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Moussaoui Headed For Federal Prison; Propaganda War Heats Up

Aired May 04, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he talked to victims' families and America in general, and every word was beamed around the world. Now, though Zacarias Moussaoui will be talking mostly to himself. He's headed -- headed to a lifetime of solitary confinement in the nation's most secure federal prison.
CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena, covered this trial and brought us all the action from yesterday.

Hey, Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Kyra.

Well, you know, before Moussaoui got a chance to speak, he was forced to listen to three 9/11 family members who chose to address him, to confront him, face to face in court.

Rosemary Dillard was one of the family members. She lost her husband on September 11. And she told Moussaoui: "You have ruined my life. You took the most important person in the world to me."

Moussaoui, who had entered the courtroom all smiles, flashing a victory sign, was clearly rattled by that confrontation. When he finally did speak, he used his last opportunity to attack the United States. He called the trial a wasted opportunity to understand why people like he and 9/11 ringleader Mohamed Atta hate America. He said: "We will come back another day. As long as you don't hear, America, you will feel. God curse America. God bless Osama bin Laden. You will never get him."

And his utter lack of remorse, very disturbing to the family members who were there listening to him. Judge Leonie Brinkema told him: "Moussaoui, you came here to die a martyr in a big bang of glory, but, to paraphrase the poet T.S. Elliot, will die with a whimper."

Moussaoui tried to interrupt her, but Brinkema got the last word. And she told him: "You will never again get the chance to speak. And that is an appropriate and fair ending."

Kyra, we did get an opportunity, after the hearing to speak with Moussaoui's defense lawyers. And I started by asking them if they have ever gotten a thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EDWARD MACMAHON, ATTORNEY FOR ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI: Well, we just saw him after the -- after he was sentenced. And I don't think he's ever said thank you.

ARENA: Mmm-hmm. What did he say?

MACMAHON: That he's -- he's -- I think he is as surprised at the verdict as -- as some other observers would be.

ARENA: He's -- he has been very disparaging toward you in court, in his writings. How did you cope with that, with him?

GERALD ZERKIN, ATTORNEY FOR ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI: I mean, just sort of ignored it. I mean, that's not -- that's not a big deal to -- to be called names by him. It rolls right off your back, and you just go about your job.

ARENA: You have had a chance, Gerry, to look at those verdict forms and to try to figure out what made this jury tick. What is your feeling as to why they came up with the sentence they did?

ZERKIN: Well, you know, it's speculative. But, obviously, when you look at it, you focus on the fact that they were looking at his role in the offense, that he wasn't directly involved in it. And that is always difficult, for the government to get a jury to execute somebody, when they are tangential to the actual events, when it's not a trigger man, when it's not somebody who is even there. That's a reach.

MACMAHON: I was surprised that the issue of martyrdom didn't garner any votes from the jury, because, you know, I sincerely believed, since this case started, that that's what he was trying to do, was to finish his martyrdom mission.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Kyra, interestingly, both those men say that there were two Moussaouis, basically, the one that was boisterous in court and the -- you know, the jihadi, and then the one that they saw in private. They said he was never shackled when they met with him. He never cursed. He never tried to attack them.

As much as he said he tried -- he would love to kill Americans any time anywhere, he never once was threatening toward them. And, on another note, Kyra, Moussaoui does still seem convinced that he will be freed before George W. Bush ends his presidential term. He said it again in court today.

And both those lawyers who represented him say that he believes that 100 percent.

PHILLIPS: Kelli, this has been a long haul for you. I have got to tell you, you have done a great job bringing us all the angles...

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: ... and all the exciting parts of the interesting testimony. That's for sure.

(LAUGHTER)

ARENA: It has been exciting.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

ARENA: I tell you, never saw a trial like this one.

PHILLIPS: No doubt. It's unprecedented.

Kelli, thanks so much.

Well, jurors found Moussaoui to be a relatively minor player in al Qaeda and 9/11. Most of al Qaeda's major figures are still on the loose. Here's a fact check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has been in U.S. custody since his March 2003 capture in Pakistan. The U.S. considers him the number-three man.

