Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Moussaoui Jury Deliberates; Enron Founder Takes the Stand; Zarqawi Video Surfaces; Writer Discusses Access to Family of Duke Rape Accuser

Aired April 25, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are apparently getting a rare and very recent glimpse of the most wanted man in Iraq. Take a look at it. A man believed to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi appears on this video posted on an Islamic Web site. And, from what he says, the tape was made last Friday.
Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, has been to the town where al-Zarqawi grew up. He has also covered this war and the insurgency from the very beginning.

And he joins us now from London to talk about this.

What gives you the idea this tape was made last Friday, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, towards the very end of the message, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi says that he recorded this on the 21st of April. That was last Friday.

What I find very interesting about this tape is, it does match what I have been hearing coming from tribal leaders in the western -- west of Iraq, what I have been hearing from intelligence sources in the region. And that is that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is trying to cast himself as a leader of the Sunni people in Iraq, in the west of Iraq.

The -- the videotape works or in, or splices in, pictures of Osama bin Laden. It shows Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, for the first time on a videotape, showing his face quite clearly. But what he says he is doing here is appealing to his countrymen in Iraq, which is very interesting, because Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian, but, here, he is appealing to Iraqis, and not just any Iraqis, to Sunnis.

And he appeals to their honor, and he talks about some very, very sensitive issues. He -- he appeals to their honor about their women. And, if you talk to some people from the tribes in the west of Iraq, in the Sunni area of Iraq, they say that their women are being abused by U.S. troops. There's no evidence that we have seen to support that, but that's what a lot of people in that area believe. That's their perception. And that's a perception that Zarqawi is playing to here -- Betty.

NGUYEN: It's interesting that you say that he appeals to the Iraqis' honor, because this is a man who has claimed responsibility for many bloody attacks, including the beheadings of some folks in Iraq. So, what is his message here? Is he trying to win back that support? ROBERTSON: That seems to be what is happening. Zarqawi has a lot of criticism for those beheadings, the beheading of Nick Berg, where it was believed Zarqawi was actually the -- was actually the masked man holding the knife who beheaded Nick Berg.

But has toned himself down over the last year or so. Some of the very, very big suicide bombings that were -- Zarqawi was believed to be responsible for, killing more than 100 at one time, those have sort of withered away, if you will. Those big, very, very deadly attacks are not gone completely, but all but gone.

And it does appear that he has been trying to sort of moderate himself and try and fall in line with a more sort of Iraqi leadership. There were complaints and criticism within jihadis that -- that Zarqawi was going his own way. But what he is trying to do now is appeal to Iraqis, appeal to them as a leader, criticize any Sunnis that get involved with the new Iraqi government, calling them traitors, calling anyone, any Sunnis who join the new Iraqi security forces, the army and the police, calling them traitors.

Really, he seems to be setting himself up here as a leader for the Sunnis, into the potential for a civil war, and that is what Zarqawi has been trying to create with his destabilization efforts, his terrorism in Iraq so far -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Let's talk about the timing here, too, because this videotape has come out, this Web video has come out today, on the heels of Osama bin Laden's tape, which was released over the weekend. What's the significance there, because, in the al-Zarqawi Web video, you do see pictures of Osama bin Laden?

ROBERTSON: And it -- it's not clear exactly what -- why he has chosen to release it today and -- and why it was recorded on Friday.

Perhaps, they decided to release it today, coming right after bin Laden's audio message, coming right after the bombings in Egypt, perhaps thinking they would sort of create a big jihadi splash.

Perhaps they recorded it on Friday, and they have only now been able to get it somewhere where they feel secure enough to -- to launch it out on a -- on a Web site, without being -- without having it traced back to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. So, that could be part of it as well.

But, very likely, it's in reaction to the formation of the new Iraqi -- at least the decision, or the agreement, in Iraq of who should be the next prime minister, which has been the main stumbling block to forming a new government.

I think we should look here at -- at the local issues that Zarqawi is playing to. So, more likely, it has to do with the local situation in Iraq, like the agreement over a new prime minister, the likelihood of a new government being formed. These are the issues that is likely appealing to at least's people's emotions, to Sunnis, at this time in Iraq -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Interesting, as you start to connect all the dots here.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson -- thank you for that insight, Nic.

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And...

NGUYEN: Tony.

HARRIS: ... let's turn now to Jim Walsh of MIT. He's an international security analyst. And he joins us on the phone from Cambridge.

And good to talk to you, Jim.

JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Good to talk to you again, tony.

