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Duke University Rape Investigation; Iran Nuclear Dispute; Moussaoui Trial

Aired April 11, 2006 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's stirred a lot of emotions and shaken two college campuses. It's also divided a city. But the Duke rape investigation will go on.
Our Amanda Rosseter joins us now from Durham, North Carolina, with the latest on the investigation -- Amanda.

AMANDA ROSSETER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

We are here on the campus of NCCU, North Carolina Central University, where the alleged victim in this case is a student. And I want to share with you the local headlines from today's local papers.

This one from the Duke University paper "The Chronicle." The headline is "No Match." And this one from "The Durham Herald-Sun," "Lawyers Say DNA Tests Show Duke Players Innocent."

Those the headlines from this morning, after yesterday's evidence came back that there was no match to the DNA with the lacrosse players. The headline here this afternoon, however, comes from a forum that was held here on the campus at North Carolina Central this morning in which district attorney Mike Nifong appeared and said, despite the lack of DNA evidence from yesterday, this case will go on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL NIFONG, DURHAM COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: A lot has been said in the press, particularly by some attorneys yesterday, about this case should go away. I hope that you will understand by the fact that I am here this morning is that my presence here means that this case is not going away.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSSETER: And Kyra, to clarify something that Mike Nifong just said, he made two key points here. He says there are still DNA tests out there that need to be conducted and they need to get the results back on those. And he says that they will pursue this case based on other evidence in this case that was obtained during the hospital interview -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. You said there are still tests out there. You mean there have been other individuals that have been tested and we just don't know those results yet? ROSSETER: We do not what evidence -- what other DNA evidence he is talking about that needs to be collected. He was not specific about that, and that was one of the things that I asked the students here after the forum, if they felt that there was a sense of relief after he said that the case will go on. And they said, because he was not specific about it, there was no specificity here, that they had no sense of relief. There was still a lot of feeling of tension and aggression in this case -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Amanda Rosseter, thanks so much.

Well, Duke and North Carolina Central geographically close, but racially and socially light years apart. Here's more from today's emotional legal forum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a climate across campus that too many people are blaming the victim. No one, male or female, heterosexual or homosexual, deserves to be assaulted, sodomized, raped, abused or beaten.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And anyone that would take the position that this is her fault, shame on you. You have minimalized my sister to a stripper and an exotic dancer. She walks this campus every day going to class trying to provide for her family. You don't identify her as a mother, you don't identify her as a student, you don't identify her as a woman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would like to extend a hand out to the young lady that was attacked and let her know that your school is behind you regardless of what the DNA is. We know that it took the police two days to check that house, so anything could have been done with any evidence.

So we want to let you know that we have a great law school, we have great attorneys as professors here, and we're definitely behind you. But I want her to know that for, one, it's not really a question, because we all know if this happened at Central and the young lady was from another school or another persuasion, the outcome would have been different. They would have been in jail.

Everybody can make the comment that they wouldn't be, but there's a lot of young men in jail right now that's waiting on DNA in jail. So I understand that you all are going to say that's not the case because you all have to give us political answers, but that is the case. We know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, he's the only black player on the Duke lacrosse team and the only one not asked for a DNA sample. Now the parents of an 18-year-old goalie, Devon Sherwood (ph), are standing behind his teammates and hailing the reported results of the DNA tests. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES SHERWOOD, FATHER: He always said all along the guys are innocent. And I said, "I want to certainly believe that." And so I think it's coming out that he was correct.

I think there was a slight overreaction, but now that the DNA has come in and shown that the players are pretty much innocent of any physical wrongdoing, that's a good thing. And maybe the rest of the Durham community can find that out and maybe some peace will be restored down there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Devon Sherwood (ph) didn't have to give his DNA because the alleged victim said her attackers were white.

The Durham County D.A. says the case is proceeding the way a case should proceed, not too specific, and it leaves us wondering where things go from here.

Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to take a look.

Great to see you, Jeffrey.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Let's get right to Durham D.A. Michael Nifong. I've got two pieces of his statement today. I want to get your reaction, first of all, to this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIFONG: It doesn't mean nothing happened. It just means nothing was left behind, which is the case in 75 to 80 percent of all sexual assaults.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: So he's saying there are other ways to prove rape besides DNA.

TOOBIN: And that -- and that is absolutely true. There are thousands of people in prison who have been convicted in rape cases without DNA evidence.