The 9/11 Commission report says Mohammed was the principal architect of the September 11 attack plan. He's also been linked to almost every al Qaeda attack since the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Today, Mohammed is being held at an undisclosed location.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a native Jordanian and radical Islamic cleric who heads al Qaeda in Iraq. The United States has a $25 million bounty for al-Zarqawi's capture. Just six months ago, Iraqi officials confirmed their security forces once had al-Zarqawi in custody, but he was ultimately released because they didn't know his identity. In the past, al-Zarqawi has claimed responsibility for a string of terror attacks and bombings throughout Iraq. He's suspected to have been involved in the beheadings of Iraqi hostages.

Ayman al-Zawahri is reputed to be the second in command of al Qaeda. U.S. investigators believe al-Zawahri played an important role in the 9/11 attacks. He's also under indictment for his alleged role in the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. The Egyptian native is considered Osama bin Laden's closest adviser and personal physician.

His current whereabouts are unknown, as is the case with al Qaeda's mastermind Osama bin Laden, who is still at large, despite a $25 million bounty on his head. Bin Laden is thought to be hiding in the lawless area between the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan. He's been on the FBI's 10 most wanted list since 1999. Bin Laden faces 224 counts of murder for his alleged involvement in the U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa.

Just last month, bin Laden released another audiotaped message. In it, he focused on what he referred to as a Zionist crusader war on Islam. One example he cited was the Danish cartoons that defamed the Prophet Mohammed.

(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIPS: Well, he's al Qaeda's point man in Iraq, but does Abu Musab al-Zarqawi known his AK from a hole in the ground? The U.S. Army is wondering that today. Check out the videotape.

It shows Zarqawi looking more like Gomer Pyle than John Wayne.

CNN senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us now with more -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the U.S. military today fired a potshot in the propaganda war against Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, using some of his own videotape against him.

The U.S. military in Baghdad released what it said were captured outtakes of the videotape that Zarqawi released on April 25 to show that he was firmly in control of al Qaeda and a -- a fierce military leader. At a military briefing in Baghdad, it was pointed out that this video showing him with an American SAW, or squat automatic weapon, showed he could barely fire it and didn't seem to be familiar with the weapon at all.

And the military spokesman at the briefing openly mocked him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJOR GENERAL RICK LYNCH, U.S. MILITARY COMMAND IN BAGHDAD SENIOR SPOKESMAN, U.S. ARMY: This piece, you don't see. As he walks away, he's wearing his black uniform and his New Balance tennis shoes, as he moves to this white pickup truck. And his close associates around him, his trusted advisers, do things like grab the hot barrel of the machine gun and burn themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: The implication there is that Zarqawi is not really much of a warrior after all and isn't familiar with those weapons. But, again, that was an American weapon, probably captured, perhaps obtained on the black market, a weapon which experts tell me is quite difficult to fire if you're not familiar with it, which may explain some of it.

But, of course, the bigger question here is that this is a war of ideas, and the U.S. military obviously feels that there's some value in denigrating and mocking Zarqawi in this videotape. And, coincidentally, Kyra, it comes on a day when there are hearings on Capitol Hill in the House about how the United States might be losing the propaganda war to terrorists, because their videos, which mock the United States, which allege mistreatment of Muslims at the hands of U.S. soldiers and make fun of President Bush, seem to be resonating in the Arab world.

So, the Pentagon may have a victory today of sorts in the propaganda war, but it's not clear at all who is winning the long war when it comes to propaganda.

PHILLIPS: Jamie, thanks.

Thirteen shootings in three weeks, 10 people dead, a terrifying time for Washington, D.C., and its suburbs. And it's being relived in a Maryland courtroom.

John Allen Muhammad is on trial for six of those sniper shootings and acting as his own attorney. He says he will take one minute longer than the prosecution to lay out his case. A jury of seven women and five men have been chosen to hear it.

Muhammad's accomplice and protege, Lee Boyd Malvo, is expected to testify against him.

A delayed execution fuels the fight against capital punishment in Ohio. Fifty-seven-year-old Joseph Clark was set to die by lethal injection Tuesday for killing a gas station attendant in 1984. When the grim procedure began, Clark sat up and said, "It don't work."

Attendants shut a curtain, separating Clark from witnesses, but he could still be heard moaning and groaning. In all, the execution was delayed almost 90 minutes. Prison officials blame a collapsed vein. Death penalty opponents say it proves their point that lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment. Apart from that, the American Civil Liberties Union objects to closing the curtain.