HARRIS: Well, what do you make of this? Is it -- is it about the local scene? Why are we seeing this spate of recordings, tapes now?

WALSH: Well, I think Nic makes a good point that the most likely reason might be the fact that the Iraqi government was finally able to pull out of a -- a stalemate and move forward. And that was roughly the same day, within 24 hours...

HARRIS: Yes.

WALSH: ... of when this tame was allegedly made. So, there's a -- -- a strong argument for that.

It may be, though, that -- that it's not something that has happened in the past.

I think we at least have to keep in mind that it's -- there's at least a potential here that this tape is actually coming in advance of something in the future. You will remember, Tony, that, in the early days, after 9/11, a tape would appear, and then it would be followed by an attack somewhere in Europe or the Middle East.

Now, over time, that relationship grew weaker and weaker. But, if I was in Iraq, I would at least be a little more on -- on alert over the next couple of days, because it may be that this also signals something that could be happening in the future.

But I think the best money would be, as Nic says, that it is tied to the recent progress in forming a government in Iraq.

HARRIS: Is it a sense that perhaps the locals have figured out a way to get out of their own way, and that perhaps this -- this government legitimately has a chance of being formed now, and Zarqawi and bin Laden are essentially saying, no, no, no, not so fast?

WALSH: Well, I think this appears to be a case where both the U.S. and Zarqawi may be in agreement. And the agreement here is that it's absolutely critical as to whether Iraq forms a government. If it cannot form a functioning government, then, the chance that it will slip into civil war, if it is not already in civil war, is very high, indeed.

If it is able to form a government, and that government is able to function and win the confidence of the silent majority of Iraqis and, in particular, the Sunni community, then, the prospects of civil war are not so good.

So, I -- I think everyone has their eye on the same ball here. And that ball is whether this Iraqi government is going to get up and running or not.

HARRIS: What do you make of this? It's -- it's hard to sort of bring it all together for me. "We are defending your honor. I speak to you, my nation" -- he's a Jordanian -- "So, maybe I can find listening ears and good hearts."

His attacks are leading to the deaths of, in many cases, innocents.

WALSH: Absolutely.

But, here, I would draw a distinction, Tony. A lot of those Muslims that Zarqawi has been killing have been Shia. They have been of the Shia community...

HARRIS: Hmm.

WALSH: ... where he has assassinated imams or he has blown up mosques.

They haven't been attacks on Sunnis. And, in this particular case, he's appealing to the Sunni community. And, again, I think, as has been pointed out before...

HARRIS: Yes.

WALSH: ... with the hope that, by winning over that Sunni community, it will foment civil war.

So, I don't think Zarqawi, even if he has toned down a little bit, I don't think he has any compunction whatsoever about attacking Shia Muslims. And -- and I would expect that that is going to continue.

HARRIS: And, Jim, at the top of the tape, he defends the insurgent fight. If it is such a righteous fight, why the need to defend it?

WALSH: Well...

(LAUGHTER)

WALSH: ... you know, that -- that -- that's what a -- a recruiter in his position is going to say.

HARRIS: Hmm. Yes.

WALSH: He's going to try to appeal to the emotions. He's going to try to divide Iraqis along religious lines, and he's going to try to make them a -- a matter of pride.

And, obviously, others -- there have been divisions within the insurgent community. Remember, this may be a message not only for Sunnis, but for the insurgents, where there are different factions. Some of nationalists. Some are simply criminals. Some are foreign fighters who have slipped across the Syrian border.

And, so, some of these defenses, or some of these messages, may be aimed not only at the Sunni community, but at the insurgent community and the insurgent factions as well.

HARRIS: Jim, clue me into your thinking. Are you drawing any connections between the audiotape over the weekend on Sunday, this tape from Zarqawi, and the -- the bombing in Egypt yesterday? Are you -- are you drawing any connections to all this, because there is a suggestion, at least, that the attacks in Egypt, that al Qaeda was behind that?

WALSH: Well, I -- I think there's -- it's more likely to be a tie between the bin Laden tape and this tape than a -- a tie to the Egyptian bombing.

Remember, the Egyptians have had their own homegrown Islamic extremism insurgency of their own for quite some time. In fact, al- Zawahri, the number-two man in al Qaeda, was himself part of Islamic Jihad, before linking up with bin Laden.

So, there has been an -- an unfortunate and long history of these sorts of attacks in Egypt.

And my guess is, without knowing, you know, the forensics of -- of all of the investigation that's going on, that that's probably local and homegrown. But there may be a tie to the bin Laden tape.

