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Bush Picks Michael Hayden as CIA Director; U.N. Struggles to Aid Displaced in Darfur

Aired May 08, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips.
He's got four stars on his shoulders, but is this the man that's ready for a new starring role? He's Air Force General Michael Hayden, tapped by President Bush to head the CIA just three days after Porter Goss abruptly quit.

Let's get more of an inside look from our national security correspondent, David Ensor, in Washington.

David, you were saying earlier this may be one of Donald Rumsfeld's least favorite.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. He's a four-star general, but he has -- he has crossed swords with Donald Rumsfeld in the past, so he should hardly be seen as the Pentagon's man at the CIA.

He's first and foremost an intelligence officer, one of the smartest people in town, and described by many as the best intelligence briefer in the business. But, of course, he has some problems with confirmation, because he was head of the National Security Agency when the -- when the warrantless wiretap program was started, and that's controversial. There'll be questions about that for sure.

And of course, we've heard from some senior Republicans who say that they don't think a general should lead the CIA.

The message from his boss, director John Negroponte, the top intelligence officer in the nation, today to the White House press corps was one of reassurance to the workforce at CIA, that here's a man who's going to bring leadership and stability to a place that has not been stable at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN NEGROPONTE, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR: The intent was to convey a message of reassurance that, going forward, we want to build on the existing strength of the CIA, and particularly I want to emphasize that we want to stay on the president's course of increasing their human intelligence and their analytic capabilities by 50 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ENSOR: And Negroponte announced that he plans -- that General Hayden plans to ask Steve Cappas (ph) to be his No. 2 at the CIA. That is another message to the workforce at the CIA that will be very reassuring indeed.

Cappas (ph) is someone who was basically forced out under Porter Goss by some of the people around him. That was regarded as one of the worst mistakes that Mr. Goss made by many of those at the CIA. So this will be a very reassuring sign that things are back on track or could be, in the view of people at Central Intelligence Agency -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now, David, we heard Negroponte talk about human intelligence, but when you want to talk about Hayden's experience. He's an expert with regard to satellites and technological types of surveillance, but does he know how to actually train men and women to go inside these terrorist organizations?

ENSOR: Well, that's a very good question and one that he's going to be asked, I'm sure, at the hearings. He's going to have a steep learning curve in the human intelligence area. There's no question about that, although he has been Negroponte's deputy and has been thinking and working on these issues somewhat in the last year or so. But you're right. That is one of the weaknesses. He is a smart guy, though. He'll learn fast.

ENSOR: David Ensor, thanks so much.

He might trade his uniform for a pinstriped suit, but for critics of Michael Hayden, that won't cut it. His nomination is already sending up all kinds of red flags on Capitol Hill. Let's get straight to our congressional correspondent, Andrea Koppel, for more.

Hi, Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, to give you a sense as to just how surprised the White House was by what we saw in the Sunday talk shows, with some pretty senior Republicans not just reserving judgment, but actually coming out kind of strongly questioning the Hayden nomination.

You had this morning at the crack of dawn, the national security adviser going out and doing interviews so that not just the critics would be seen in all the morning shows today, but you would is also have the administration's opinion.

Two key Republicans on the Senate Intelligence Committee, which will hold the hearings to confirm General Hayden, Senator Pat Roberts, who is the chairman, reserving judgment. You also had another member, Senator Saxby Chambliss, another conservative Republican, questioning the fact that General Hayden has this military connection, raising concern about that.

To give you a feeling, also, Kyra as to just how dramatic the difference is, a year ago you had Senator Pat Roberts calling General Hayden an outstanding nomination to become John Negroponte's deputy. This time he's withholding judgment.