The images are revolting, the stories behind them even worse. We spent some time yesterday on the hearings in Congress aimed at the riding the Internet of child -- or ridding the Internet, rather, of child pornography and the adults who produce it.

The panel heard from one young victim whose case drew international attention in part for the ingenious detective work that cracked it. Misha (sic) Allen -- or Masha Allen, rather, now 13, told the lawmakers of horrific abuse at the hands of her adoptive father. It began the day that she arrived from Russia just eight years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MASHA ALLEN, 13-YEAR-OLD INTERNET CHILD PORN VICTIM: When I was 5 years old, Matthew Mancuso, a Pittsburgh businessman, who was a pedophile, adopted me.

I was -- I was rescued almost three years ago when the FBI raided his home in a child pornography setting. After I was rescued, I learned that during the five years I lived with Matthew, he took hundreds of pornographic pictures of me and traded them over the Internet.

The abuse started the night I got there. Matthew didn't have a bedroom for me. He made me sleep in his bed from the very beginning. He molested me all the time. He made me dress up in adult's clothes and even pretended to marry me. Sometimes, he kept me chained in the basement, because he didn't want me to grow up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How frequently were you chained in the basement? ALLEN: Maybe like a couple -- like maybe once a month or something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For how long?

ALLEN: A couple hours. Or, sometimes, he would leave me down there for a while.

I was rescued when the FBI discovered that Matthew had a lot of child pornography on his computer. They came to raid his house. They didn't know I would be there. I got much more upset when I found out that the pictures of me that he put on the Internet -- I had no idea he had done that. When I found out about it, I asked our lawyer to get them back. He told me that we couldn't do that.

I found out that they would be there forever. That's when I got mad and decided to go public -- public with my story. Usually, when a kid is hurt, the abuser goes to prison, and the abuse is over. But because Matthew put my picture on the Internet, the abuse is still going on.

Some people say, we can't control what is on the Internet, but that's ridiculous. If we can put a man on the moon, we can make the Internet safe for kids. That's just common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, Allen told her story to the House panel investigating the sexual exploitation of children on the Internet.

More tears, plus a theory in the deadly explosion at West Virginia's Sago Coal Mine. Experts say that it was a lightning strike. They suggest an electrical charge made its way inside that mine, then traveled down the conveyor belt, to where the miners had just arrived for work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD GATES, ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION TEAM: At approximately 6:26, an explosion occurred in the O2 left seals, damaging all the seals, as well as ventilation controls for approximately 1,000 feet in the second left and two north mains. Multiple lightning strikes also occurred near the mine at this -- around this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Twelve miners died, most a day or two after the explosion that trapped them. Their families are having the last word at this three-day hearing, praising rescuers and demanding changes, starting with the Mine Safety and Health Administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM CAMPBELL, SISTER-IN-LAW OF SAGO MINE DISASTER VICTIM: Today, MSHA is not working. It does not work. And, in my opinion -- and this is just my opinion -- it failed us, as FEMA failed Hurricane Katrina victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Federal and state authorities have yet to complete their investigations. West Virginia's governor wants a report by July 1.

Coming up, trapped underground with nothing but a few essentials lowered to them through a small tube -- it's a survivor story down under.

Plus, it's almost time for hurricane season. If you have an insurance fear or frustration, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at LIVEFROM@CNN.com. Carolyn Gorman of the Insurance Information Institute will answer your questions right here on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Dawn is breaking in Beaconsfield, Tasmania, but most of the town is already up. They are hoping this will be the day two -- or the day that two trapped gold miners are finally rescued.

Reporter Rowan Dix of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is there. He's with us on the phone.

Rowan, how much closer are we to a rescue?

ROWAN DIX, JOURNALIST, AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION: Well, it's difficult to tell.

Certainly, the drilling here is under way to reach the men. Rescuers are drilling a 16-meter-long tunnel through very, very hard and abrasive rock about a kilometer underground. Essentially, earlier in the day, they drilled a pilot hole. And that took around about 24 hours to do.

Now, this tunnel, because it's -- it's much bigger, they are now drilling the one that is about a meter in diameter. That's expected to take significantly longer. So, at this stage, in terms of a rescue, probably, the earlier we would be looking at would be Saturday morning, local time, which is still more than 24 hours away from now.