The bin Laden-Zarqawi relationship is an interesting one. It has -- they have not been always very close. It has been followed by a period where Zarqawi has pledged allegiance to bin Laden. But Zawahri, the number-two man, has criticized Zarqawi in the past for the beheadings, for some of their other behavior.

So, it -- it's really unclear to me. Even though Zarqawi invokes bin Laden's name, it's not exactly clear to me what the nature of that relationship is.

HARRIS: Are you curious as to the actual production qualities of -- of this video, to know specifically whether or not this was a Zarqawi tape that was spliced together by the radical Islamic Web site to include bin Laden pictures? Are -- are you curious about that?

WALSH: Oh, yes, I think that's a great point. You know, we don't know how this was produced. I -- I'm hoping that our friends and colleagues in the intelligence community are going to be able to work that out. But I think that's one of the big open questions right now. So, it's hard to say at this point, though.

HARRIS: Because you -- you could have -- the -- the Islamic Web site could have created kind of a seamless message out of two separate messages. And, if that's the case, perhaps there is something -- something to the talk that there might be a split among -- between these two men.

WALSH: My guess is that -- and this is only speculation on my part -- my guess is that this is a marriage of convenience...

HARRIS: Mmm.

WALSH: ... that they have real disagreements on strategy and tactics.

I don't think, for example, that bin Laden or al-Zawahri are really that enthusiastic about attacking the Shia mosques and Shia imams. I'm not sure they're -- they're -- that's something that they think that is -- makes sense at this time, from the strategy standpoint. But, at the end of the day, they need each other.

HARRIS: Yes.

WALSH: They help each other. They reinforce each other. So, I think, at least, in lip service, if not in substance, you will see that this is a team that will continue to rely on each other as we go forward.

HARRIS: Jim Walsh is an international security analyst from MIT.

Jim, good to talk to you, as always.

WALSH: Always good to talk to you, Tony.

NGUYEN: In other news, nine men, three women, one life-and-death decision, and it won't be easy to get there, as the Zacarias Moussaoui jury gets down to business, strict procedure and a mountain of evidence to guide these deliberations,

CNN's Kelli Arena is in Alexandria, Virginia, with some perspective on this job ahead.

Kelli, let's talk first about this 40-some page jury form.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, you know, there are 33 questions that the jury has to answer. I have got it right here for you. And they have to go through all of those very carefully. And -- and, of course, that will help them in weighing the evidence that was presented in court, over, you know, two phases of this trial.

The only action that we have heard from the jury today, Betty, is that they actually asked the judge for a dictionary. It was a request that she denied, saying that that would be like introducing new evidence. And she didn't want them to be doing independent investigation, that, if they needed a definition, to get back to her, and that she would provide that.

When the jury and the judge left the courtroom, Moussaoui, as has become his -- his practice, yelled to -- to those who are in the courtroom, and said, "747 fly to London." And -- and I'm only guessing that that has to do with that dream he had that we have all heard about that President Bush will release him, and he will -- that he will be on a plane from New York to London, as, if you remember, that was one of the pieces of evidence that his defense lawyers presented in trying to prove that he was delusional.

But, as you said, the jury has a lot of work ahead of them, Betty. And no word on -- on when we will -- we will be getting the verdict. We have got about nine hours of deliberation so far -- some time this week.

NGUYEN: Yes, it's a wait-and-see mode at this point.

And, at this point, nothing else but asking for a dictionary, no other evidence that the jury has requested?

ARENA: No other evidence, and that they have -- right, no other questions that they have asked. Of course, if -- if they do, we will get that to you.

But, you know, they -- they are going through what was very emotional, sometimes very complicated, you know, testimony and evidence, and -- and that this trial certainly has -- has seen it all.

NGUYEN: All right. We will be watching. Kelli Arena, thank you for that.

Well, much of the focus in a high-profile rape case has been on Duke University and members of its lacrosse team, but a magazine writer says the charges are causing series problems for the woman who says she was a victim of a brutal off-campus attack. We have those details ahead right here on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: In, California a mistrial in a terrorism case. Prosecutors accused an ice cream vendor from Lodi of lying to protect his son. He allegedly told the FBI one thing, then changed his story later. The son is accused of attending an al Qaeda training camp in Pakistan in Sacramento.

Tana Castro of CNN affiliate KCRA has more on what happened.

And, Tana, no one can accuse the jury of rushing to a decision here.