Eyewitness testimony, can the accuser pick -- pick the perpetrators out of a lineup? Did any of the -- did any of the would- be defendants make any incriminating admissions? Are there other witnesses? Is there other physical evidence? Scratches on people?

I mean, those are the kinds of evidence that is used routinely in rape cases, and they don't need DNA evidence all the time.

PHILLIPS: All right. And there have been some questions about possibly some other tests. Let me get your reaction to this part of his statement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIFONG: There are many kinds of DNA tests that can be done, and it might -- it might surprise you or it might not surprise you to know that we're still waiting for the results of some DNA tests that have not been done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, a couple of ways we could read that. Is he saying that possibly there are other tests pending? For example, were there other people in that house? Were there other people besides lacrosse players that have been tested and we're waiting on those results, or they're going to be tested and then we're waiting on the results?

TOOBIN: Or it could be the same evidence with different kinds of DNA tests. There's the PCR test, there's the RFLP test that sometimes can get results out of degraded samples that, you know, one round of testing doesn't reveal.

I think it's really a bad idea, Kyra, to take defense attorneys' word for it that simply, you know, their interpretation of a DNA test means the case is over. They may be right, but they're not necessarily right. And I think it's much more important to let the prosecutor do a full investigation with DNA and non-DNA evidence and see what he comes up with.

KAGAN: What did you say the other test was, R...

TOOBIN: RFLP.

KAGAN: Tell me what that is. I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with that.

TOOBIN: Well, it stands for some technical term that I can't -- that I can't summon for you from memory. But basically what it is, is they -- a PCR test can take a very small amount of DNA and type it to a certain extent. The RFLP you need a little bit more, but it's much more specific.

These tests are evolving all the time, different labs do different kinds of tests. So, you know, it takes a while to do all the testing. And just one announcement of one result relayed through defense attorneys who obviously have a strong interest in interpreting the results one way, you've got to wait until it's all done to reach a conclusion.

PHILLIPS: So no arrests have been made, no charges have been filed. At this stage in the game, what's your take on how it's being handled? They're just being extremely thorough? There's a lot of media attention on this.

TOOBIN: That's right. But, you know, it's only been a week or so since this crime. When you're dealing with suspects who are not fugitives, who are not, you know, fleeing the jurisdiction, these 43 suspects, if you want to call them that, you know where they're going to be, so you don't have to arrest anyone right away.

It's far more important to make the right decision than it is to reach a fast decision when, you know, arresting someone. If you're going to arrest anyone a week from now, two weeks from now, a month from now, it's better to do it right later than to make a mistake on something so important just because, you know, the media is asking you questions. We're not that important.

PHILLIPS: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks.

TOOBIN: OK, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, the other story we've been talking about all day, of course, has been the low grade but high drama taking place, enriched uranium produced in Iran announced in ceremonies, beamed to the world by the president himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The nuclear fuel cycle at the laboratory level has been completed. And uranium with the desired enrichment for nuclear power plants was achieved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the Iranian leader insists that his nation wants peace and calmness. But Washington isn't so sure.

CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor joins me now with U.S. reaction.

It seems like we're still hearing a lot of the same rhetoric, David, but what exactly is going on here and how significant do you think this is?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, this is politically significant, no question about that. The U.N. Security Council gave Iran a month. It will be another couple of weeks now to wrap up any activities it has in enriching uranium. And here's their answer: they're going ahead. And they're making triumphant announcements in front of large numbers of people that they have succeeded with producing a small amount of uranium enriched enough to produce electricity.

It is a quite small amount. It was just with just 164 centrifuges. That isn't very many. And while politically quite significant, scientifically it isn't that big a deal according to the experts.

Here's David Albright, one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID ALBRIGHT, NUCLEAR EXPERT: I think it's mostly about and politics, they want the world to believe that they're like North Korea, they've accomplished the goal, you can't step us. But, in fact, they're a long way from accomplishing the goal and they can be stopped through diplomatic means.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: So, there you have it, Kyra. Politically, important. Scientifically, progress, but not such a big deal as all that -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: How many centrifuges did you say, about 160?

ENSOR: A hundred and sixty-four at one site.

PHILLIPS: Do we know how many it takes to actually create a nuclear bomb?

ENSOR: It takes hundreds and hundreds more than that, and they have to work. And the great question, experts say, is whether these 164 will continue to function as they have so far. They believe that Iran has a lot of learning yet to do before this is a successful program that could produce bomb-grade uranium, which, by the way, is not what they did today.