Another voice, a very prominent voice and powerful voice over on the House side is Peter Hoekstra. He's the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. He doesn't have a vote over here in the Senate when it comes down to the hearings, but he certainly sent a very strong signal to the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER HOEKSTRA (R-MI), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Signals that we are not that concerned about having an independent intelligence community, independent of the Department of Defense. And the second thing I believe that it starts to send a signal is that the director of national intelligence is going to become more of an operational office rather than an executive office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: So the two main concerns by critics -- that have been raised by critics, Kyra, one is the fact that General Hayden has this military connection. Concern that people like the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, and the Pentagon are trading too much on the intelligence turf and perhaps exercising too much influence.

And also the fact that General Hayden, former head of the NSA, not only set up this warrantless surveillance program but he also went out and defended it on behalf of the White House. Questions being raised as to whether or not he stepped over the line by doing that, as opposed to what most in the intelligence community have done which is to not get involved in politics or in policy, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: How soon could we see -- do you think these hearings could be right around the corner?

KOPPEL: That's certainly going to be what the White House wants and the pressure, they'll be lighting the fire under Chairman Roberts' feet to get it done as soon as possible.

Obviously, a very important position. We're looking at the Memorial Day recess just a couple of weeks down the road. No date has been set, but you can bet that they're going to try to get one set as soon as possible.

PHILLIPS: Andrea Koppel on the Hill. Thanks, Andrea.

Three years and three months of heartbreak coupled with anger on display in a Rhode Island courtroom. That's where a man convicted of starting a deadly nightclub fire is being sentenced this week. I'm sure you'll remember, 100 people were killed at The Station where Daniel Biechele was in charge of a fireworks display for the band Great White. That was back in February of 2003.

And in a plea deal he'll serve no more than 10 years in prison. First, though, he has to listen to victims' relatives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) EILEEN DIBONAVENTURA, RELATIVE OF VICTIM: The fact that our son and others were placed in harm's way is unforgivable. No excuse is acceptable.

The shock of turning on the TV to hear the weather forecast that horrible night and suddenly seeing footage of a raging inferno was terrifying. Then I heard there was a concert there, and suddenly a sick feeling of sheer terror and fear overwhelmed me.

I watched in horror and prayed to God there was no one inside there. The death toll continued to rise, and we were told that all burn victims have family members with them at hospitals and those of us left were waiting for our loved ones to be identified. We died inside at that point.

But that point the whole atmosphere became surreal to us. There was sobbing and sadness everywhere. A parent's worse nightmare had come true for us. Why did this have to happen?

Our misery had just begun. We loved Al so much. The thought of living without him is unfathomable. My insides began to quiver and stayed that way for months. We have endured enormous pain over our loss.

On Sunday we returned to Crown Plaza with other families, waiting to hear of our loved one. We were taken to the site by way of caravan of buses. The impact of that ride haunts me. We smelled the smoke and saw the actual carnage left behind. Knowing that our loving son and so many others were trapped, with no realistic time or means of escape, was a question that went through our minds and body.

Our son and so many others perished while those responsible for the deadly fire fled to safety. Our family name ended when our son perished that horrible night. We will never see our son pursue his dreams or marry, or be able to enjoy grandchildren. We have been sentenced to life without parole.

We seek justice, your honor. It is our opinion that harsh consequences are warranted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And charges are still pending against the two brothers who owned that club. We expect to hear from other victims' relatives later this afternoon.

Now the powder keg of Darfur, all this over a misunderstanding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Keep driving! Keep driving!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean?

ROBERTSON: I don't know. Are you OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Believe it or not, that's our CNN's Nic Robertson amid an outraged crowd of Sudanese refugees. They were trying to kill an interpreter for the Oxfam relief organization who they thought was a government spy.

It happened during a visit by the U.N.'s undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs, who also had to flee for his life.

Over the past three years, thousands of Sudanese have been killed in the Darfur region. Millions of them have been forced from their homes. It's a humanitarian emergency, and President Bush says he's trying to respond.