TANA CASTRO, KCRA REPORTER: No, not at all. As a matter of fact, this was day nine for this jury.

Now, you will remember, both Umer Hayat and his son Hamid have both been charged with lying to federal investigators in this case. The father, Umer, is an ice cream vendor out of Lodi, which is a small community just south of Sacramento.

He has been lie -- he has been charged with lying to investigators. And that is the jury that came back today, because there are two different jurors -- juries -- looking into this case.

Hamid's jury, his son's jury, is still deliberating as we speak. But, today, the jury came back with a note to the judge, about 10:00 this morning, for Umer's case, and said, at 10:00 this morning -- the note read, "We have diligently deliberated reviewing both direct and indirect evidence." And this is a quote. "After careful and impartial consideration of all the evidence, we are decisively deadlocked."

So, about 10:30 this afternoon -- 10:30 this morning, the judge came back and said, we understand you -- you have not been able to reach a decision, dismissed the jurors. None of them elected to talk with reporters today. They wouldn't even elaborate on what kind of split decision this was, a big disappointment to defense attorneys.

Defense attorneys have come back and said: We still have another jury deliberating on this case.

We want to know what the evidence was that swayed this jury that got them to a point where they couldn't make a decision.

So, about 10:30 this morning, the elder Hayat's jury came back and said: We are hung. We cannot reach a decision.

HARRIS: And, Tana, let me ask you quickly, the prosecution, does it have the option of trying this case again?

CASTRO: As a matter of fact, they will have 30 days to decide that. Right now, the defense team has come out and said: We will go into court on Friday and ask for Umer Hayat to be released from jail.

Chances are, that is not going to happen right away. The argument was made early on, before this trial started, was, release this man, so he can help with his defense. But they have kept him in -- incarcerated this entire time. So, the prosecutors, at this point, have 30 days to come back and say: We're going to retry this case.

As a matter of fact, they scheduled a press conference for 3:00...

HARRIS: OK.

CASTRO: ... 3:00 this afternoon. And they will -- they will tell us then what their decision is.

HARRIS: Tana Castro from our CNN affiliate KCRA -- Tana, we appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, the controversy is growing, but Cynthia McKinney's legal team is shrinking. A grand jury is still investigating the Georgia congresswoman's run-in with a Capitol police officer last month. Now a prominent Texas civil rights attorney who accused the officer of assaulting McKinney says he's no longer representing her. He didn't explain why, citing attorney-client confidentiality.

McKinney filed for reelection yesterday in Georgia's 4th District, but quickly drew a well-known challenger in the Democratic primary.

For decades, he was known as Deep Throat. It was just last year that the world learned the legendary source who helped bring down the Nixon presidency was W. Mark Felt, a former top official at the FBI. He is speaking out in a new book and speaking exclusively with CNN's Larry King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")

LARRY KING, HOST: How did you know all the things you knew?

W. MARK FELT, DEEP THROAT: Well, I was focusing on the paperwork and the oral work that came to me, just on an over-the-counter basis. So, I was familiar with it all.

KING: So, you -- you see yourself as just doing what any good person would do?

FELT: Yes. Yes.

KING: Some people have said that you were kind of like a Lone Ranger during this scandal, a law enforcement officer acting alone.

(LAUGHTER)

FELT: Well, that's a compliment, in any way, but it's true. I was acting alone, pretty much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: You can watch Felt's only TV interview in its entirety tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." The CNN exclusive starts at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific. Woodward and Bernstein, the journalist whom Felt helped to unravel the Watergate scandal, will also take part in this special hour.

NGUYEN: Tony, how about this? A fast-food fix, hold the guilt.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: Do you believe it?

(CROSSTALK)

NGUYEN: Coming up on LIVE FROM, Ali Velshi shows us how a Happy Meal can also be a healthy one.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Outrage upon outrage, you wonder if it is having -- these prices -- having an impact on Wall Street. Take a look...

NGUYEN: Look at that.

HARRIS: ... at the numbers today, huh? The Dow down most of the day, Betty.

NGUYEN: Mmm-hmm.

HARRIS: Now down 61, 62 points. Oil down 48 cents...

NGUYEN: Mmm-hmm.

HARRIS: ... at $72.88.

More with Ali Velshi, too.

NGUYEN: But those gas prices...

HARRIS: Yes?

NGUYEN: ... not so down.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: No, not at all.

NGUYEN: Not so down...

HARRIS: Sky high and going higher.

NGUYEN: ... unfortunately.

HARRIS: Gas prices seem to be taking a bigger toll on Americans this year than last.

