of pharaohnic treasures out at the pyramid. But this trade and so much more was recently thrown into doubt.

Egypt's most senior Islamic figure, the mufti of the republic, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, issued a fatwa, or religious decree, declaring that under Islamic law statues are haram, religiously forbidden.

Islamic purists argue statues and other recreations of living things are a temptation to idolatry. In this country where time-worn monuments line the Nile, the fatwa has ignited a heated debate which these vendors aren't shy to join.

We don't worship the statues. We sell them, says Samir Ismail(ph), fresh from his latest sale. I make a living off of them and nothing more.

Others argue Egypt's ancient religion and its symbols gave birth to the monotheistic traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

ZAHI HAWAS, SUPREME COUNCIL OF ANTIQUITIES: Still without this you not be a good Jew. You will not be a good Christian. You not be a good Muslim. This is actually the base of religion. This is how the people at the beginning of history continue toward the statue.

WEDEMAN: Religious arguments aside, Egypt's monuments are a critical national resource. Tourism is the country's largest foreign exchange earner. As long as the tourists stomp through, the money pours in.

The fatwa have aroused fears, some might say hysteria, that The Sphinx could meet the same fate as Afghanistan's Bamiyan Buddhas, dynamited by The Taliban in 2001. Moderate Muslim scholar, Sheikh Mahmoud Ashour, told me such fears are baseless.

There are people who worship cows, who worship the sun, he says. Does that mean we have to destroy all cows and destroy the sun?

Luckily for Egypt's heritage, the fatwa has fallen flat.

(on camera): Even Egypt's fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood has said the mufti should hold his fatwa fire for more important targets, like rampant official corruption and dictatorship. So for now the future of Egypt's ancient monuments seem as solid as stone.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Giza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: More emotional testimony in the sentencing trial of convicted terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui. We're LIVE FROM Alexandria, Virginia, where court has just ended for the day. LIVE FROM is back after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: No one is shocked to learn that big brother may be listening or even watching. But what if he started talking, warning, threatening? CNN's Gary Nurenberg reports those little voices may not be all in your head.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the Walnut Hills neighborhood of Cincinnati to a wooded area of Baltimore ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop, this is a restricted area.

NURENBERG: Cities are turning to a new generation of talking surveillance cameras to deter crime.

GLENWOOD THOMAS, ENVIRONMENTAL CRIMES AGENT: They're able to capture the license plates of vehicles.

NURENBERG: Glenwood Thomas works on environmental crime enforcement in Baltimore where the cameras are being used to stop illegal dumping.

THOMAS: Some of the things that amaze me is restaurants who dump oil in the allies. We have car companies that dump oil inside the drainage system.

PASTOR ROBERT BURLEY, OLIVER COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION: I right now am tired of people disrespecting the space where I live and operate every day.

NURENBERG: Residents asked the city to install the cameras.

NINA HARPER, OLIVER COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION: I'm very frustrated because in the mornings, I drive around the community and I see the trash where the night before it may not have been there.

NURENBERG: The cameras are triggered by motion detectors. The threat clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your photograph was just taken. We will use it to prosecute you.

ROY GREEN, WALNUT HILLS, OHIO: Sounds like the sergeant that I had in the military. It would make me want to do he said to do.

NURENBERG: Baltimore has only used the cameras two months but Thomas is convinced.

THOMAS: The cameras have been an overwhelming success. Basically those areas where the cameras were placed are now clean areas.

NURENBERG (on camera): But those who study the use of cameras by law enforcement agencies say there is another predictable result as well.

CEDRIC LAURANT, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFO. CTR.: They're very effective at preventing crime in the specific location where they're located but not at other places. What happens is the phenomenon of displacement. Criminals go somewhere else.

NURENBERG (voice-over): Baltimore's Thomas is no Mary Poppins when it comes to displacement but still has a bottom line.

THOMAS: Since the cameras have been up here, this is pretty much a clean location now.

NURENBERG: Gary Nurenberg, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And we're just a number of minutes away, about seven minutes I guess, give or take a few seconds from "THE SITUATION ROOM." And of course, the top story for Wolf today will be these protests that are happening all across the United States. Wolf, I've been reading possibly 70 plus protests all across the U.S. I'm sure you're going to be bringing as many live shots as possible coming up in the show.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We certainly are. We're going to go live to a lot of those demonstrations. A sleeping giant, Kyra, awakening right now. Hundreds of thousands of people in the streets around the country, calling for immigration reform. What impact will they have on election day coming up? We're covering all the angles.

Also the White House leak. President Bush explains himself and the man at the center of it all responds. The former U.S. ambassador Joe Wilson, live right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Also, dissenting generals. They're coming out across the war and calling for the resignation of the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld. We have that story as well.

And wild speculation or special operations? A look at the nuclear option against Iran. All that, Kyra, coming up right at the top of the hour here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

PHILLIPS: All right, Wolf. Look forward to it, thanks so much. The news keeps coming, we'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Frequent flyers called it lax, and that's not just FAA shorthand. It seems it's also an apt description of conditions at Los Angeles International Airport. A recent consumer survey shows that LAX, one of the world's busiest airports, is also rated one of the world's worst. LAX is trying to improve its image. The "Los Angeles Times" reports a major airport makeover is underway at a cost of about $6 million a year.

A mixed day for the major markets. Ali Velshi is back to clear up the financial picture for us. But what's this about gas prices, even higher?

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com