Mr. Bush says that Friday's peace accord between the Sudanese government and rebels is just one step toward peace. Now he wants Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to ask the United Nations to send a larger peacekeeping force to help prevent that type of violence. He's also asking for an additional $225 million in food aid to fight the starvation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our goal in Darfur is this. We want civilians to return safely to their villages and rebuild their lives. That work has begun, and completing it will require even greater effort by many nations.

First, America and other nations must act to prevent a humanitarian emergency and then help rebuild that country. America is the leading provider of humanitarian aid, and this year alone we account for more than 85 percent of the food distributed by the World Food Program in Sudan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Genocide, there's just no other way to describe Darfur right now. Every day the people face it, violence, starvation and intense suffering. Nic Robertson takes us inside one of Darfur's most dangerous areas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Fires on the Darfur horizon, it's what we were looking out for as we flew on an aid helicopter into one of the most dangerous towns in Sudan's war-torn region.

(on camera) Those fires seem to be coming from villages. We didn't circle in and take a close look, but it appears there will be more villages on fire. This has been the trademark, if you will, of the Janjaweed militia.

(voice-over) Later, U.N. officials were unable to confirm the source of the blaze, but as we circled above our destination, the sprawling and ever growing Garada (ph) camp, temporary home, according to the U.N., of at least 120,000 desperate, displaced people. We could see where the new arrivals were setting up on the dangerous edge of the camp.

We were following Jan Egeland, the New York-based U.N. undersecretary-general of humanitarian affairs and emergency relief, on a rare trip to the region to spotlight the suffering. He flew in by helicopter, because in the last few months it's become too dangerous for even the U.N. to drive here.

He went immediately to the new arrivals.

JAN EGELAND, U.N. UNDERSECRETARY-GENERAL OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS AND EMERGENCY RELIEF: They took everything? When -- when was this?

ROBERTSON: The women tell him they've been forced from their village, Yahana (ph), 15 miles away, 12 days before in an offensive by the Sudanese army and then by the Arab Janjaweed militia, the government's proxy force, according to U.N. officials.

They told the humanitarian chief in more than a week they've received no international aid food handouts. He told them aid would come, but couldn't say when.

EGELAND: At the moment, this is the epicenter of this earthquake of misery and brutality. Here people come here in, in the thousands nearly every day now. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

ROBERTSON: Away from the crowds gathering around Egeland, we spot a group of four women sitting alone, trying to find shade under a tree. They, too, are from Yahana (ph), a small town of about 13,000 people, and take turns telling me what happened.

Jada (ph) is holding her 3-year-old Ahmed. When the attack began, she says, her 5-year-old son, Salomon (ph), died, she says. On her left, cradling her 13-month-old son Abdullah, Sulakil (ph) tells me they walked for four days to get to the camp and have had no aid handouts yet.

Nora (ph), who intermittently tries to feed her 1-year-old son Nasr (ph), says they can't go home. Everything was destroyed. They have nothing left.

When asked how many died, Asha (ph) claims 400 to 500. Many of the old burned in their home, she says.

By now, we've drawn our own crowd, curious to know what we are doing. They complain about a lack of security in the camp. They say the night before two people were shot dead nearby, but it's not until I asked the four women where their husbands are that the scale of the tragedy sinks in.

(on camera) We chose these four women at random. All of them, their husbands are missing. And one of them, Nora (ph), people tell us her husband's dead.

(voice-over) As Egeland moves through the camp, I ask him why U.N. officials are overwhelmed.

EGELAND: We asked the world for $1.5 billion to provide for about 2 1/2 million people.

ROBERTSON: He sounds frustrated. Barely one-third of that request for money this year has been met, and the displaced people just keep coming, outpacing the U.N.'s plans for how much they need.

(on camera) In the last six months the U.N. says the population of this camp has more than doubled. In the last month alone, they say another 10,000 or so IPDs, interminably displaced people, like these children, have arrived in the camp.

But the problem, the U.N. says, is much bigger. Across the whole of Darfur, they say now almost four million people are affected by the war.