In a CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation, 69 percent say rising prices are causing hardship for them or their families. That's up 11 points from this time last year. Twenty-eight percent report no hardship. That number was 42 percent in April of 2005.

The son of a minister bearing witness in his own defense against federal charges of fraud and conspiracy. We're talking Ken Lay, founder of the once mighty Enron.

And we get the latest from the reporter Reggie Aqui of our affiliate KHOU in Houston.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REGGIE AQUI, KHOU REPORTER: During his second day on the stand, much of what Ken Lay is saying to the jury can be reflected in his daily walk here to the courthouse.

He leaves that building right there, crosses the sidewalk, and then comes here to the front door of the federal courthouse here in Houston. And, when he does, he pretty much only sees two things in his view, the Enron building, prominent at the end of Smith Street, and the media, eagerly awaiting a sound bite. He blames the demise of one on the other.

Today, Ken Lay told the jury that critical articles in "The Wall Street Journal" that came out in the fall of 2001 not only predicted impending doom at the company, but also helped create that doom. Lay says that much of the media then picked up on the story, which was very critical of former CFO Andrew Fastow. And, once the media got a whiff of Fastow's foul side deals, well, he said, Enron's stock plummeted starting the death spiral at Enron.

At the time, Ken Lay stood by his man, supporting his CFO. Despite bad press, he told the jury he had no reason to believe Andy Fastow, a now confessed criminal, wasn't doing a good job.

Now, Ken Lay will continue on the stand today, and probably for the rest of the week. If he's convicted of all six counts that he faces, he could spend the rest of his life in prison.

In Houston, I'm Reggie Aqui for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: It other news, can you get your food fast and still be fit? Well, these days, racking up a big fast-food bill doesn't mean losing a bill of health.

Life in the fast lane is what we are talking about.

HARRIS: Yes.

NGUYEN: CNN's Ali Velshi joins us with some extra options on the menu.

Bring them on, Ali.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: I -- I need some healthy fast food.

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: This is -- this is perfect for me. I'm like the -- I'm the fast-food guy. You know, the other morning, I was -- I was -- I called in about the gas prices.

NGUYEN: Uh-huh.

VELSHI: I was talking -- talking to Tony. You know what I was doing? I was eating.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: But of course. What, you don't cook anymore?

VELSHI: Well, no, I -- I'm on the road a lot. And -- and the problem is that, in this country, when you're on the highway, between cities, the places you eat most are these fast-food operations. Wendy's and McDonald's come to mind.

NGUYEN: Mmm-hmm.

VELSHI: And there are better choices now -- Wendy's announcing that, in their kids' choice, kids' meal, they are going to have the option of deli sandwiches, yogurt. You're going to be able to get granola in there.

NGUYEN: Oh.

VELSHI: Now, they have had -- they have had deli sandwiches out, I think, for about the last month or so, which makes me very happy, because the idea that I can get a -- like, a turkey sandwich with Swiss or something...

NGUYEN: Uh-huh.

VELSHI: ... a little better than the chicken nuggets and...

NGUYEN: Well, but you -- you -- you can't get a kids' meal. You're not a kid.

VELSHI: No, no, no, you can have the deli sandwiches. We grownups cn have that.

NGUYEN: Oh, it's the adult meal.

VELSHI: Besides, I'm not beyond asking -- I'm not beyond driving up to the drive-through and...

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: ... yes, my little kid is very small.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: And ordering a kids' meal anyway?

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: So, that's over at Wendy's.

Over at McDonald's, they have got this new thing called the Go Active! Happy Meal for adults. It debuts today. It's going to be rolled out over the next month. There are exclamation marks after all the -- the new names at McDonald's. I'm not sure why.

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: But you're going to get a -- a premium salad. You can get a water or some other drink. And you get a customizable 15-minute workout DVD, which -- which you can use for any of four things.

Now, you listening to this?

NGUYEN: I'm listening.

VELSHI: Yoga, cardio, core, and strength, because you know...

NGUYEN: Nice.

VELSHI: ... that is what I think about when I drive up to the McDonald's drive-through.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: Is doing that yoga.

VELSHI: Fitness.

NGUYEN: Now, here's the trick, eating that while you're doing yoga in the car and driving.

VELSHI: Yes.

NGUYEN: That's -- that's really something, if you could do all that, Ali.

VELSHI: Yes. No, I -- and I'm not even really going to aim to.

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: You know where the DVD is going to go. If anybody wants them who is watching this, just e-mail us. We will send it to you.