PHILLIPS: So, Rowan, remind our viewers why they have been able to survive more than a week. It's because they are in some type of steel cage? Is that right?

DIX: That's right. It's a remarkable story of survival, being hailed here as a miracle.

The men were underground when there was a small earthquake, and it caused a rockfall. Now, the -- the body of one of their colleagues, Larry Knight, unfortunately, was -- was found in the wreckage. He was found dead about a day after the earthquake.

Now, they -- but these two men, Brant Webb and Todd Russell, were missing for several days, five days until they were actually discovered alive. And then there was a -- a great sense of euphoria that spread through the town. People said they had never given up hope, but I think people who were detached from the emotion of it all had probably made a rational decision that the men were probably dead.

They were in this -- this cage, which is very, very small, about 1.2 square meters, so, not much room to stand up or move around or do anything. As the rock came down, it appears a very large rock anchored itself on top of the cage. And, then, as the rest of the rockfall came down, they were protected from it.

So, almost a kilometer underground, with the -- the ground falling down on them, this cage, this small yellow, sort of 1.2-by- 1.2-meter cage, actually protected them and -- and saved the lives.

And they were discovered about five days after that, when their voices were heard among the rubble.

PHILLIPS: We also heard yesterday that these survivors, as tough as this has been, they have also been keeping a pretty good sense of humor. That's what another journalist had told us. Have you had a chance to -- to hear or to learn about any of that conversation?

DIX: Absolutely.

I mean, the -- the men who went about five days -- or six days -- without any food or water, they -- after they were discovered, they very quickly in remarkable spirits. A -- a great, larrikin sense of humor is how it has been described.

For example, when -- on Saturday, when they were talking to them, it turned out that one of them had sort of jokingly said that he was now resigning from the mine, this having happened. And he asked if the Saturday newspaper could be sent down to him, so that he could start looking for another job.

Also, soon after they were rescued, they started asking for things like bacon and eggs. Just after they were rescued, or just -- just -- not rescued -- just after they were discovered, and contact was established, they managed to start getting some diet pills down to them, and some high-energy drinks, some high-protein drinks. Their -- their diet has now been expanded to a few other things.

But, yes, they have been -- they have been joking about their diet, joking about the -- the football. And the rescuers now have a -- a permanent psychologist who is down there talking to them, and -- and keeping them going. And, so, they -- they have been joking about a lot of things. Their spirits have been remarkably good.

And, as I said, the example of the -- the man who wanted the Saturday paper sent down to him, so that he could look for another job, was -- that -- that -- that cracked everyone up. It was -- it was quite hilarious.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: That's pretty amazing. Humor in difficult situations can help a lot. That's for sure.

Rowan Dix, from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, sure appreciate your report. Thanks, Rowan.

DIX: Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And we're getting word of another earthquake in the South Pacific, this one measuring 6.0, near the islands of Tonga. Just yesterday, that area was rocked by an even stronger quake. It generated a small tsunami, really small, and prompted warnings for Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, and New Zealand. But Tonga never got the word.

Disaster officials blame it on a systems malfunction in Hawaii.

Well, it's a show that makes celebrities out of the kids next door. So, who is the genius behind the "American Idol" marketing machine? Ali Velshi takes a look. Maybe we could even get him to hum a few bars.

What do you think, Ali Velshi?

At least I know he will dance.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: More LIVE from coming up after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Paris is gone. Elliott is hanging in there. And whatever happened to that dreamboat Ace?

Well, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, shame on you. You're neglecting your "American Idol" responsibilities. Love the show, hate the show, well, you got to give it up for the marketing, the maneuvering, and the money machine, you know, that this country is definitely pumping. It's the most successful TV show, period.

CNN's Ali Velshi is a big "Idol" head, or is it that he has a big idol head?

Either way, Ali, the business of American...

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know what it feels like to be discovered. You know, Kyra, you -- I was on your show long before I was on anywhere else.

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: I know what it feels like.

PHILLIPS: We discovered you.

VELSHI: You did.

PHILLIPS: You were the business idol of CNN. VELSHI: There you go.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: And, you know, here in Washington, tomorrow night, after "THE SITUATION ROOM," the whole -- the whole staff is going out for karaoke.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Oh. So, what are you going to sing?

VELSHI: I'm -- I'm working on something.