(voice-over) But Egeland's problem isn't just a lack of money. Attacks against aid workers are up, making it much harder, sometimes impossible to get relief supplies to camps like Garada (ph) and another 400,000 displaced people elsewhere.

And even inside the camps, despite African Union peacekeepers, the displaced people fear attack.

EGELAND: They ran last night just around in the area because they thought they would be re-attacked.

ROBERTSON (on camera): so even in the camps they're not safe?

EGELAND: They're not safe, either. That's the reality.

ROBERTSON: Just how unsafe is this area?

EGELAND: I think this one of the most unsafe areas around.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): He is hopeful the new peace deal signed two days ago between the rebels and the Sudanese government will change all that, but it's not counting on it just yet.

EGELAND: These people were driven out 10 days, 15 days ago.

ROBERTSON: And for most here even that cautious optimism seems beyond their grasp.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Garada (ph), Sudan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, a family returns home to the devastation. Their story when we go live to Florida, where thousands of people and acres -- thousands of people are out of their homes and thousands of acres continue to burn.

The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Mike Hayden was unanimously confirmed by the Senate last year for his current post. And I call on the Senate to confirm him promptly as the director of the Central Intelligence Agency. The work of the CIA has never been so more important to the security of the American people.

America faces determined enemies who struck our nation on September 11, 2001, and who intend to attack our country again. To stop them we must have the best possible intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, all sides agree the next chief of the CIA is a critical appointment at a critical time, but some fear the choice of Michael Hayden, a four-star Air Force general, blurs the line between the civilian and military communities. Here are two men who have spent plenty of time in both: former CIA director and retired admiral Stansfield Turner and CNN military analyst, retired General James "Spider" Marks.

Great to have you both.

ADMIRAL STANSFIELD TURNER, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Thank you.

GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Admiral Turner, let's -- let's start with you. Just taking a look at the list, you, in addition to five former military leaders, headed the CIA, some active, some retired. This is nothing new. Is this an issue that we've got a possible new head of the CIA that's active military?

TURNER: No, not at all. There's a law about this, passed in 1947, which provides that the head of our intelligence can be an active military officer, a retired military officer or a civilian. We've had both in the course of these years, and there's no reason that a military officer is not appropriate at this time.

PHILLIPS: So considering your military experience, your military training, when you were in that position, what type of advantage did you have or advantages?

TURNER: Well, anybody in the military deals with intelligence one way or another. Certainly people at the higher echelons, at least. And therefore, you've got some experience in evaluating intelligence and understanding the pluses and minuses, the uncertains that exist in intelligence. So you've got a little bit of a leg up, but that doesn't mean a total civilian can't come in and do a very good job also.

PHILLIPS: Just taking a look at the list of the former military leaders of the CIA, Spider, as you look at those names, anybody -- when we look at the various names, was there anyone that was a complete disaster that should not have happened? Or do you think, by looking at this list, they all did a pretty good job?

MARKS: Kyra, I think the answer to the question is that when you look at the list and you look at it in its totality, every one of those Americans did a magnificent job. And certainly, there were challenges as they had to step into the role and to provide guidance and intelligence, clarity to the president.

Look specifically at Bedell Smith, who was Eisenhower's chief of staff during the war, had been the ambassador in Moscow, was then the director of central intelligence. And clearly, our foreign policy and our intelligence requirements back during the early '50s were braced on the policy of containment, which was burgeoning and growing, and it was really the start of the Cold War. So he was a brilliant choice, because he had the trusted confidence of the president, and he certainly had the skills that were required at the time.

So you look at General Mike Hayden today, and you bring that forward. Mike has been a tremendous intelligence professional at all levels. He is steeped in human intelligence. He has experience as a defense attache.

So this is an individual who has spent his life in the application of intelligence, but also as Admiral Turner pointed out, as a professional military officer he's got a lot of experience across the board fusing all the different types of intelligence, understanding what is required in terms of decisions that are coming from those recommendations of intelligence.