NGUYEN: Send it my way. I could use it.

VELSHI: You know what is interesting, is I bought this the other day. This is Planters.

NGUYEN: I have those, yes.

VELSHI: You have got these?

Well, there are all sorts of different kind of these 100 calorie packs things, which I think is a little lazy. I mean, we have now counted on these people to not change the content of anything that is in them, but to give us 100 calorie packs.

But the fact of the matter is, you know, you grab them. You eat them. You -- you haven't done too much damage.

NGUYEN: Well, I think they're smaller though, because I have them, and they have the little chocolate chip cookies in them and they have the little Oreos.

VELSHI: Yes, they've got all sorts of things, nachos.

NGUYEN: And they're not like the real deal. They're very small and tiny.

VELSHI: No, but you get a little taste. The fact of the matter is, we have not been able to control ourselves with our intake. And that's what part of this leads to. Is that we eat lots and they sell lots. I mean, people sell us -- McDonald's made the point the other day that they actually sell the things people do buy, not the things people say they want to buy.

NGUYEN: You always go to the grocery store with good intentions, right?

VELSHI: The Wendy's thing is that the kids will drive the parents to get it because it's the kids meal, right, so they want the toy. So I say, I'll eat the deli sandwich.

NGUYEN: Just give me the toy. It's like buying the cereal. I remember as a kid, I would buy the cereal just for the toys. And I never really wanted the cereal. I always got in trouble for that. All right Ali, healthy fast food, I like the sound of it. We'll talk to you soon.

VELSHI: Talk to you later.

NGUYEN: Coming up, my conservation with the "Essence" magazine writer who's had unprecedented access to the family of the accuser in the Duke rape investigation. Who is this woman alleging rape and what is her family going through right now? You're going to learn more about it when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: More legal problems for a Duke University lacrosse player accused of rape. Collin Finnerty faces trial in July on an unrelated charge of simple assault in Washington.

Now a judge there revoked an agreement that would have wiped Finnerty's record clean if he stayed out of trouble. Finnerty and Reade Seligmann are accused of raping a dancer at an off-campus party.

Seligmann's attorney wants the prosecution to turn over records on the accuser. He wants to comb the woman's medical, legal and education histories for information he can use to question her character or credibility.

Well Kristal Brent Zook of "Essence" magazine has spent more time with the alleged victim's family than anyone else. She joins us now from Durham, North Carolina, with the latest on this. Thanks for being with us.

KRISTAL BRENT ZOOK, ESSENCE MAGAZINE: Hi, Betty.

NGUYEN: Hi there. You spent more time with this family, yet this family has rarely spent much time at all with the accuser here. Is she just running scared?

ZOOK: She is, and I think understandably. The family has received death threats. They say that she has received death threats, anonymous phone calls. She -- there were even some flyers, they say, that were strewn across the front yard of the family home a couple of weeks ago that had death threats on them.

So it's understandable. No matter what happened that night, March 13th, she is going through a lot right now in the aftermath.

NGUYEN: So where is she going? I mean, is she just staying with person to person to person? Of course she is the mother of two children. Are they with her, too?

ZOOK: They are with her and she is caring for them. She is staying in undisclosed locations, where she's afraid to even tell her parents where she is. It may be one home. It may be a few different homes. She seems to be well as of today, as of last night. She is fine. But I can only imagine what state of mind she is. Her family is very, very worried for her safety and her state of mind.

NGUYEN: I imagine. And we'll get to that in just a moment. But just to highlight this, doesn't she drive by her parents home and if she thinks that somebody else is there, she'll just keep on going, or she'll pick up the phone, and only yell, "Mom I'm OK" and then hang up? I mean, are these some of the things that she's been doing just to let her parents know she's OK?

ZOOK: Right, right, and I happened to be there at the time. I didn't know that she had driven by until after she was gone. But she obviously she didn't stop because she saw the media was there.

So it is that -- I guess that fear of -- she is that fearful. I'm not quite sure why she hangs up the phone that quickly but maybe she thinks someone will find her if she stays on the line too long.

NGUYEN: Let's get into her state of mind because in your article, you write, "relatives even went so far to say she might be in need of psychological attention. They said she called and told her mother that she has started screaming at the sight of white men in the street." Is she in need of psychological help?

ZOOK: Well, you know, they are only guessing at this point. But I think we should be careful about misinterpreting that. Most rape victims, assuming that something did happen that night, do need psychological attention and it is just a normal part of the course of action.