PHILLIPS: OK. Not bomb-grade uranium.

So what's next?

ENSOR: Well, the U.S. is warning that this is -- these actions, these statements show that Iran is on the wrong path. As the White House spokesman put it, the wrong direction, and he says that the U.S. in a couple of weeks will be discussing with other members of the U.N. Security Council what possible steps might be taken.

Now, whether they've got the votes, whether the U.S. has the votes on that Security Council to impose punitive sanctions is by no means clear. But with this action Iran is basically saying, go ahead, give it your best shot.

PHILLIPS: David Ensor.

Thanks.

And if you were with us last hour, you saw Donald Rumsfeld refuse to comment directly on Iran's announcement.

CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, that press conference wrapping up here in the briefing room just about half an hour ago. The secretary, as you say, saying that he refused to get into what he called "fantasy land" when reporters asked him a number of questions about any U.S. military intentions toward Iran.

The secretary most pointedly did not want to talk about whether there was any contingency planning for a military strike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have I don't know how many various contingency plans in this department. And the last thing I'm going to do is to start telling you or anyone else in the press or the world at what point we refresh a plan or don't refresh a plan and why. It just isn't useful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: But, Kyra, U.S. military officials with knowledge of military planning clearly say that there is contingency planning going on. They call that routine. They say it has not moved into the phase of operational planning, where you would begin to identify troops, airplanes, ships, resources and assets to make some sort of military plan happen.

General Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, saying very adamantly that even with the war in Iraq, the U.S. still has the military capacity, sufficient military capacity to engage in a second major contingency -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.

Thanks, Barbara.

A dramatic day in the death penalty case of convicted 9/11 terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui. Hear what he said about the attacks on the Pentagon. We'll have a report from Alexandria, Virginia.

The news keeping coming. We'll keep bringing it to you.

More LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Amid emotional accusations from family members and victims of 9/11 comes an outburst from the defendant himself, Zacarias Moussaoui.

CNN's Kelli Arena has the very latest from Alexandria, Virginia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: As the jury headed into their lunch break, they had just finished from the first witness representing the Pentagon bombing, a special agent of the FBI. Her name is Jacqueline McGuire (ph). She is working on the so-called Pent (ph) bomb investigation.

She is basically laying the groundwork, the damage that was done, lives that were lost. We saw pictures of exterior and interior damage at the Pentagon. We also saw horrific pictures of body parts and human remains that were found inside the Pentagon. Very hard for the family members who were sitting in the courtroom to look at and deal with.

Earlier in the morning we heard the final witnesses, family members and friends of people who had died at the World Trade Center. Again, very emotional, gripping testimony. The jury has remained pretty stone-faced throughout the day, showing no sign of emotion that I could see.

Zacarias Moussaoui also in the courtroom. For the most part very quiet. At some points he was smiling to himself, especially when the pictures of the damage to the Pentagon were being shown.

At one point the prosecution was reading a list of all of the damage that had been done that day to the Pentagon, and Moussaoui mouthed to himself -- I had a clear view of him, and he said, "Allah Akhbar," which means "God is great."

As he left the courtroom, he screamed, much to the dismay of family members there, and said, "Burn all Pentagon next time!" It has become his standard practice to scream as he leaves the courtroom after the judge and jury have exited.

For the rest of the day we do expect to hear more Pentagon family members and friends and officials testify, and we think that the judge may end early again. This testimony has been very emotional, very hard to take.

This is Kelli Arena, CNN, Alexandria, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, the judge says prosecutors are on shaky ground with all this emotional testimony, but what are the real legal risks to the case against a man who admits he's an al Qaeda terrorist?

Let's bring back CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin once again from New York.

TOOBIN: Hi, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I have you for a two-fer.

TOOBIN: Yes.

PHILLIPS: I should have just kept you live the whole time.

TOOBIN: Happy to be here.

PHILLIPS: Well, first of all, let me and you about all this emotional testimony. I mean, hearing -- just hearing everything again and again and again and watching the reaction from all the victims' families there in the courtroom and friends, now we're hearing it might be too much and it could cause an appeal?

TOOBIN: Well, it certainly will be grounds for an appeal, but I don't think it will be any grounds for overturning this conviction. I mean, this is a case where there are 3,000 dead people. You know, the prosecution is allowed to show the scope of that kind of devastation, and the -- Judge Brinkema in this case has actually prohibited a lot of the evidence that the government wanted to put on. This is less than they originally sought, and, you know, it's horrific, it's heart-breaking, it's awful testimony to listen to, but the government can rightly point out, hey, this is what happened, and that's not our problem. That's the problem of the people who did this.