And he's a great leader. I mean, when you're in uniform for that number of years, you run organizations. You understand personnel requirements. You can talk to your organization. You can get by and you can move them forward.

PHILLIPS: Admiral, former -- Marks is saying that the retired general, Walter Bedell Smith, who was head of the CIA back in the '50s, he felt was a very good leader.

You look at this list. Were there others that might have had controversy because of their military background? I know that there was some controversy with regard to you at times. You were quite the tough leader. Do you think it was because you were military?

TURNER: No, I don't think so. I think that was a matter of personality. I happen to be a take charge sort of person. Maybe that's because I was a military officer. But I think overall, the record of my other military cohorts who ran the intelligence community has been very good.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's take a listen to what John Negroponte, national intelligence director, had to say with regard to the importance of human intelligence. I want to get you both to respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN NEGROPONTE, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR: Mike will help grow the CIA's human intelligence capabilities, ensure that those capabilities are well integrated with other intelligence operations, and provide crucial leadership for all of the intelligence community's human operations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, Spider, Hayden's background, it's satellites, it's technological surveillance, not human intelligence. Is this going to be tough for him?

MARKS: Kyra, first of all, let me correct the record if I can. Certainly he spent six years at NSA. That is a technical intelligence organization. He also was in the defense attache business. He was in central Europe, Eastern former eastern bloc.

He also was the deputy chief of staff in Korea for all U.S. forces, which was not an intelligence position, but on a daily basis, he had to deal through the U.N. and through the U.S. channels with the North Koreans in Mujan (ph).

So if you're looking at someone who's got those adroit skills in order to try to penetrate a really hard target, Mike Hayden has those skills.

PHILLIPS: All right. Admiral Turner, let's go back to when you had to get some satellite pictures for President Carter, I believe it was. And you had one heck of a time trying to get those pictures, if I recall. I don't even know if you're going to talk about the exact war that you had to do that for.

But now let's fast forward and look at what Hayden has in front of him. Human intelligence. He's got to get members of the CIA infiltrated into these terrorist organizations on the ground so we don't have to worry about other 9/11 and other types of attacks.

Has much changed? Is it going to be tough on both fronts technologically and on the human intel front?

TURNER: Oh, absolutely, and particularly it's tough on the human intel front with respect to terrorists. Infiltrating a small, tightly-knit, highly dedicated terrorist organization is not something you can do overnight or that you can have a high probability of being able to do at all.

But you do have to bring together all of the clues you can get: a snippet that you get by intercepting a message; a photograph that shows that they're move something equipment from A to B. You've got to be able to bring that together so that you get the most value out of each piece of knowledge.

PHILLIPS: So, Admiral, are you going to confess what those satellite pictures were that you had to get for Carter? TURNER: No. Yes, they -- they were simply pictures of a small war in central Africa. And the problem was that there was very little to see, because these were just natives fighting out in the jungle.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the Pentagon and the CIA. John Negroponte says, hey, it's a strong relationship. We don't need to worry about that side of things. Spider, do you agree?

MARKS: I do. Mike Hayden, again, is a very independent guy. Clearly, is a good follower, and he's been a great deputy for Ambassador Negroponte. But he's been a great leader in his own right.

Clearly, the visual might cause concern because he's in uniform as he comes forward in charge of the Central Intelligence Agency. But, frankly, I think that is a red herring when you look and you really peel back the capabilities and the competencies he brings forward. I think this is an informed choice, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Gentlemen Spider Marks and Admiral Stansfield Turner. Gentlemen, thanks for your time.

MARKS: Thanks, Kyra.

TURNER: Surely.

PHILLIPS: Black one moment, fire engine red the next. That's how one Floridian describes the sky as brushfires approached her neighborhood. We're going to follow the smoke coming up on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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