You know, they do need some sort of therapy: 30 percent are severely depressed and about 10 percent actually attempt suicide after these kinds of traumatic events. So this isn't anything unusual that she must be going through. It's a normal response.

NGUYEN: All right, well so that we don't speculate, does she have a history of psychological problems?

ZOOK: Well, I know that the defense is looking into that and they are trying to find information. I think right now what we should go with is what we do know. We don't know much about that past that she has.

I can say that she's a woman who has -- she has a painful past. She has not had an easy life and I think that this -- the events of March 13th and the aftermath has only added to everything that she's been through in her past.

NGUYEN: With all of this fear and focus surrounding her, is there some concern that she might not cooperate with the prosecution here?

ZOOK: I think it is too early to say that. I don't have any indication that that's true. She has cooperated up to this point. She -- the family is happy with the job that they are doing as far as I can tell. They have nothing to say about -- nothing negative to say about the prosecution and the job they are doing. So I think it's speculation to say that she isn't cooperating or won't cooperate. That hasn't happened.

NGUYEN: Well on the "Essence" Web site today, it mentioned the fact that she had a meeting with the famed civil rights attorney Willie Gary. Did that meeting take place and does her family and does she feel like she needs an attorney on her own to represent her in this case so that she can win this case?

ZOOK: Well actually she has not had the meeting with the attorney, Willie Gary, at this point. It was the meeting between Mr. Gary and her mother, and -- so we need to be clear that he has not been hired by the accuser. He simply had a conversation with her mother and her mother did that because both her -- both her mother and father felt that she may need additional legal guidance. And I think any parent would probably think that way. There's a lot involved in this case. The other side has an army of defense attorneys and, you know, it doesn't hurt to speak with someone else who might be able to offer more guidance.

NGUYEN: Kristal Brent Zook of "Essence" magazine spent a lot of time with the alleged victim's family. Thank you for sharing a little bit of that with us today.

ZOOK: Thank you, Betty.

NGUYEN: Tony.

HARRIS: Well, a scare today for workers at a post office near Birmingham, Alabama. Police in Hueytown say a chemical from a damaged box spilled inside the building, making the entire 20-person staff ill. The workers were taken to the hospital.

Some had nausea, others had breathing problems. A hazardous material's team has cleaned up the substance. Police say it is used to make fishing lures and was so concentrated it damaged the tile floor.

Still ahead, the lesser of two evils? As the pope asks questions about AIDS and condoms, observers ask whether the Catholic Church is in for a major policy shift. We're live from Rome when LIVE FROM returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: For devout Catholics, the news is jaw dropping. Long- standing church policy prohibits all forms of artificial contraception, but now Pope Benedict himself wants senior church officials to take a closer look at condoms specifically as a way to help prevent the spread of AIDS. It's nowhere near a papal endorsement, but the very discussion has Rome reeling.

CNN's Vatican analyst John Allen joins me now. John, good to see you. Good to talk to you.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Tony.

HARRIS: Well, this pope wasn't advertised as a man who would ever enter into this discussion. What is going on here?

ALLEN: Well, I tell you, Tony, what is happening is that for the last several years, there has been a very open debate at the highest levels of the church on what is actually a fairly narrow question. The question is, in the case of a married couple where one of them is HIV positive and the other isn't, could a condom be used in that situation to try to reduce the risk of transmitting the disease?

And you have had, over the last several months, a number of cardinals -- so, of course, the princes of the church, the pope's most senior advisers -- take different positions on that question. Some saying yes, some saying no.

Now, the Vatican doesn't like a situation where cardinals are disagreeing in public because that creates the appearance of division and of confusion. So I think it's the most natural thing in the world, in a way, that Benedict XVI would ask his aides here in the Vatican to try to bring some order to that discussion.

What has happened is they have been working on a document. It's underway. Early indications are that document may well take a favorable stance on the question. Now, again, let's bear in mind this is not a general OK to condoms. This is an approval in what is a pretty carefully circumscribed situation having to do with a married couple.

HARRIS: Interesting. Would you agree there is no way the church can open the door to condom use under any circumstances without that quickly becoming a discussion about contraception?

ALLEN: Yes, of course, Tony, that's exactly the concern. I mean, what Vatican officials here will argue is that what they are talking about doing would in no way indicate any change in the church's firm condemnation of contraception, because the argument runs like this.

But in that situation I've described -- that is, a married couple where one has AIDS and the other doesn't -- the use of the condom there is not intended to prevent pregnancy. It's intended to prevent disease. And therefore, it's not contraception at all.