PHILLIPS: Do you know what was prohibited?

TOOBIN: Well, just the number of witnesses.

PHILLIPS: OK.

TOOBIN: She limited the number of witnesses a lot.

PHILLIPS: Wow. And from an attorney's perspective, if you're dealing with someone like Moussaoui and just these outbursts and these things that he's saying, as an attorney do you just throw your hands up and say...

TOOBIN: Why didn't I go to medical school...

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

TOOBIN: ... I think is what you say.

PHILLIPS: Why did I go into law?

TOOBIN: Right.

PHILLIPS: Because this is not going to be on my side.

TOOBIN: You know, Moussaoui has been his own worst enemy throughout this case. I mean, as we've discussed, the first part of this case, where the prosecution tried to tie him to the 9/11 conspiracy, actually didn't go very well for the government until Moussaoui, against the advice of his lawyers, took the witness standard and essentially admitted to everything.

So, you know, he has been a disaster in this case. And all his lawyers can hope is that the argument they're going to make, which is that Moussaoui's schizophrenic, he's crazy, he's not responsible for his actions, that the outbursts, instead of horrifying the jury and making them more angry, will make them more receptive to the argument that this guy is crazy and not responsible for his actions.

I mean, that's the best they can hope for. I don't think it's much of a hope, but at least that's the -- that's the thought process that they're going to go through.

PHILLIPS: Is there any point where his attorneys, Moussaoui's attorneys, could just say, forget it, I quit, I'm out of here?

TOOBIN: No, they wouldn't do that. PHILLIPS: They've got to stick it out?

TOOBIN: No, they've got to stick it out. And that's part of the professional responsibility of a lawyer. And these are very responsible lawyers, and they're doing their best. And they've actually done a very good job.

And as I say, the first part of this case really is problematic for the government, and if there's going to be a successful appeal, I think that's where the successful appeal is, that the government simply did not establish a close enough tie between all these deaths and Moussaoui's own actions.

So they've done a very good job, and they'll continue to do a very good job. Their client is just a very crazy, very bad guy.

PHILLIPS: Thank you -- to say the least. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks again.

TOOBIN: OK. See you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We're going to stay on that story.

More LIVE FROM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Call it a lucky break. A state trooper in Ohio had just pulled over a driver on Interstate 80 when a tire flew off a passing tractor trailer and hit him.

Did you see that? It broke his collarbone, but that's it. That driver pulled over, well, he's the one you see in the dash cam video helping the trooper on the side of the road.

Bet he didn't get a ticket.

A warning now for contact lens users and a big problem for Bausch & Lomb.

Susan Lisovicz joins us now from the New York Stock Exchange.

Do you wear contact lenses, Susan?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't, I'm happy to tell...

PHILLIPS: You're very lucky.

LISOVICZ: ... when I have a story like this, Kyra.

Bausch & Lomb, which is one of the biggest players in the business, is voluntarily halting shipments of ReNu with MoistureLoc, which is one of its contact lens solutions, because of increasing reports of a possible connection with a serious eye infection. This is being investigated by both the CDC and the FDA. There's no direct link to the product just yet, but there have been more than 100 cases reported of a fungal infection.

It is rare, but it is serious enough that blindness can occur. And in some cases, cornea transplants have been needed. The FDA says, in the meantime, it is not pulling existing products off the shelves, but it is urging the 30 million Americans who do wear soft contact lenses to keep their hands and lens cases clean.

Just a few months ago, Bausch & Lomb suspended sales of the same solution in Singapore and Hong Kong because of similar infections -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So what's the company's response?

LISOVICZ: Well, the company is trying to be proactive in a very difficult situation, Kyra. The company's CEO does acknowledge that there is an apparent disproportionate representation of Bausch & Lomb solution among the victims.

Again, so far, no direct link. But there have been 109 cases reported. Thirty of them have been fully investigated and 26 of these people used ReNu MoistureLoc solution. So it's pretty dramatic.

PHILLIPS: All right. Playing out on Wall Street?

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

LISOVICZ: And that is the latest from Wall Street.

Still ahead, Visa is changing the way it does business, and your checkout times may be a lot shorter as a result. I'll have that story in the next hour.

CNN's LIVE FROM continues after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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