PHILLIPS: Really?

VELSHI: Yes. I was -- I was humming a few bars when Engelbert Humperdinck was on your show...

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: ... before this is where the money is.

What I do is for the love of it, Kyra. But, if you want the money, "American Idol," not just for the folks who win, not just for those folks who are voted off the stage, but for the producers, for the networks, and everyone involved.

Something like 45 million people tuned in last night. Simon Cowell, rumor has it, is going to pick up about 36 million bucks a year for his role at being nasty.

PHILLIPS: For being a jerk?

VELSHI: You have -- you have seen him, right? You know what he does.

PHILLIPS: He's -- all I -- the only time I have ever seen him, he's yelling at people and being mean.

VELSHI: Right. He's yelling at people. He's mean. And he's getting paid a ton of money for this.

And here's the funny thing about this. It seems obvious to everybody who watches "American Idol" what a fantastic hit is -- it is. I mean, everybody talks about this. All sorts of people watch it. Guess what? When they tried to pitch this show a few years back, they pitched it to pretty much every network around, and no one took it.

And -- and nobody was interested. They didn't get why this show was so successful in Britain. They didn't know who these Brits and three guys same Simon were, Simon Fuller, Simon Cowell and another guy named Simon.

PHILLIPS: But, Ali, that's the television business. VELSHI: Totally.

PHILLIPS: Think about trying to get a job in this business, how many tapes we sent out.

VELSHI: Totally. I'm still waiting for the call.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: And you get the -- you get the big fat denial.

And now -- oh, yes. Here you are on CNN.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: I know I am perfect for somebody.

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: I know I am perfect for somebody.

PHILLIPS: You got to take lots of rejection in the business, whether it's, you know, broadcast journalism or "American Idol."

VELSHI: Yes.

And that's what -- that's what -- that's what Simon and I have in common. We have got the -- we have got the ability to handle the rejection in common. What we don't have in common is the paycheck.

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: I'm sure I can divide my paycheck into 36 in some fashion, but not the way he can. He can divide it by a million.

PHILLIPS: Yes, but, then, you would be mean and you would be yelling at people.

VELSHI: That's right.

PHILLIPS: And, you know, you would get real arrogant. And we don't want that to happen to you.

VELSHI: We're all about the love.

I got to tell you, I can't figure out, though, what the absolute draw is. I -- find the show interesting. I don't get why everybody finds it so interesting. But it is compelling. It is real.

PHILLIPS: It's like "Star Search."

VELSHI: Totally...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Remember when we used to watch "Star Search," you know, way back when?

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Yes, but we were not all about being mean. That's the interesting thing.

PHILLIPS: Though -- well, that's true. No, that's true.

I think people just, in general, love to see, you know, the kid next door make it big.

VELSHI: Yes.

PHILLIPS: The struggling artist, whomever, make it big.

VELSHI: It's -- it's very cathartic.

And it -- look, whatever it is, the formula has worked. It worked in Britain first. It was a big hit. These guys couldn't sell it. Rupert Murdoch himself apparently got involved in this and told the FOX executives who were considering "American Idol," just do a deal with this guy. Get this thing on TV.

And look at what has happened since then. It's an American event.

VELSHI: Well, Murdoch is quite the businessman. He has made some pretty powerful decisions. And it's earned him a lot of money.

VELSHI: And you know where you're going to find me tomorrow night.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: What are you going to be doing, Ali?

VELSHI: Karaoke.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: All right.

VELSHI: What do you think I should work -- what should I work on?

PHILLIPS: Oh, man.

VELSHI: I have got to tell you, Engelbert got me going the other day, when he was on here.

PHILLIPS: Yes. But then you have to, like, fake the sideburns. And I don't know if that's going to work with you.

VELSHI: Yes. That's probably not going to work so much with me.

PHILLIPS: We will come up with something for you. By the time -- let's see -- by the time I see you for closing bell...

VELSHI: I will see you in a half-an-hour.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: We will get a song.

PHILLIPS: ... we will have a song for you.

VELSHI: Always a pleasure to see you.

PHILLIPS: All right. Great to see you, Ali.

High winds, falling trees and power outages -- hurricane season can wreak havoc on your home and property. So, how should you prepare? Your e-mails posed to an insurance expert next -- when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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