But certainly, in the broader court of public opinion, for the Vatican to embrace condoms in any context certainly is going to invite -- well, first of all, it's going to be big news. And, secondly, it's going to invite discussions about the deeper teaching here on contraception. I think the concern here, in some quarters, is that that discussion might get out of control.

HARRIS: How about this as a challenge from the left of the church? Is it being talked about in those terms?

ALLEN: Well, you know, I actually wouldn't use those ideological categories of left and right. I think this is much more a question of kind of pastoral realities welling up. The truth is, is that particularly for bishops in the developing world -- places like Africa, Asia, Latin America -- you know, they're -- in some cases you're talking about bishops who have populations 50 percent of which are HIV positive.

And these kinds of questions are just the stuff of daily life, and I think many of them have, for some time, been pressing the authorities in the church to try to take a new look at this question. And that's where this energy is coming from.

Let's also not forget that of those cardinals who have been discussing this question, the strong majority actually -- who have expressed themselves publicly, the strong majority have been in favor of a more permissive stance, again, on this particular question.

There's no discussion about approving condemns outside of marriage, because, obviously, the church believes that any sexual activity outside of marriage is morally wrong. But in the context of marriage and in the context of preventing disease, I think this is seen as a gesture of compassion and a response to the very real pastoral realities that are facing the church in many parts of the world.

HARRIS: CNN's Vatican analyst, John Allen. John, we appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you, sir.

ALLEN: You bet, Tony.

HARRIS: What if the virus that causes AIDS could be stopped? That's the perspective of "CNN PRESENTS: THE END OF AIDS, A GLOBAL SUMMIT WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON." It premiers Saturday at 8:00 on CNN.

And here's another question for you. Coming up, what are the odds? We're going to tell you why one family has not one, not two, but three reasons to celebrate. The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: All right. Once was not enough. Twice still didn't cut it. So is the Dunn family of Arizona done with April 17 now?

Kim Holcomb reports from our Phoenix affiliate KPNX on a happy, happy, happy birthday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KIM HOLCOMB, KPNX REPORTER (voice-over): At first glance, it's clear Conner Dunn resembles his dad.

SALLY VANCE, MOTHER: He's got his little button nose and chubby cheeks. He's got my little mouth.

HOLCOMB: But the baby also got something from his father's side of the family not typically traced to genetics: a birthday.

MIKE DUNN, FATHER: Yes, I did it right. I had a boy on my birthday.

HOLCOMB: April 17th, the day Tom Dunn came into the world, 27 years later, his son Michael did, too.

TOM DUNN, CONNER'S GRANDFATHER: Just the miracle of it is one thing. That's great to start with. But then to have him on your birthday, wow.

HOLCOMB: A charming coincidence, but it seemed impossible to repeat. Conner's due date was April 19, two days too late. Still, his parents believed.

VANCE: I just always knew it would happen, because it was just fate.

HOLCOMB: And just like that, Conner came early, joining dad and grandpa as an impressive statistic anomaly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be about 7.5 times 10 to the negative sixth.

HOLCOMB: Professor Mark Nealy (ph) converting chance into hard numbers. The odds of three family members sharing the same birthday, about one in 133,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be almost as likely that somebody could dial 480 and then just mash the keys randomly and get my phone number.

T. DUNN: It's still got me flabbergasted.

HOLCOMB: A rare occurrence, now family tradition. Time will tell if Conner will follow in his ancestors' footsteps.

VANCE: I believe so. I think he can do it. I think it's in his genes.

HOLCOMB: A happy, happy, happy birthday for years to come.

T. DUNN: He's something else -- something else, isn't he?

(END VIDEOTAPE) NGUYEN: Oh, how cute is he? All right. Same birthday, same hairline. Yes, you know they're related, right?

HARRIS: Cute little peanut head baby. What is it, 4/17?

NGUYEN: 4/17, yes, April 17, the date.

HARRIS: Hey.

NGUYEN: I'm thinking with that kind of luck and those chances.

HARRIS: Are you thinking lottery? Is that what you're thinking?

NGUYEN: I'm thinking lottery.

HARRIS: A little pick three action there?

NGUYEN: Folks, pick your numbers.

HARRIS: Hello!

NGUYEN: All right, our thanks to KPNX and reporter Kim Holcomb for letting us in on that triple birthday party.

HARRIS: More LIVE FROM, including Ali Velshi with the closing bell. There he is. What's up, doctor? We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com